Logically Sinn Fein are right

KELTICKNIGHTT

ei.sdraob wrote: »

as someone who owns a small indigenous business the thought of Gerry and SF running the show is truly terrifying

we probably be in a war with rest of the world

KIERAN1

KELTICKNIGHTT wrote: »

burning the bondholders wont fix it,do the maths,its like sf supporters other plan,the pension fund which wont work,maybe sf need too go back too school again

I don't think you understand this is necessary for the survival of the Irish economy in the future. You need to compute this fact in your head/ Ireland can't and will not be able to afford 5.8% on a 90 billion loan, the sums + what we can afford to pay, don't add up once you calculate it all down on paper. Why do you think/ FG and Labour are wishing and hoping to negotiate the loan deal in the first place. You've been been blinded friend, by the rhetoric and polished conversation to understand, what is right and wrong, and what is good for the country long term.

ei.sdraob

loldog wrote: »

You think debt slavery is logical? You think paying billions per year just on interest is logical? What we need to happen is to break up the cartel of international usury and replace our currency systems with something sane and not so evil.

.

Somone has been watching some neo communistic Zeitgeist :P

KELTICKNIGHTT

KIERAN1 wrote: »

I don't think you understand this is necessary for the survival of the Irish economy in the future. You need to compute this fact in your head/ Ireland can't and will not be able to afford 5.8% on a 90 billion loan, the sums + what we can afford to pay, don't add up once you calculate it all down on paper. Why do you think/ FG and Labour are wishing and hoping to negotiate the loan deal in the first place. You've been been blinded friend, by the rhetoric and polished conversation to understand, what is right and wrong, and what is good for the country long term.

do you think ireland can goo too markets and pay 97% interest,please,think
yes ireland is paying 5.8 but if you seen the news,theres changes comming regardless

annoyingbeast

i completely agree with you OP, i think i will be voting sinn fein this time around, they actually care about the citizens, not the money or the image.:)

jimaneejeebus

KELTICKNIGHTT wrote: »

sf cant think,why will never see goverment,

I don't understand that sentence

jimaneejeebus

namloc1980 wrote: »

So let's say SF are in Government and we tell the IMF to feck off with their money and default. How do SF propose to instantly close the budget deficit??

Hi Namloc.

We cut. We borrow. We take from the pension fund.
We do anything other than pay investors who have no right to receive money from us.
We will have to do this eventually anyway. Why not do it sooner instead of years more of procrastination
If we wait it only gets worse

Killer Pigeon

Sinn Féin are true and true National Socialist.

KIERAN1

phantom_lord wrote: »

Do you not realise that even if the banking problem disappeared tomorrow we still have a huge deficit to fund and deal with? And that SF's solution to this is to...I'm not actually sure what it is actually? I don't think they even know either. But that doesn't matter, they're just telling everyone it'll be fine and their supporters and swallowing it hook line and sinker.

Show me were Sinn Fein have ruled out borrowing in the future, in the situation of defaulting on the debt belonging to Irish banks?

I have heard them say default on the banking debt alright,as that debt is not owned by the Irish electorate! To me the problem in the economy clearly is we have been spenting too much and not enough taxes are coming in from revenue streams, to plug the gap of that spenting spree-so expenditure cuts and increasing taxes and creating Jobs will eventually plug that gaping hole in the budget.

Ireland does need to borrow to keep the lifestyle we have at the moment, but there is other options, countries like the United states(FED) and China (PRC) might be wiling to lend to us to restructure our economy at an interest rate we can manage.

KIERAN1

KELTICKNIGHTT wrote: »

do you think ireland can goo too markets and pay 97% interest,please,think
yes ireland is paying 5.8 but if you seen the news,theres changes comming regardless

What changes?

jimaneejeebus

phantom_lord wrote: »

And that SF's solution to this is to...I'm not actually sure what it is actually?

If you're not sure what their solution is....how can you come on here and diss it??????????????

Why are you so certain that Sinn Fein will mess our country up any more than it has been/will be by any other party?

phantom_lord

jimaneejeebus wrote: »

If you're not sure what their solution is

Gerry doesn't even know, how am I meant to? I've asked lots of SF supporters too and they don't know either? I presume they just don't have one.

jimaneejeebus wrote: »

Why are you so certain that Sinn Fein will mess our country up any more than it has been/will be by any other party?

Because it's very clear from their document on their economic plans.

jimaneejeebus

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

Sinn Féin are true and true National Socialist.

Whats wrong with being nationalist? Aren't you glad that our forefathers were?
What's wrong with socialism? Isn't capitalism the reason we're in this mess?

Anyways..bailing out bankers IS socialism.....??

KIERAN1

Economists have an estimation that Ireland this state is in the debt for 200 billion/ yes with a B.. all this is private bank debt.. so how does FG and Labour expect us to pay that?

jimaneejeebus

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

Sinn Féin are true and true National Socialist.

Whats wrong with being nationalist? Aren't you glad that our forefathers were?
What's wrong with socialism? Isn't capitalism the reason we're in this mess?

Anyways..bailing out bankers IS socialism.....?? that's what we've signed up to last time I checked?

AnnyHallsal

jimaneejeebus wrote: »

Whats wrong with being nationalist? Aren't you glad that our forefathers were?
What's wrong with socialism? Isn't capitalism the reason we're in this mess?

I smell a Godwin ..

Killer Pigeon

AnnyHallsal wrote: »

I smell a Godwin ..

Irland, Irland über alles,
Über alles in der Welt!

Aprilmay

kincsem wrote: »

I said on another thread Sinn Fein have magic beans, and when the money tree grows everything will be sorted.

I think they are getting it from the Northern Bank job-most of that money was never recovered there. I think a lot of young people forget or they are too young to remember (that or they are naive) SF and the IRA blew up a lot of people and shot dozens too,Gerry Adams went along to all the IRA funerals So why would you elect Gerry Adams or anyone else involved to a job in government.Thugs a lot of them.I don't care about thier policies I wouldn't give them my vote because of what they represent

Nodin

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

Sinn Féin are true and true National Socialist.

Is this kind of school yard taunt your idea of political discussion...? I suppose it is, as you typed it.

jimaneejeebus

AnnyHallsal wrote: »

I smell a Godwin ..

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

Irland, Irland über alles,
Über alles in der Welt!

I was thinking more along the lines of 'Faoi mhóid bheith saor'
whatever

maccored

Aprilmay wrote: »

I think they are getting it from the Northern Bank job-most of that money was never recovered there.

what is this bank robbery they talk of? I hear many mention it but I have yet to see any of these people provide any kind of research or court records to say such allegations are actually true. its amazing the spin people swallow.

I suppose paying 5-10 billion every year in interest for ever and ever (since the 64 odd billion will be 'recycled' and not repaid) is a brilliant idea in comparison to SFs realistic economic ideas. I dont get that theory.

Aprilmay

maccored wrote: »

what is this bank robbery they talk of? I hear many mention it but I have yet to see any of these people provide any kind of research or court records to say such allegations are actually true. its amazing the spin people swallow.

I suppose paying 5-10 billion every year in interest for ever and ever (since the 64 odd billion will be 'recycled' and not repaid) is a brilliant idea in comparison to SFs realistic economic ideas. I dont get that theory.

I suppose the IRA/SF murdering people including Jean McConvile a mother of 10 shot in the head by the IRA and buried on a beach for years are fairy stories too. And Gerry Adams carrying IRA members coffins were superimposed by those in power -Please pull the other one it has bells

maccored

Aprilmay wrote: »

I suppose the IRA/SF murdering people including Jean McConvile a mother of 10 shoot are fairy stories too. And Gerry Adams carrying IRA members coffins were superimposed by those in power -Please pull the other one it has bells

so rather than answer the question you start talking about jean mcconville?

Get back to the point - show me the proof that, even after long investigations by the combined security forces, that the IRA or SF were ever involved in the northern bank robbery. Otherwise admit its hearsay.

namloc1980

jimaneejeebus wrote: »

Hi Namloc.

We cut. We borrow. We take from the pension fund.

But SF are saying that they'll reverse the cuts made by FF?????!!! So where are they going to cut?

You get a once off of €4.9bn from the pension fund....what then?

We can't borrow because no one will lend to us if we default as SF are advocating.

Can you please explain what SF are going to cut if they intend reversing cuts already made? Can you please explain what happens after the €4.9bn is spent from the pension fund? Can you please explain who will lend us money if we default on our existing debts?

Aprilmay

maccored wrote: »

so rather than answer the question you start talking about jean mcconville?

Get back to the point - show me the proof that, even after long investigations by the combined security forces, that the IRA or SF were ever involved in the northern bank robbery. Otherwise admit its hearsay.

Listen I have already stated I wouldn't vote for SF if they were the only choice on the ballot paper and regardless of the cops catching them or not for that bank job or all the other stuff that they were involved in.You can't say Gerry Adams was never a member of the IRA or that he was never involved with them in some way. So I will say it again and I'm not alone in reminding all our young people think before you give someone a big pension that has blood on thier hands.
Gerry can't even answer where they are getting the money from
SF/IRA = murderers and by the way you guys always hate the way people bring up the innocent like Jean Mcconville because some of us don't think they should be forgetton about.

Nodin

Aprilmay wrote: »

Listen I have already stated I wouldn't vote for SF if they were the only choice on the ballot paper and regardless of the cops catching them or not for that bank job or all the other stuff that they were involved in..

So essentially you've no interest in facts whatsoever..?

jimaneejeebus

namloc1980 wrote: »

But SF are saying that they'll reverse the cuts made by FF?????!!! So where are they going to cut?

Whilst Sinn Fein may not be realistic in their plans- they are at least realistic in the fact that we will have to default at some stage. If you believe that defaulting is in the nations best interest, then Sinn Fein are the only option.
It's not ideal granted. But it's better than do nothing for 10 years...default and then find ourselves in the exact same situation

namloc1980 wrote: »

You get a once off of €4.9bn from the pension fund....what then?

The pension fund has a LOT more than €4.9 billion. It buys time for recovery and for the markets to settle.

namloc1980 wrote: »

We can't borrow because no one will lend to us if we default as SF are advocating.

Iceland, Argentina, Russia, Pakistan all did? We will have to do the exact same..be it one year down the line [as sinn fein are advocating] or 15 years down the line. It has to happen sometime. Either way- we're screwed- but the sooner it happens, the better off we'll be.

namloc1980

jimaneejeebus wrote: »

Iceland, Argentina, Russia, Pakistan all did? We will have to do the exact same..be it one year down the line [as sinn fein are advocating] or 15 years down the line. It has to happen sometime. Either way- we're screwed- but the sooner it happens, the better off we'll be.

Irish 10 year bonds are currently at over 9%! Icelandic 10 year bonds are currently trading at approx 7%. Argentine bonds maturing in 7 years are currently at 8.6%. Russia was out of the market for 12 years, but had billions of dollars of gas and oil to fund it and it is also one of the biggest economies in the world. I couldn't find a price for Pakistani bonds but I think it's safe to assume it's more than the 5.8% Ireland is getting from the IMF. So while Ireland may eventually get back into the markets is it better to take the 5.8% on offer now or pay 9%+ on the market?????

KELTICKNIGHTT

jimaneejeebus wrote: »

I don't understand that sentence

thats ok,i dont understand sf either

KELTICKNIGHTT

KIERAN1 wrote: »

What changes?

watch the news over next couple of weeks