Logically Sinn Fein are right

KELTICKNIGHTT

KIERAN1 wrote: »

Show me were Sinn Fein have ruled out borrowing in the future, in the situation of defaulting on the debt belonging to Irish banks?

I have heard them say default on the banking debt alright,as that debt is not owned by the Irish electorate! To me the problem in the economy clearly is we have been spenting too much and not enough taxes are coming in from revenue streams, to plug the gap of that spenting spree-so expenditure cuts and increasing taxes and creating Jobs will eventually plug that gaping hole in the budget.

Ireland does need to borrow to keep the lifestyle we have at the moment, but there is other options, countries like the United states(FED) and China (PRC) might be wiling to lend to us to restructure our economy at an interest rate we can manage.

china and usa aint going too help,they have there own things too deal with,sf sf suppoerters think burn bondholder,so bye too imf and eu and go across too usa,says it all there,sf no clue

KELTICKNIGHTT

jimaneejeebus wrote: »

Whilst Sinn Fein may not be realistic in their plans- they are at least realistic in the fact that we will have to default at some stage. If you believe that defaulting is in the nations best interest, then Sinn Fein are the only option.
It's not ideal granted. But it's better than do nothing for 10 years...default and then find ourselves in the exact same situation


The pension fund has a LOT more than €4.9 billion. It buys time for recovery and for the markets to settle.



Iceland, Argentina, Russia, Pakistan all did? We will have to do the exact same..be it one year down the line [as sinn fein are advocating] or 15 years down the line. It has to happen sometime. Either way- we're screwed- but the sooner it happens, the better off we'll be.

pension fund doesnt have more than 4.6 billion,it was confirmed already too only this,and if used by sf,where pensioers too get the pension funds ????

sf is not only party too suggest burning private bondholders,

Ireland can afford too default on all it owes too Europe and imf and markets,i never heard such bull ,ireland would be more than ruined,thank god sf and likes will never see government,be nothing left here

maccored

Aprilmay wrote: »

Listen I have already stated I wouldn't vote for SF if they were the only choice on the ballot paper and regardless of the cops catching them or not for that bank job or all the other stuff that they were involved in.You can't say Gerry Adams was never a member of the IRA or that he was never involved with them in some way. So I will say it again and I'm not alone in reminding all our young people think before you give someone a big pension that has blood on thier hands.
Gerry can't even answer where they are getting the money from
SF/IRA = murderers and by the way you guys always hate the way people bring up the innocent like Jean Mcconville because some of us don't think they should be forgetton about.

So to clear this one up then, please refrain from making statements about sinn fein and the northern bank robbery considering we all know that after extensive investigation, there isn't a shred of evidence to back up such a silly claim. It doesnt really matter to me how many other, non Northern Bank robbery sidetracks you bring up, just to avoid answering the question.

Can anyone tell me how we plan to make the interest repayments every year considering it could be a third of what the country brings in? Thats what a lot of people think is a good idea, rather than just manning up to the fact we cant pay whats been agreed, and I just think its the ultimate in short sightedness. Its default on everything waiting to happen, rather than defaulting on those who gambled with the bank guarantee.

maccored

KELTICKNIGHTT wrote: »

pension fund doesnt have more than 4.6 billion,it was confirmed already too only this,and if used by sf,where pensioers too get the pension funds ????

sf is not only party too suggest burning private bondholders,

Ireland can afford too default on all it owes too Europe and imf and markets,i never heard such bull ,ireland would be more than ruined,thank god sf and likes will never see government,be nothing left here

SF have never talked of spending all the pension fund money , right now, all at the one time. The want to invest 2 billion of the 4.6 (or whatever) billion in job creation over a period of time. This investment would hopefully then bring in more money over that same period of time. This was mentioned on the leaders debate so Im amazed you missed that.

namloc1980

maccored wrote: »

So to clear this one up then, please refrain from making statements about sinn fein and the northern bank robbery considering we all know that after extensive investigation, there isn't a shred of evidence to back up such a silly claim. It doesnt really matter to me how many other, non Northern Bank robbery sidetracks you bring up, just to avoid answering the question.

Can anyone tell me how we plan to make the interest repayments every year considering it could be a third of what the country brings in? Thats what a lot of people think is a good idea, rather than just manning up to the fact we cant pay whats been agreed, and I just think its the ultimate in short sightedness. Its default on everything waiting to happen, rather than defaulting on those who gambled with the bank guarantee.

Whether we like it or not the Bank Guarantee is a reality and Banks' bad debts have become de facto sovereign debt. We can try and work with the 5.8% on offer from the IMF or as you advocate, burn the debt holders and chance our arms on the markets. Irish bonds are trading at over 9% today. 5.8% versus 9%.....mmmmm?!

namloc1980

maccored wrote: »

SF have never talked of spending all the pension fund money , right now, all at the one time. The want to invest 2 billion of the 4.6 (or whatever) billion in job creation over a period of time. This investment would hopefully then bring in more money over that same period of time. This was mentioned on the leaders debate so Im amazed you missed that.

What do you put €2bn into that can create jobs out of thin air?

KELTICKNIGHTT

maccored wrote: »

So to clear this one up then, please refrain from making statements about sinn fein and the northern bank robbery considering we all know that after extensive investigation, there isn't a shred of evidence to back up such a silly claim. It doesnt really matter to me how many other, non Northern Bank robbery sidetracks you bring up, just to avoid answering the question.

Can anyone tell me how we plan to make the interest repayments every year considering it could be a third of what the country brings in? Thats what a lot of people think is a good idea, rather than just manning up to the fact we cant pay whats been agreed, and I just think its the ultimate in short sightedness. Its default on everything waiting to happen, rather than defaulting on those who gambled with the bank guarantee.

where are sf getting the 16 billion for services,not enough in pension fund 4.6 billion there and where you get the 50 billion,remember now sf will burn bondholder and tell europe and imf get lost ,and markets wont deal with you,where you get the funds 16 billion and 50 billion ??

maccored

First up, SFs proposal is that we spend the 16 months or whatever it is grace, in working out what bonderholders cynically invested in the guarantee, rather than for any interest in the countrys health. Then I assume, that once that amount of money has been knocked off the bill, THEN we look at how much we owe and where we need to find it. I would assume investors are like people, and would rather invest in a country that is realistic than one living in dream land. We're presently in dreamland if we think we can pay the bill.

Secondly, who says we cant have another look at the guarantee? If it means the survival of the country, then we have to.

maccored

namloc1980 wrote: »

What do you put €2bn into that can create jobs out of thin air?

Im sure if you ask your local SF candidate, he or she could tell you their plans. Thats just common sense.

maccored

KELTICKNIGHTT wrote: »

where are sf getting the 16 billion for services,not enough in pension fund 4.6 billion there and where you get the 50 billion,remember now sf will burn bondholder and tell europe and imf get lost ,and markets wont deal with you,where you get the funds 16 billion and 50 billion ??

Hang on - right now, how are we going to pay the interest bill? You're asking questions which - again - you should be asking your local SF candidate about what ifs. Im asking about a real bill we have to start paying every year, and its the real elephant in the corner since no-ones addressing it.

namloc1980

maccored wrote: »

Im sure if you ask your local SF candidate, he or she could tell you their plans. Thats just common sense.

You're advocating their plan but you don't know what they intend doing with the money?? Anyway I haven't seen sight nor sound of any SF campaigners in my area.

maccored

namloc1980 wrote: »

You're advocating their plan but you don't know what they intend doing with the money?? Anyway I haven't seen sight nor sound of any SF campaigners in my area.

I have a fair idea of SFs outlook, but in reality Ive no intention of trying to educate strangers on the web about it. If you really want to know, just go to the people putting themselves up for election and ask them. its usually the best way to get answers.

KELTICKNIGHTT

maccored wrote: »

Hang on - right now, how are we going to pay the interest bill? You're asking questions which - again - you should be asking your local SF candidate about what ifs. Im asking about a real bill we have to start paying every year, and its the real elephant in the corner since no-ones addressing it.

let see,markets ar over 9% and current deal with imf/eu is 5.8%,which is lower and even more,said too maybe get lower
,im asking you as any sf person we talked too cant answer question,all they say is pension ,pension,which has only 4.6 billion in it ,country need 16 billion for frontline services like hospital,garda etc,where ?

namloc1980

maccored wrote: »

I have a fair idea of SFs outlook, but in reality Ive no intention of trying to educate strangers on the web about it. If you really want to know, just go to the people putting themselves up for election and ask them. its usually the best way to get answers.

Well it so happens that I have read the SF manifesto and they plan a once off spending spree on building schools, hospitals etc with the remains of the pension fund. They intend creating temporary, manual labour jobs with this building splurge with no plan once these projects are complete other than the builders going back on the dole and the reserve fund being empty.

KELTICKNIGHTT

maccored wrote: »

I have a fair idea of SFs outlook, but in reality Ive no intention of trying to educate strangers on the web about it. If you really want to know, just go to the people putting themselves up for election and ask them. its usually the best way to get answers.

you and sf dont know as any sf person so far cant first say where the get the money,and give more detals and figure on how there policy s
but its clear you dont know
neither does any sf person asked so far,even more funny gerry adams doesnt even know when asked what is vat rate in ireland,he replied he didnt know

maccored

KELTICKNIGHTT wrote: »

let see,markets ar over 9% and current deal with imf/eu is 5.8%,which is lower and even more,said too maybe get lower
,im asking you as any sf person we talked too cant answer question,all they say is pension ,pension,which has only 4.6 billion in it ,country need 16 billion for frontline services like hospital,garda etc,where ?

I think it was on the frontline last week, where there was an economist on with a load of party reps. They talked of between 5 and 10 billion a year interest as part of the deal, and the economist said the load get 'recycled' and never paid - which means we need to spend up to 30% of the countrys income every year, just to pay the interest.

Are you saying that isnt the case? If it is the case, please tell me how we can do that without defaulting? As I say, this is reality and not questions about what might happen.

KELTICKNIGHTT

maccored wrote: »

I think it was on the frontline last week, where there was an economist on with a load of party reps. They talked of between 5 and 10 billion a year interest as part of the deal, and the economist said the load get 'recycled' and never paid - which means we need to spend up to 30% of the countrys income every year, just to pay the interest.

Are you saying that isnt the case? If it is the case, please tell me how we can do that without defaulting? As I say, this is reality and not questions about what might happen.

is 5.8 % less than markets are offering at over 9%,yes or no

maccored

KELTICKNIGHTT wrote: »

you and sf dont know as any sf person so far cant first say where the get the money,and give more detals and figure on how there policy s
but its clear you dont know
neither does any sf person asked so far,even more funny gerry adams doesnt even know when asked what is vat rate in ireland,he replied he didnt know

I assume for a start the whole thing is a bit complex. SF have explained their plans as well as any other party have explained their economic plans, so I assuming you really are talking about all partys. Where is any of them getting money to do anything? They explain how by saying they will 'streamline' things? What does that mean anyway?

maccored

KELTICKNIGHTT wrote: »

is 5.8 % less than markets are offering at over 9%,yes or no

Considering there are varying degrees of percentages used in that calculation, I reckon you'll be hardpressed to find anyone to give you a yes or no answer to that. Pity life really isnt that simple.

jimaneejeebus

namloc1980 wrote: »

Irish 10 year bonds are currently at over 9%! Icelandic 10 year bonds are currently trading at approx 7%. Argentine bonds maturing in 7 years are currently at 8.6%. Russia was out of the market for 12 years, but had billions of dollars of gas and oil to fund it and it is also one of the biggest economies in the world. I couldn't find a price for Pakistani bonds but I think it's safe to assume it's more than the 5.8% Ireland is getting from the IMF. So while Ireland may eventually get back into the markets is it better to take the 5.8% on offer now or pay 9%+ on the market?????

Hi Namloc....Would you rather be paying off €200,000,000,000 @5.8%
OR 60,000,000,000 @10%?
Do the math!

KELTICKNIGHTT wrote: »

thats ok,i dont understand sf either

Not even intelligent! you'll note in my OP- I merely stated that Sinn Fein were from a logical standpoint....right.
But I guess you prefer paying investors?

KELTICKNIGHTT wrote: »

pension fund doesnt have more than 4.6 billion,it was confirmed already too only this,and if used by sf,where pensioers too get the pension funds ????

Wrong!
http://www.irishexaminer.com/home/pension-reserve-funds-to-be-spent-on-banks-137796.html
It seems like the mainstream parties also want to dip into the pension fund. When they do it it's ok is it?

KELTICKNIGHTT

maccored wrote: »

I assume for a start the whole thing is a bit complex. SF have explained their plans as well as any other party have explained their economic plans, so I assuming you really are talking about all partys. Where is any of them getting money to do anything? They explain how by saying they will 'streamline' things? What does that mean anyway?

sf didnt,they couldnt even give figures,gerry adams was asked where he get the 16 billion and asked about 50 billion,gerry gave no answer only too say some republican bull that has been said before,so sf have no idea,
maybe check you details again as was more than 60 billion at 9%

KELTICKNIGHTT

jimaneejeebus wrote: »

Hi Namloc....Would you rather be paying off €200,000,000,000 @5.8%
OR 60,000,000,000 @10%?
Do the math!


Not even intelligent! you'll note in my OP- I merely stated that Sinn Fein were from a logical standpoint....right.
But I guess you prefer paying investors?



Wrong!
http://www.irishexaminer.com/home/pension-reserve-funds-to-be-spent-on-banks-137796.html
It seems like the mainstream parties also want to dip into the pension fund. When they do it it's ok is it?

maybe you sgould check with finance department info,i think you find it does stand at 4.6 billion
and where you get reminder of the 16 billion and 50 billion ?

maccored

KELTICKNIGHTT wrote: »

sf didnt,they couldnt even give figures,gerry adams was asked where he get the 16 billion and asked about 50 billion,gerry gave no answer only too say some republican bull that has been said before,so sf have no idea,

Everyone to their own, but you should really do more than watch TV debates to understand what SF are offering.

namloc1980

jimaneejeebus wrote: »

Hi Namloc....Would you rather be paying off €200,000,000,000 @5.8%
OR 60,000,000,000 @10%?
Do the math!


Not even intelligent! you'll note in my OP- I merely stated that Sinn Fein were from a logical standpoint....right.
But I guess you prefer paying investors?



Wrong!
http://www.irishexaminer.com/home/pension-reserve-funds-to-be-spent-on-banks-137796.html
It seems like the mainstream parties also want to dip into the pension fund. When they do it it's ok is it?

That article is from November 2010. Try something more recent.

The bailout is €85bn not €200bn. Where are you pulling your figures from?

jimaneejeebus

KELTICKNIGHTT wrote: »

is 5.8 % less than markets are offering at over 9%,yes or no

would you rather 200billion @5.8%?
Or 60 billion@10%?

namloc1980

jimaneejeebus wrote: »

would you rather 200billion @5.8%?
Or 60 billion@10%?

Where are you pulling these figures from?

KELTICKNIGHTT

jimaneejeebus wrote: »

would you rather 200billion @5.8%?
Or 60 billion@10%?

it wasnt 60 billion at 9%.check again
and not 200 billion ,check again

maccored

KELTICKNIGHTT wrote: »

sf didnt,they couldnt even give figures,gerry adams was asked where he get the 16 billion and asked about 50 billion,gerry gave no answer only too say some republican bull that has been said before,so sf have no idea,
maybe check you details again as was more than 60 billion at 9%

SF havent outlined their economic policy? I think you are incorrect on that one.

KELTICKNIGHTT

namloc1980 wrote: »

Where are you pulling these figures from?

think making them up like the sf manifesto

KELTICKNIGHTT

maccored wrote: »

SF havent outlined their economic policy? I think you are incorrect on that one.

whats the figures,doesnt cover 16 billion in there policy ,not even half it
check it