Is there complete separation of church and state in rep of Ireland ?

I remember there was a discussion here a while back about RTE running the Angelus before the news and the majority of people seemed to be of the opinion that it was of little importance or even a real issue. That's hardly an indicator of people being ready for the complete separation between State and Church let alone being bothered enough to do anything about bringing it about.

Ghost Estate wrote: »

it doesn't bother me a bit that there isn't.

but its funny to see the atheist crowd getting so worked up over it.

• 98% of Irish primary schools are under religious patronage. There should be an adequate choice in the range of primary and post-primary schools available in keeping with the increased diversity and changing nature of Irish society. The statutory option of withdrawing children from religious instruction in classes is difficult to exercise in practice, particularly in rural areas and where the curriculum is integrated as is the case in the primary schools.

• Legislative and policy changes are required to ensure that people of non-faith and from religious minorities are not deterred from training as teachers or taking up employment as teachers.

http://www.ihrc.ie/newsevents/press/2010/12/10/ihrc-says-ireland-scores-poorly-on-its-record-to-e/

The United Nations Committee on the Elimination of Racism and Discrimination (CERD) will be monitoring Ireland’s record on this issue at meetings from 14 February to 11 March.

The CERD sees a link between racial and religious discrimination. In its last report on Ireland, in 2005, the CERD asked Ireland to establish more nonreligious schools and to ensure that pupils are not discriminated against because of their religion or lack of religion.

http://www.atheist.ie/2011/01/un-to-monitor-racial-and-religious-discrimination-in-irish-schools/

KeithAFC wrote: »

Some people would put Catholic for political reasons if you know what i mean.

Sure we're all catholic in some way...

As Dara O'Briain says "I'm atheist but still Catholic"

Ghost Estate wrote: »

It never bothered me when I was going to school and that was in the good old days. Religious discrimination? never an issue. There was one muslim fella in my school and the sun shone out of his arse.

even if i had kids going to school I wouldn't give 2 shits. tis not as big of a deal as you seem to think. but then again i'm not in the 'z0mg, he`s being brainwashed! quick! phone Dawkins!' camp

I'm usually against the militant atheism & Dawkins worship which you're talking about. The entanglement of schools and religion in Ireland is beyond reasonable though. My own relion teacher in post-primary school was also a Maths teacher. I remember people asking about atheism and agnosticism and being asked to leave class over it, (though admittedly they could have just being clowning around).

If one of those kids were raising legitimate questions regarding arithmetic or anything else, they certainly wouldn't have been asked to leave the class.

http://www.educatetogether.ie/election-2011/

MungoMan wrote: »

It's obvious that the established churches in Ireland (Catholic, Church of Ireland etc etc) do not have much (if any) influence on the running of the state.

Are there any areas where the church still has influence ? Can anyone give any examples ? Are there any state institutions where the church has some influence ?

Is it true to say that there is complete separation between church and state in Ireland ?
In France, you often hear about "agressive secularism" where the state and church are very separate, has this happened in Ireland ?

Is there anything in the constitution which refers to "God" or "Budda" or "Allah" or "Jesus" "sun gods" or any established church ?

Do your own f***in' assignment!

Separation of church and state is largely a myth in most countries that profess to have it.

Sure, nominally secular governments may not pray each morning before starting business for the day, their schools may not work under the ethos of a single religion or their public areas may have no symbols of religion.

But governments are made up of people and people have their beliefs, so each day their actions are guided by their beliefs and in that way society will always be affected by the religion/beliefs of their people. Here in Irelandwe have an Irish solution to an Irish problem, based on historical need and societal beliefs.

From my experience (and my children's) although only one religion is actively taught, no child is forced to study that religion. From a practical standpoint it is not possible to teach all religions, so the primary religion in the country is taught and others are treated with respect.

In my oldest child's class, there were 4 different religions represented and the teacher took the time to let each of the children explain their religion to the class and the class came to the conclusion that all the religions were the same 'except for the strange names' and that all the Gods l "made you be good" and "were mad if you were bad" I love the simplicity of children,we could learn from it.

I believe and stand to be corrected, that while the chaplaincy service of most of our hospitals are catholic or protestant as are the majority of patients, that most if not all of the hospital will arrange for visits from a cleric of choice for patients of different religions/beliefs on request.

Good health and wealth tend to see populations move away from spirituality, but I am always reminded of the sawing "There are no Atheists in Foxholes" perhaps that is why when the census comes around people answer that they are Roman Catholic/Christian, it takes more courage to actively denounce something that you really believe when the chips are down, than it does to passively dissent from aspects of your religion that you do not agree with.

We should not easily discard the role that the church has played in educating and healing the people of Ireland from ancient times, yes I agree, in recent times flogging would be more appropriate for some, but we cannot lightly discard our history and part of our culture. Are we not proud that Ireland was a beacon of knowledge in the dark ages, who has not looked on the book of Kells with awe? So now that our own religious are in their dark age should we abandon them? While I like many people have a problem with the church-state behavior in the past, and I do hope that it is in the past, I will not discard all the good men an women of the church with those that did evil and those that hid and condoned the behavior.

Let us move onwards and upwards, not separate, but together.:)

Sometimes I wish that I had an unquestioning faith either in religion or as an atheistic or as an agnostic, as some seem to do, but I do not, I struggle like most others, guided by my life experiences, parental guidance, society values and my own internal moral/beliefs....

MungoMan wrote: »

It's obvious that the established churches in Ireland (Catholic, Church of Ireland etc etc) do not have much (if any) influence on the running of the state.

Are there any areas where the church still has influence ? Can anyone give any examples ? Are there any state institutions where the church has some influence ?

Is it true to say that there is complete separation between church and state in Ireland ?
In France, you often hear about "agressive secularism" where the state and church are very separate, has this happened in Ireland ?

Is there anything in the constitution which refers to "God" or "Budda" or "Allah" or "Jesus" "sun gods" or any established church ?

It could be worse; we could have a law saying the President of Ireland had to be Protestant Catholic and that a non-Protestant Catholic was forbidden from holding the highest civic office in society.

I wonder how many people who look down their noses at the supposed "sectarianism" of Irish state-church relationships then turn round and admire a nearby state which has this sort of ban in 2011?

JupiterKid wrote: »

Indeed, I was in hospital just a month ago for a minor procedure and I was asked what religion I was. .

That is so that if you die, you don't get given the wrong services.

That isn't the imposition of religion, that is respect, and would hopefully exist in a secular society as well.

strobe wrote: »

Sinn Fein and Labour seem to be the most secularly leaning parties.

Guess I know who I'm voting for so.