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Is there complete separation of church and state in rep of Ireland ?

13567

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  • #62
    The_Minister
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,255 ✭✭✭✭The_Minister


    Sisko wrote: »
    Guess I know who I'm voting for so.

    There are more important issues than a blasphemy law that doesn't do anything and a bit of watered-down Catholicism being taught to children.


    Like economics, tax-levels and the like.


  • #63
    MungoMan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 353 ✭✭MungoMan


    The_Minister wrote: »
    There are more important issues than a blasphemy law that doesn't do anything and a bit of watered-down Catholicism being taught to children.


    Like economics, tax-levels and the like.

    Of course there are much more important issues.

    That doesn't mean we shouldn't deal with the less important issues too, maybe the TD's might have to meet more often.

    The Catholicism taught in schools is not that watered down..(communion, confession, confirmation, prayers...

    Its not watered down if you happen to be an athiest or for someone who believes in a sun god for example.


  • #64
    RichieC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭RichieC


    Cybertron85 wrote: »
    He supports the launch of this book, for me this is akin to supporting the intelligent design theories even though he has shrewdly avoided saying it so openly.

    But it's off topic I suppose, the answer to the OP's question is a clear NO.

    BS, he's friends with John.


  • #65
    partyatmygaff
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,992 ✭✭✭✭partyatmygaff


    MungoMan wrote: »
    The Catholicism taught in schools is not that watered down.....especially for an aethiest or for someone who believes in a sun god for example.

    Atheists and Pagans don't have to sit in during Religion classes during school. It's hardly that big of an issue as people here on boards make it out to be. Learning biblical parables don't scar people for life.


  • #66
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Dionysus wrote: »
    It could be worse; we could have a law saying the President of Ireland had to be Protestant Catholic and that a non-Protestant Catholic was forbidden from holding the highest civic office in society.

    I wonder how many people who look down their noses at the supposed "sectarianism" of Irish state-church relationships then turn round and admire a nearby state which has this sort of ban in 2011?

    the Netherlands, Spain, Norway or the UK?


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  • #67
    Morag
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,427 ✭✭✭Morag


    partyatmygaff wrote: »
    Atheists and Pagans don't have to sit in during Religion classes during school. It's hardly that big of an issue as people here on boards make it out to be. Learning biblical parables don't scar people for life.

    Yes they do as there is in the over whelming majority of schools no one to supervise them.


  • #68
    pajor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,576 ✭✭✭pajor


    "Short answer: 'Yes' with an 'If,' long answer: 'No' -- with a But."


  • #69
    partyatmygaff
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,992 ✭✭✭✭partyatmygaff


    Sharrow wrote: »
    Yes they do as there is in the over whelming majority of schools no one to supervise them.
    I've never heard of that happening. They don't get sent out of the room, they're just allowed to do whatever you want for the time such as read a book or draw a picture.


  • #70
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,018 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    partyatmygaff wrote: »
    Learning biblical parables don't scar people for life.

    No but it deprives them of a proper education as it wastes time that could be used for ...you know........learning them to reed and rite and stuff.
    MungoMan wrote: »
    Could the schools be forced to be secular ? Maybe a compulsary purchase order of the schools from the religious authorities ? OK, that's silly, the state couldn't afford that !
    In the current property market what is the going rate for an unfunded school with no prospect of planning permission for redevelopment ?


  • #71
    partyatmygaff
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,992 ✭✭✭✭partyatmygaff


    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    No but it deprives them of a proper education as it wastes time that could be used for ...you know........learning them to reed and rite and stuff.
    Back when I was in primary school we spent time being read Aesop's fables and other stories with a moral lesson. Do you think that was a waste of time as well?


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  • #72
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,018 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    partyatmygaff wrote: »
    Back when I was in primary school we spent time being read Aesop's fables and other stories with a moral lesson. Do you think that was a waste of time as well?

    Depends on what class you were in

    Now how is this relevant ?


  • #73
    MungoMan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 353 ✭✭MungoMan


    partyatmygaff wrote: »
    I've never heard of that happening. They don't get sent out of the room, they're just allowed to do whatever you want for the time such as read a book or draw a picture.

    If my memory serves me well, the child in school who is a bit different (i.e. an athiest in a class of Christians) will get picked on in the playground for being different.
    It's not nice to be told to go and read a book or draw a picture, while the rest of the class are discussing about a man walking on water for example, or a man at a wedding taking water, and turning it into good wine (without any grapes, or fermentation)


  • #74
    partyatmygaff
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,992 ✭✭✭✭partyatmygaff


    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    Depends on what class you were in

    Now how is this relevant ?
    I was talking about biblical parables as an example. In essence they serve the exact same purpose as Aesop's fables.

    MungoMan wrote: »
    If my memory serves me well, the child in school who is a bit different (i.e. an athiest in a class of Christians) will get picked on in the playground for being different.
    I went to primary school from '98 - '06. We had three people in our class who were not Catholics and not one of us were picked on for being different. This was in a Catholic school of all places.
    It's not nice to be told to go and read a book or draw a picture,
    The ones who were exempted from religion classes were envied by the rest of the class for being allowed to do as they wished.


  • #75
    My name is URL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,275 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    partyatmygaff wrote: »
    Back when I was in primary school we spent time being read Aesop's fables and other stories with a moral lesson. Do you think that was a waste of time as well?

    So.. call it philosophy or theistic study. If it isn't intended to be religious then it shouldn't be rooted in religion.

    There was no apparent effort to distance fixed religious ideals and simple philosophy when I was in primary school. Everyone was expected to study about crap before making their communion and confirmation. I don't know any parent who withdrew their kids from such things either.. but as has being mentioned, it's simply easier not to do so in most cases.


  • #76
    Overheal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,725 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Ghost Estate wrote: »
    it doesn't bother me a bit that there isn't.

    but its funny to see the atheist crowd getting so worked up over it.
    You might feel differently if the separation wasn't there between the State and Sharia Law, not the State and the Catholic Church.


  • #77
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,018 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    partyatmygaff wrote: »
    I was talking about biblical parables as an example. In essence they serve the exact same purpose as Aesop's fables.

    If I had the time and inclination I could cite you lots of biblical passages which do the exact opposite.


  • #78
    partyatmygaff
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,992 ✭✭✭✭partyatmygaff


    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    If I had the time and inclination I could cite you lots of biblical passages which do the exact opposite.

    The typical response. You discreetly attempt to steer the conversation from parables to something completely different in an attempt to appeal to AH popular opinion.

    When talking of biblical parables these are the stories told by Jesus in the New Testament to convey his moral message. Considering that children are also told the likes of Aesop's fables I do not see why people feel so negatively towards it.


  • #79
    RichieC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭RichieC


    Ghost Estate wrote: »
    it doesn't bother me a bit that there isn't.

    but its funny to see the atheist crowd getting so worked up over it.

    GET THE HELL OUT OF MY COUNTRY! (serious allcaps are serious)


  • #80
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,018 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    partyatmygaff wrote: »
    When talking of biblical parables these are the stories told by Jesus in the New Testament to convey his moral message. Considering that children are also told the likes of Aesop's fables I do not see why people feel so negatively towards it.

    So now weve shifted from Biblical passages in general to the stories told by Jesus in the New Testament specifically ?

    Those who tell the stories told by Jesus in the New Testament to convey his moral message. generally tend to have an agenda which goes beyond selling the mere moral message as conveyed by Jesus in the New testament.

    Aesop on the other hand doesnt have an army of followers claiming that he is the Son of God.


  • #81
    partyatmygaff
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,992 ✭✭✭✭partyatmygaff


    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    Those who tell the stories told by Jesus in the New Testament to convey his moral message. generally tend to have an agenda which goes beyond selling the mere moral message as conveyed by Jesus in the New testament
    Strange that. Considering that non-Catholics usually sit out of class I don't see what's the point in them using the telling of parables as a method to "forward their agenda". If they truly wanted to preach they'd force all of the children to sit in.
    Aesop on the other hand doesnt have an army of followers claiming that he is the Son of God.
    So what? Does that make the parables any less valid?


    Interesting to note is your casual exclusion of the first line of the post that you quoted.


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  • #82
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,018 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    partyatmygaff wrote: »
    Interesting to note is your casual exclusion of the first line of the post that you quoted.

    I tend to edit quotes in order to avoid being guilty of that irritating habit among many posters on boards of quoting an entire post in order to reply to one specific point.

    That and the fact that pathetic personal attacks are often best ignored.


  • #83
    Sisko
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,910 ✭✭✭Sisko


    religion should be banned in schools and kept to the churches. imo religion should be banned from being forced on kids till they're 18. Its practically brainwashing atm.


  • #84
    partyatmygaff
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,992 ✭✭✭✭partyatmygaff


    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    I tend to edit quotes in order to avoid being guilty of that irritating habit among many posters on boards of quoting an entire post in order to reply to one specific point.
    So you chose to ignore the first point I take it?
    That and the fact that pathetic personal attacks are often best ignored.
    They are indeed best ignored. Thank you for that irrelevant tidbit of information.


  • #85
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,018 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    partyatmygaff wrote: »
    So you chose to ignore the first point I take it?.

    Well since you insist ......

    YOUR MA TOO :rolleyes:


  • #86
    RichieC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭RichieC


    Sisko wrote: »
    religion should be banned in schools and kept to the churches. imo religion should be banned from being forced on kids till they're 18. Its practically brainwashing atm.

    agree, look at america for instance... more of them believe in UFO's than in evolution because of religious indoctrination.

    and now the fruits of it, you literally cannot have a serious discussion on a website without one of them coming in and Sh*tting on the conversation with some half cocked rubbish their mother thought them in their homeschooling...

    I'm glad the Catholic church formally accepted evolution, we dodged a bullet on that one.


  • #87
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,018 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    RichieC wrote: »
    more of them believe in UFO's than in evolution because of religious indoctrination.

    But UFO's exist

    Everytime someone looks into the sky and asks themselves what the :confused::confused::confused::confused: is that ? theyve seen a UFO

    When the realise its a bird/plane/superman the UFO becomes an IFO :pac:


  • #88
    RichieC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭RichieC


    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    But UFO's exist

    Everytime someone looks into the sky and asks themselves what the :confused::confused::confused::confused: is that ? theyve seen a UFO

    When the realise its a bird/plane/superman the UFO becomes an IFO :pac:

    haha, well yes... but you /should/ get my gist :p


  • #89
    partyatmygaff
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,992 ✭✭✭✭partyatmygaff


    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    Well since you insist ......

    YOUR MA TOO :rolleyes:
    Err....

    :confused:


  • #90
    RichieC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭RichieC


    partyatmygaff wrote: »
    Err....

    :confused:

    I see now with your defense of the catholic church why you like Micheal jackson.


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  • #91
    partyatmygaff
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,992 ✭✭✭✭partyatmygaff


    RichieC wrote: »
    I see now with your defense of the catholic church why you like Micheal jackson.
    I see no correlation between one of the world's best entertainers and a religious organisation.

    I do however see a correlation between militant Atheism and nasty, crass posts.


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