anyone here going to vote sinn féin?

Zubeneschamali · 11-02-2011 10:38AM

danbohan wrote: »

are you one or just an expert on them ?

A bugger? What's SF policy on those?

danbohan · 11-02-2011 10:40AM

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

A bugger? What's SF policy on those?

on buggers or leprechauns ?,

Zubeneschamali · 11-02-2011 10:47AM

danbohan wrote: »

on buggers or leprechauns ?,

I'm wondering what SF policy on crafty little buggers is:

You know the story about the solid Irish citizen who thinks he's found a way to better himself when a Leprechaun he catches promises him a big pile of gold if he'll let him go, and next day the gold turns to a pile of dead leaves?

I'd imagine SF are in favour, since that's exactly what their economic policy is about.

danbohan · 11-02-2011 10:50AM

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

I'm wondering what SF policy on crafty little buggers is:

You know the story about the solid Irish citizen who thinks he's found a way to better himself when a Leprechaun he catches promises him a big pile of gold if he'll let him go, and next day the gold turns to a pile of dead leaves?

I'd imagine SF are in favour, since that's exactly what their economic policy is about.

when a Leprechaun he catches promises him a big pile of gold if he'll let him go, and next day the gold turns to a pile of dead leaves?

sounds like thats what happened lenighan with his bank guarantees

Pete_Cavan · 11-02-2011 10:51AM

danbohan wrote: »

SFs entire election campaign is built on fantasy.

might well be true ,but then so is the other partys as well , we are been lied to night and day by all the partys , why this sorry mess has to go on for 3 weeks is beyond me

Like I said, SFs plan falls down on the fact that it is based on spending the NPRF twice (which is not possible btw). Also, by telling the IMF to take a long walk off a short pier and defaulting on loans we will not be able to get any money for next year. Then there is the issue that reversing cuts and not increasing taxes will leave us needing more money than we already do. These are simple facts which SF have ignored so it is complete fantasy.

I'll take it you have examples of similar holes in policies from the other parties?

danbohan · 11-02-2011 10:55AM

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Like I said, SFs plan falls down on the fact that it is based on spending the NPRF twice (which is not possible btw). Also, by telling the IMF to take a long walk off a short pier and defaulting on loans we will not be able to get any money for next year. Then there is the issue that reversing cuts and not increasing taxes will leave us needing more money than we already do. These are simple facts which SF have ignored so it is complete fantasy.

I'll take it you have examples of similar holes in policies from the other parties?

i am not defending sinn feins economic policy or lack of . so everthing is grand is it ? your prepared to believe fianna fails policy or fianna fail light ie fine gael , i am not
we dont have an economic policy , we will be told our economic policy by imf /eu

Zubeneschamali · 11-02-2011 11:00AM

danbohan wrote: »

we will be told our economic policy by imf /eu

Finally a SF position I can agree with.

Pete_Cavan · 11-02-2011 11:10AM

danbohan wrote: »

i am not defending sinn feins economic policy or lack of . so everthing is grand is it ? your prepared to believe fianna fails policy or fianna fail light ie fine gael , i am not
we dont have an economic policy , we will be told our economic policy by imf /eu

We will not be told our economic policy by the EU/IMF but our policies will have to be carried out within the terms of their bailout agreement. FF, FG and Lab are realistic about this fact and each have set out different policies taking account of the restraints of this agreement. At least they are being realistic.

SF on the other hand are just shouting populist nonsense in order to pick up votes, they know they will not be part of the next government so will not have to implement any of their policies. The fact that the numbers for their plan doesnt add up doesnt seem to matter to them. Anybody could put together an economics policy based on spending the NPRF several times and balancing the books by not increasing income or reducing expenditure but SF are the only ones with the audacity to put it to the people and promise everything will be fine and rosy. It is pure fantasy and voting for it is denying reality.

danbohan · 11-02-2011 11:13AM

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

We will not be told our economic policy by the EU/IMF but our policies will have to be carried out within the terms of their bailout agreement. FF, FG and Lab are realistic about this fact and each have set out different policies taking account of the restraints of this agreement. At least they are being realistic.

SF on the other hand are just shouting populist nonsense in order to pick up votes, they know they will not be part of the next government so will not have to implement any of their policies. The fact that the numbers for their plan doesnt add up doesnt seem to matter to them. Anybody could put together an economics policy based on spending the NPRF several times and balancing the books by not increasing income or reducing expenditure but SF are the only ones with the audacity to put it to the people and promise everything will be fine and rosy. It is pure fantasy and voting for it is denying reality.

will not be told our economic policy by the EU/IMF but our policies will have to be carried out within the terms of their bailout agreement.

and the difference is ?

Pete_Cavan · 11-02-2011 11:26AM

danbohan wrote: »

will not be told our economic policy by the EU/IMF but our policies will have to be carried out within the terms of their bailout agreement.

and the difference is ?

The difference is we are told we have to reduce the budget deficit, how we reduce it is up to us.

danbohan · 11-02-2011 11:30AM

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

The difference is we are told we have to reduce the budget deficit, how we reduce it is up to us.

and everything we do has to be pre approved by them .

Pete_Cavan · 11-02-2011 11:31AM

danbohan wrote: »

and everything we do has to be pre approved by them .

Where does it say that?

PauloMN · 11-02-2011 11:44AM

I don't think I could ever vote for SF in my lifetime. Too close a connection between them and the IRA, and incidents like the McCabe murder.

They can dress them up in suits all they want, but they still have civilian blood, and the blood of our security forces on their hands.

Aside from that, I would never trust them to be in charge of our country's economy.

caseyann · 11-02-2011 11:51AM

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

You guys think the IRA won?

This is even funnier than voting for Sinn Fein!

You think without those people who fought and died and protected Irish families, and possibly members of your own family who were IRA members you would even be a dot on the horizon? Or that Irish people would have gained any form of Independence or equality in our country.
I am thankful we had people who had the back bone to stand up and fight back and not back down.War wasnt won yet as they still are controlling part of our land.
This thread is not about the IRA btw,And i mentioned them only for the purpose of showing they are the ones who freed you and who made way for peace along with Sinn Féin,if not for Sinn Féin there would have been no peace talks or cease fire.

metzengerstein · 11-02-2011 11:58AM

im not really sure ,i usually spoil my vote because ive no time for any politicians all a shower of scum ,who have no clue what they are doing and make this country and its people suffer and be miserable .

ive always read partys policies and sin feins have always been the best and seemed like they think in reality .the others all in a fantasy land .

i dont think they will ever get elected though as people seem to be afraid of what theyl do.but if they actauly where serious and would put there proposals in place .i think it could be great they want to help the people rather than putting things in place that we dont need .and how can the country get any worse its already fubard.

so i may give them my vote this year .

NotorietyH · 11-02-2011 12:29PM

metzengerstein wrote: »

ive always read partys policies and sin feins have always been the best and seemed like they think in reality .the others all in a fantasy land .

I think you've got that backwards. Sinn Fein live in a fantasy land where they can spend the Pension Reserve fund twice.

PauloMN · 11-02-2011 12:37PM

metzengerstein wrote: »

im not really sure ,i usually spoil my vote because ive no time for any politicians all a shower of scum ,who have no clue what they are doing and make this country and its people suffer and be miserable .

ive always read partys policies and sin feins have always been the best and seemed like they think in reality .the others all in a fantasy land .

i dont think they will ever get elected though as people seem to be afraid of what theyl do.but if they actauly where serious and would put there proposals in place .i think it could be great they want to help the people rather than putting things in place that we dont need .and how can the country get any worse its already fubard.

so i may give them my vote this year .

Spoil your vote again please. At least you won't have given SF a vote.

And all politicians are not scum by the way.

johnie89 · 11-02-2011 12:43PM

NotorietyH wrote: »

I think you've got that backwards. Sinn Fein live in a fantasy land where they can spend the Pension Reserve fund twice.

I thought they were going to spend it once, and then go to the bond markets to continue funding day to day spending as the economy recovers.

Remember without having to take on the bank debt, our sovereign debt becomes a lot easier to manage. As I'm sure you know sovereign debt is rarely paid back, its just serviced. At the moment under FF and FG's plans we will continue to service it (forever) at a cost of 5billion in interest a year. How much would the debt cost to service if the bank guarantee wasn't included?

I dont believe that if we 'burn the bond holders' of the banks that they will then penalize us when we go to the bond markets.

After a year of having more money in the economy (as we wont be pouring it into the black hole that is the banks) we will see economic growth. Then when we go to the bond markets, they wont demand as much interest as they will be confident of our recovery.

johnie89 · 11-02-2011 12:47PM

Why is it if I invest my money in a business, and it fails, I loose my money?

When, If I invest my money in a doggy bank, and it fails, the Irish tax payer bails me out and I loose nothing?

Its a shame I wasn't born into a wealthy German family.... the Irish people are so generous to protect their investments....

NotorietyH · 11-02-2011 12:49PM

johnie89 wrote: »

I thought they were going to spend it once, and then go to the bond markets to continue funding day to day spending as the economy recovers.

They've said they'll use the Pension Reserve fund to cover the budget deficit this year, which would use up it up completely, and have also said they'd use it for a stimulus package. A 7 billion euro stimulus package if I remember correctly. So they are proposing to spend the money twice.

SafeSurfer · 11-02-2011 01:41PM

johnie89 wrote: »

When, If I invest my money in a doggy bank, ....

Is this like piggy bank with sharper teeth?

Zubeneschamali · 11-02-2011 02:00PM

caseyann wrote: »

You think without those people who fought and died and protected Irish families, and possibly members of your own family who were IRA members you would even be a dot on the horizon? Or that Irish people would have gained any form of Independence or equality in our country.

The IRA and Sinn Fein I'm talking about are the ones which exist and existed in my lifetime, not the ones which existed 90 years ago.

They fought a 30 year campaign to unite Ireland. They lost.

Then they gave up the bomb and bullet to have a try at politics instead.

They will have to do it without my vote, and the votes of many who were paying attention when they wanted to destroy our state.

caseyann · 11-02-2011 02:16PM

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

The IRA and Sinn Fein I'm talking about are the ones which exist and existed in my lifetime, not the ones which existed 90 years ago.

They fought a 30 year campaign to unite Ireland. They lost.

Then they gave up the bomb and bullet to have a try at politics instead.

They will have too do it without my vote, and the votes of many who were paying attention when they wanted to destroy our state.

In this lifetime they were fighting for exact same cause and when they got some of what they wished they laid down their arms.British forces and loyalists were degrading Irish well after the 90 year ago fight.It just didnt stop because we won the republic back.Maybe for you so carry on with your sweet little life.I remember and seen what happened to Irish up north long after so called British peace.
You may let it go for British side,i dont forget so easy.And while they are forgiven and life moves on and everyone tries to carry on and find solutions(NOT THE BREAK AWAY FACTIONS OF IRA) No one seems to forget about the IRA side even though it is their country.Not British (stolen by British)Everyone condemns the IRA.Funny that concentration on IRA from all sides but no concentration on the loyalists.
Oh ye evil Irish give me a break.
Ah if only life was so simple as you make it.Question some force invades Ireland what will you do?
Destroy our state? They are about the only ones who want our state to work for everyone not just for themselves;)
Enjoy your voting.I will enjoy mine

Now anyone have any ideas who i could vote with Sinn Féin?
I am on the fence and cant decide who should be my number 2!
P.S they may have fought the campaign but Irish were fighting for their lives long time before.

Pete_Cavan · 11-02-2011 02:19PM

johnie89 wrote: »

I thought they were going to spend it once, and then go to the bond markets to continue funding day to day spending as the economy recovers.

Remember without having to take on the bank debt, our sovereign debt becomes a lot easier to manage. As I'm sure you know sovereign debt is rarely paid back, its just serviced. At the moment under FF and FG's plans we will continue to service it (forever) at a cost of 5billion in interest a year. How much would the debt cost to service if the bank guarantee wasn't included?

I dont believe that if we 'burn the bond holders' of the banks that they will then penalize us when we go to the bond markets.

After a year of having more money in the economy (as we wont be pouring it into the black hole that is the banks) we will see economic growth. Then when we go to the bond markets, they wont demand as much interest as they will be confident of our recovery.

NotorietyH has already dealt with the NPRF issue.

As for going back to the bond markets, do you really think they are going to give us money 12 months after we default on billions of euro worth of loans? Iceland has proved that SFs plan will not work, they defaulted on bank debt but still couldnt get money on the bond markets at a decent interest rate and needed the IMF to bail them out. Thats why SFs plan is based on fantasy, we have already had this situation in reality and it didnt pan out the way SF say it will for us.

Zubeneschamali · 11-02-2011 03:05PM

Keep it up, caseyann, I hope lots of young and first-time voters get a good look at the real thinking of Sinn Féin on the subject of the Brits, 800 years of oppression, etc.

It's not just about mad economics, folks, there are much more serious problems within SF.

caseyann · 11-02-2011 03:12PM

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Keep it up, caseyann, I hope lots of young and first-time voters get a good look at the real thinking of Sinn Féin on the subject of the Brits, 800 years of oppression, etc.

It's not just about mad economics, folks, there are much more serious problems within SF.

Keep what up?

The real thinking on it? What is the real thinking of Sinn Féin who made peace and sat down for talks and didnt want to fight anymore and work with British everyday?

bearballs · 11-02-2011 03:18PM

I agree forget the two party shake down time to try a totally new direction.

C14N · 11-02-2011 03:44PM

danbohan wrote: »

and everything we do has to be pre approved by them .

Yes, it obviously has to be approved by them. If I had a friend who had a history of borrowing money and blowing it on the horses without paying back, I would make a point of finding out what he's going to spend it on this time.

It's the same story, we haven't been great at managing the money so far in the recession. It seems reasonable that the guys with the money get the final word on where it goes.

metzengerstein wrote: »

ive always read partys policies and sin feins have always been the best and seemed like they think in reality .the others all in a fantasy land .

Please elaborate on which Sinn Féin policies are realistic and which Fine Gael ones are in fantasy land. I'm absolutely dying to know.

caseyann wrote: »

Everyone condemns the IRA.Funny that concentration on IRA from all sides but no concentration on the loyalists.

Are you serious? How could you possibly say that people only hate the IRA and not the loyalists? Everyone knows they were a massive cause of problems, the difference is that they weren't on "our" side. People are inclined to feel more ashamed about the atrocities the IRA committed because they were supposed to be for the Irish.

Regardless of your opinion on whether you support the IRA or not, it's a terrible reason to vote Sinn Féin. We're not enemies with England (or anybody) anymore.

caseyann · 11-02-2011 03:55PM

C14N wrote: »

Are you serious? How could you possibly say that people only hate the IRA and not the loyalists? Everyone knows they were a massive cause of problems, the difference is that they weren't on "our" side. People are inclined to feel more ashamed about the atrocities the IRA committed because they were supposed to be for the Irish.

Regardless of your opinion on whether you support the IRA or not, it's a terrible reason to vote Sinn Féin. We're not enemies with England (or anybody) anymore.

Where did i say i was voting for SF for that reason,or even said i hate British and consider them enemies?

Zubeneschamali · 11-02-2011 03:55PM

C14N wrote: »

Regardless of your opinion on whether you support the IRA or not, it's a terrible reason to vote Sinn Féin. We're not enemies with England (or anybody) anymore.

Ah, but lots of Sinn Féin supporters are still enemies of the Brits, and believe that the only valid Irish state is a 32 county one, and our Dáil is not the real Dáil, and the IRA's army council is the real government.

anyone here going to vote sinn féin?

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