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Trans* Questions

123578

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  • #122
    L.Jenkins
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 19,242 Mod ✭✭✭✭L.Jenkins


    Maybe I haven't read too much into what you've posted Hexy, but I'm somewhat perplexed by your statements. If transsexuality is not about ones gender, then what may I ask is it? Hope I don't sound like I'm attacking you, I'm just curious.


  • #123
    Hexydezimal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15 ✭Hexydezimal


    ItsThatManAgain wrote: »
    Maybe I haven't read too much into what you've posted Hexy, but I'm somewhat perplexed by your statements. If transsexuality is not about ones gender, then what may I ask is it? Hope I don't sound like I'm attacking you, I'm just curious.
    Innate, natural variations that cause an opposite sexual identity. One's brain sex is set up before birth, and the more extreme cases of those brains are thought to go into the transsexual range. I go into more detail on my blog (http://hexydezimal.wordpress.com/) which is well worth keeping track of because I plan to go into some seriously interesting topics. Alternatively, you can read the GIRES report for yourself: http://www.gires.org.uk/assets/atypical-gender-development.pdf


  • #124
    Endymion
    Closed Accounts Posts: 638 ✭✭✭Endymion


    Hmm, you're dressing opinion up as fact. I wasn't aware there was scientific and medical consensus on the causes of transsexualism. I know there's a strong movement towards it being primarily physical and the person's neurobiology (what you're calling brain sex) but I really don't see how you can so adamantly declare gender has absolutely no part whatsoever to play, especially since it contrasts so strongly with what other transsexuals have declared.


  • #125
    Links234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,944 ✭✭✭✭Links234


    Hexydezimal wrote: »
    It has nothing to do with gender roles or gender. That has given legions of people the wrong idea about us, and I think it's about time we rid ourselves of it.

    But nobody has said it was anything to do with gender roles, and I think you are conflating gender identity with the social roles because you don't like the word gender. So what your saying really just comes down to an argument over semantics.

    I don't think that anyone here is under the impression that transsexuality is anything other than physical or biological, it's pretty well established that there are physical differences in the brain, that there are associated genes, variation in grey matter and white matter, differentiating responses in the hypothalamus, loads of physiological evidence has been presented. Check out this post from Zoe Brain's blog, she's compiled a lot of different links. Transsexuality = physical, biological issue. Done deal, books are closed on that one.

    This all goes to show that a person's gender identity (meaning their internal sense of self, their sense of being male or female) has a biological basis. where we're going wrong here, is that you are using the word gender solely to describe the societal roles that are ascribed to a person, while discounting the wider meanings of the word and conflating it as if it all meant the same thing, but gender identity has a separate and very distinct meaning to gender role. so because you don't like the word gender, or feel it has negative connotations, you're supplanting the term gender identity with sexual identity. but sexual identity has it's own meaning, such as being gay/lesbian/bisexual are sexual identities, it's a term that's more often used to describe a person's sexuality.

    But we're all talking about the same thing, that sense of self, the feelings of being male or female in spite of our outward anatomy. most of us will call it gender identity, but you'd rather call it sexual identity because you don't like the word gender.

    it's semantics ;)


  • #126
    Hexydezimal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15 ✭Hexydezimal


    Links234 wrote: »
    it's semantics ;)
    Not quite. If it is indeed biological and decided for you before birth, then one can't exactly call it a gender identity can they? Just a bit misleading, there...


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  • #127
    Endymion
    Closed Accounts Posts: 638 ✭✭✭Endymion


    I think, if I may, the point that Links is making is that the biological nature of transsexualism impacts on the physiological nature of gender identity. They are distinct but related things. You seem to be asserting that Links and others are claiming that transsexualism is just a gender identity, and are counting that argument.


  • #128
    Hexydezimal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15 ✭Hexydezimal


    Endymion wrote: »
    I think, if I may, the point that Links is making is that the biological nature of transsexualism impacts on the physiological nature of gender identity. They are distinct but related things. You seem to be asserting that Links and others are claiming that transsexualism is just a gender identity, and are counting that argument.
    Well the unfortunate truth of the matter there is that unlike biology, we can't prove any such thing. So it is a dead end where legitimacy is concerned.

    That is the reason I am focused more on the cause than the effect here.


  • #129
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,006 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Links234 wrote: »
    But we're all talking about the same thing, that sense of self, the feelings of being male or female in spite of our outward anatomy.
    To somewhat reiterate what I asked earlier in this thread. What has gender identity got to do with one's genitals/anatomy?

    As the saying goes, "sex is between the legs, gender is between the ears", they're two distinct things, but where does the link come in?


  • #130
    L.Jenkins
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 19,242 Mod ✭✭✭✭L.Jenkins


    In all honesty, I don't care much how society views me. We can argue the social and biological concepts and constructs of gender all day, but I know that I should have boobs, not balls. Simple as.


  • #131
    hare05
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,041 ✭✭✭hare05


    ItsThatManAgain wrote: »
    In all honesty, I don't care much how society views me. We can argue the social and biological concepts and constructs of gender all day, but I know that I should have boobs, not balls. Simple as.

    :D This also sums up my opinion on the issue :pac:


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  • #132
    deirdre_dub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,229 ✭✭✭deirdre_dub


    anonyonyonymous wrote: »
    To somewhat reiterate what I asked earlier in this thread. What has gender identity got to do with one's genitals/anatomy?

    As the saying goes, "sex is between the legs, gender is between the ears", they're two distinct things, but where does the link come in?
    There is something that feels quite wrong to be a woman with a penis and testicles. It just doesn't seem right.


  • #133
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,006 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    I'm just wondering, what does it feel like to be trans? You always hear 'man trapped in a womans body' etc, is that true for most people?


  • #134
    Hexydezimal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15 ✭Hexydezimal


    anonyonyonymous wrote: »
    To somewhat reiterate what I asked earlier in this thread. What has gender identity got to do with one's genitals/anatomy?

    As the saying goes, "sex is between the legs, gender is between the ears", they're two distinct things, but where does the link come in?
    Gender only exists that way after the fact -- that is, after you are born. The causes of transsexuality exist earlier than that, because they're programmed in the brain in the womb. So what results is a male or female brained person with the wrong anatomy. That is why I use the term sexual identity.


  • #135
    hare05
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,041 ✭✭✭hare05


    curious2000 wrote: »
    I'm just wondering, what does it feel like to be trans? You always hear 'man trapped in a womans body' etc, is that true for most people?

    My experience:

    Think of a hormonal imbalance, but extremely long term. Excess testosterone will make you tense all the time, your head is always clouded and you can't think straight. Occasional headaches, feeling sick for as long as you can remember, and a feeling of 'wrongness' that gets stronger over time, like an itch rubbing itself slowly into a rash. Possibly coupled with disgust for your genitalia (Though some, like me just feel annoyance rather than revulsion) and an increasing distaste for your body and the shape it is taking.

    Now add guilt, fear and other conditioning from years hiding feelings that aren't 'acceptable' to the majority of loud people in society.

    Then add the stigma of knowing you need to move forward, but the possibility of ever being presentably 'female' to the majority of people is a complete gamble.

    That's about it for me at least.


  • #136
    Hexydezimal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15 ✭Hexydezimal


    curious2000 wrote: »
    I'm just wondering, what does it feel like to be trans? You always hear 'man trapped in a womans body' etc, is that true for most people?
    Remember that movie Men in Black? I know it was a terrible movie, but it is rather like that bug alien. You are in a body that is foreign to how your brain works.

    As time goes on, damned near everybody transsexual reacts negatively to puberty because it is just the worst.

    The best way to describe it is that your feelings don't gel with reality. How you know things should be in your heart and mind are the wrong way around.


  • #137
    Azure_sky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,131 ✭✭✭Azure_sky


    Hexydezimal wrote: »
    As time goes on, damned near everybody transsexual reacts negatively to puberty because it is just the worst.

    Agreed. Puberty sucks. All those horrid secondary sex characteristics raising their ugly heads.


  • #138
    L.Jenkins
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 19,242 Mod ✭✭✭✭L.Jenkins


    Well, it will be a pleasure to go through puberty a second time nowing my body will be doing it right this time.


  • #139
    hare05
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,041 ✭✭✭hare05


    Hexydezimal wrote: »
    Remember that movie Men in Black? I know it was a terrible movie, but it is rather like that bug alien. You are in a body that is foreign to how your brain works.

    Therapist: "Would you like anything to drink?"

    TS Person: "Sugar... in water..."

    Therapist: "Ok..."

    TS Person *Eats therapist, then does battle with Will Smith*

    :cool: :cool:


    (Chorus)
    Here come the Men in Black. (Men in Black)
    The galaxy defenders. (uh oh, uh oh)
    Here come the Men in Black. (Men in Black)
    They won't let you remember. (won't remember)
    (uh uh, uh uh)


  • #140
    deirdre_dub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,229 ✭✭✭deirdre_dub


    curious2000 wrote: »
    I'm just wondering, what does it feel like to be trans? You always hear 'man trapped in a womans body' etc, is that true for most people?
    I don't think there is anything about being trans that is true for most trans people!

    How would I answer the question about how it feels? To be honest, I would answer it differently depending on who was asking the question. If I were talking to a journalist, I might talk about the way that my brain is a female brain, which is kinda the same thing as "woman trapped in a man's body".

    If I were talking to a person who was considering if they were trans themselves, I might talk about how I just had this constant background feeling of something being not quite right, about the issues I had around gender, and about how my miseducation kept me in the dark about who and what I am for decades.

    If I were talking to a friend, I would talk about how it feels fantastic to now be myself, about how I'm happier than I've ever been, and about how, for the first time in my life, I'm looking forward to the rest of my life.


  • #141
    Links234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,944 ✭✭✭✭Links234


    anonyonyonymous wrote: »
    To somewhat reiterate what I asked earlier in this thread. What has gender identity got to do with one's genitals/anatomy?

    As the saying goes, "sex is between the legs, gender is between the ears", they're two distinct things, but where does the link come in?

    I think this is a really good article on the subject: http://articles.sfgate.com/2008-04-13/opinion/17146210_1_body-image-limb-phantom


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  • #142
    bitter_lemon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 433 ✭✭bitter_lemon


    why is there so much information and help and groups out there for mtfs and there seems to be non existent help for ftms? is it because ftms are less likely to discuss it? is it more of a taboo?


  • #143
    L.Jenkins
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 19,242 Mod ✭✭✭✭L.Jenkins


    The number of FTMs is lower in frequency to that of MTFs. They're are supports there that not only cater for us MTFs, but FTMs aswell. Check out www.teni.ie and if you're feeling up to it, you could attend any of the support meetings around the Country.

    It's not that we've discussed FTMs any less, it's simply a matter of having encountered less. So welcome aboard bitter, and feel free to open up any debate or join in on any discussion. The more the merrier.


  • #144
    deirdre_dub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,229 ✭✭✭deirdre_dub


    bitter_lemon wrote: »
    why is there so much information and help and groups out there for mtfs and there seems to be non existent help for ftms?
    All of the TENI support groups are open to F2Ms - the Dublin one has a few regular F2M participants. There are also plenty of web sites for F2Ms.
    ItsThatManAgain wrote:
    The number of FTMs is lower in frequency to that of MTFs.
    I'm far from convinced that's true. I have, on occassion, found myself in a trans gathering which had a majority of F2Ms.

    F2M are less visible. Partly because they, in general, make better-looking men than M2F make women, and hence they have, in general, that bit easier a time fitting back into society. Also, our patriarchical society is more fascinated by M2Fs than F2Ms.

    There is also the phenomenon (as was pointed out to me by an F2M friend) that men just don't discuss their feelings in the same way that women do! Us women are constantly talking about our feelings, whereas our F2M brothers prefer to just socialise informally.


  • #145
    Eebs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 259 ✭✭Eebs


    bitter_lemon wrote: »
    why is there so much information and help and groups out there for mtfs and there seems to be non existent help for ftms? is it because ftms are less likely to discuss it? is it more of a taboo?


    There is a FTM meet on this weekend.

    At the early stages of transition there is a LOT of overlap in needs for trans people. Specific information for FTMs is widely available on the net.

    edit: If you happen to be FTM or questioning etc. and want to come along to the meet please PM me ASAP. It's Dublin based.


  • #146
    wallplugsocket
    Closed Accounts Posts: 70 ✭✭wallplugsocket


    Any of other TG people on here that almost regret coming to terms with their gender idenity due to the implications? Like just really wish you could just be happy as the old you? Is it normal? In an entirely **** place where it feels like way too much to take on board


  • #147
    Freiheit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,783 ✭✭✭Freiheit


    I can understand how someone would feel that way, but I realise that staying in the closet could not leave me mentally healthy. In time you will gather the pieces and can cultivate a better life.


  • #148
    Eebs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 259 ✭✭Eebs


    TiernanJ wrote: »
    Any of other TG people on here that almost regret coming to terms with their gender idenity due to the implications? Like just really wish you could just be happy as the old you? Is it normal? In an entirely **** place where it feels like way too much to take on board


    Yeah sure. It would also be great if I didn't put on weight so easily, if I loved vegetables or I enjoyed visiting the dentist.

    However, I don't and I can't do anything about those things.
    Sure they're not as dramatic as being trans but it's the same sort of deal. I wished I didn't have to transition, it's a big feck load of hassle and it's scary as all hell but you'll get through it and you'll be fine. I did what I needed to do and as a result things are great.

    At the end of the day wishin n hopin n prayin isn't going to change things. Maybe you feel a bit guilty, like 'why can't I just deal with it?!'.
    Try to accept what you can't change and change what you can. Like maybe try change your attitude from fear to determination. Just keep your chin up and try accept who you are. You'll be ok.


  • #149
    wallplugsocket
    Closed Accounts Posts: 70 ✭✭wallplugsocket


    Thanks guys.
    You're right eebs, just find it hard when it ends up effectin things beyond my control that really I should have a say over. But that's just emotions for ya eh?

    Itll get easier I guess


  • #150
    L.Jenkins
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 19,242 Mod ✭✭✭✭L.Jenkins


    So I'm somewhat fraustrated today. Rang Dr. O'Shays clinic, they haven't received my referral letter from Dr. Lucey yet, so I rang his clinic. Secratary in Dr. Luceys clinic posted the letter (Which was written as late as early December) to my local Psychiatrist whom I also rang today after my appointment this morning so they could post a referral on my behalf to Dr. O'Shay. They haven't received the letter yet.

    My thoughts at the moment:

    Trip to Dublin: €25
    Psychiatrist Appointment: €300
    Food: €10
    Missing referral letter and no appointment yet: fúcking priceless!!!

    For everything else:
    FFFFFUUUUU_Strip_Tease_What_would_you_do-s358x315-30180-580.jpg


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  • #151
    Azure_sky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,131 ✭✭✭Azure_sky


    Yeah it can be pretty frustrating to say the least. You'd need to see a psychiatrist purely due to the stress of trying to get an appointment. Do you need to see a psychiatrist as soon as you see Dr' O' Shea? I already saw Dr Kelly and he diagnosed me with GID, so do I have to see another psychiatrist now?


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