Taxi - 9 year rule

Spook_ie · 25-01-2011 3:30pm

Just to throw a 2c into pot (BTW Times are hard so it's only a loan of 2c)

WHY should taxis be put of the road at 9 years old? the facts are that the NCT ( yearly) defines them as safe and suitable for use on the road, the SGS suitability test ( in theory) defines them as clean, equipped and suitable for use as a PSV

If it were a case of safety then surely everyone who drives a 9 year old car should have to replace them as a mandatory thing, maybe taxi drivers should campaign that all cars on Irish roads be less than 9 years old

perhaps we should extend it to buses and coaches as well, at least then one part of the Irish Economy would have a mini boom.

Now just as an afterthought on the 9 year rule WHY should people who need a WCA taxi be treated differently from anyone else and be forced to endure vehicles that can be of any age as long as they pass the NCT and SGS tests? surely people with disabilities are supposed to be treated with equality

Spook_ie · 25-01-2011 3:35pm

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Would you want to be in a crash in a 25 year old car even though it has a NCT? I doubt it, newer cars are safer than old cars (and less polluting). Its different if its your car but when you are providing a service its a different thing altogether.

So why should I risk crashing my newer car into some persons 25 year old banger, scrap them all or scrap none

Spook_ie · 25-01-2011 3:50pm

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Driving a 25 year car privately is a choice that a person takes (i have a 30 and a 40year old car). However when you are providing a service and charging people for it you have to have certain standards. VB`s Avensis is mint but I have seen some terrible looking taxis in the city centre. For every mint taxi their is three or four buckets.

And I agree that the buckets need taking off the road BUT that still doesn't give a satisfactory answer as to WHY a 9 year old taxi is any worse than an 11 year or 15 year old taxi as long as they are tested properly by the SGS/NCT, as for you havin a 30 and 40 year old car then WHY shouldn't they be put of the road they are probably going to rip anyone involved in an accident with them to shreds, regardless of whether they are providing a service or not

cadaliac · 25-01-2011 4:21pm

LIGHTNING wrote: »

They have to draw the line somewhere, its not going to please everybody but thats what they decided.

+1
No matter what year (rule) they brought in - it wasn't going to please everyone.
Personally, I think its a good rule - in the sence that it will rid our roads of death trap worn out, clapped out heaps of sh1t that pass for some taxi's or hackneys.
Unfortunately, as a price for this, some cars (like VB's Avensis) will be victim to this rule, as will other cars in mint condition.
However I think that the loss of lots of bad cars outweighs the loss of some mint cars over the 9 year age.
This of course is comming from a consumer and not a driver/owner point of view.

Spook_ie · 25-01-2011 5:02pm

cadaliac wrote: »

+1
No matter what year (rule) they brought in - it wasn't going to please everyone.
Personally, I think its a good rule - in the sence that it will rid our roads of death trap worn out, clapped out heaps of sh1t that pass for some taxi's or hackneys.
Unfortunately, as a price for this, some cars (like VB's Avensis) will be victim to this rule, as will other cars in mint condition.
However I think that the loss of lots of bad cars outweighs the loss of some mint cars over the 9 year age.
This of course is comming from a consumer and not a driver/owner point of view.

So neither you or lightening can give a valid argument other than "they have to draw a line somewhere" is that not what the SGS suitability test was supposed to achieve in sorting out the clankers with damaged paintwork, dents, torn upholstery and general cack that's out there, which can equaly apply to many cars I see that are less than 9 years old.

Spook_ie · 25-01-2011 5:12pm

LIGHTNING wrote: »

I would guess that the SGS thinking was safety, I am not a taxi driver perhaps some of taxi driving posters can shed some light on issue.

Look on the Euroncap site and look at the difference a couple of years can make to an the saloon car class of cars. Alot of cars in the mid 90`s were 3 stars (or worse)then and then jump 5 years and nearly all are 4/5 star or better.

No the SGS test doesn't involve safety at all, unless you count the checking of a fire extinguisher/1st aid kit, it relates purely to whether the vehicle meets licensing conditions, tax certs, insurence, meter calibrated, printer working, clean, undented etc.

NCAP is relatively meaningless as a lot of it depemds on the type of accident a vehicle is involved in, for instance 2 NCAP 5s would probably protect their passengers better in an accident than an NCAP 5 meeting up with some 20 or 30 year old private jallopy, therefore why not rid the roads off all cars over 9 years old!

kona · 25-01-2011 5:15pm

It should also be pointed out that the NCT is not a standardised test. There are different limits for different cars depending on age, in fact its usually to meet the Standards set out in the year the car was produced. Not a chance in hell a 20 year old Toyota will meet the standards of a car half its age.
20 years is a LONG time in development of cars.
I think a 9 year rule is fair, it also weeds out the people who are just taxing when there is **** all on TV.
There is such a choice of taxi ATM, its fantastic, where else do you get to have a choice between a 5 series and a e220 after a night on the piss.

Spook_ie · 25-01-2011 5:47pm

kona wrote: »

It should also be pointed out that the NCT is not a standardised test. There are different limits for different cars depending on age, in fact its usually to meet the Standards set out in the year the car was produced. Not a chance in hell a 20 year old Toyota will meet the standards of a car half its age.
20 years is a LONG time in development of cars.
I think a 9 year rule is fair, it also weeds out the people who are just taxing when there is **** all on TV.
There is such a choice of taxi ATM, its fantastic, where else do you get to have a choice between a 5 series and a e220 after a night on the piss.

The NCT doesn't test safety, it tests roadworthiness

There would probably be very little chance of a 20 year old Toyota passing out, but a car half its age would be 10 so therefore acceptable?

So surely a much fairer system would be to state that all taxi's have to meet a certain NCAP rating by such a date, after all many of the cars on the current list aren't high on the NCAP ratings and as stated on the NCAP site

Euro NCAP’s frontal impact test simulates a car crashing into another of similar mass and structure. In real life, when two cars collide the vehicle with the higher mass has an advantage over the lighter one. Generally speaking, vehicles with higher structures tend to fare better in accidents than those with lower structures. Therefore, ratings are comparable only between cars of similar mass and with broadly similar structures. Euro NCAP groups cars into the following structural categories: passenger car, MPV, off-roader, roadster and pickup. Within each of those categories, cars which are within 150kg of one another are considered comparable.

The NCAP ratings for a 1998 Series 5 is the same as a 2004 one at 4*, the e220 2002 had a 5* rating, so when they get to be 9 years old are they suddenly going to become 2 or 3 * ratings? The chrysler voyager 2007 ( which is acceptable as a taxi) has a paltry 1 and a half * so lets not lose sight of the fact that the 9 year rule IS NOT about safety

I Was VB · 25-01-2011 7:36pm

mickdw wrote: »

It looks ok in the pics. Anyway it seems we are going around in circles here because I seem to remember you posting that you didnt actually fancy driving the avensis as your taxi in the end. Also, you might call me a snob but that dodgy leather is hideous, functional no doubt but hideous none the less. I assume its aftermarket 'leather' finish? How does that work with the side impact airbags that may be positioned in the seat bolster?

I thought it was a silver avensis for some reason.

Your really digging the bottom of the barrel now for things to give out about on my Avensis. I didnt drive it because at the time i re-licenced my Carina and yeah over any Avensis new or old i'd take my Carina over it. The seats were done by CUC on Ushers Island, and they meet side airbag spec, which the SGS test must have a copy of.

I'd say your the type of person who sits down to have a piss, if your that picky about the type of seats you spend 10 mins on.

cadaliac · 25-01-2011 7:54pm

Spook_ie wrote: »

So neither you or lightening can give a valid argument other than "they have to draw a line somewhere" is that not what the SGS suitability test was supposed to achieve in sorting out the clankers with damaged paintwork, dents, torn upholstery and general cack that's out there, which can equaly apply to many cars I see that are less than 9 years old.

Read my post.
It was my opinion.
However, you do make a very good point about the NCAP * rating :

The NCAP ratings for a 1998 Series 5 is the same as a 2004 one at 4*, the e220 2002 had a 5* rating, so when they get to be 9 years old are they suddenly going to become 2 or 3 * ratings? The chrysler voyager 2007 ( which is acceptable as a taxi) has a paltry 1 and a half * so lets not lose sight of the fact that the 9 year rule IS NOT about safety

Indeed, you are correct, however I would rather get a lift in a 07 Chrysler voyager than a 98 5 series and lets not crash eh?

mickdw · 25-01-2011 8:43pm

I Was VB wrote: »

Your really digging the bottom of the barrel now for things to give out about on my Avensis. I didnt drive it because at the time i re-licenced my Carina and yeah over any Avensis new or old i'd take my Carina over it. The seats were done by CUC on Ushers Island, and they meet side airbag spec, which the SGS test must have a copy of.

I'd say your the type of person who sits down to have a piss, if your that picky about the type of seats you spend 10 mins on.

So we are agreed that it is inferior to a carina e. Says alot. Glad to hear the covers meet the requirements of the side airbags as safety is the issue here.
So you think Im the type of person who would rather spend 10 mins on a toilet than in an Avensis. FINALLY we agree!

I Was VB · 25-01-2011 8:46pm

mickdw wrote: »

So we are agreed that it is inferior to a carina e. Says alot. Glad to hear the covers meet the requirements of the side airbags as safety is the issue here.
So you think Im the type of person who would rather spend 10 mins on a toilet than in an Avensis. FINALLY we agree!

Well i do agree with you, the Toyota Carina E was the best car ever. It did everything and more importantly it did everything good.

kona · 25-01-2011 9:34pm

Spook_ie wrote: »

The NCT doesn't test safety, it tests roadworthiness

There would probably be very little chance of a 20 year old Toyota passing out, but a car half its age would be 10 so therefore acceptable?

So surely a much fairer system would be to state that all taxi's have to meet a certain NCAP rating by such a date, after all many of the cars on the current list aren't high on the NCAP ratings and as stated on the NCAP site

The NCAP ratings for a 1998 Series 5 is the same as a 2004 one at 4*, the e220 2002 had a 5* rating, so when they get to be 9 years old are they suddenly going to become 2 or 3 * ratings? The chrysler voyager 2007 ( which is acceptable as a taxi) has a paltry 1 and a half * so lets not lose sight of the fact that the 9 year rule IS NOT about safety

What the hell are you on about? where did I say safety? believe me, my car is far from being safe by modern standards yet has a NCT.

the 9 year rule is about getting wasters out of the industry using bangers. Your industry is full of gob****es, I should know I have to sit beside one most weekends. Who the **** wants to pay e20 for the privelidge of a 12 mile journey beside some overweight gob****e, stinks of smoke, and his car is rougher than bear grylls arse after a night in the jungle. Thats before he opens his gob with his warped views on life, warped because hes a lazy bastard that spends 6hrs a day in a rank reading every gob****e tabloid he can get.
Please give me a taxi driver like I had on sunday every day, A normal Human with a e220 and had something worthwhile to say.

Esel · 26-01-2011 2:13am

Look lads, the real reason for this rule is that the database designer (who has since taken early retirement on full pension) only allowed one character for the 'AGE_OF_TAXI' field. Because of cut-backs, there is no-one available with the skill to amend the record description. Build a bridge, and drive off it.

Esel · 26-01-2011 2:16am

kona wrote: »

Please give me a taxi driver like I had on sunday every day, A normal Human with a e220 and had something worthwhile to say.

Like "That's twenty two Euro. Make it twenty and we're grand."?

ardle1 · 26-01-2011 3:43am

kona wrote: »

What the hell are you on about? where did I say safety? believe me, my car is far from being safe by modern standards yet has a NCT.

the 9 year rule is about getting wasters out of the industry using bangers. Your industry is full of gob****es, I should know I have to sit beside one most weekends. Who the **** wants to pay e20 for the privelidge of a 12 mile journey beside some overweight gob****e, stinks of smoke, and his car is rougher than bear grylls arse after a night in the jungle. Thats before he opens his gob with his warped views on life, warped because hes a lazy bastard that spends 6hrs a day in a rank reading every gob****e tabloid he can get.
Please give me a taxi driver like I had on sunday every day, A normal Human with a e220 and had something worthwhile to say.

C'mon that's a wee bit discriminatery,, what your really trying to say is,, if you cant afford to be a taxi man when these new rules come in you should leave the job you love, are the dole ques not long enough,, and believe me the taxi game is so quiet in my town, he could read all the tabloids and the broadsheets.

26-01-2011 10:30am

ardle1 wrote: »

if you cant afford to be a taxi man when these new rules come in you should leave the job you love

Lots of folks have had to leave the jpb they love these days. If a fulltime taxi driver can't muster the funds to replace his old taxi with a 5 or 6 year old one then he is in the wrong game.

The stereotype of the average taxi driver was a tad harsh on the above post by Kona but there is a large percentage of overweight, track suit clad scumbags driving taxis these days. I thought there was a smart dress code that was part of the rules?

kona · 26-01-2011 12:54pm

ardle1 wrote: »

C'mon that's a wee bit discriminatery,, what your really trying to say is,, if you cant afford to be a taxi man when these new rules come in you should leave the job you love, are the dole ques not long enough,, and believe me the taxi game is so quiet in my town, he could read all the tabloids and the broadsheets.

Is it possible for Taxi driver racism?
Im sorry Its a opinion formed by having to take taxis every weekend , sometimes more than once. Most of them are a disgrace.
If you cant afford to be a taxi driver you cant afford it. Id love to sit on my hole all day doing whatever the **** I want and not worry about targets, people complaining, earning money, but I cant afford to tell the job to stick it.

Spook_ie · 26-01-2011 7:19pm

kona wrote: »

What the hell are you on about? where did I say safety? believe me, my car is far from being safe by modern standards yet has a NCT.

the 9 year rule is about getting wasters out of the industry using bangers. Your industry is full of gob****es, I should know I have to sit beside one most weekends. Who the **** wants to pay e20 for the privelidge of a 12 mile journey beside some overweight gob****e, stinks of smoke, and his car is rougher than bear grylls arse after a night in the jungle. Thats before he opens his gob with his warped views on life, warped because hes a lazy bastard that spends 6hrs a day in a rank reading every gob****e tabloid he can get.
Please give me a taxi driver like I had on sunday every day, A normal Human with a e220 and had something worthwhile to say.

I would have thought it reasonably obvious that I were agreeing with you that the NCT doesn't cover safety, it covers roadworthiness, there being a difference between a 1* car and a 5* car in safety but they could both still be roadworthy, sorry if this is going to be one of those threads were I'm going to have to treat posters as being in Kindergarten and spell each and every nuance out to you.

Now to your rant, which in my opinion, is extremely immature, but expected from a lot of boards.ie posters. The 9 year rule is NOT going to make any wasters leave the industry simply because you can still put a 7/8 year old car under yer arse for 2-3k and run it for 2/3 years, so just where is this improvement in quality supposed to be coming from?

It has often been maintained that the majority of percieved problems can be lain at the doorstep of a poorly regulated rental sector where by people who have not had to submit tax returns, who may be claiming SW, who may be allowing their mates, who may have one insured renter being driven by multiple drivers, can answer an advert in the Herald and drive a taxi for a week for €120-€200 a week with very few questions being asked!

kona · 26-01-2011 7:29pm

Spook_ie wrote: »

I would have thought it reasonably obvious that I were agreeing with you that the NCT doesn't cover safety, it covers roadworthiness, there being a difference between a 1* car and a 5* car in safety but they could both still be roadworthy, sorry if this is going to be one of those threads were I'm going to have to treat posters as being in Kindergarten and spell each and every nuance out to you.

Now to your rant, which in my opinion, is extremely immature, but expected from a lot of boards.ie posters. The 9 year rule is NOT going to make any wasters leave the industry simply because you can still put a 7/8 year old car under yer arse for 2-3k and run it for 2/3 years, so just where is this improvement in quality supposed to be coming from?

It has often been maintained that the majority of percieved problems can be lain at the doorstep of a poorly regulated rental sector where by people who have not had to submit tax returns, who may be claiming SW, who may be allowing their mates, who may have one insured renter being driven by multiple drivers, can answer an advert in the Herald and drive a taxi for a week for €120-€200 a week with very few questions being asked!

Yes you can get a 8 year old car for 2 grand but its not viable, you would want to buy something thats going to be the most economical and give you the most time for €.

Id agree with you, renting plates should be banned, its crazy, and Im sure the majority of the bad taxi drivers/cars are rentals. The rule is a good Idea, and time will tell if there is a improvement, I dont expect a bentley but I dont expect a 20 year old corrolla either.
In a fair world, there are many cars which are over 9 years and perfectly capable of being a safe car. Unfortunatley its got so out of hand with people taking the mick that something had to be done.

ardle1 · 26-01-2011 9:10pm

RoverJames wrote: »

Lots of folks have had to leave the jpb they love these days. If a fulltime taxi driver can't muster the funds to replace his old taxi with a 5 or 6 year old one then he is in the wrong game.

The stereotype of the average taxi driver was a tad harsh on the above post by Kona but there is a large percentage of overweight, track suit clad scumbags driving taxis these days. I thought there was a smart dress code that was part of the rules?

So what's goin on here now,, are we talking about the cars or the drivers???? you know what you haven't a clue, do you and a few others just search for threads and try and wind people up,, well go find another thread this is serious, longer dole ques ahead was never funny.:mad:

ardle1 · 26-01-2011 9:13pm

kona wrote: »

Is it possible for Taxi driver racism?
Im sorry Its a opinion formed by having to take taxis every weekend , sometimes more than once. Most of them are a disgrace.
If you cant afford to be a taxi driver you cant afford it. Id love to sit on my hole all day doing whatever the **** I want and not worry about targets, people complaining, earning money, but I cant afford to tell the job to stick it.

So what's goin on here now,, are we talking about the cars or the drivers???? you know what you haven't a clue, do you and a few others just search for threads and try and wind people up,, well go find another thread this is serious, longer dole ques ahead was never funny

kona · 26-01-2011 9:27pm

ardle1 wrote: »

So what's goin on here now,, are we talking about the cars or the drivers???? you know what you haven't a clue, do you and a few others just search for threads and try and wind people up,, well go find another thread this is serious, longer dole ques ahead was never funny

LOL

Boards.ie 'tis serious stuff.

ardle1 · 27-01-2011 3:20am

kona wrote: »

LOL

Boards.ie 'tis serious stuff.

TIS SERIOUS STUFF,, let me throw some figures out there!! most drivers on a day shift (not including Dublin) would expect to earn between €70.00 and €100.,the rare occasion you would earn up to €140... a regular shift would be between 10hr and 12hr Now assuming they are working out of a base, and that would nearly be the case for most drivers,, now going with facts most base's charge between €100-€130 per week,,so lets say he does 5 shifts per week bout €25.00 per day for base rent and at least €15.00 diesel,,, now evening shifts you would expect(of course) to earn more,, not the case,, there is only 1 YES ONE,,,,, 1 good night every weekend and thats SAT,, you may think what about Fri and Sun,, of course there is a lot of people out and about those nights but that's when all the night drivers appear (that's ok) and suddenly everything balances out.. Plenty of drivers for plenty of people.. These are all facts (not fiction) I drive in Dundalk,, and I have spoken to drivers from the Largest operator in town (I dont drive for this company) they are all friends of mine,, this base has at least 50 drivers on it's books.. I spoke to them just to clarify things and their base and ours comes up with nearly exact data.

27-01-2011 9:59am

ardle1 wrote: »

if you cant afford to be a taxi man when these new rules come in you should leave the job you love, are the dole ques not long enough,, and believe me the taxi game is so quiet in my town, he could read all the tabloids and the broadsheets.

Spook_ie wrote: »

The 9 year rule is NOT going to make any wasters leave the industry simply because you can still put a 7/8 year old car under yer arse for 2-3k and run it for 2/3 years, so just where is this improvement in quality supposed to be coming from?

ardle1 wrote: »

So what's goin on here now,, are we talking about the cars or the drivers???? you know what you haven't a clue, do you and a few others just search for threads and try and wind people up,, well go find another thread this is serious, longer dole ques ahead was never funny.:mad:

Who started the thread?

As Spook has pointed out the 9 year rule won't be making any wasters leave the industry. You on the other hand reckon it will result in folks who love their job having to leave the industry as they can't afford it. As I said if they can't afford to put a car under themselves for the next couple of years for a few grand they are in the wrong game.

I don't have a clue? So where you work as a taxi driver there are not a lot of scumbags, lads flouting the smart dressed rule by wearing tracksuits and there are not a load of the scruffy and overweight looking? Ok.

-Chris- · 27-01-2011 11:02am

ardle1 wrote: »

TIS SERIOUS STUFF,, let me throw some figures out there!! most drivers on a day shift (not including Dublin) would expect to earn between €70.00 and €100.,the rare occasion you would earn up to €140... a regular shift would be between 10hr and 12hr Now assuming they are working out of a base, and that would nearly be the case for most drivers,, now going with facts most base's charge between €100-€130 per week,,so lets say he does 5 shifts per week bout €25.00 per day for base rent and at least €15.00 diesel,,, now evening shifts you would expect(of course) to earn more,, not the case,, there is only 1 YES ONE,,,,, 1 good night every weekend and thats SAT,, you may think what about Fri and Sun,, of course there is a lot of people out and about those nights but that's when all the night drivers appear (that's ok) and suddenly everything balances out.. Plenty of drivers for plenty of people.. These are all facts (not fiction) I drive in Dundalk,, and I have spoken to drivers from the Largest operator in town (I dont drive for this company) they are all friends of mine,, this base has at least 50 drivers on it's books.. I spoke to them just to clarify things and their base and ours comes up with nearly exact data.

So what you're saying is on a 5 day week you might get 4 x €100 and 1 x €140. That's €540 for a 60 hour week.
Remove €125 for base costs and 5 x €15 for diesel.
That leaves €340 for you for a 60 hour week.
That's €5.66 per hour or €16,320 per annum based on a 48 week year.

If that's true, that's appalling. Stop driving, sell your car, get a different job.

On the other hand, many taxi drivers I spoke to have a home/mortgage, kids, a holiday during the year, possibly an investment home in Bulgaria or whenever. How are they earning so much more than you? What are they doing that you don't do?

27-01-2011 11:53am

-Chris- wrote: »

So what you're saying is on a 5 day week you might get 4 x €100 and 1 x €140. That's €540 for a 60 hour week.
Remove €125 for base costs and 5 x €15 for diesel.
That leaves €340 for you for a 60 hour week.
That's €5.66 per hour or €16,320 per annum based on a 48 week year.

If that's true, that's appalling.

Also there is nothing in those figures to cover insurance, maintenance etc, so the €340 for a 60 hour week won't be achieved

27-01-2011 11:56am

-Chris- wrote: »

On the other hand, many taxi drivers I spoke to have a home/mortgage, kids, a holiday during the year, possibly an investment home in Bulgaria or whenever. How are they earning so much more than you? What are they doing that you don't do?

Most folks I know who are serious about being taxi drivers have work off special needs schools etc bringing a student to and from school daily. Also no taxi driver will admit it on here but no way on earth is every fare through the metre.

-Chris- · 27-01-2011 11:57am

Very true, what other costs haven't been allowed for here?

Insurance
Maintenance
Tyres
Vehicle purchase/repayments
Motor tax
Vehicle testing & certification costs
Contingency for vehicle off-the-road
Cleaning
Accounting services for tax returns

Anything else?

-Chris- · 27-01-2011 11:59am

RoverJames wrote: »

Most folks I know who are serious about being taxi drivers have work off special needs schools etc bringing a student to and from school daily. Also no taxi driver will admit it on here but no way on earth is every fare through the metre.

I'm presuming every taxi driver is honest and tax-compliant, otherwise you can just throw all the sums out the window and call the Revenue.

Taxi - 9 year rule

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