Taxi - 9 year rule

ardle1

I Was VB wrote: »

Hang on, a taxi driver was plying for hire without a ID card. He got caught he pays the fine simple as that. What would of happend if the driver had a fare in the car and for what ever reason they wanted to complain about him and he had no ID??

Obey the rules and you'll be fine.

Yeah well everybody else we have spoken to about this particular incident, reckon more the case of (to put it mildly) over zealous inspector, you know if an environmental inspector goes into a restaurant and finds a dirty chopping board, he'll probably issue a warning, what I'm trying to say is, these guys are not Guardai or Custom officers, so maybe they should review their procedures and have a bit of tact and even a little bit of compassion. 10mins is all he needed.

ardle1

VolvoMan wrote: »

There's a taxi ('97 Carina E) that's been going around my area for the best part of two months and by the sounds of it has been in bad need of a set of spark plugs during that time. I was walking home from a night out on New Years morning and I could hear it from a mile away.

I can't help thinking that the likes of this guy, who is too stingy to spend twenty quid on a set of plugs, is responsible for the situation taxi drivers are in at present. If he can't justify that level of expenditure on keeping his car in roadworthy condition then I wonder what his attitude is towards his customers.

Definately doesn't help the situation, I know one thing for sure when a bar is caught we'll say selling watered down vodka or even northern drink, that particular pub is the one that is penalised, it shouldn't and doesn't effect any other pub.:rolleyes:

ardle1

I Was VB wrote: »

Hang on, a taxi driver was plying for hire without a ID card. He got caught he pays the fine simple as that. What would of happend if the driver had a fare in the car and for what ever reason they wanted to complain about him and he had no ID??

Obey the rules and you'll be fine.

Yeah well everybody else we have spoken to about this particular incident, reckon more the case of (to put it mildly) over zealous inspector, you know if an environmental inspector goes into a restaurant and finds a dirty chopping board, he'll probably issue a warning, what I'm trying to say is, these guys are not Guardai or Custom officers, so maybe they should review their procedures and have a bit of tact and even a little bit of compassion. 10mins is all he needed.

I Was VB

ardle1 wrote: »

Yeah well everybody else we have spoken to about this particular incident, reckon more the case of (to put it mildly) over zealous inspector, you know if an environmental inspector goes into a restaurant and finds a dirty chopping board, he'll probably issue a warning, what I'm trying to say is, these guys are not Guardai or Custom officers, so maybe they should review their procedures and have a bit of tact and even a little bit of compassion. 10mins is all he needed.

Look, it was bad luck that your mate forgot his ID, but whats to say he was operating for months without one, there's too much complacency in the taxi trade. There's a very bad case of 'penalise everyone but me'

Rules are there for a reason.

ardle1

steph1 wrote: »

Ardle if I were your colleague I would appeal this. At one stage I had two taxis and often had to hop from one to the other when I had another driver working for me. I am fully aware that the id must be displayed but for heaven's sake this case is just stupid. I always carry the smaller id in my wallet. Did your colleague have that id on him on the night.??
Most of my work here in a small town is by phone and nearly all the customers know me. So for committing a small breach like this the driver has to pay 250? I would tell him to write to the regulator's office and explain the position and also to get onto all his politicians and get them to write to the regulator and get this fine waived. 250 is a lot of money now for drivers especially those in rural areas some of who are taking in 30 and 40 a night if they are lucky bar Saturday night.
Anyway there should be an appeals procedure in place one area where the regulator fell down badly. Maybe now that the regulator is subsumed into the National Transport Authority they might look at the whole area of taxis and do something for the drivers. The customers have been well catered for with receipts, meters, fire safety kits and first aid kits (I've never used mine) massive big roof signs which are laughable when you see the smaller signs that are in use on taxis throughout the world, stickers with fare information in the front and back of the vehicle, stickers on the front and back of the windscreens of the car to show it is a taxi, the list is endless. And all of these things cost a lot of money to provide.

Your right Steph,, your views and comments "ONCE AGAIN" are what I would expect from anyone who heard this story, not just in the taxi industry, Pity he didn't appeal, he just didn't want the hassle.

ardle1

ardle1 wrote: »

Your right Steph,, your views and comments "ONCE AGAIN" are what I would expect from anyone who heard this story, not just in the taxi industry, Pity he didn't appeal, he just didn't want the hassle.

I think most people would expect him to be fined as per the regulations. I reckon the only people with views and comments to the contrary would be taxi drivers. It's pretty clear cut, is ID displayed ? Yes or No ? No, then you are fined. Lots of rules are like that, speeding, shop lifting, assault, breaking red lights etc etc. If you are caught you will more than likely be penalised.

steph1

Look, even sometimes gardai dont issue fines but give a warning depending on the situation. A bit of common sense is what's needed. I agree this is over zealous regulation. As a taxi driver myself I have on occasions forgotten my id but then again being a rural driver I know most of my customers. But I do have a second form of identification that all drivers must carry and that is an id card in the wallet - its the size of a credit card and if that driver had this in his possession that should have sufficed.
I am not saying that drivers should not have their id displayed as we are meant to but I think now that these enforcers are a bit over the top.
We have more rules and regulations that you would not believe. Some I find are petty and can result in 250 euro fines. For some drivers especially in rural areas that could mean most of their weeks takings!
All drivers are vetted by the Gardai in the first place before they are given a psv licence to drive a taxi or hackney but then again its like everything else in this country - duplication and regulation upon regulation. Once you have been vetted you are according to the Garda Siochana a fit and proper person to drive a taxi, hackney or limousine.
The takings of the TRs office went down big time as nobody bought new taxi licences at 6.300 euros but bought from drivers who had decided to exit the business and they would have gotten these licences for half the price. So I would safely say that these enforcers are sent out now to fine willy nilly for the simplest offence.
There is an awful lot that goes on in the taxi business that ordinary punters are not aware of and it is getting to drivers. What should be one of the simplest businesses to run - pick up, drop, get paid and move on - has become a nightmare.
We are self employed business men and women. We have come into this business with no help from any state organisation as we provide the vehicles and pay the costs of same. If things dont improve we will go back to a situation where people especially in large cities will be left waiting for hours on end for taxis as a lot of drivers will have no choice but to exit the business.
The way I see it now is that we are slowly but surely being regulated 'out of business' :mad:

mikemac

No ID? I suppose there is nothing he can do, you can't appeal against that

When I get in a taxi, I look for the yellow sticker in the top left of the back window.
I look for the ID and the correct starting rate on the meter.

If there is an issue like I'm doing a tour of the world I text myself with the ID and the numbers I can see. All useful for a complaint

Always ask for a receipt, even if the trip was perfect.

The nine year rule isn't perfect, there are excellent cars out there going to be taken off the road.
But I won't miss the 1993 Toyota Carina and other bangers out there.

steph1

From yahoo.com news

Ban on older taxis is overturned

A controversial scheme to rid the streets of taxis over nine years old has been revoked. Skip related content
Related photos / videos
Ban on older taxis is overturned
Enlarge photo .The National Transport Authority announced the U-turn on the seven-week rule for drivers who have had a taxi licence since before 2009.

But taxi unions warned it was too late for hundreds of drivers who, already struggling to make a living, were put off the road when the regulation came into force in the new year.

Tony Rowe, of the National Transport Assembly of Ireland, said the rule affected a lot of drivers whose cars were in pristine condition.

"The pivotal concern of any transport authority has to be the safety of the travelling public and drivers and this nine-year rule was meaningless," he said.

"Each taxi already underwent a stringent NCT and SGS (taxi suitability test) and those cars passed those tests regardless of their year. We are hoping those drivers will now be able to get back to work."

The NTA board, which took over taxi regulation on January 1, said it would revoke the rule while it carries out a review on vehicle standards in the taxi industry and holds consultations.

Transport Minister Pat Carey welcomed the decision and maintained Fianna Fail would support the taxi industry if re-elected, while Fine Gael's Simon Coveney claimed the last minute U-turn on taxis was a desperate vote-grabbing attempt.

Elsewhere Labour's Joe Costello called for the NTA to review the whole taxi industry and other controversial measures being implemented, while Green Party TD Trevor Sargeant said he had lobbied the taxi regulator to change the rule on a number of occasions.

-Chris-

Jesus, how is that fair???

Doing a U-turn AFTER drivers have already been forced to change their cars puts them at an instant financial disadvantage.

Wow.

CabanasBoy

RoverJames wrote: »

reckon the only people with views and comments to the contrary would be taxi drivers.

The vast majority of taxi drivers would expect him to be fined. Leaving the house without your ID is akin to leaving the house with no trousers on, you just don't do it. As a taxi driver you are obliged to carry your regular driving licence, your PSV licence and your ID at all times (not just when you're working), mine sit beside my car keys when at home and therefore I can't "forget" them. I did come across a driver once who forgot his roofsign and rather than go home for it, he just worked the radio for the day:rolleyes:. It's just laziness and a complete lack of professionalism on the part of the driver not to have all his documentation. Would you get into your car without your driving licence? I somehow doubt it.

Re: overturning of 9 yr rule, FFS! This, and the other regs was a little bit of light at the end of the tunnel for the decent, full time drivers who take the job seriously (we looked forward to seeing the older cars leave the roads). This is a serious mistake by dept to go back on this.

ardle1

CabanasBoy wrote: »

The vast majority of taxi drivers would expect him to be fined. Leaving the house without your ID is akin to leaving the house with no trousers on, you just don't do it. As a taxi driver you are obliged to carry your regular driving licence, your PSV licence and your ID at all times (not just when you're working), mine sit beside my car keys when at home and therefore I can't "forget" them. I did come across a driver once who forgot his roofsign and rather than go home for it, he just worked the radio for the day:rolleyes:. It's just laziness and a complete lack of professionalism on the part of the driver not to have all his documentation. Would you get into your car without your driving licence? I somehow doubt it.

Re: overturning of 9 yr rule, FFS! This, and the other regs was a little bit of light at the end of the tunnel for the decent, full time drivers who take the job seriously (we looked forward to seeing the older cars leave the roads). This is a serious mistake by dept to go back on this.

No no sorry,, he didn't actually leave the house without his I.D,, that's a complete no no for any driver I know. He was swapping from one vehicle to another,, and then back into the taxi,, the minibus was actually about 10min's away,, just thought the inspectors actions where a bit HARSH. :cool:

Esel

That completely unexpected, dangerous and unsignalled U-turn epitomises the word 'Taxi' for me.

If it's not a wind-up, and I hope it is.

ardle1

Esel wrote: »

That completely unexpected, dangerous and unsignalled U-turn epitomises the word 'Taxi' for me.

If it's not a wind-up, and I hope it is.

Ah dont worry,, try living with what you think is a wind up for a few years,, it's fantastic news and it's not a wind up.:D

Spook_ie

ardle1 wrote: »

Ah dont worry,, try living with what you think is a wind up for a few years,, it's fantastic news and it's not a wind up.:D

It's not fantastic news, it just means that we're all in limbo AGAIN for the next couple of years, what way is that to be able to plan and run a business

CabanasBoy

Spook_ie wrote: »

It's not fantastic news, it just means that we're all in limbo AGAIN for the next couple of years, what way is that to be able to plan and run a business

Yep, and as the TR has now been absorbed into the NTA, there's yet another layer of bureaucratic nonsense where they can shift blame around and continue to baffle and bamboozle the rest of us.

Damien360

Can I just ask all the taxi drivers with some pride in the cars they have, please allow the customer choose any car in the rank and not the first heap of rubbish that is there.

It has happened on a few occasions when I have tried to side step the crappy carina E for a cleaner and newer taxi. The driver would just point to the first one in the rank and expect me to take that one.

The simple premise is "if I am going to pay the same money for the same journey, then damned if I am travelling in a heap of crap that is also not as safe". The safety is in relation to NCAP ratings for cars and very hard to argue with. Could be a marketing oppurtunity for car dealers and advertising revenue for taxis if NCAP rating on the side of the newer cars with commitment to keep car in good condition. That might be pushing the boat out a bit !

If every customer could do this without any moaning from taxi driver and encouragement from taxi drivers who gets the fare, then it would force a 9 year rule of sorts on the taxi service. It would cut the numbers of part timers quickly.

If this thread is anything to go by, then the full time drivers tend to keep better cars because they spend so much time in their mobile office. How about taking charge of your own service instead of getting rules heaped on ye when you refuse to accept reasonable changes for the better. As an example : licensing was opened up as a free for all because service not provided when required at peak times for customers and it has not been a good change in terms of who got those licenses (every tom, dick and harry)

neris

Theres a 20 odd year old Volvo taxi at Northside shopping centre and it looks like a complete **** box. There should be some age rule so cars like that arent allowed to operate.

I Was VB

neris wrote: »

Theres a 20 odd year old Volvo taxi at Northside shopping centre and it looks like a complete **** box. There should be some age rule so cars like that arent allowed to operate.

There used to be two of them both silver, good thing is that one is still on the road. Other chap went out and bought a lesser VW Passat.

Spook_ie

Spook_ie wrote: »

The NCT doesn't test safety, it tests roadworthiness

<snipped for clarity>

The NCAP ratings for a 1998 Series 5 is the same as a 2004 one at 4*, the e220 2002 had a 5* rating, so when they get to be 9 years old are they suddenly going to become 2 or 3 * ratings? The chrysler voyager 2007 ( which is acceptable as a taxi) has a paltry 1 and a half * so lets not lose sight of the fact that the 9 year rule IS NOT about safety

Damien360 wrote: »

Can I just ask all the taxi drivers with some pride in the cars they have, please allow the customer choose any car in the rank and not the first heap of rubbish that is there.

It has happened on a few occasions when I have tried to side step the crappy carina E for a cleaner and newer taxi. The driver would just point to the first one in the rank and expect me to take that one.

The simple premise is "if I am going to pay the same money for the same journey, then damned if I am travelling in a heap of crap that is also not as safe". The safety is in relation to NCAP ratings for cars and very hard to argue with. Could be a marketing oppurtunity for car dealers and advertising revenue for taxis if NCAP rating on the side of the newer cars with commitment to keep car in good condition. That might be pushing the boat out a bit !

If every customer could do this without any moaning from taxi driver and encouragement from taxi drivers who gets the fare, then it would force a 9 year rule of sorts on the taxi service. It would cut the numbers of part timers quickly.

If this thread is anything to go by, then the full time drivers tend to keep better cars because they spend so much time in their mobile office. How about taking charge of your own service instead of getting rules heaped on ye when you refuse to accept reasonable changes for the better. As an example : licensing was opened up as a free for all because service not provided when required at peak times for customers and it has not been a good change in terms of who got those licenses (every tom, dick and harry)

I thought we'd put the safety aspect of this to bed a long time ago, the 9 year rule was not about safety, if you want to refer it to snobbery then you are more likey to be on the right path, however, if you want to choose the taxi then the taxi ( driver ) IMO should be able to pick the fare as well

Spook_ie

Spook_ie wrote: »

The NCT doesn't test safety, it tests roadworthiness

<snipped for clarity>

The NCAP ratings for a 1998 Series 5 is the same as a 2004 one at 4*, the e220 2002 had a 5* rating, so when they get to be 9 years old are they suddenly going to become 2 or 3 * ratings? The chrysler voyager 2007 ( which is acceptable as a taxi) has a paltry 1 and a half * so lets not lose sight of the fact that the 9 year rule IS NOT about safety

Damien360 wrote: »

Can I just ask all the taxi drivers with some pride in the cars they have, please allow the customer choose any car in the rank and not the first heap of rubbish that is there.

It has happened on a few occasions when I have tried to side step the crappy carina E for a cleaner and newer taxi. The driver would just point to the first one in the rank and expect me to take that one.

The simple premise is "if I am going to pay the same money for the same journey, then damned if I am travelling in a heap of crap that is also not as safe". The safety is in relation to NCAP ratings for cars and very hard to argue with. Could be a marketing oppurtunity for car dealers and advertising revenue for taxis if NCAP rating on the side of the newer cars with commitment to keep car in good condition. That might be pushing the boat out a bit !

If every customer could do this without any moaning from taxi driver and encouragement from taxi drivers who gets the fare, then it would force a 9 year rule of sorts on the taxi service. It would cut the numbers of part timers quickly.

If this thread is anything to go by, then the full time drivers tend to keep better cars because they spend so much time in their mobile office. How about taking charge of your own service instead of getting rules heaped on ye when you refuse to accept reasonable changes for the better. As an example : licensing was opened up as a free for all because service not provided when required at peak times for customers and it has not been a good change in terms of who got those licenses (every tom, dick and harry)

I thought we'd put the safety aspect of this to bed a long time ago, the 9 year rule was not about safety, if you want to refer it to snobbery then you are more likey to be on the right path, however, if you want to choose the taxi then the taxi ( driver ) IMO should be able to pick the fare as well
After all why should I have to keep getting the short €6 fare just because you want to walk past the 1st taxi in the Q to get into mine

Esel

Spook_ie wrote: »

After all why should I have to keep getting the short €6 fare just because you want to walk past the 1st taxi in the Q to get into mine

Why do you think it's going to be a short fare?

Spook_ie

Experience and if you walk past the 1st car or two and get into mine and give a destination thats a short fare why shouldn't I send you to back the 1st car,

murphyebass

Spook_ie wrote: »

Experience and if you walk past the 1st car or two and get into mine and give a destination thats a short fare why shouldn't I send you to back the 1st car,

That is pure BS.

This is the reason that people dont generally walk past the first car because of taxi drivers intimidation.

I can completely understand a taxi driver not taking a fare if someone is drunk for example but to not take someone based on a short fare, what the hell?!

This should not be allowed. A client should have the right to pick a half decent car and the driver should have to take whatever he/she is given.

And I dont take the arguement for one minute that they would rather wait to be top car in the que cause it means they might get a longer fare. Sure the one at the top of the que could be a shorter trip or you could pick up another fare at the end of your "short trip."

Taxi people shouldnt be picky. There BILLIONS (according to taxi people) of taxi's on the roads these days.

At this stage I'd haggle with a taxi for a fair home due to rediculous charges on fares plus I know theres billions of them out there. Supply and demand and all that. You'll always find one thats more than happy to take the fare.

-Chris-

Spook_ie wrote: »

Experience and if you walk past the 1st car or two and get into mine and give a destination thats a short fare why shouldn't I send you to back the 1st car,

Slightly OT, but I always thought that once you sat into a Taxi that they had an obligation to take you - i.e. they couldn't ask you to leave if they didn't like the destination.

-Chris-

-Chris- wrote: »

Slightly OT, but I always thought that once you sat into a Taxi that they had an obligation to take you - i.e. they couldn't ask you to leave if they didn't like the destination.

Very true, lots of taxi folk would want to refresh themselves with what they have undertaken.

Alan70

If said journey is less than thirty kilometres

CabanasBoy

Alan70 wrote: »

If said journey is less than thirty kilometres

Or if driver believes the person to be under the influence of drink or drugs which kind of gives the driver the right to refuse anybody;)

Spook_ie

There we go again, you want yer cake and eat it, if you can choose whichever taxi you want then it's only right that a taxi driver should be able to pick whichever fare he wants

murphyebass

Spook_ie wrote: »

There we go again, you want yer cake and eat it, if you can choose whichever taxi you want then it's only right that a taxi driver should be able to pick whichever fare he wants

No. Just no.

A punter should absolutely have the right to choose the taxi. No matter how short the trip is.

A Taxi person imo should not have the right to choose a punter other than the obvious alcohol, drugs, etc because at the end of the day a fares a fare.

As I have already said earlier in this thread...

You will not necessarily get a larger fare by waiting. You could be waiting for an hour for example in said que when it would have been better utilised taking said fair and maybe pickin up another on the way back to the que.

IMO its the taxi people being picky. And when you have as many of ye out there I really dont get the reason why. :rolleyes:


EDIT... Just saw someone posted that its 30km as the shortest trip that they can refuse. Sure thats not short at all. Why would they decline a run of that distance??!