Proposals - should he ask permission?

convert · 10-01-2011 4:52pm #1

I've just been listening to a certain radio station on which marriage proposals were being discussed, and this question came up.

It seems from those who texted/emailed into the show, the majority, if not all, said that the guy had asked permission from the father before proposing to the girl.

I'm just wondering what's the general consensus on this (or is there one?) On one had, I think it's actually quite a nice thing to do, and maintains tradition, etc., but on the other hand, I don't think I'd like my parents knowing that my OH was going to propose, nor would I like the fact that he'd have to seek permission/approval for my hand in marriage.

Morgase · 10-01-2011 5:01pm

For me, it would be an absolute no-no and would show that the man in question doesn't know me at all. It would make me feel as if I was property being handed over from a patriach to another man.

neveah · 10-01-2011 5:07pm

I agree with Morgase, I don't think my future fiance should ask my father's permission, at the end of the day it doesn't matter what he says, all that matters is what I say!

I wouldn't find this romantic or necessary at all!

Stench Blossoms · 10-01-2011 5:09pm

I can't imagine anyone being brave enough to ask my dad that without getting some sort of abuse in return.

Cathmandooo · 10-01-2011 5:12pm

He shouldn't 'have' to no. While personally I'd prefer to be able to announce the news to my dad myself, and plus my dad can't keep a secret to save his life

While that would be my preference I wouldn't for a second be angry over it if 'permission' was sought first, if it happened it would be a happy occasion anyway.

I also think 'permission' is too harsh a word, I'd consider it more of a request for the father's blessing and that it'll be done anyway even if he doesn't approve. At the end of the day it's the decision of the couple involved.

pickarooney · 10-01-2011 5:12pm

Is the guy supposed to ask this before he asks the girl or afterwards, as a formality?

Morlar · 10-01-2011 5:17pm

I think fathers and daughters are a grey area for most guys where you just naturally want to tread carefully. So maybe it would be more of an advance notice kind of a thing than a 'request for permission'. What are you supposed to do if the answer is no anyway ?

helimachoptor · 10-01-2011 5:20pm

Theres no need, but honestly i think a lot of girls like it. I'll ask my OH's dad only cos my GF would like me to, otherwise i wouldnt bother. I dont feel obliged to do it.

seamus · 10-01-2011 5:29pm

pickarooney wrote: »

Is the guy supposed to ask this before he asks the girl or afterwards, as a formality?

Traditionally, the guy was supposed to ask the father for permission, and couldn't proceed without approval.

It harks back to the days when it was effectively a contract between the father & suitor and the girl would rarely be asked, it would instead be announced in her presence.

When the notion of dowries disappeared, it still remained customary, nay required to seek the father's approval as he was seen to have authority above the women in his family. A man & a woman who married without the father's consent would likely be outcast from the family and never spoken to again.

I don't think it's been much more than a tradition for about 50 years now though - no father would say no, really. Unless he's a spiteful prick.

I knew my wife didn't like the idea of "permission", but did like the idea of asking her parents for their "blessing" before proceeding, tradition and all that. In the end, I didn't ask them because my plan was to do it on holiday, but I didn't know exactly when on holiday I would do it and I knew my MIL wouldn't be able to keep it a secret for more than 48 hours without exploding. In the end I asked her, then I called her parents separately afterwards to ask for their blessing.

daenerysstormborn3 · 10-01-2011 5:34pm

If it was important to my Dad I would like my boyfriend to do so. If it was important to my boyfriend I would have no problem with him doing so. It is important to neither my Dad nor my boyfriend so no problem here. Asking "permission to marry your daughter" is different to asking both parents for their "blessing" though, again, not something needed here.

panda100 · 10-01-2011 5:42pm

Morgase wrote: »

For me, it would be an absolute no-no and would show that the man in question doesn't know me at all. It would make me feel as if I was property being handed over from a patriach to another man.

+1
It's an awful 'tradition' and I would be incredibly insulted If my fiancée did this. Though there is no way in hell he would If he knew me at all.

pow wow · 10-01-2011 5:58pm

Wouldn't be insulted (I don't get the impression of a change of ownership from it!) but it does sort of give me the creeps for some reason...

yizorselves · 10-01-2011 6:12pm

I think that tradition has died out. To be honest I cant imagine any men I know that are married that have done it. Who cares if Daddy approves?

Its all a bit Father of the Bride-ish and rom coms like that. What if Daddy says "No, you do not have my approval!"

Oh well, Imma do it anyway pops! Get your chequebook ready

Jemmy · 10-01-2011 6:24pm

For me it would be a no no, I'd prefer to be breaking the news to my family myself bcoz I don't think my dad could keep it to himself til I told everyone! I can understand why some ppl might want to be traditional tho, I did think I'd like it before.

aujopimur · 10-01-2011 6:28pm

I have 4 girls, 2 of the boyfriends did'nt say anything, the other 2 told me of their intentions, while it did'nt make a lot of difference I thought it was nice to be taken into their confidence.

Swampy · 10-01-2011 6:31pm

In fairness you should know your fiancee well enough to know if they would like it or not.

Ickle Magoo · 10-01-2011 6:59pm

I don't think the it's a question of "should" - no.

If he wants to/the father would like it/the bride to be would like it are the only reasons worth considering - I don't think it's a matter of "should" do anything in relation to engagements or wedding these days...it just depends on how traditional the people involved want it to be.

Novella · 10-01-2011 6:59pm

Personally, I'd like it. I'm quite close to my dad, and I think he'd be very emotional if I was to get married. More for him, than for me, I'd like him to be included from the very beginning.

Silverfish · 10-01-2011 7:05pm

Swampy wrote: »

In fairness you should know your fiancee well enough to know if they would like it or not.

I think this is what it comes down to. We can all should and would and could but it does come down to the couple themselves. Some would like it and some would not.

10-01-2011 7:08pm

Yeah it depends on the people themselves. Some people think it's sweet and lovely and traditional and some people like myself would hate it and be insulted.

Silverfish · 10-01-2011 7:12pm

bluewolf wrote: »

Yeah it depends on the people themselves. Some people think it's sweet and lovely and traditional and some people like myself would hate it and be insulted.

Or indeed if it is done, it's viewed as done more for the parents rather than the actual permission-seeking, if they'd like it and it makes them happier, then you do it for the same reason that you go sit in mass on Xmas day or whatever - it's not something you want to do, but you want them to feel included and happy so you do it anyway.

That said my OH didn't ask my dad's permission, and my dad was a bit put out, and has been narky about it since.
Woops, eh?

10-01-2011 7:14pm

Silverfish wrote: »

Or indeed if it is done, it's viewed as done more for the parents rather than the actual permission-seeking, if they'd like it and it makes them happier, then you do it for the same reason that you go sit in mass on Xmas day or whatever - it's not something you want to do, but you want them to feel included and happy so you do it anyway.

No I don't :pac:
Ah no I get your point that it's not real permission seeking, I'd just hate it
not that it could apply for me, would be asking my mum
that'd be funny, she'd probably yell at him

That said my OH didn't ask my dad's permission, and my dad was a bit put out, and has been narky about it since.
Woops, eh?

Madame Razz · 10-01-2011 7:24pm

My 'fiance'(god I detest that word:p) asked my father, purely because my father is in his sixties, and rather old fashioned, and would have been quite insulted had he not. It was really more a gesture than anything else. I think, if the father is of an older generation like mine is, they do see it as being quite respectful, and from the guys point of view, it's best to get off to a good start if you're marrying the man's daughter, and hence will be seeing a lot of them(most likely/all going well) for the rest of your days:p

Fluorescence · 10-01-2011 7:58pm

As always, Mr. O Briain says it best :P. I can't find the sketch on youtube at the minute, but it's the one where he says he'd set tasks to anyone asking his permission to marry his daughter :pac:.

I agree with the posters who said they'd be insulted. I don't have much time for traditions, especially one's like these that have no place in today's world. If two independant people want to get married, then they do that. They don't go seeking approval or permission from their parents, as if they were still children

WesternNight · 10-01-2011 8:18pm

Not necessary and not desired in my case. If my future fiancé were to ask anyone's permission (aside from mine) I'd prefer it to be my mother's.

krudler · 10-01-2011 8:31pm

I'd like to think most women would want their future husband to be man enough to decide he wants to ask the woman he loves to marry him first, and not rely on permission from someone else.

Novella · 10-01-2011 8:44pm

krudler wrote: »

I'd like to think most women would want their future husband to be man enough to decide he wants to ask the woman he loves to marry him first, and not rely on permission from someone else.

Tbh, it has nothing to do with "being man enough". I wouldn't want my dad to be asked for his permission, maybe more so for his blessing. I just know it is something that my dad would appreciate and therefore, it'd make me happy that my future husband had thought of that, that's all really.

Up-n-atom! · 10-01-2011 8:49pm

I do think it's more than slightly patronising but I also know that if I was ever in such a position that my Dad would quite liked to be asked for his blessing - maybe 'permission' would be talking it a bit far though...

FouxDaFaFa · 10-01-2011 8:56pm

It's the kind of thing that I would hate. I would like to be the first person consulted about my own marriage and cannot help but liken it to the trading of cattle.

psycho-hope · 10-01-2011 9:00pm

well mum raised me on her own so if he was going to ask anyone would have to be her. Tho known my mum she would laugh, say good luck and why the hell are ya asking me, im not the one who is going to spend the rest of there life with you:rolleyes:. Mum has never been one to mince her words:D

fatmammycat · 10-01-2011 9:03pm

No, absolutely no. Ask me, sure, ask someone else? No way, unless he wants to marry them, then he can ask away.

dammitjanet · 10-01-2011 9:03pm

I think it varies case to case.

I'm incredibly close with my dad (and also his youngest out of 3 girls). Me and my OH have spoke about when we get married- he'd ask me first and then we'd go straight out to my dad, he'd go in and ask him his permission, and then we'd all celebrate together. It's about making my dad feel involved and it's important to me too. It's our take on the tradition

But to each their own

krudler · 10-01-2011 9:12pm

dammitjanet wrote: »

I think it varies case to case.

I'm incredibly close with my dad (and also his youngest out of 3 girls). Me and my OH have spoke about when we get married- he'd ask me first and then we'd go straight out to my dad, he'd go in and ask him his permission, and then we'd all celebrate together. It's about making my dad feel involved and it's important to me too. It's our take on the tradition

But to each their own

What if your dad then said no? be a bit awkward lol

djk1000 · 10-01-2011 9:15pm

This asking permission business goes back to a time when women were seen as property, the brides dad and the groom agreed the terms of the contract including how much the dowry was going to be.

Harmless tradition now I suppose, but that's where it comes from!

mikemac · 10-01-2011 9:18pm

It's not realy asking permission, more asking for his blessing.

Harmless and it shows respect
Far too much outrage in this thread

10-01-2011 9:23pm

feelingstressed wrote: »

It's not realy asking permission, more asking for his blessing.

Harmless and it shows respect
Far too much outrage in this thread

Well no, I think it shows disrespect actually

and that's why there'll never be one answer to this question

redz11 · 10-01-2011 9:33pm

I would've been pretty disgusted, really, if my fiancé had asked for my father's permission before getting married. And if he had asked for his "blessing", or even discussed the matter with him, I'm have been quite disappointed and annoyed.

I'm an adult, and I make my own decisions. My relationship is between my fiancé and I. We had often discussed marriage before we got engaged, but it was still a surprise when he proposed. Imagine getting engaged, getting all excited about telling everyone the big news - and then finding out that your own parents, probably the most important people to be told, already knew all about it?

I don't think that my father would have been all that impressed either. He likes my fiancé, but at the end of the day my dad is not the interfering or over-protective type, at all. He wouldn't have known what to say really, I think - because, as far as he would've been concerned, it wouldn't really have been his place to offer an opinion (let alone "permission") without discussing it with me first.

I know every situation is different, but it's certainly not something that I'd appreciate.

Lynnsie · 10-01-2011 9:39pm

It does vary depending on both the couple and the father. I know lots of people who have asked permission and I would never criticise them or look down on them for doing it. But if it was me, I'd prefer if he didn't ask.

I don't see why someone else should be involved in a very personal decision of mine. It's not an issue for me cos my Dad died a few years back but I think he would have been a bit offended on my behalf, he raised me to be very independent and I think he would have been quick to (nicely)tell the guy that it had nothing to do with him.

SheRa · 10-01-2011 10:20pm

Id hate it.

Firstly my dad would know before me (and would prob tell my mam asap) and secondly Im my own person, I dont need anyones permission to do something and wouldnt want the OH to feel that he "needed" to ask.

Catari Jaguar · 10-01-2011 10:27pm

Eugh this topic has been done to death. Search function --->

Anyways, my fiance and I decided together to get engaged so there was no popping of the question.I want to marry him so I wasn't gonna sit around waiting and wishing.

The women in my family background are all independent and pro women's rights etc. My fiance knows I'd be very pissed off if he asked my Dad. My Dad doesn't own me so he said he didn't want to be asked anyway.

When we announced it my Dad was all pissy and "Ohh..Sure what you consult me for?" Um, what would I consult you for? You're lucky we even told you. It's not really your business.

kerryman12 · 10-01-2011 10:35pm

I though about it once or twice, but then I realised it wasnt the 19th century anymore, so I better ask the only person that matters!

She said yes by the way :cool:

Deedsie · 10-01-2011 11:10pm

All my forebears asked, that resulted in me. I'll be asking, just gots to find a lady who'll have me. If she had a problem with me asking her Father's blessing on the marriage I don't think we would be that well suited anyway. I like old traditions, and I think that's a thing every man should experience from both ends of the conservation...

KiLLeR CoUCh · 11-01-2011 12:26am

Hmmm, I'll go against the grain here. I'd actually be a little sad if my OH proposed to me with out mentioning it to my Dad first. I adore my Dad, he's a very quiet, unassuming man and i'd just love him involved right from the start.

That said, "asking permission" is a funny way of phrasing it these days, "blessing" is way more appropriate. I also can't see myself being with somebody my Dad would actively object to so it's the gesture of it above anything else.

EverEvolving · 11-01-2011 2:03am

fluorescence wrote: »

As always, Mr. O Briain says it best :P. I can't find the sketch on youtube at the minute, but it's the one where he says he'd set tasks to anyone asking his permission to marry his daughter :pac:.

I had a look there too and couldn't find it, it's very good, something like ... "Why are you asking me for permission? She hasn't asked for my permission for anything in years....... I'd set the fu*ker tasks, he'd be gathering a golden fleece by the end of it"

If my boyfriend asked my dad for his permission/blessing he would get slagged til kingdom come from my dad, it would be hilarious!

My dad would never expect it and I would definately like to be the one to break the news to them and not have them knowing already.

whatsamsn · 11-01-2011 2:22am

Not in this day and age

Sure if people still think thats the way it should be then why dont we also bring back giving 1 pig and 2 chickens to the father as well

illiop · 11-01-2011 12:25pm

I'd hate that and it would just prove that he didn't know me very well. If he told my Dad because he wanted advice then that would be fine but We'd both be adults and therefore not need someone else's permission to do whatever we want.

I don't like the tradition personally, but I really don't see that much harm in it as long as it's not taken seriously.

Malari · 11-01-2011 1:33pm

I'd be annoyed if he asked my father without my permission. I'd also be annoyed if he asked ME without my permission though!

I know my boyfriend knows me enough to realise I wouldn't like a proposal of marriage to come as a surprise. If we decide to get married it'll be a joint decision.

For some people I can see the attraction of the traditional "talk to the father" route but it's not for me.

pickarooney · 11-01-2011 1:39pm

Maybe it could be seen as a sort of "Do you mind spending 20 grand on a party for us?" before organising a big hooley. Doesn't the father of the bride traditionally have to splash out for that?

11-01-2011 1:46pm

pickarooney wrote: »

Maybe it could be seen as a sort of "Do you mind spending 20 grand on a party for us?" before organising a big hooley. Doesn't the father of the bride traditionally have to splash out for that?

I can't imagine asking my mum to pay for a party for me!

I think/hope that people getting married these days pay for it themselves...

Malari · 11-01-2011 1:55pm

pickarooney wrote: »

Maybe it could be seen as a sort of "Do you mind spending 20 grand on a party for us?" before organising a big hooley. Doesn't the father of the bride traditionally have to splash out for that?

The only bride I know whose father paid for the wedding (or a large proportion of it) wanted to organise a party for himself, with a lot of input into venue, music, flowers, food and photos. Oh and guests. :rolleyes:

convert · 11-01-2011 2:11pm

I suppose my original phrasing of 'permission' is a little misleading; as other posters have suggested, I think blessing would probably be a better word. I was quite tired when I started this thread, and literally went with the first word that came into my head!

As someone who is independent, I wouldn't like my OH to ask my father before he asked me ('tho I don't think I have to worry as I know he wouldn't do that, anyway!), but I know my Dad would like to be asked.

So how would one balance the two extremes and find something to keep both sides happy. Should the couple ask for the father of the bride's blessing after the proposal, or should parents, no matter how old fashioned, realise that things have changed hugely over the last generation or two, and not expect future sons-in-law to ask for their blessing?

Proposals - should he ask permission?

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