Saorview Content Speculation

watty · 17-11-2010 01:14AM

I dare say they will remove more TV spectrum. Selling it is more attractive than payTV mux that no-one can make money from.

PSB really needs a 3rd. I don't beleive they had really considered HD in assigning only two. At least with failure of payDTT, the Post ASO PSB 2nd mux is brought forward to now, maybe on all existing sites by Mid 2011 or so.

17-11-2010 01:20AM

watty wrote: »

I dare say they will remove more TV spectrum. Selling it is more attractive than payTV mux that no-one can make money from.

PSB really needs a 3rd. I don't beleive they had really considered HD in assigning only two. At least with failure of payDTT, the Post ASO PSB 2nd mux is brought forward to now, maybe on all existing sites by Mid 2011 or so.

what would that specific spectrum be useful for if sold off? LTE? Wireless internet (if so what technology works along those frequecies?) Or would we be better off holding onto that digital devide for more public services whether it be TV and/or radio or possibly other uses?

The Cush · 17-11-2010 01:42AM

watty wrote: »

I dare say they will remove more TV spectrum. Selling it is more attractive than payTV mux that no-one can make money from.

"Digital Dividend 2" (700 MHz band).

Certain European countries are beginning to discuss it because the upper band is is not available to them.

The Cush · 17-11-2010 01:46AM

warlikedave wrote: »

what would that specific spectrum be useful for if sold off? LTE? Wireless internet (if so what technology works along those frequecies?) Or would we be better off holding onto that digital devide for more public services whether it be TV and/or radio or possibly other uses?

Comreg's plan for the released spectrum - http://www.comreg.ie/publications/800_mhz__900_mhz_and_1800_mhz_spectrum_release.597.103695.p.html

watty · 17-11-2010 10:29AM

warlikedave wrote: »

what would that specific spectrum be useful for if sold off? LTE? Wireless internet (if so what technology works along those frequecies?) Or would we be better off holding onto that digital devide for more public services whether it be TV and/or radio or possibly other uses?

Mobile:
LTE, Mobile WiMax, EVDO, GSM, Foma, 3G, FlashOFDM. Only LTE is Likely. All are only specific parts of band.

Fixed (gives x8 performance/capacity in same channel size):
Motorola Canopy, Fixed WiMax, WiDox (DOCSIS over Wireless, UPC broadband with no coax), LTE using ONLY outdoor Aerial. Only WiDox is Cheap and good performance and able to use any 8MHz Channel, Able to work in TV band. WiMax is different size channels and only specific parts of band.

It would make most sense to pair the 800MHz with the 872MHz to 960MHz band that has GSM. You'd get double performance.

There is also so called "White Space" Wireless Hubs/Internet that use low power inside the DTT band, on channels that can't be used locally for TV TX. FCC is closer to release of a spec. But Ofcom in UK is consulting, and if one EU regulator and US does it, eBay means we all need to do it. Most Communications and Broadcast Engineers think it's a bad idea, at least they have abandoned the doomed "auto sense" idea. Google has of course offered to run the USA database, FREE. Because every device must have a GPS and report position regularly. Of course Google wants to use the location information. Like the WiFi Drive on Street view, Chrome and Android all reporting to "Chocolate Factory" where you are to target adverts better.

Dons Tin foil hat, un-installs Chrome and gives away Android phone... Hmmm Bing? MS isn't evil, only greedy. In their wildest dreams MS never imagined the Control Freakery of Apple or the Information Sucking of Google

Antenna · 17-11-2010 10:34AM

watty wrote: »

There is also so called "White Space" Wireless Hubs/Internet that use low power inside the DTT band, on channels that can't be used locally for TV TX. FCC is closer to release of a spec. But Ofcom in UK is consulting, and if one EU regulator and US does it, eBay means we all need to do it.

'White Space' use here would be bad news for viewers of UK Freeview in the republic. Freeview will not be protected from whitespace interference outside its intended area.

Elmo · 17-11-2010 12:59PM

icdg wrote: »

Feel free to speculate on what content will be on the free-to-air digital terrestrial television platform, which the powers that be have stupidly decided to name "Saorview" (thus leaving anyone that doesn't speak Irish confused as to what "Saor" means and leaving those that DO speak Irish annoyed that it wasn't called "Saorfeach". But that's neither hear nor there).

I'll start the ball rolling by predicting that there will be no additional TV channels other than RTÉ News Now, at least initially.

This thread started on 6th June. I am assuming this is around the time of the Dail Comittee meeting in which Conor Hayes suggested in a very roundabout way what channel RTÉ Might launch, this comes 4 months after the Minister signed the SI stating that Saorview would be operational and available to 90% of the population. It then took RTÉ another 5 months to provide the Department and the BAI with a list of channels it proposes for a full launch of Soarview sometime in Spring 2010 (at least another 5 months away at most 7 months). The Department then announces a public consultation which will last until 10 Dec 10, meaning they are going to have to sift through all of those responses and on top of this the BAI has to carry out a Sectoral Impact Analyses on the new channels, how long will that take? once both of these things are finished the Minister makes his decision (if he is lucky enough to do that). Now I think these are important processes to go through but its like there is no rush about them. And after all of this the new channels are: -

RTÉ Two HD Select (not a new channel just a new format in a manner similar to RTÉ Colour (I know I am going to be shot down for stating that

)
RTÉ Junior (not a new channel just a simulcast and repeat of the last six hours of RTÉjr on RTÉ TWO)
RTÉ + (not a new channel just a 1 hour delay of RTÉ 1 from 7pm).
RTÉ Aertel Digital (RTÉ Aertel in Digital)

So in conclusion we are wasting another 10 months on repeats which really should have been part of a trail 10 months ago, and which should be now on air as part of the initial role out of DTT. Again I don't expect these channels to be available in a few years time, I expect that RTÉ Two will be RTÉ Two HD in full.

So a process for 4 non-new-channels :mad:

Also in relation to the Irish name and perhaps I am wrong but I think SaorFeach would be a mis-translation of FreeView. View can be translated as Radharc (as in the old Documentry series), Aisling (as in the girls name) or Fís (as in teilifís). Feach is the verb to look. (FreeLook) SoarFís would have been good in terms of puns in Irish as it sounds like seirbhís (or Service). Also sorry if someone else picked up on this. Also you would think we lived in a country where most of the Semistate bodies aren't named As Gealige BSÉ, TnaG, Bord Na Mona, Bord gCon, RTÉ, Bord Gais etc etc. or in a world were most company names don't mean anything or are taken from other languages Xerox, Nike, Cuise De France, FCUK, Reebox, Chanel etc. (But that just proves your point that it is neither here nor there).

d.a.r.r.a.g.h · 17-11-2010 02:39PM

Elmo wrote: »

Also you would think we lived in a country where most of the Semistate bodies aren't named As Gealige BSÉ, TnaG, Bord Na Mona, Bord gCon, RTÉ, Bord Gais etc etc. or in a world were most company names don't mean anything or are taken from other languages Xerox, Nike, Cuise De France, FCUK, Reebox, Chanel etc. (But that just proves your point that it is neither here nor there).

I would disagree with you on that. We also do have a significant amount of semisatates under English names, Irish Rail, ESB, BAI, HSE etc. You're just picking the Irish ones to suit yourself, in my opinion. The fact is that the diversity in the population of Ireland means that we have to be able to sell and market this service in a way that people will actually know what it is. I believe the present name "Saorview" is perfect, as, even though it is partly in Irish, it has an essence of implication that it is to do with your telly while still keeping with our National Heritage of the Irish language. The full extent of its uptake and understanding, will ultimately be known once RTÉ begins its information campaign. I'm sure when freeview in the UK was in the stages saorview is now, you wouldn't be able to understand it from much more than that its something you look at. The brand was incepted from the public awareness campaign.The only way for any brand in any language to be recognised is by advertising and awareness, which RTÉ is probably obliged to provide for this National service.

Also, you are incorrect in mentioning "Cuisine de France" in the Brands that are nothing more that consonants and vowels, because in fact, that literaly in French means " The Kitchen of France" or "The French Kitchen". AS irrelevant as that may be, it was really bugging me!

Elmo · 17-11-2010 03:05PM

Darragh Irish Rail is Iranrod Éireann (note their logo, which Ironical took over from IR) for many people, RTÉ to many people is still teilfise eireann. Xerox comes from the greek dry, Nike a Greek godess, Reebox is Africans. (I was pointing out how other languages are used in Brand names hence CdF).

Iarnr%C3%B3d_%C3%89ireann.png&t=1

The HSE is a new quango which all seem to go with English while DAA (it could be UAB) was once known as Aer Rianta. Aer Lingus meaning Air Fleet, but it is a brand. FreeView isn't technically correct English its a brand. Then there is Arqiva which comes from Macquarie.

obviously I choose Irish named Semistates to prove my point and I could list more if I wanted as you could list more English Language ones.

What I am trying to say is that a Brand isn't effected by language as long as it is marketed correctly. Kind of Like the word Garda, which I am sure some foreigners find difficult to begin with but soon realize that we mean the Police (note the irish for police is actually póilíní and that Newsreader refer to the Police in NI and around the world in Irish as Póilíní).

I shouldn't have brought up the problems that people have with even the slightest bit of Irish Language when the rest of my post was far more important, Apologises for going OTT.

Gerry Wicklow · 17-11-2010 03:43PM

For what it's worth, the word "television" comes from a mix of greek and latin:o

Sam Russell · 17-11-2010 04:48PM

I turned on the TV this mornibg to check signals and was surprised to find RTE broadcasting the Dail live on RTE 1, and TG4 and RTE NEWS NOW.

Surely there is no need to broadcast this on three different channels - it is not as if they were saying anything newsworthy. It does give an idea what an Oireachtas channel would be like. The Oireachtas is an important part of life, even if it is full of w*****s. We need to listen to them and make sure they know we are listening (and watching) them so that they behave themselves. The use of the channel to broadcast the activities of the Oireachtas commitees would increase the importance of those commitees and if tribunals were included better again. There is plenty of dead space in the schedule of TG4 and RTE1 to allow for this, even if it is time shifted.

If this had been available over the years would we be in a different place right now? Probably not.

tlaavtech · 17-11-2010 05:06PM

Sam Russell wrote: »

I turned on the TV this mornibg to check signals and was surprised to find RTE broadcasting the Dail live on RTE 1, and TG4 and RTE NEWS NOW.

Yes, but it was an unprecedented opportunity to compare and contrast the bit rates being used by the RTE1 and TG4 since they were transmitting identical pictures. (TG4 was at a slightly lower bit-rate - I am not such an anorak that I kept notes

)

Hibrasil · 17-11-2010 05:09PM

galtee boy wrote: »

My guess is that we will see something soon on the channel that was being used for the HD loop. Possibly RTE1+1 or RTE JR, I don't suppose, it's being got ready for 3e ? As a new channel has switched on today, flagged as HDTV on the EPG and they are not going to have two HD channels, you would guess that something new is about to appear. However, as we all know, things move very slowly, in the world of Irish DTT !

This afternoon.....quick check and 3e has replaced test card..info for those who feel the need for 3e;)

Elmo · 17-11-2010 05:18PM

Sam Russell wrote: »

I turned on the TV this mornibg to check signals and was surprised to find RTE broadcasting the Dail live on RTE 1, and TG4 and RTE NEWS NOW.

TG4 always broadcast Dail Beo while RTÉ One generally has Leaders Questions. TG4 is not RTÉ. RTÉ NEWS NOW covers some good Press Conference such as the EU one Today just before the lunchtime news.

I hope TV3 are paying for the use of DTT.

Sam Russell · 17-11-2010 05:28PM

Oh NO not e3!:mad:

tlaavtech · 17-11-2010 05:29PM

Sam Russell wrote: »

Oh NO not e3!:mad:

Try and contain your indifference

watty · 17-11-2010 05:31PM

It's hardly likely that TV3 are paying before Full Launch. But you never know!

Mr McBoatface · 17-11-2010 05:33PM

Sam Russell wrote: »

Oh NO not e3!:mad:

I've never actually watched the channel, it wasn't on Sky when I had it... I'll reserve judgement for the moment.

Anybody know how many transmitters are geared up to have the 2nd mux turned on ?

Sam Russell · 17-11-2010 06:06PM

tlaavtech wrote: »

Try and contain your indifference

I looked at the schedule and cannot see a single programme that I would watch. It is clearly aimed at a social group that I am not part of, and probably is in a parallel universe to the one occupied by me.

It is a cable channel and should be left as a cable channel, consigned to the 800s on the EPG - that is the area of the EPG rarely visited, and only by the bored and insane and by those suffering from insomnia.

Elmo · 17-11-2010 06:07PM

Sam Russell wrote: »

I looked at the schedule and cannot see a single programme that I would watch. It is clearly aimed at a social group that I am not part of, and probably is in a parallel universe to the one occupied by me.

It is a cable channel and should be left as a cable channel, consigned to the 800s on the EPG - that is the area of the EPG rarely visited, and only by the bored and insane and by those suffering from insomnia.

No he said contain your indifference. Its getting Conan

The Cush · 17-11-2010 06:10PM

jobyrne30 wrote: »

Anybody know how many transmitters are geared up to have the 2nd mux turned on ?

No, we don't even have an official list of transmitters for the first mux.

At a guess at least the first 13 main tx. and large population relays considering they were also upgraded for the 3 commercial multiplexes. They are occasionally switched on and then off again.

I don't think they have content for it at the moment unless they launch the Oireachtas and Film Channels, maybe they'll surprise us with the UK channels (highly unlikely though).

glimmerman123 · 17-11-2010 06:15PM

Now that 3e has appeared how many more channels can go on that mux? I wonder will mux 2 be fired up soon and if we might see one or two tests appear. The reason i ask is because mux 2 was switched on yesterday from Maghera for a short period of time and i was picking up RTE DTT on channel 55 as well as channel 48.So maybe something will appear on mux 2 in the coming weeks. Wishful thinking i suppose.

Sam Russell · 17-11-2010 06:18PM

Elmo wrote: »

No he said contain your indifference.

I would prefer the test card. At least I can empathise with that. e3 is total rubbish designed for the braindead.

Charles Slane · 17-11-2010 06:19PM

Sam Russell wrote: »

I looked at the schedule and cannot see a single programme that I would watch. It is clearly aimed at a social group that I am not part of, and probably is in a parallel universe to the one occupied by me.

It is a cable channel and should be left as a cable channel, consigned to the 800s on the EPG - that is the area of the EPG rarely visited, and only by the bored and insane and by those suffering from insomnia.

How wonderfully tolerant you are of other people's tastes.

I'm delighted it's there. Conan O'Brien every night at midnight. House, CSI, Family Guy, UEFA Cup coverage...

I'd watch a lot more on it that I would on TG4 (although I wouldn't suggest that other people shouldn't see TG4 just because I don't care for it, that would be just weird..)

watty · 17-11-2010 06:23PM

On my DTT stitck 3e has appeared on Ch6. (remember?). All the digital radio except Pulse has gone, but the bit rate was low for MP2. I think they need to use HE-AAC Stereo if using 96k. You need 256K for half reasonable MP2 Audio.

Pat Gleeson · 17-11-2010 06:27PM

Sam Russell wrote: »

e3 is total rubbish designed for the braindead.

They'll have a big audience then

, plenty of braindead in this country - the X Factor is popular isn't it?

galtee boy · 17-11-2010 06:41PM

Sam Russell wrote: »

I would prefer the test card. At least I can empathise with that. e3 is total rubbish designed for the braindead.

We're a nation of knockers aren't we ? A few weeks ago, we didn't think Saorview would launch with TV3, never mind 3e. Quality or type of programming on these channels is irrelevant, there is plenty of crap on RTE aswell. What people watch is a personal choice. The important word being CHOICE. I say well done to RTE NL, TV3 presumably for giving the go ahead, and all concerned at Saorview. A channel that was only available through pay tv, is now free to air ! Watch it or don't watch it, but at least, don't knock those who do.

By the way, despite rescanning my tv and the name "3e" showing up on the channel list, when I come out of scan, it reverts back to being RTE NL1 again. Its a Panny G10 ( Irish model ). Anyone else with same problem ?

doney84 · 17-11-2010 07:03PM

galtee boy wrote: »

We're a nation of knockers aren't we ? A few weeks ago, we didn't think Saorview would launch with TV3, never mind 3e. Quality or type of programming on these channels is irrelevant, there is plenty of crap on RTE aswell. What people watch is a personal choice. The important word being CHOICE. I say well done to RTE NL, TV3 presumably for giving the go ahead, and all concerned at Saorview. A channel that was only available through pay tv, is now free to air ! Watch it or don't watch it, but at least, don't knock those who do.
?

+1

In the old days · 17-11-2010 07:15PM

watty wrote: »

On my DTT stitck 3e has appeared on Ch6. (remember?). All the digital radio except Pulse has gone, but the bit rate was low for MP2. I think they need to use HE-AAC Stereo if using 96k. You need 256K for half reasonable MP2 Audio.

Still getting 10 or so RTE radio channels on DTT along with 3e in Terenure.

Elmo · 17-11-2010 07:15PM

galtee boy wrote: »

We're a nation of knockers aren't we ? A few weeks ago, we didn't think Saorview would launch with TV3, never mind 3e. Quality or type of programming on these channels is irrelevant, there is plenty of crap on RTE aswell. What people watch is a personal choice. The important word being CHOICE. I say well done to RTE NL, TV3 presumably for giving the go ahead, and all concerned at Saorview. A channel that was only available through pay tv, is now free to air ! Watch it or don't watch it, but at least, don't knock those who do.

I don't think it is a case of knocking anything lets face it this is 5 years too late. Most on here have supported RTÉ in the efforts to launch Saorview. I have no problem with TV3 or 3e being available on the service but only if they are paying to be there after all they are commercial entities. I don't know if they are paying their way, if they are then thats fine, if they aren't then RTÉ NL should be willing to add City Channel and the community channels on the current "trial".

I'd watch a lot more on it that I would on TG4 (although I wouldn't suggest that other people shouldn't see TG4 just because I don't care for it, that would be just weird..)

Are you sure? I always wonder about this. TG4 has plenty of quality programming. Both international and home produced. I think people purely give stick to TG4 because and only because it is sometimes Irish. Indeed like RTÉ and TV3 they make some bad programming, but I wouldn't knock TG4 as quickly as I would TV3's set of channels. BTW 3E is becoming more and more TV3 +1.

Saorview Content Speculation

Comments