CRP on Rosslare Rail Line

corktina · 10-11-2010 04:20PM

Losty Dublin wrote: »

I know, it's a disgrace and what with these buses stopping in all the towns en route instead of the bus, it's a disgraceful situation, the bus service is in a state of chassis, I tells ya!:p

BE are economising by running just a chassis with no body? No, i must have read it wrong.No wait, buses are stopping in all the towns instead of the bus? something wrong with my PC methinks....

Losty Dublin · 10-11-2010 06:00PM

corktina wrote: »

BE are economising by running just a chassis with no body? No, i must have read it wrong.No wait, buses are stopping in all the towns instead of the bus? something wrong with my PC methinks....

It was a typo, meant to say instead of a train

The point is though, the replacement bus service is far more frequent than the rail service that preceded it.

@KC61, I feel that some people are complaining about CIE companies for the sake of it; it's almost habitual for them at times.

10-11-2010 06:44PM

Losty Dublin wrote: »

I feel that some people are complaining about CIE companies for the sake of it; it's almost habitual for them at times.

Some of it seems to be nit picking but the south Wexford and the Mk3 situations have really grated me recently.

KC61 · 10-11-2010 06:48PM

Karsini wrote: »

Some of it seems to be nit picking but the south Wexford and the Mk3 situations have really grated me recently.

Indeed but I am trying to establish from Topnotch, leaving aside the closure of the railway line, what exactly is shambolic about the bus services.

Or was this just a throwaway comment due to the closure of the railway line?

Losty Dublin · 10-11-2010 07:26PM

Karsini wrote: »

Some of it seems to be nit picking but the south Wexford and the Mk3 situations have really grated me recently.

I'm in two minds about the Mark 3, Karsini.

When Irish Rail got in the Mark 3's, they had a lifespan of about 25 years planned, which give or take is what Irish Rail got from the sets. On one hand, most of them could have been refitted and refurbished but given the large costs to refurbish them all and to run with diesel hungry 201's and 071's or get in new stock that eliminate shunting staff and guards, less track points, less down time at terminal stations, fuel economy, standarised fleet management and with better operational flexibility it's a no brainer in many ways at the loss of overhauling and refitting otherwise decent bodyshells. I'd have held onto the Push Pull sets but they gave almost 20 years service and were due overhauls soon; yet more costs with not too much gain from same.

Irish Rail are caught in the middle between a desire to cut costs big time by Ministers and the long term lack of the chance to offer wholesale changes as was offered in introducing the 22000 sets. They have wanted to go DMU for years but it's only in the late 90's that the chance and the money to allow same was afforded to them. It's taken a while but the fruits of running them over loco stock are slowly beginning to show but yes it was at a cost and it will take a while to see if it was worth it in the long run.

topnotch · 10-11-2010 09:46PM

Speaking of things that grate. This European Court of Auditors report on EU sugar market reform defintely takes the biscuit. http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/1110/breaking52.html

-Chris- · 10-11-2010 10:53PM

topnotch wrote: »

Speaking of things that grate. This European Court of Auditors report on EU sugar market reform defintely takes the biscuit. http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/1110/breaking52.html

How do sugar and biscuits relate to the topic at hand?

10-11-2010 10:55PM

-Chris- wrote: »

How do sugar and biscuits relate to the topic at hand?

Sugar beet traffic was the main reason the line lasted as long as it did. The closure of the sugar factory was seen as the death knell.

Our man in Havana · 10-11-2010 10:55PM

Because the south wexford line was closed in part due to the loss of the sugar beet.

save the rail · 10-11-2010 10:59PM

Transportuser09 wrote: »

Anyway, at least the CRP is trying, they may fail, they may not, but the only that's 100% certain is that nothing will happen if nobody does anything. Out of curiousity, is the CRP for the Dublin line seperate to that of the SWIFT, or is the south Wexford title being used for all?

SWIFFT and CRP are the same group

Judgement Day · 10-11-2010 10:59PM

Losty Dublin wrote: »

I'm in two minds about the Mark 3, Karsini.

When Irish Rail got in the Mark 3's, they had a lifespan of about 25 years planned, which give or take is what Irish Rail got from the sets. On one hand, most of them could have been refitted and refurbished but given the large costs to refurbish them all and to run with diesel hungry 201's and 071's or get in new stock that eliminate shunting staff and guards, less track points, less down time at terminal stations, fuel economy, standarised fleet management and with better operational flexibility it's a no brainer in many ways at the loss of overhauling and refitting otherwise decent bodyshells. I'd have held onto the Push Pull sets but they gave almost 20 years service and were due overhauls soon; yet more costs with not too much gain from same.

Irish Rail are caught in the middle between a desire to cut costs big time by Ministers and the long term lack of the chance to offer wholesale changes as was offered in introducing the 22000 sets. They have wanted to go DMU for years but it's only in the late 90's that the chance and the money to allow same was afforded to them. It's taken a while but the fruits of running them over loco stock are slowly beginning to show but yes it was at a cost and it will take a while to see if it was worth it in the long run.

CIE/IE have had their heads up their holes for decades and saying they wished to go the DMU for years is nonsense. Acquisition policy in CIE/IE is determined by Engineers and senior management - in the latest case Dick Fearn is in love with railcars. Why on earth would they go out and buy 201s and Mk IVs if they wanted railcars? As for getting 25 years out of the Mk IIIs - they could have got 40 years out of them but when someone else is paying what the hell. No private company could survive operating the way that CIE/IE does. The only point that I will agree with you on is that doing away with loco hauled operation allows the company to do with operating staff, loco releases etc.etc which is what the management is obsessed with - now if only the same effort were put into retaining and drumming up new business.

Incidentally, proving my point that you know nothing more than heresay about me - why did you mention Cahir in your list as it had nothing whatsoever to do with CIE?

PS - Also, don't come the old - I'm from a railway family with me as I'm fourth generation railway on my father's side.

save the rail · 10-11-2010 11:02PM

topnotch wrote: »

Save the rail (SWIFFT) are softening up and are spending too long listening to the Irish Rail spin doctors. If they want to do something constructive they should try to sort out the shambolic replacement bus serivces and be meeting with bus eireann.

We have and are in touch with the NTA in relation to the shambolic replacement bus service, ant time we are informed of an early or late departure we notify the NTA

save the rail · 10-11-2010 11:06PM

KC61 wrote: »

Indeed but I am trying to establish from Topnotch, leaving aside the closure of the railway line, what exactly is shambolic about the bus services.

Or was this just a throwaway comment due to the closure of the railway line?

The main problem with the replacement service is that it eiter arrives 10-20 mins early as it did today or arrives up to 40mins late, thats not good enough by anyones standard

steamengine · 10-11-2010 11:26PM

Karsini wrote: »

Some of it seems to be nit picking but the south Wexford and the Mk3 situations have really grated me recently.

+1........Looking at this Wiki link would indeed indicate that Mk 3's indeed have had a faster, longer life in the UK which continues to the present day !

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Mark_3

Losty Dublin · 10-11-2010 11:34PM

Judgement Day wrote: »

CIE/IE have had their heads up their holes for decades and saying they wished to go the DMU for years is nonsense. Acquisition policy in CIE/IE is determined by Engineers and senior management - in the latest case Dick Fearn is in love with railcars. Why on earth would they go out and buy 201s and Mk IVs if they wanted railcars? As for getting 25 years out of the Mk IIIs - they could have got 40 years out of them but when someone else is paying what the hell. No private company could survive operating the way that CIE/IE does. The only point that I will agree with you on is that doing away with loco hauled operation allows the company to do with operating staff, loco releases etc.etc which is what the management is obsessed with - now if only the same effort were put into retaining and drumming up new business.

Incidentally, proving my point that you know nothing more than heresay about me - why did you mention Cahir in your list as it had nothing whatsoever to do with CIE?

PS - Also, don't come the old - I'm from a railway family with me as I'm fourth generation railway on my father's side.

Mark 4's were ordered before Fearn's got to Ireland so he hadn't any power in that call but say what you want but most railway companies in Europe go with Multiple Units for many reasons it must be the right call

Push Pull offer use of current loco stock but as long ago as the mid 80s railcars were the preferred option but for no cash to renew stock. Going back to Mark 3's, they were approaching end of life pending a refit and refurbishment if kept; some Mark 2's ended up being an exorbitant price due to corrosion alone. Cravens and Mark 2's were also at their life end and they needed replacement as well for longer haul runs so it was the best time to push for a change.

On Cahir, was there not a proposed project lined up there with this dear baby that ended up in Dromod? Had you any involvement with it?

Judgement Day · 11-11-2010 12:04AM

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Mark 4's were ordered before Fearn's got to Ireland so he hadn't any power in that call but say what you want but most railway companies in Europe go with Multiple Units for many reasons it must be the right call Push Pull offer use of current loco stock but as long ago as the mid 80s railcars were the preferred option but for no cash to renew stock. Going back to Mark 3's, they were approaching end of life pending a refit and refurbishment if kept; some Mark 2's ended up being an exorbitant price due to corrosion alone. Cravens and Mark 2's were also at their life end and they needed replacement as well for longer haul runs so it was the best time to push for a change.

On Cahir, was there not a proposed project lined up there with this dear baby that ended up in Dromod? Had you any involvement with it?

I didn't say that Fearn ordered the Mk IVs but you stated that CIE/IE had wanted to go the DMU route for years - so why did the company order the Mk IVs? Incidentally, by the time IE get the poor riding problems sorted out it will be their turn for premature scrapping. MkII's latterly suffered from corrosion but MkIII's did not. The Cravens were obsolete in design and I always hated them which I suppose proves that I'm not a real trainspotter, but they would have run till their wheels fell off.

Yes, C47 was at the museum in Cahir but as I stated that project had nothing to do with CIE so I don't see why I would have any axe to grind with CIE over it? I suggest that instead of attacking me you concentrate on your own efforts here: http://www.heritagerailway.ie/about/message.html

or here.

topnotch · 11-11-2010 12:13AM

The bustitution heritage group, replace everything with buses even the railtours:pac:.

Losty Dublin · 11-11-2010 12:18AM

Judgement Day wrote: »

I didn't say that Fearn ordered the Mk IVs but you stated that CIE/IE had wanted to go the DMU route for years - so why did the company order the Mk IVs? Incidentally, by the time IE get the poor riding problems sorted out it will be their turn for premature scrapping. MkII's latterly suffered from corrosion but MkIII's did not. The Cravens were obsolete in design and I always hated them which I suppose proves that I'm not a real trainspotter, but they would have run till their wheels fell off.

They wanted railcars as I said but they went with DVT sets on the Cork to use 201 class locos as they were capable and there set up to work such a set. Maybe you should PS Dick and ask him why the next time you send him another letter

Judgement Day wrote: »

Yes, C47 was at the museum in Cahir but as I stated that project had nothing to do with CIE so I don't see why I would have any axe to grind with CIE over it?

I don't know why you brought it up in this thread but Mick Kennedy has done great work on it as of late. You should be proud of it as well:)

Judgement Day wrote: »

I suggest that instead of attacking me you concentrate on your own efforts here: http://www.heritagerailway.ie/about/message.html

or here.

That's going very well, thanks for asking. I'd invite you along only you'd probably find a bone in your chicken dinner to choke on

Judgement Day · 11-11-2010 12:47AM

Losty Dublin wrote: »

They wanted railcars as I said but they went with DVT sets on the Cork to use 201 class locos as they were capable and there set up to work such a set. Maybe you should PS Dick and ask him why the next time you send him another letter

I don't know why you brought it up in this thread but Mick Kennedy has done great work on it as of late. You should be proud of it as well:)

That's going very well, thanks for asking. I'd invite you along only you'd probably find a bone in your chicken dinner to choke on

I have given up on Dick of late - he's like yourself - only answers those questions that he can and ignores the others.

You mentioned Cahir on this thread NOT me - see your post #235 - and I'm delighted to hear that a vehicle of which I am still a 50% owner is being looked after. I'm not sure why you think I should be proud of it though?

You seem to find plain English very hard to understand, I didn't ask how the Irish Railway Heritage Group was going - I suggested you concentrate on it instead of sparring with me here. :rolleyes:

Transportuser09 · 11-11-2010 12:49AM

topnotch wrote: »

The bustitution heritage group, replace everything with buses even the railtours:pac:.

Have you done any better yourself?

topnotch · 11-11-2010 01:22AM

Did you not hear! JD and I are in negotiations with 3 railtour providers at present. Unfortunately due to the sensitive nature of our ongoing discussions we can provid no further details at present.:p

Transportuser09 · 11-11-2010 01:47AM

topnotch wrote: »

Did you not hear! JD and I are in negotiations with 3 railtour providers at present. Unfortunately due to the sensitive nature of our ongoing discussions we can provid no further details at present.:p

Seriously though, its very easy to sit at a keyboard and criticise but at least groups like the Rosslare CRP and the Heritage group are making an attempt to do something in their respective fields.

For the record it makes perfect sense that the CRP can't divulge information on the potential operators, such information would probably be commercially sensitive. If you think you can do better then get out there and try it.

KC61 · 11-11-2010 10:57AM

save the rail wrote: »

The main problem with the replacement service is that it eiter arrives 10-20 mins early as it did today or arrives up to 40mins late, thats not good enough by anyones standard

Thank you Save the Rail - I was just interested to see how it was doing, without getting into the politics of rail -v- bus.

Where is it arriving early?

Presumbably if it was 40 minutes late this was down to traffic in New Ross?

schemingbohemia · 11-11-2010 01:37PM

save the rail wrote: »

The main problem with the replacement service is that it eiter arrives 10-20 mins early as it did today or arrives up to 40mins late, thats not good enough by anyones standard

For an allegedly poor replacement service it seems to have trebled patronage on buses in the area - see here from NTA presentation to Transport Committee

Mr. Gerry Murphy: While we do not have responsibility for the rural transport service, informally in the south east, as part of the associated Rosslare-Waterford service and replacement bus services, we looked at integrating the new realigned service with the RTI. We saw in that process that there were inefficiencies as the services were partly covering the same areas. We introduced an integrated timetable there and on the 370 bus route operated by Bus Éireann there has been an almost threefold increase in patronage since the realignment of the services. We want to focus again on the south east to see what can be generally extracted in better value and we will look at the rural services in that, even though they do not come within our legislative remit.

save the rail · 11-11-2010 02:39PM

KC61 wrote: »

Thank you Save the Rail - I was just interested to see how it was doing, without getting into the politics of rail -v- bus.

Where is it arriving early?

Presumbably if it was 40 minutes late this was down to traffic in New Ross?

Just for example yesterday morning it arrived in bridgetown 15mins early, it was 40 mins late a few time arriving in campile for the trip to Waterford (cant understand why)

It is often late back from Waterford but that is to be expected with New Ross

save the rail · 11-11-2010 03:19PM

schemingbohemia wrote: »

For an allegedly poor replacement service it seems to have trebled patronage on buses in the area - see here from NTA presentation to Transport Committee

Mr. Gerry Murphy: While we do not have responsibility for the rural transport service, informally in the south east, as part of the associated Rosslare-Waterford service and replacement bus services, we looked at integrating the new realigned service with the RTI. We saw in that process that there were inefficiencies as the services were partly covering the same areas. We introduced an integrated timetable there and on the 370 bus route operated by Bus Éireann there has been an almost threefold increase in patronage since the realignment of the services. We want to focus again on the south east to see what can be generally extracted in better value and we will look at the rural services in that, even though they do not come within our legislative remit.

TREEFOLD - ACCORDING TO WHOM? I know for a fact a few people who used the train started going on the bus and have found an alternative way to travel as its unreliable.

markpb · 11-11-2010 03:28PM

save the rail wrote: »

TREEFOLD - ACCORDING TO WHOM? I know for a fact a few people who used the train started going on the bus and have found an alternative way to travel as its unreliable.

The head of the NTA who you'd hope has access to reliable and complete figures.

KC61 · 11-11-2010 03:35PM

Remember that there are now additional two return workings to/from Rosslare in addition to the social service between New Ross and Wexford which has been redesigned, and the commuter service to/from Fethard which has been extended.

save the rail · 11-11-2010 03:36PM

markpb wrote: »

The head of the NTA who you'd hope has access to reliable and complete figures.

Hmm I wonder are BE figures worked out to suit themselves like IE figures???
The day Gerry Murphy or anyone who has a say in this travels on this service, then I will say they know what they are talking about. Until you have experienced it you can't understand the hassles involved for the students

KC61 · 11-11-2010 03:44PM

save the rail wrote: »

Hmm I wonder are BE figures worked out to suit themselves like IE figures???
The day Gerry Murphy or anyone who has a say in this travels on this service, then I will say they know what they are talking about. Until you have experienced it you can't understand the hassles involved for the students

I would imagine that Gerry Murphy is looking at all the services quoted above, and not just the early morning commuter from Rosslare and the evening return.

Also, the NTA have committed to fully reviewing the South Wexford bus network in 2011 - reference the link in the NTA/Oireachtas committee thread.

CRP on Rosslare Rail Line

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