35 taxi drivers commit suicide in the last year.

professore · 29-10-2010 8:55am

phasers wrote: »

There needs to be stricter testing on the old taxi license, at this stage and old Joe can get one. I think only people with an encyclopedic knowledge of the city and as decent car should be allowed drive taxis.

I would agree with this. Some sort of oral exam should be instigated in the style of the driving license test - maybe ask the driver to take the tester to some random places in the city without a map or satnav picked from a drum? Driver is allowed to drive for 1 year without taking the test to give him / her a chance to learn the streets but can't renew license without getting a mark in the test. Marks given or taken away if driver is racist, talks crap etc.

I realise we are way off the topic now but phasers makes a good point here. I am all for competition but am not against regulation PROVIDED it improves standards rather than decreases them.

faceman · 29-10-2010 8:57am

Some of the responses in the this thread are quite ignorant. But its not entirely your fault, the government should be taking more responsibility.

More people (and more men than women) take their lives in Ireland each year than are killed on our roads. Yet the percentage of investment in road safety is significantly higher than that of suicide prevention and awareness.

Nobody takes their life because he/she is a taxi driver, or a IT worker or any type of profession. There are underlying mental health issues and other factors will contribute to these issues.

As much as I despise the taxi union, if their action results in more investment in suicide prevention and awareness by the government, then its a very good thing.

senordingdong · 29-10-2010 8:59am

myflipflops wrote: »

Anybody, in any industry, should probably stop working if they are deemed suicidal or a risk to themselves. Depression is a very serious illness.

The idea that regulating the taxi industry is a reasonable way to help solve the suicide problem in this country is ridiculous. It's a wide ranging problem.

Agreed.
I was just trying to highlight the ridiculousness of the idea that taxt drivers some how deserve special treatment.

myflipflops · 29-10-2010 9:09am

faceman wrote: »

As much as I despise the taxi union, if their action results in more investment in suicide prevention and awareness by the government, then its a very good thing.

Agree with the investment but taxi union is intimating a scenario that basically says - "Regulate the industry and suicide will go down".

It risks simplifying suicide and as somebody said before, I disagree with the use of suicide for policitcal means.

The fact is that lots of people are struggling financially in my sectors. Very few industries have suffered from the very public backlash that taxi drivers have. The campaign that the taxi unions have launched was high profile and confrontational and has resulted in the current public opinion. There is a very great possibility to say that this negative image that all taxi drivers have been tarred with has had as great effect on the mental state of the unfortunate drivers as anything else.

Dudess · 29-10-2010 9:41am

senordingdong wrote: »

I will wager that many of these men did not kill themselves becasue their job suddenly became competitive.
I reckon they have huge debts that they are struggling to pay.
With this in mind, who's fault is it if someone lives beyond their means?

Wager and reckon all you like - it's still an assumption, and totally sh1tty to gloat. Any time anyone makes that awful comment here on AH, you just know they're saying it from the comfort of their job. Well very few jobs are secure at the moment - and when one of you loses your job (and statistically, it's likely) you'll perhaps look with a bit more sympathy at those who are struggling, and bear in mind it's not always due to being careless with money, but simply down to losing their job.

Not speaking about taxi drivers specifically btw, just any worker.

coffee_cake · 29-10-2010 9:53am

faceman wrote: »

Nobody takes their life because he/she is a taxi driver, or a IT worker or any type of profession. There are underlying mental health issues and other factors will contribute to these issues.

As much as I despise the taxi union, if their action results in more investment in suicide prevention and awareness by the government, then its a very good thing.

Faceman, I don't think these two paragraphs follow.
There ARE generally underlying mental health issues. I doubt people wake up and go "well I'm broke, might as well top myself".
There are campaigns all over the place to show that just because you appear happy and have everything going for you, doesn't mean you aren't depressed and suicidal.
So for the taxi people to imply and campaign based on "losing their jobs = suicide" like it's some simple link and some simple easily cleared up matter is doing nothing to help the cause of prevention and awareness. It brings us right back to "if you have a job you must be happy what would you have to be sad about" thinking and undermines the work done to date.

There DOES need to be more funding and campaigning on suicide prevention and awareness but this is not going to help and I sincerely doubt that any action arising from it will be more than superficial. I would like to think I am wrong but I doubt it.

arybvtcw0eolkf · 29-10-2010 9:53am

Dudess wrote: »

Wager and reckon all you like - it's still an assumption, and totally sh1tty to gloat. Any time anyone makes that awful comment here on AH, you just know they're saying it from the comfort of their job. Well very few jobs are secure at the moment - and when one of you loses your job (and statistically, it's likely) you'll perhaps look with a bit more sympathy at those who are struggling, and bear in mind it's not always due to being careless with money, but simply down to losing their job.

Not speaking about taxi drivers specifically btw, just any worker.

Miss.D its/he's not worth stressing about.

Jesus Wept · 29-10-2010 10:12am

Werther effect

Naos · 29-10-2010 10:45am

doolox wrote: »

It doesnt take a genius to figure out the waiting time at any place from putting a stopwatch on the time it takes the lead driver of any queue to get a fare then multiply that by the 60-80 cars waiting at these places where in the older days there might be a dozen.

Then why are they bloody sitting there? Drive around for crying out loud.

I'd have thought the majority of people who go to a shopping centre would get there by car, in order to haul their purchases back so why bother go to that rank?

I'd say a lot of taxi drivers would bail out now if they hadn't commited themselves to new cars, licences, driving courses and other entry requirements, a lot of which were paid for by loans from Credit Unions at high interest rates.....these are seldom rich people who can strike a low rate for loans.

High interest rate from a Credit Union? What do you classify as high exactly?

faceman · 29-10-2010 10:50am

bluewolf wrote: »

Faceman, I don't think these two paragraphs follow.
There ARE generally underlying mental health issues. I doubt people wake up and go "well I'm broke, might as well top myself".
There are campaigns all over the place to show that just because you appear happy and have everything going for you, doesn't mean you aren't depressed and suicidal.
So for the taxi people to imply and campaign based on "losing their jobs = suicide" like it's some simple link and some simple easily cleared up matter is doing nothing to help the cause of prevention and awareness. It brings us right back to "if you have a job you must be happy what would you have to be sad about" thinking and undermines the work done to date.

There DOES need to be more funding and campaigning on suicide prevention and awareness but this is not going to help and I sincerely doubt that any action arising from it will be more than superficial. I would like to think I am wrong but I doubt it.

Im in agreement with most your points but the campaigns to date have been limited in scope and reach. Its not enough.

The only way things can change is through political persuason. Unfortunately thats the only thing that ever makes a difference in Ireland as very few members of public rarely voice their concern at matters that effect other people.

Whats the alternative to what the taxi union is doing? Say nothing at all? Ive no doubt there is bias to their campaign but i fail to believe that its not a sincere campaign if the heads of the union have lost friends to suicide.

Have any other lobby groups that draw media attenion tried to raise suicide awareness in recent years? I dont believe so, but i could be wrong.

29-10-2010 10:58am

faceman wrote: »

Have any other lobby groups that draw media attenion tried to raise suicide awareness in recent years? I dont believe so, but i could be wrong.

Property Developers.

http://www.joe.ie/news-politics/current-affairs/29-property-developers-committed-suicide-during-recession-006081-1

Basically it seems that groups that are 100% out for themselves and have very little public support seem to be playing the suicide card.

myflipflops · 29-10-2010 11:09am

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Basically it seems that groups that are 100% out for themselves and have very little public support seem to be playing the suicide card.

Now there's the making of an identifiable pattern.

While lots of sectors (construction workers, rank and file bank employees architects, small business owners amongst others) have been hit with job losses and financial woes, the 2 sectors that announce apparently (I have nothing to reference the figures against) large suicide rates are also the 2 sectors that have faced negative media and public opinion.

Blaming basic financial struggles may not be the issue, being criticised publicily from all angles probably has a massive bearing.

It shows the self serving nature of the announcements.

The Waltzing Consumer · 29-10-2010 11:15am

Nodin wrote: »

If somebody acts like a fuck and a wagon, then there ye go. Critcising specific individuals for what they say is fair enough, generalising isn't.

That is your opinion, and one that lacks any class. It is a pity the majority of people are happy with the taxi regulator and would disagree with you.

People generalise groups, such as FF or the Catholic Church or in this case the taxi drivers, all the time. It is not the best way of arguing, but it is much more preferable to singling out a priest or member of FF and sling personal abuse. Call me old fashioned but it is even worse when you use sexist language if the person is a woman. Criticize the woman all you want in her role in the job, but when the best you can come up with is calling her a "fcuk" and a "wagon", you lost any respect for your argument and yourself.

eirmail · 29-10-2010 11:15am

Wouldn't many people who have lost their jobs and found themselves in debt then start themselves up taxi'ing, and even working say 80 hours a week.

If these are the people committing suicide then regulating the industry and limiting the amount of taxi drivers won't help them as they won't be able to get a job in the first place.

And they would just end up being an uemplyed person commiting suicide than a taxi driver commiting suicide.

jackiebaron · 29-10-2010 11:17am

Scambuster wrote: »

I don't care any more for one suicide than another depending on their profession. Using suicides for political reasons is fairly reprehensible.

While what you say makes sense in this context it still smacks of backpeddling. Glibly spitting out adolescent quips like "who cares" is just as reprehensible if not callous.

Were many taxi drivers opportunistic and greedy? Yes. Is the taxi industry a shambolic farce plagued with corner-cutting, interference and corruption? Yes. Are many taxi operators now facing ruination like so many other workers in different occupations? Yes.
Should we care about some of them who take their own lives as a result of misery, depression and desperation? Abso-fcuking-lutely.
Last time I looked they were still human beings with children and wives and mothers and friends and hopes.
The "screw 'em. Who gives a sh!t?" attitude doesn't resonate with me somehow. Sorry but I just can't adjust to that level of sadism.

Naos · 29-10-2010 11:22am

For the record, I do empathise with the families & friends of those who have commited suicide, it's horrible to think anyone would be that low.

Who I do not empathise with are the Taxi men who are on their high horse. A friend and I came out of Spar on Westmoreland St. the other night, few taxi men parked outside.

We offered 15e to Blanchardstown, they just said "Not a hope", no counter offer. Said fine, 17e - again just blank stares and "Would ye get out of it".

Hopped on the road, spotted a Foreign National and said "18e to Blanch?", recieved a "Yup, get in".

Lazy fools.

The Waltzing Consumer · 29-10-2010 11:25am

Naos wrote: »

For the record, I do empathise with the families & friends of those who have commited suicide, it's horrible to think anyone would be that low.

Who I do not empathise with are the Taxi men who are on their high horse. A friend and I came out of Spar the other night, few taxi men parked outside.

We offered 15e to Blanchardstown, they just said "Not a hope", no counter offer. Said fine, 17e - again just blank stares and "Would ye get out of it".

Hopped on the road, spotted a Foreign National and said "18e to Blanch?", recieved a "Yup, get in".

Lazy fools.

Just out of curiosity, where was the Spar? From Blanch so wanna know if 15 was a fair deal

deandean · 29-10-2010 11:27am

A terrible statistic, really sad.

There must be something about taxi drivers that skews the stats. I think it's more than about the finances. If it was just about the money, half the tradesmen in the country would have topped themselves by now (I saw a carpenter have his jeep agressively repossed a couple of months back - very distressing).

I have noticed myself that a lot of taxi drivers seem to be of a depressive / highly strung personality. Perhaps those who are more prone to suicide tend to end up as taxi drivers?

29-10-2010 11:30am

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

Just out of curiosity, where was the Spar? From Blanch so wanna know if 15 was a fair deal

Fair deal? Exactly how much work do they wanna do for 15 quid?

I've said it a million times and I'll say it again. People would be way more inclined to get a taxi if it was half the price it is now. The fact is that taxi drivers still want to make as much money as possible by doing as little work as possible and so won't even contemplate asking for fares to be lowered.

swiss · 29-10-2010 11:30am

There are two separate, but related issues being discussed here.

Suicide is a very serious and tragic societal problem, and one that I believe is not being sufficiently addressed in terms of prevention resources.

I doubt people commit suicide because of a profession. They commit suicide, in my view, because of underlying mental issues that have been exacerbated by working and social pressures. The current recessionary environment has increased such pressures on broad swathes of society. There was for example the case of a bank official who worked in Anglo Irish who committed suicide because he couldn't handle the abuse that customers doled out.

Instead of screening for psychological flags before allowing people enter the taxi (or indeed any other potentially stressful) profession however, I think a campaign aimed at directing help and assistance towards people who may be at risk would be more beneficial. This can be directed not only towards taxi drivers, but more broadly across society.

As for the separate issue of deregulation, I've had this discussion too often with taxi drivers. I am of the view that a properly functioning market should have a balance of customers and suppliers of a service. I've heard stories of taxi drivers working 14hours+ days just to make ends meet, and it can't be good for passengers to have tired, overworked drivers bringing them from one place to another. However the solution to this is not to cap numbers, it is to introduce standards such that those taxi drivers that are sufficiently good (knowledgeable about the area, are able to deliver a high standard of customer service) stay.

mikemac · 29-10-2010 11:33am

deandean wrote: »

There must be something about taxi drivers that skews the stats. . Perhaps those who are more prone to suicide tend to end up as taxi drivers?

Isolation, talk to your steering wheel all day.

Much the same in farming, another lonely job with people on their own all day.

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

The fact is that taxi drivers still want to make as much money as possible by doing as little work as possible and so won't even contemplate asking for fares to be lowered.

Is there anyone in Ireland who doesn't want to make lots of money for little effort in their job? I definitely want to achieve that
But sure, they do need to be flexible.

coffee_cake · 29-10-2010 11:33am

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Property Developers.

http://www.joe.ie/news-politics/current-affairs/29-property-developers-committed-suicide-during-recession-006081-1

Basically it seems that groups that are 100% out for themselves and have very little public support seem to be playing the suicide card.

Mmm
and:

10. National Traveller Suicide Awareness Project "let someone know" project

The National Traveller Suicide Awareness Project is in a position to work with four projects over the next year to develop some positive mental health work with young Travellers .As part of the letsomeone know youth mental health campaign we received some extra funding to develop the work further.

If you have a group of young Travellers and would like to do some work with them around promoting positive mental health then please contact the National Traveller Suicide Awareness project. Four groups can participate in this project and they can each avail of 1,500 Euro towards the cost of the project.

the_syco · 29-10-2010 11:36am

How many of the 35 who committed suicide became a taxi person after deregulation?

It really is becoming a dying trade

/gets coat

The Waltzing Consumer · 29-10-2010 11:37am

Suicide is a heart-breaking event and it is something that will effect a family and friends for ever.

It is a great thing that taxi men have a strong bond and help a respectful vigil for their members who have taken their own lives.

It may be the article, and if it is the journalist, they should be ashamed, but this

"Organiser Lisa Corr said there had been two notable clusters of suicides, the first last August and then again last week.

She said some of those who died were well known around Dublin.

"These deaths have upset the industry an awful lot," she said. "The recession has hit everyone across the country but there are too many cars on the roads and that is hitting our industry hard.

"There are 11,000 drivers in Dublin now. That is more than in New York for the population," she said."

To use suicide as another media weapon to further their aims is disgusting. I hope the taxi drivers who held this silent vigil are disgusted with this woman, first talking about these tragedies, then using these events as a reason to get less taxis on the road.

Like I said, if it was the paper that shaped the article on purpose like this, shame on them, but if this is accurate, shame on anyone who wants to use suicide to try and gain economically and as a bargaining chip.

The Waltzing Consumer · 29-10-2010 11:39am

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Fair deal? Exactly how much work do they wanna do for 15 quid?

I've said it a million times and I'll say it again. People would be way more inclined to get a taxi if it was half the price it is now. The fact is that taxi drivers still want to make as much money as possible by doing as little work as possible and so won't even contemplate asking for fares to be lowered.

Yeah I agree with you. So where was the Spar?

jackiebaron · 29-10-2010 11:42am

bluewolf wrote: »

Faceman, I don't think these two paragraphs follow.
There ARE generally underlying mental health issues. I doubt people wake up and go "well I'm broke, might as well top myself".
There are campaigns all over the place to show that just because you appear happy and have everything going for you, doesn't mean you aren't depressed and suicidal.
So for the taxi people to imply and campaign based on "losing their jobs = suicide" like it's some simple link and some simple easily cleared up matter is doing nothing to help the cause of prevention and awareness. It brings us right back to "if you have a job you must be happy what would you have to be sad about" thinking and undermines the work done to date.

There DOES need to be more funding and campaigning on suicide prevention and awareness but this is not going to help and I sincerely doubt that any action arising from it will be more than superficial. I would like to think I am wrong but I doubt it.

Very good point. Research has shown that depression and alcoholism is rife among members of professions such as doctors and police officers whose sole task (in the grand scheme of things) is to slow down the inevitable whereas some of the happiest workers are those who produce on a daily basis something of beauty or at least admiration such as carpenters, cleaners, etc.
Taxi drivers live a solitary existence whilst working. The extent of human interaction for them is with drunks, idiots or people who just don't want to talk to them. Not only that but most of them work during the night and we all know how lack of sunlight affects suicidal tendencies (Seattle, Finland).

Again, I'm sure the usual suspects will come out screaching "Screw 'em! They chose this job!" I don't care what you say. Suicide is a serious problem and is a very miserable blight on the human condition.

I've sometimes thought about suicide myself. Not because I'm in financial difficulties or am depressed. I'm not. It's more of a curiosity for want of a better word..as if to say to myself "there's so much on this planet to see and I know I don't have time and will never see it" ... so why not just move to the next level now and get this part of the game over with. But I have neither the courage nor the need to explore this avenue. Those who DO truly contemplate suicide and those misfortunes who act upon it are in a place that I can only imagine as the lowest pits of utter loneliness.

coffee_cake · 29-10-2010 11:48am

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Fair deal? Exactly how much work do they wanna do for 15 quid?

Work that costs less than 15 euro petrol round trip
:pac:

I've said it a million times and I'll say it again. People would be way more inclined to get a taxi if it was half the price it is now. The fact is that taxi drivers still want to make as much money as possible by doing as little work as possible and so won't even contemplate asking for fares to be lowered.

Well some do, a friend got a trip to maynooth half price one day I think
depends on the driver
I can't understand "sure that's too close to be worth my time" attitude though
I don't refuse simple/quick tasks at work because "they're not worth my time" :rolleyes:

Naos · 29-10-2010 11:49am

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

Just out of curiosity, where was the Spar? From Blanch so wanna know if 15 was a fair deal

Sorry, that was stupid of me! Westmoreland St. in Dublin.

Naos · 29-10-2010 11:50am

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Fair deal? Exactly how much work do they wanna do for 15 quid?

I've said it a million times and I'll say it again. People would be way more inclined to get a taxi if it was half the price it is now. The fact is that taxi drivers still want to make as much money as possible by doing as little work as possible and so won't even contemplate asking for fares to be lowered.

Exactly. I've a local taxi man who says 15e to Dub town, 20e to the Airport. He'll pick up 4 people for that fare. I've given his number to loads of people and he's told me he is constantly busy, raking it in.

The Waltzing Consumer · 29-10-2010 11:52am

Naos wrote: »

Sorry, that was stupid of me! Westmoreland St. in Dublin.

All right, yeah that's fine. Bit silly of them not to take it, especially since you raised it to 17. Journey should only cost 20 at most these days. Shopping about pays off.

Their loss!

35 taxi drivers commit suicide in the last year.

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