35 taxi drivers commit suicide in the last year.

Gunsfortoys

Was listening to Newstalk this morning and heard this worrying statistic. Done a bit of research on the internet and only found this article on Google. It is a frightening statistic to say the least and it is a shame the regulator will not listen to the plight of these men.

TAXI drivers gathered at Áras an Uachtaráin last night to hold a silent vigil to remember the high number of drivers who have taken their own lives in light of the recession.

Organisers of the vigil estimate that up 25 drivers have committed suicide in the last two years due to the economic pressure which has mounted upon them.

Organiser Lisa Corr said there had been two notable clusters of suicides, the first last August and then again last week.

She said some of those who died were well known around Dublin.

"These deaths have upset the industry an awful lot," she said. "The recession has hit everyone across the country but there are too many cars on the roads and that is hitting our industry hard.

"There are 11,000 drivers in Dublin now. That is more than in New York for the population," she said.

Taxi unions have been calling for some time for the industry regulator to put a cap on the number of licenses being issued so that drivers can find it easier to make a living.

John Usher from the Irish Taxi Drivers Federation, who said he was aware of nine suicides amongst taxi men in the last year, said a lot of drivers had seen their cars or houses re-possessed.

Last night’s silent candlelight vigil was addressed by representatives from suicide support organisation Console.

Organisers said they hoped their action would draw the Government’s attention to the tragedies which the industry had suffered.

Anyone who needs support should contact Console’s 1Life suicide helpline on 1800 247100.

Article

curlzy

:mad::eek::(

While I don't regard any suicide lightly, they used to be laughing at customers and now finally we can get taxis when we please. I've no sympathy on deregulation.

But RIP anyway and condolences to families

who what when

Are you sure its in the last year? I heard it too but could have sworn it was the last 2 years. Shocking either way though!

OutlawPete

Gunsfortoys wrote: »

Was listening to Newstalk this morning and heard this worrying statistic. Done a bit of research on the internet and only found this article on Google. It is a frightening statistic to say the least and it is a shame the regulator will not listen to the plight of these men.

Few months ago a Taxi driver told me that he knew three regulars from the Cleary's rank that had topped themselves in the space of three months.

They government allowed a monopoly exsist for Taxi drivers for years and would never do anything about it, then when they do - they made a mess of that also and now the Taxi Industry is in ruins.

bonerm

35 taxi drivers commit suicide in the last year.

estimate that up 25 drivers have committed suicide in the last two year

Great to realise that taxi drivers are just generally vague when it comes to numbers and that their constant pissing around with people fares isn't deliberate or personal.

Gunsfortoys

who what when wrote: »

Are you sure its in the last year? I heard it too but could have sworn it was the last 2 years. Shocking either way though!

Yes, the article I posted was from July this year, at that stage 25 drivers commited suicides since August of 2009. It has jumped to 35 since then as I heard on Newstalk this morning. A very high number of lives in a short space of time. The fact that still, noone is listening is very disturbing.

curlzy

OutlawPete wrote: »

They government allowed a monopoly exsist for Taxi drivers for years and would never do anything about it, then when they do - they made a mess of that also and now the Taxi Industry is in ruins.

This is spot on, the government ruined the taxi industry the same why they've screwed up with housing. The price of a taxi plate was up to 75k before deregulation so people were planning on using them as retirement funds. Now they're worth 2k if even and you can't even earn a wage with them. Don't blame the taxi drivers, blame the government, they just pulled the rug out from under an entire industry with zero preparation.

Big Mouth

Hopefully don't sound too harsh here but they were alright when they were earning 1,500 - 2000 grand on a weekend.

Times are hard for everyone, its not the most stressful job in the world and I would think pays fairly well considering its a no skills / qualifications job.

tonedef

As a matter of interest, does anyone know what this is in terms of a percentage of the taxi drivers in the country? Is it higher than the percentage of suicides in the population as a whole?

It'a a shocking number without any context to judge it against

Saadyst

I don't know, it's a tough one alright.

On the one hand, I don't think they should put a cap on the number of taxi licences that can be issued - then it just becomes first come, first served, which is unfair for any newcomers to the business. Also the increased competition should result in a drop in prices, or increased service, quality etc.

On the other, obviously there's way too many taxis for a reliable income to be made for some - but I don't think that it is the government's job to step in and start subsidising or anything of that nature.

Scambuster

Big shwing. 1000 people have killed themselves in the last two years. How many IT workers are in there? Who cares.

bonerm

dillon1 wrote: »

As a matter of interest, does anyone know what this is in terms of a percentage of the taxi drivers in the country? Is it higher than the percentage of suicides in the population as a whole?

It'a a shocking number without any context to judge it against

Irelands suicide rate in 2008 was 9.3 according to this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate#cite_note-eurostat-3

If you do the simple Maths on the taxi driver numbers provided in the title the number would be 318.0

Gunsfortoys

Scambuster wrote: »

Big shwing. 1000 people have killed themselves in the last two years. How many IT workers are in there? Who cares.

I am sure you don't care, however there are families and friends of these drivers that might think different. What have IT workers got to do with it exactly?

Overheal

Scambuster wrote: »

Big shwing. 1000 people have killed themselves in the last two years. How many IT workers are in there? Who cares.

It's a matter of public interest when the societal rate of suicide shoots up.

jackiebaron

Scambuster wrote: »

Big shwing. 1000 people have killed themselves in the last two years. How many IT workers are in there? Who cares.

Hmm...are you going for shock value?

Scambuster

I don't care any more for one suicide than another depending on their profession. Using suicides for political reasons is fairly reprehensible.

Morlar

bluewolf wrote: »

While I don't regard any suicide lightly, they used to be laughing at customers and now finally we can get taxis when we please. I've no sympathy on deregulation.

But RIP anyway and condolences to families

That's exactly my response to this too. The taxi driver industry took the TOTAL piss out of consumers for years and years and years. They still would be if they had not been stopped. They had zero sympathy for leaving people waiting HOURS in the rain on a daily basis when they had a total monopoly so they brought de-regulation entirely on themselves.

Suicide is on the rise among non taxi drivers too, private sector males made redundant are equally susceptible to this in my opinion.

I think the general suicide figures are through the roof and have been going up for the last couple of years with little mention in the media.

Snakeblood

Saadyst wrote: »

I don't know, it's a tough one alright.

On the one hand, I don't think they should put a cap on the number of taxi licences that can be issued - then it just becomes first come, first served, which is unfair for any newcomers to the business. Also the increased competition should result in a drop in prices, or increased service, quality etc.

On the other, obviously there's way too many taxis for a reliable income to be made for some - but I don't think that it is the government's job to step in and start subsidising or anything of that nature.

What should happen is that taxi drivers who can't make a living should find something else to do. It's bad because the ones who can't make a decent living will probably be the ones who need to sleep or eat and aren't on the job all day. I don't think restricting numbers again will fix it. Taxi drivers had the chance to ease the transition to lower regulation, and they dug their heels in, blocked traffic and this is the consequence. The brakes were taken off deregulation because of intransigence.

It's a shame when anyone takes their own life.

Overheal

Scambuster wrote: »

I don't care any more for one suicide than another depending on their profession. Using suicides for political reasons is fairly reprehensible.

So basically you're saying theres no place for society to investigate the causes of a sharp increase in suicides? I guess schools in the US don't have to rethink their policies at all then, they should just continue letting gay teenagers kill themselves.

It's not irrelevant that they were taxi drivers. Stop making it out like they killed themselves to make a political point.

doolox

20 years ago we saw the end of communism and supposed that this marked the end of "big government" as characterised by Reagan and others, such as Thatcher in the 80's.

The 90's and the first 10 years of this century saw the illusory rise of free market forces and, somehow, the market would dictate the supply of manpower and resources to a given service.

The trouble is that there are a number of large commitments to be made to enter the taxi business and the potential earnings, from what I can see now with huge queues outside Heuston stn. , Blanch SC and other obvious public spaces, it takes a long time to get back the investment. It doesnt take a genius to figure out the waiting time at any place from putting a stopwatch on the time it takes the lead driver of any queue to get a fare then multiply that by the 60-80 cars waiting at these places where in the older days there might be a dozen.

Lucan village is the same, where there were one or two there are now dozens vying for trade at any time.

The government will have to move back to some level of regulation and common planning with a proper career and development structure, fleet management and public relations work to get the public on side.

The present situation is not healthy and if alternative employment becomes available there will be an inevitable exodus from the taxi trade to the detriment of the public.

I'd say a lot of taxi drivers would bail out now if they hadn't commited themselves to new cars, licences, driving courses and other entry requirements, a lot of which were paid for by loans from Credit Unions at high interest rates.....these are seldom rich people who can strike a low rate for loans.

Either which way the govt have made a complete mess of the taxi regulation and must act fast to stabilise the industry.

Any sector they left "free" has collapsed from over supply and and bad planning and they have had to intervene to prevent disaster. It looks to me as if we are facing the collapse of free market "laissez faire" economics which dominated Ireland fro the last 20 years. What will replace it I don't know.

Gunsfortoys

Scambuster wrote: »

I don't care any more for one suicide than another depending on their profession. Using suicides for political reasons is fairly reprehensible.

Ok grand, let the government flood the market in your particular sector and take away your livelihood.

The point is that, what could be a very easy problem to fix isn't being looked at. Some of these men could have had families, it has already been said that some were well known in Dublin so I doubt that they were known for anything bad.

This is all very preventable, but I suppose people have a right to be picky on who commits suicide.:rolleyes:

OutlawPete

doolox wrote: »

I'd say a lot of taxi drivers would bail out now if they hadn't commited themselves to new cars, licences, driving courses and other entry requirements, a lot of which were paid for by loans from Credit Unions at high interest rates.....these are seldom rich people who can strike a low rate for loans.

Great post.

This country started to learn the price of everything and the value of nothing.

senordingdong

Many people are finding it hard to make a living.

Maybe they should have worried more about going out working instead building up so much debt for themselves.

Scambuster

Doolox unfortunatly this is the free Market in action and it is merciless but it is a price worth paying. If you can't make money in a business then get out of it for your own health.

Overheal...I don't think the taxi drivers were looking towards martyrdom but their union leaders are looking to turn them into martyrs.

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

professore

Gunsfortoys wrote: »

Ok grand, let the government flood the market in your particular sector and take away your livelihood.

The Government are not "flooding the market" as you put it, the taxi drivers themselves are. It's a low skilled job, with low barriers to entry. Anyone who can drive can set themselves up as a taxi driver. A lot of sectors in the economy are not protected at all. This has been the way for decades. It's tough but that's life.

How many ex-construction workers have committed suicide? Should the government only allow there to be 2000 builders in the country? Makes no sense. Just as the restrictive practices that prevent teachers teaching in secondary school unless they have Irish is ridiculous and hurting our economy. Do you really think learning French from a native speaker or someone from Ireland is better ?

COMPETITION IS GOOD ....

Gmol

Morlar wrote: »

That's exactly my response to this too. The taxi driver industry took the TOTAL piss out of consumers for years and years and years. They still would be if they had not been stopped. They had zero sympathy for leaving people waiting HOURS in the rain on a daily basis when they had a total monopoly so they brought de-regulation entirely on themselves.

Suicide is on the rise among non taxi drivers too, private sector males made redundant are equally susceptible to this in my opinion.

I think the general suicide figures are through the roof and have been going up for the last couple of years with little mention in the media.

Totally agree with the above

mikemac

Nobody wanted to pay 75k for plate
It was deregulated, plates are 6k I think now.
Seems drivers want the cheaper plate but close the market the day after I get mine.

The drivers needs to help themselves, too many unions, there are three at least and these unions argue among themselves.
Why not one good union with the best representatives you can find?

Snakeblood

doolox wrote: »

I'd say a lot of taxi drivers would bail out now if they hadn't commited themselves to new cars, licences, driving courses and other entry requirements, a lot of which were paid for by loans from Credit Unions at high interest rates.....these are seldom rich people who can strike a low rate for loans.

On purely anecdotal evidence, I've never been in a new taxi. It's possible people were buying new cars when they were making good money taxiing but I'm sure I was never in one. It wouldn't have made any sense to buy a new car considering the massive depreciation in a new car.

After that, if it's what, 2 grand for plates, 16 for a psv licence, 750-850 for a meter, 220 for a roof sign, 5 grand a year for taxi insurance. -Based on a google.

If it all goes tits up you can sell your car for something, cancel the insurance, and I don't see how people end up massively in debt unless they are putting their money somewhere else that is unrelated to being a taxi driver.

I mean, I'm not unsympathetic, and there obviously is a problem.

The 90's for what it's worth, I remember queuing in Stephen's green for hours for a taxi because I lived beyond walking distance. I remember walking home to Ballinteer with no cabs stopping to pick me up, and I remember seeing a long train of people walking up through rathmines all attempting to hail taxis on the walk back from town every saturday night.

professore

doolox wrote: »

The trouble is that there are a number of large commitments to be made to enter the taxi business and the potential earnings, from what I can see now with huge queues outside Heuston stn. , Blanch SC and other obvious public spaces, it takes a long time to get back the investment. It doesnt take a genius to figure out the waiting time at any place from putting a stopwatch on the time it takes the lead driver of any queue to get a fare then multiply that by the 60-80 cars waiting at these places where in the older days there might be a dozen.

That same genius won't then go into the taxi business.

doolox wrote: »

The present situation is not healthy and if alternative employment becomes available there will be an inevitable exodus from the taxi trade to the detriment of the public.

NO .... to the advantage of those left who can then make a living from the taxi trade. Perhaps big taxi companies who can buy and run cars in bulk and achieve economies of scale. There are still those in the business being supported by Celtic Tiger era loans. These will fall out, and the remaining operators will make a living. Also no-one mentioned that there are LESS PEOPLE needing taxis now because of the recession.

dave1982

Another taxi driver sob story.Suicide is very sad but why did they do it.Couldn't pay loans mortgage etc.So they kill themselves and let wife and kids alone to pay what they couldn't pay as a family unit.

I feel sorry for who they left behind not the taxi drivers and to use these stats as a way for them to get what they want off the government is not on.

Ordinary people kill themselves aswell

There are approximately 400 deaths from suicide per year in Ireland at present. Medical research confirms that the vast majority of such deaths occur in people who have depression, or who suffer from other illnesses such as schizophrenia, panic attacks, or alcohol or drug problems. If these illnesses had been treated, such deaths might well have been prevented in a significant number of cases

Thats less than 10% taxi drivers forget the rest its the taxi drivers that matter.Its a joke

Nodin

Suffice to say that the shift from overregulation to a free for all in terms of plates was too extreme a move....

senordingdong

Snakeblood wrote: »

I remember walking home to Ballinteer with no cabs stopping to pick me up, and I remember seeing a long train of people walking up through rathmines all attempting to hail taxis on the walk back from town every saturday night.

I remember similar things myself, 'well go to the rank buddy, I'm only workin the rank'
Yeah.
Good man.

Snakeblood

Nodin wrote: »

Suffice to say that the shift from overregulation to a free for all in terms of plates was too extreme a move....

But the people to blame for that are the taxidrivers of the time of deregulation who fought it tooth and nail and would not come to an agreement and who are likely now the ones who are unwilling\unable to work the long hours necessary to make the money.

Anyone who came in since then got cheap plates and presumably less of a financial burden on entry to the market. Anyone before then has been living in the market for over 10 years and hopefully would have profited in the good times pre-meltdown.

mikemac

dave1982 wrote: »

Another taxi driver sob story.Suicide is very sad but why did they do it.Couldn't pay loans mortgage etc.So they kill themselves and let wife and kids alone to pay what they couldn't pay as a family unit.

If a man can't support his family he feels pretty worthless.

Plus there is isolation, rural farmers would be right up there for suicide rates too. Irregular income and lots of debt

senordingdong

Nodin wrote: »

Suffice to say that the shift from overregulation to a free for all in terms of plates was too extreme a move....

Perhaps there should have been some sort of renumeration scheme to make up the cost that the older drivers had to pay for their plates, but a free market was exactly what that industry needed.

mikemac

senordingdong wrote: »

Perhaps there should have been some sort of renumeration scheme to make up the cost that the older drivers had to pay for their plates,

There was a scheme, some but not all got compensation

Snakeblood

senordingdong wrote: »

I remember similar things myself, 'well go to the rank buddy, I'm only workin the rank'
Yeah.
Good man.

AND CHRISTMAS. JESUS CHRIST. Traumatising. Queuing for hours in town in the afternoon trying to get presents home.

TwoShedsJackson

And how do they know that all these suicides are related to the recession and/or deregulation of the industry. Any of these guys could have topped themselves for any reason, mental/physical illness, alcoholism anything.

smellslikeshoes

Every industry is struggling at the moment but you don't see electricians, plumbers, builders etc. calling for a cap on people in their respective trades. Taxi drivers are just like anyone else providing a service and the sooner they realise that the better.

Snakeblood

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

And how do they know that all these suicides are related to the recession and/or deregulation of the industry. Any of these guys could have topped themselves for any reason, mental/physical illness, alcoholism anything.

It was an incorrect number initially.

I think the point would be that If this were a real number, then it's worthy of investigation to see if the demographic was really in trouble, if it's something to do with taxiing specifically.

Toes

Very sad for all involved.

Maybe put a cap on the number of plates that could be given out and make it more expensive to get into the industry. How about government set rates per mile in line with yearly increases in fuel costs etc..

Probably a bit idealistic but maybe it would make things a bit more equitable?

Or we could try and get a public transportation system thats not completely f**cked and try and provide safe and more secure jobs?

gent9662

It's a shocking statistic but I wonder how this number compares to the number of other professions say for example the construction industry.

I would speculate that the majority of these people were ones that held expensive plates. It's not as easy for them to emigrate unlike other professions.


Still have to say it is shocking!

bigneacy

Toes wrote: »

Maybe put a cap on the number of plates that could be given out and make it more expensive to get into the industry. How about government set rates per mile in line with yearly increases in fuel costs etc..

Yeah... The bar trade is in trouble too. I'd say start with restricting it to one bar man per bar. To make sure he earns enough in tips.
Or you could make pint glasses really expensive, to make sure only the really determined can enter into the industry.

Get a grip.

De-regulation is a good thing. Going backwards is not.

RIP to all those who took their own lives, but I feel sorry for their families. Completely selfish thing to do.

Morlar

smellslikeshoes wrote: »

Every industry is struggling at the moment but you don't see electricians, plumbers, builders etc. calling for a cap on people in their respective trades. Taxi drivers are just like anyone else providing a service and the sooner they realise that the better.

Or all the IT workers whose jobs are filled by e.europeans willing to work for less or whose jobs are going to india, china etc etc.

PCPhoto

Snakeblood wrote: »

It was an incorrect number initially.

I think the point would be that If this were a real number, then it's worthy of investigation to see if the demographic was really in trouble, if it's something to do with taxiing specifically.

maybe they cant get a "real" number because some of those that took their own lives might well have been "part-time" taxi drivers ...or may have been known for driving a taxi (but may not have been actually permitted to)

there are/were plenty of people who jumped on the bandwagon setting themselves up as a taxi-driver once deregulation came in.

I do have sympathy for those families who have lost a loved one - but its disgraceful for the taxi industry to use these deaths and "skew" statistics and then claim that its the governments fault these people took their own lives.

I remember the days before deregulation and taxi's were almost impossible to get at that stage - nights out were a disaster......as others have mentioned the taxi industry is not the only one to have suffered a loss of "members" ...I dare say there is probably a higher rate of suicide amongst former construction workers - but they have not highlighted their loss.

Personally I think a coloured system should be adopted - where a taxi plate/car is only permitted to be a particular colour and is restricted to a certain number of hours in the day (if caught by gardai or other taxi drivers to be operating outside of the alotted hours - plate/driver are fined or 5penalty points added - the more experienced/longer a driver is working as a taxi driver the more colours he has on his plate ...and the more he is permitted on the road.

Since this is after hours
Taxi drivers should look at the fact there is less competition left on the roads (bad taste I know - but its meant in jest ...this is after hours !!)

Yakult

So taxi drivers are the new emos now?

Overheal

Toes wrote: »

Very sad for all involved.

Maybe put a cap on the number of plates that could be given out and make it more expensive to get into the industry. How about government set rates per mile in line with yearly increases in fuel costs etc..

Probably a bit idealistic but maybe it would make things a bit more equitable?

You're thinking of a Planned Economy. That would put you inline with Cold War Russia, China, and Cuba; and Modern day Iran, North Korea, etc.

Jumpy

Overheal wrote: »

So basically you're saying theres no place for society to investigate the causes of a sharp increase in suicides? I guess schools in the US don't have to rethink their policies at all then, they should just continue letting gay teenagers kill themselves.

It's not irrelevant that they were taxi drivers. Stop making it out like they killed themselves to make a political point.

I dont think thats what he meant.

If you read the OP it talks about how sad it is that the regulator wont listen. That is the political point that I believe he refers to. People dont kill themselves generally to make a political point in developed nations.

arybvtcw0eolkf

R_H_C_P wrote: »

So taxi drivers are the new emos now?

I know I really shouldn't, but...

snigger