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N24 Limerick-Waterford upgrade

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭Amtmann


    That would be Ballysimon to Pallasgreen. I think we could see Pallasgreen to Cahir done within six or seven years.

    Of the other N24 schemes, Ballysimon to Pallasgreen needs doing, but it is a relatively straight (if narrow) section of road and is not comparable, danger-wise, to the sections of the N24 between Pallasgreen and Cahir. That said, multiple roadside memorials can be seen along it.

    Cahir-Rathkeevin:

    This is the one that has Con Traas, the owner of the Apple Farm, so upset. I have never met Con, but from what I've seen of him, I like him. I really think he's just misguided on this one. His site hasn't been updated in a while, but I'm sure the issue will rear its head again. His position is certainly untenable, as the section of the current N24 that the Cahir-Rathkeevin scheme would replace is actually a serious accident blackspot, where several fatalities have occurred, at least one in the past two years. I believe Con has advocated an online upgrade if possible. The problem is that it's not possible: the alignment is too sinuous and bumpy, and the area is littered with private accesses. I note from the proposed route corridor (see image below) that the new road could well cut through the Apple Farm, which would be a pity. Ultimately, however, that's just his tough luck.

    By the way, 3km of this scheme are already built and open: it's the 2+1 Cahir Bypass section of the N24 that opened with the M8 in 2007. The NRA will convert this to 2+2 in time, according to the N24 Prioritisation Study.

    N24 Cahir-Rathkeevin
    n24map.jpg


    ***

    The Clonmel Bypass, which would run from Rathkeevin to Kilheffernan (i.e., to the current N76 turn-off on the current N24) was at a very unadvanced stage of planning when it was suspended.

    ***

    The Carrick-on-Suir Bypass would run from Kilheffernan to the Piltown 2+1 section. According to a report in the Clonmel Nationalist a few weeks ago, this project is not dead and a public consultation document will shortly issue to the public.

    ***

    The priority must be (and is) Pallasgreen to Cahir.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭Amtmann


    Just saw this update on [url]www.southtippcoco.ie:[/url]
    N24 Pallasgreen to Cahir

    The Route Selection Reports for the N24 Pallasgreen to Bansha and the N24 Bansha to Cahir Road Improvement Schemes were approved in 2003 and the Part 8 Planning Process for a wide single carriageway for the Pallasgreen to Bansha Section was completed in December 2004.

    The above Scheme now incorporates the previous Pallasgreen to Bansha, and Cahir to Bansha schemes into a single project. As part of a strategic review of the N24 corridor, following an NRA decision to ensure the route can be constructed to dual carriageway standard, a potential new route option has been identified for the Cahir to Bansha section of the route. This new route option amends the previous published preferred route at the eastern end of the scheme on approach to the new M8 Cloghabreedy motorway junctioin and provides full connectiviity to this junction. This section of the scheme also crosses the River Suir, a designated European conservation site. Further studies are being undertaken on the proposed river crossing location to ensure any potential impacts on the conservation site are minimised. Once this study is completed a Route Comparison Report for the Cahir to Bansha section shall be published to document the findings of the review. It is anticipated that this report will be published before the end of 2010, following which public consultations shall be held.

    Consultants Roughan O'Donovan were appointed in August 2010 to undertake an Environmental Impact Statement (EIS) for the scheme. The EIS process shall assess the potential environmental impacts of the scheme and shall encompass field surveys, desktop studies and research, consultations with statutory and other bodies, consultations with landowners and drafting of reports. The EIS shall be undertaken in accordance with European and Irish legislation and it is expected to be completed in late 2011. The preliminary design of the scheme will be further developed in tandem with the EIS and shall be used to determine land take requirements for the prepartion of a Compulsory Purchase Order (CPO) for the Scheme.

    The progress of the scheme design and EIS shall require consultations with affected landowners at various stages and access to lands to undertake non-intrusive field surveys. All such contracts shall be managed centrally by South Tipperary County Council. It is anticipated that the EIS and CPO for the scheme will be prepared before the end of 2011. Upon approval by the NRA to publish the EIS and CPO, an Oral Hearing would be convened by An Bord Pleanala.

    Further progress of the scheme is dependent on confirmation of the CPO and approval of the Road Scheme by An Bord Pleanala and on funding for the construction phase.

    I'm going to try my best to get my hands on some of the documentation for this scheme and to put it online.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭Amtmann


    A public consultation on both the Carrick-on-Suir and Clonmel Bypasses will take place in Band Hall, Clonmel, on 21 October between 2 and 8pm.
    N24 Carrick on Suir By-Pass

    The Route Selection report for the above Scheme was approved in 2003 and the Part 8 Planning Process for a wide single carriageway was completed in December 2004.

    A review of the preferred route for the Scheme was initiated in 2008. This review arose from an NRA decision to ensure that the route can be constructed to dual carriageway standard. Furthermore there was a need to consider the significant changes experienced within the study area since a preferred route was published in 2001. These changes, as occurred during unprecendented levels of economic growth, include increased levels of development and traffic volumes. The review found that the expansion of Carrick on Suir Town up to and beyond the previously preferred route corridor had created additional adverse impacts, particularly in terms of noise, air quality, severance and cost. New route options were therefore identified and developed to confirm the optional corridor for the Scheme.

    A new Route Selection Report has been prepared in accordance with NRA Project Appraisal Guidelines 2008 which recommends a new preferred route corridor. The route connects with the preferred route corridor of the proposed Clonmel By-pass to form a continuous future N24 corridor. It replicates the previous route along substantial sections of the western half of the Scheme before bypassing Carrick on Suir on a wider arc to the north of the town, avoiding the extent of the town boundary, and extending into County Kilkenny.

    Due to the identification of this new preferred route corridor, it is proposed to undertake a new public consultation process in order to inform the public and consult with affected landowners. Public consultations are scheduled for mid October .

    Following confirmation and approval of the selected route it shall be referred to the planning departments of South Tipperary and Kilkenny County Council's for incorporation into the relevant development plans. The objective at present is to close out the Route Corridor Selection Phase of the project and establish the Route Corridor for the Scheme. The next phase in the scheme programme is publication of an Environmental Impact Statement (EIS) and a Compulsory Purchase Order.
    N24 Clonmel Outer Bypass

    The emerging Preferred Route was submitted for public consultation in 2006.

    Following the public consultation excercise, which attracted a significant number of submissions, a review of the section of route crossing the townslands of Orchardstown, Ballyvaheen, Caherclogh and Kilmore were initiated. This was in order to further examine a substantial number of concerns raised about the chosen route in this area and to further assess specific alternative routes presented for the area. The review also arose from an NRA decision to ensure that the route can be constructed to dual carriageway standard.

    The review has now been concluded and Route Comparison Report has been prepared to record its findings. The report concludes that a hybrid route, combining aspects of the original preferred route and one of the identified alternative routes offers the best solution and recommends that it be adopted as the preferred route for the scheme in this area. The original preferred route remains unchanged outside this localised area.

    Due to the identification of a paritally amneded preferred route, it is proposed to consult directly with the affected landowners and undertake a new public consultation process. Public consultations are scheduled for mid October. Following confirmation and approval of the selected route it shall be referred to the planning department of South Tipperary County Council for incorporation into the relevant development plans. The objective at present is to close out the Route Corridor Selection Phase of the project and establish the route corridor for the Scheme in 2010.

    The next phase in the scheme programme is the publication of an Environmental Impact Statement (EIS) and a Compulsory Purchase Order (CPO).

    I'm going to go to this. I'll have the relevant documentation for those two schemes by the end of the month and will post it here if it hasn't been put up online by the County Council.

    I'm surprised actually, because I understood that both these schemes were suspended.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭Amtmann


    Just to make people aware that a public consultation meeting will be held in Band Hall, Clonmel, on Thursday 21 October between 2 and 8pm on the proposed routings of the Carrick-on-Suir Bypass and Clonmel Outer Bypass.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭Amtmann


    This is the latest plan for the Pallasgreen to Cahir scheme, complete with junction locations. This is the first time this image has been placed in the public domain.

    N24PallasgreentoCahirRouteCorridorMap1.jpg


  • Registered Users Posts: 761 ✭✭✭Jayuu


    Are these going to be grade-separated junctions?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭Amtmann


    Jayuu wrote: »
    Are these going to be grade-separated junctions?

    I'd say the primary access point for Tipp Town on the N74/N24 interchange might be grade-separated. The junction with the M8 will be a massive roundabout one level above the M8 mainline (the roundabout on the right of this image).
    Other junctions will almost certainly be mostly roundabouts or LILOS. I am informed that the design is still uncertain. For instance the route corridor from the Bansha junction to the M8 is subject to change. If the designers do alter it, then they will have to consult with the public. The EIS is due to be completed in late 2011.

    The looping section, where the N24 swings southward to parallel the M8 for 3km, is very close to my house. I won't be living here when the route goes to construction within the next six or seven years though.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,725 ✭✭✭charlemont


    Furet wrote: »
    Someone was killed between Tipp and Pallasgreen today: http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0930/rta.html

    Edit: RTE just changed the story; no one killed on the N24 thank goodness, but someone was seriously injured there. The EIS for Cahir to Pallasgreen is expected to be published in Q4 2011 according to the NRA.

    my son's teacher was in that accident, he will be out for some time too, so i hope he makes a speedy recovery..

    they will have fun trying to build the road by lower monard and solohead as the existing limerick rail line wont be easy to pass (best option to cross limerick line by oola), where the road crosses the dublin line, it will have to cross the new road that has recently being build opposite the quarry as the level crossings have been closed, all that area is boggy too.

    delighted a junction will be built at soloheadbeg, make things easy for me, i can drive to J10 and avoid the R662..

    ill take a guess at LILO junctions ..

    we will be waiting a long time before any of this is done.

    the people in tipp town should designate a day every month where they block up the town and create traffic chaos for an hour or two as martin mansergh has more interest in horses than cars..


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    charlemont wrote: »
    the people in tipp town should designate a day every month where they block up the town and create traffic chaos for an hour or two as martin mansergh has more interest in horses than cars..

    They should do it on a monday or friday seeing as Mansergh is most often in his constituency on those days. Tipp town and the run from there to Cahir is the absolute pits.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭Amtmann


    Will you be at the public consultation in Clonmel on the 21st charlemont? I might see you at it.

    The Carrick-on-Suir and Clonmel bypasses might still be "suspended" actually. If the route selection study was in progress when the 94 suspensions were announced a year ago (revised programme for government etc.), the NRA's policy would have been to complete the route selection studies and then mothball the projects. I'll be asking those questions on the 21st.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,725 ✭✭✭charlemont


    i wont be attending it , i think its all a public relations act but the sooner a definite route is chosen the better.

    if they ever have consultations on the cahir/bansha/pallasgreen road, id be there. tipp town will never grow or thrive until that road is built..


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭Amtmann


    charlemont wrote: »
    the people in tipp town should designate a day every month where they block up the town and create traffic chaos for an hour or two as martin mansergh has more interest in horses than cars..

    He's good for a laugh at least.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,600 ✭✭✭veryangryman


    Furet wrote: »
    He's good for a laugh at least.

    Who voted this guy in? Reveal yourselves please. I won't hurt you, i promise (may not be true)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭Amtmann


    Who voted this guy in? Reveal yourselves please. I won't hurt you, i promise (may not be true)

    Here, I'll throw you a bone: http://www.rte.ie/podcasts/2010/pc/pod-v-04101009m21stodaywithpatkenny.mp3


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 221 ✭✭TimmyTarmac


    Quick question..... mention was made in Furet's post of the Pallasgreen - Cahir dual carriageway being a PPP scheme. Would that mean that stretch of the N24 would be tolled if and when it's opened?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭Amtmann


    Quick question..... mention was made in Furet's post of the Pallasgreen - Cahir dual carriageway being a PPP scheme. Would that mean that stretch of the N24 would be tolled if and when it's opened?

    No; it would be a shadow toll, as all new PPPs will be. Please note that I merely made the suggestion that it could be put forward as a PPP in tandem with another road scheme elsewhere in the country (like Newlands Cross is being parcelled with the M11 between Arklow and Rathnew as a single PPP scheme). In reality there is very little prospect of the N24 being made part of a PPP scheme, which unfortunately means that it might not get built until 2015 or 2016.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 339 ✭✭DaveJac


    there at something on one of the bends between bansha and the silver sands, Not sure how to describe it worst bend on the road imo on a cross roads, doing alot of work in the field just inside the bend maybe making it straighter? and the bend in the section near the apple farm in the 65kph zone, a Track Machine and a few concrete bollards in the section of grass that bend should have been taken out of it years ago they have the lads ages, really hope they are going to do the 2 bends


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭Amtmann


    DaveJac wrote: »
    there at something on one of the bends between bansha and the silver sands, Not sure how to describe it worst bend on the road imo on a cross roads, doing alot of work in the field just inside the bend maybe making it straighter? and the bend in the section near the apple farm in the 65kph zone, a Track Machine and a few concrete bollards in the section of grass that bend should have been taken out of it years ago they have the lads ages, really hope they are going to do the 2 bends

    They're taking those bends out of it and straightening the alignment for 600m at both locations. They are also widening the section from Limerick Junction to Tipp town, though the geometry of the road will still make it unsafe for the traffic using it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 339 ✭✭DaveJac


    taught they were putting a footpath from tipp town to limerick junction? that was the plan for years anyway... its good they are straightening the other bends but why it wasnt done when the road was closed is beyoned me


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭Amtmann


    DaveJac wrote: »
    taught they were putting a footpath from tipp town to limerick junction? that was the plan for years anyway... its good they are straightening the other bends but why it wasnt done when the road was closed is beyoned me

    They certainly need a footpath there alright. However, the surfacing put down thusfar is identical to the surface on the rest of the road. We'll have to wait and see.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,725 ✭✭✭charlemont


    i saw them do the tarmacking last week and i did notice the surface was all the same but today i noticed another layer of tarmac down that only extended to the edge of the roadway, the right side (heading west) will be a footpath with an earthen mound (roughly knee high) dividing it from the roadway. they have most of the mound done when i passed earlier, fair play to them, they are doing the job quickly, its a pity all the existing route couldnt be done.

    They are doing tarmac on the monard curve between ballykisteen house and monard village too.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 221 ✭✭TimmyTarmac


    I've been looking at that earthen mound which will seperate the road from the path. It doesn't look like the safest thing to me. As mentioned, it doesn't look much more than knee high and wouldn't be much use if a car travelling at 80 kph or more was to veer off the road there.
    It's still better than walking on the road though, I guess.


  • Registered Users Posts: 158 ✭✭bogs


    what do you think of the road surface in carrick as your goin from clonmel to waterford N24.Im driving this section daily and i have never seen such neglect of a main thoroughfare in my life.It seems to be an obstacle course zig zag for a few kms.The manhole covers and surrounds are lethal and the cowboy operators that did this job should be exiled and not alone them but the Council that hired them to do the job,but what can you expect?.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,493 ✭✭✭cml387


    Work on removing a particularly lethal bend at Tankardstown (travelling towards Cahir it's the section about 0.5 km beyond the Apple Farm) is underway atm.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,071 ✭✭✭julyjane


    bogs wrote: »
    what do you think of the road surface in carrick as your goin from clonmel to waterford N24.Im driving this section daily and i have never seen such neglect of a main thoroughfare in my life.It seems to be an obstacle course zig zag for a few kms.The manhole covers and surrounds are lethal and the cowboy operators that did this job should be exiled and not alone them but the Council that hired them to do the job,but what can you expect?.

    I live in Carrick, it's a disgrace especially in front of the park near the traffic lights. On the side of the road where the pub/off licence is there is a dip in the road where I saw a laden trailer get stuck one day. I guess it's hard for them to do anything when it's both a national primary route and one of the main routes in the town. It's hard to get from anywhere to anywhere in the town without going along the N24 at some point. I guess they could arrange a diversion via the Mart/CBS primary school/back of the fair green and park but it would have to be done during the school holidays so they missed the boat there this year :mad:

    There are 2 lots of roadworks in Carrickbeg right now, that place is a traffic nightmare at the best of times. If you think going through Carrick from the Clonmel side is bad, it's worse for those driving from the Dungarvan side. I don't know how the truck and bus drivers do it.

    There was a public consultation in Carrick today, basically just giving people maps of the proposed route of the Carrick bypass. It's going to be about 100 yards from my front door, even though I live a bit out the country. I'm not against the bypass but there doesn't appear to be adequate access to or from the town onto the bypass. This could be a problem for the businesses in town who will want some of the passing trade to come into the down.

    If it ever happens :rolleyes: It would be great for Carrick because the present congestion is choking the town


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 687 ✭✭✭Magnum


    I've been looking at that earthen mound which will seperate the road from the path. It doesn't look like the safest thing to me. As mentioned, it doesn't look much more than knee high and wouldn't be much use if a car travelling at 80 kph or more was to veer off the road there.
    It's still better than walking on the road though, I guess.

    Its about time we got a footpath there , at least we can go out walking now and feel somewhat safe.

    I suppose they couldn't afford the kerbing for the stretch of road....


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭Amtmann


    Proposed Route of Clonmel Bypass, unveiled this week:
    DSCF3517.jpg

    Proposed Route of Carrick-on-Suir Bypass, also unveiled this week:
    DSCF3521.jpg


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 478 ✭✭wellbutty


    How did the public consultation go today Furet? Wanted to go but couldn't make it in the end


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭Amtmann


    wellbutty wrote: »
    How did the public consultation go today Furet? Wanted to go but couldn't make it in the end

    I was told on the phone the week before last that it would be on today, so I turned up at 3pm and the place was shut. It was on on Tuesday and I missed it. I saw no adverts for it these past weeks either.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭Amtmann


    I've been looking at that earthen mound which will seperate the road from the path. It doesn't look like the safest thing to me. As mentioned, it doesn't look much more than knee high and wouldn't be much use if a car travelling at 80 kph or more was to veer off the road there.
    It's still better than walking on the road though, I guess.

    It's ridiculous actually. A car that hit it would very quickly lose control. Also, the footpath does not need to be that wide. It just doesn't.

    I've posted images of the proposed Carrick and Clonmel bypass route corridors here. I think the Clonmel Bypass in particular veers rather too far north of the current road. That said, as a Type 2 Dual Carriageway the alignment, sightlines and overtaking possibilities will be excellent.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,536 ✭✭✭touts


    Furet wrote: »
    It's ridiculous actually. A car that hit it would very quickly lose control. Also, the footpath does not need to be that wide. It just doesn't.

    I've posted images of the proposed Carrick and Clonmel bypass route corridors here. I think the Clonmel Bypass in particular veers rather too far north of the current road. That said, as a Type 2 Dual Carriageway the alignment, sightlines and overtaking possibilities will be excellent.

    The whole footpath idea is ridiculous. For a fit person it must be a good 40 minute walk from the town center out to Limerick Junction. I can't see it being used by more than a couple of people a week to access the train station from the town. It might be used by people out for a casual walk but that's not what I want my tax spent on while services like Clonmel Hospital are being shut. In the current climate it's a total waste of money.

    There is a lot of work going on along the N24 at the moment. They are taking out some bends, widening and resurfacing other parts. Given all this money I fear they are preparing for an announcement that the N24 has seen "significant recent investment" and therefore the planned new route has been cancelled. I think we can forget about a bypass for Tipp town and Bansha for at least 15-20 years.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭Wild Bill


    Heck - we'd have twice the mileage of upgraded roads if all this ******* 'consultation' and endless process was never in place. We missed the (Celtic Tiger) boat.

    We should have built when we had the dosh, from start to finish in 3 years max.

    We Irish excel at debate, controversy, objections and general trainspotting but are crap at delivery :mad:.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,720 ✭✭✭serfboard


    Wild Bill wrote: »
    We Irish excel at debate, controversy, objections and general trainspotting but are crap at delivery :mad:.

    I disagree. Assuming Castletown-Nenagh is completed, if you take a period from December 2000->December 2010 we will have delivered all the interurbans plus sections of the Atlantic Corridor. It's a hell of an improvement in a relatively short period of time.
    Wild Bill wrote: »
    We should have built when we had the dosh

    We did. Now we haven't so we're not. Or at least we're kicking it to PPP, if the credit markets can be convinced that we won't default.
    Wild Bill wrote: »
    Heck - we'd have twice the mileage of upgraded roads if all this ******* 'consultation' and endless process was never in place.

    Yes, but you can't just ram through what you think is right, regardless of what people think. That's called fascism. If you agree with that, then I'm going to demolish your house to make way for a shopping centre, and you can get lost if you think I'm going to compensate you.

    I agree that parts of the process could probably be modified, but you cannot dismiss it altogether.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭Wild Bill


    serfboard wrote: »
    I agree that parts of the process could probably be modified, but you cannot dismiss it altogether.

    Course you can, or much of it - not 100% perhaps. If the democratically elected Government decides to abolish, say, 90% of the "process" then that is democracy.

    We very belatedly got the bulk of the MIUs completed between 2005 and this year. Blind luck rather than timely planning - we wasted the period 1995 - circa 2003 in endless debate (and not just about roads - virtually anything to do with infrastructure).

    We have barely tackled other Primary and Secondary routes and of course we have left such schemes as the M20/M18 and the other roads out West undone.

    Galway bypass is a classic example of what I'm talking about - indulging cranks at the expense of all the rest of us - now the money is gone. :cool:

    (In fact in the period 1995 to 2002 we could have built far more cheaply before the full inflationary effects of the property bubble kicked-in; had we got our act together in time. The early Tiger years were spent indulging tree-huggers on the N11 to snails and swans and ruins and any other thing the cranks could imagine on nearly every project proposed).


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    serfboard wrote: »
    if you take a period from December 2000->December 2010 we will have delivered all the interurbans plus sections of the Atlantic Corridor.

    If you class the origins of the routes from Galway to Dublin, Limerick to Dublin, Cork to Dublin an Newry to Dublin, then logicaly the routes between Cork and Limerick is an interurban route also.

    Very little if any of this has been upgraded in the last decade.

    Using the Nra's spin on what is and isn't an "interurban" serves no useful purpose other than make them look like great lads.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭Amtmann


    This is a short (c. 600m) realignment of the N24 between Bansha and Cahir, being undertaken to remove a bend in the current road (show below):

    DSCF3560.jpg

    DSCF3563.jpg

    It's not the worst bend by a long shot along this section of N24, but it is the only one where improvement works aren't constrained by one-off houses.

    DSCF3561.jpg

    DSCF3562.jpg

    DSCF3564.jpg

    DSCF3565.jpg

    DSCF3566.jpg

    DSCF3567.jpg


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,725 ✭✭✭charlemont


    iv been waiting to see them do that section for years, the land is theres since the 80,s and the fencing has been there as long as i can remember..


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭Irish and Proud


    Well it's good to see small jobs like this being done on the National Roads - it's certainly better than nothing and every little helps. I was on one such improvement East of Navan, Co. Meath on the N51 - actually drove it myself. About 2km of horrible road was eliminated - now the speed is 80k and the road has no hard shoulders (est: 8.0m pavement), but what an improvement! By the looks of things, the N24 job will also involve an 8.0m wide road - there's a similar job on the N11 near The Tap.

    :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,538 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    8M wide with no H/S is basically the UK standard for lower trafficed routes. Works perfectly well there. N24 might be a bit high-traffic but this is a sticking plaster job.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭Amtmann


    Attached.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭Amtmann


    I made this submission to the County Council regarding the Clonmel Bypass:

    Dear Sir/Madam,


    After studying the map of the emerging route corridor for the N24 Clonmel Bypass, I consider the inclusion of just two junctions at either end of the scheme to be insufficient. While I fully acknowledge that national primary roads are principally for long-distance traffic rather than for local use, the fact that the proposed route crosses two regional roads in quick succession presents an opportunity to better connect both Cashel and Fethard with the South East via the N24.

    If a junction is not included for these regional roads, motorists wishing to join the new N24 from either of these towns and their hinterlands will have to travel onto the existing Clonmel Relief Road (CRR) and then proceed east or west to join the N24. This will not only add to their journey times, but will also fail to eliminate as much of the through-traffic from the CRR as possible; furthermore, it will, over the course of years, increase carbon emissions by virtue of the increased journey times and resulting congestion on the CRR.

    I would therefore like to suggest:
    • the addition of a LILO junction where the proposed N24 crosses the R689
    • the addition of a LILO junction where the proposed N24 crosses the R688
    OR
    • the addition of one LILO junction on the proposed N24 midway between the R688 and R689. The R688 and R689 could be connected to this LILO via a new spur that would link both these regional roads with the N24.

    I would encourage the designers to avoid using roundabout junctions and to instead opt for LILO junctions at least.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,725 ✭✭✭charlemont


    i once heard a spur was to be built off the proposed by pass leading to where the present tipp institute is but its not going to happen now by the looks of it anyhow there is new housing all along the hill behind the institute so it cant possibly happen.. i always thought till i seen the attachments on Boards the bypass would go by rathronan (near maxol) i think that was the plan up till the late 90's or so. a junction should be built at the fethard road by lisronagh but i dont think the R688 should get one as all traffic to cashel should be going by J10 as the R688 is a scandalous road only suited for local traffic, it makes me sea sick, but a spur from lisronagh to the cashel road should be built it would help serve Clerihan and the industrial estates on the top of the cashel road..


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,720 ✭✭✭serfboard


    Wild Bill wrote: »
    we wasted the period 1995 - circa 2003 in endless debate (and not just about roads - virtually anything to do with infrastructure).

    Indeed. Most of this period coincided with Mary O'Rourke's tenure as Minister - probably, IMO, the worst Minister for Transport we have ever had - described as being someone who was "always one more consultants report away from making a decision".
    If you class the origins of the routes from Galway to Dublin, Limerick to Dublin, Cork to Dublin an Newry to Dublin, then logicaly the routes between Cork and Limerick is an interurban route also.

    Very little if any of this has been upgraded in the last decade.

    Using the Nra's spin on what is and isn't an "interurban" serves no useful purpose other than make them look like great lads.

    Logically Limerick->Waterford is also an interurban, and nothing has been spent on that (apart from the Cahir bypass, which was built as part of the M8 project).

    I use the word interurban in exactly the same way as the NRA do only to save listing all the schemes, and I do still believe it has been a great achievement and a great legacy to have built all the schemes that they have done. It took us a while to get started, but once we did, and once we got all our processes in place (one of which was the establishment of the NRA), we pushed ahead at a great pace.

    Could we have done more? Possibly. Should we have built the M20? Definitely. I still can't figure out why Ennis->Gort->Tuam gets priority over Cork->Limerick.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭Wild Bill


    serfboard wrote: »
    Indeed. Most of this period coincided with Mary O'Rourke's tenure as Minister - probably, IMO, the worst Minister for Transport we have ever had - described as being someone who was "always one more consultants report away from making a decision".

    Yep, and Seamus Brennan was probably the best till he refused to do tricks for Bertie.
    I do still believe it has been a great achievement and a great legacy to have built all the schemes that they have done. It took us a while to get started, but once we did, and once we got all our processes in place (one of which was the establishment of the NRA), we pushed ahead at a great pace.

    Agree 100% :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,963 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    serfboard wrote: »
    I still can't figure out why Ennis->Gort->Tuam gets priority over Cork->Limerick.

    To appease the West of Ireland and win votes. Cork - Limerick doesnt have that vote-winning factor.

    Funny enough you heard about people getting killed on the Ennis-Galway road (before the M bits were built) far less than you do on Cork - Limerick.


  • Registered Users Posts: 265 ✭✭lukejr


    The proposed bypasses of towns along the N24, are they going to be dual carriageway bypasses like the Castleisland N21, or will it be single lane?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,538 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    lukejr wrote: »
    The proposed bypasses of towns along the N24, are they going to be dual carriageway bypasses like the Castleisland N21, or will it be single lane?

    Dual. Eventual plan is for 2+2 from Waterford to Limerick, in 2030 or so...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭Amtmann


    Attached.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭Amtmann


    Residents angry at proposed new route for Carrick-on-Suir by-pass

    Published Date: 10 November 2010
    By Aileen Hahesy


    A campaign of opposition to the new proposed preferred Carrick-on-Suir Bypass route corridor was launched at a public meeting attended by about 60 residents and landowners last Saturday.

    The meeting in the Carraig Hotel in Carrick-on-Suir was organised by the Cregg Road and Deadman's Boreen Residents Committee, whose members live along part of the new preferred route corridor.

    Speakers appealed to residents and landowners living in other areas along the "emerging preferred" route corridor to lodge submissions highlighting their concerns to South Tipperary Co. Council as soon as possible.

    The original closing date for receipt of submissions was November 5. But following lobbying by residents and local politicians the deadline is now extended to Monday, November 22.

    The original preferred route corridor for the bypass was chosen in 2003. It was closer to Carrick-on-Suir and was a single carriageway.
    But In 2008, the National Roads Authority carried out a review of the project and decided a dual carriageway was required and that a new preferred route corridor should be selected.

    The Co. Council is currently engaging in a public consultation process for the new corridor it has chosen, which is the same as the previous corridor from Kilheffernan to Ballydine but goes further north of Carrick-on-Suir and into Co. Kilkenny. Details and maps of the route are available at the Co. Council offices in Clonmel and at Carrick Town Council.

    Deirdre Walsh of the Cregg Road and Deadman's Boreen Residents Committee warned at the public meeting that if the Council didn't receive enough submissions, it would confirm the preferred route without any changes.
    "Some people will feel they can't stand in the way of progress. However everyone affected by this should put their views to the Co. Council. You must do this without delay," she said.

    Ms Walsh said the bypass would bring noise and light pollution increase air pollution and also seriously impact on the rural environment and community.
    The road would cut communities in half and also devalue homes by possibly 30%.

    She also argued that the new preferred route was too far from Carrick-on-Suir and would require motorists to do a detour to get to the town.
    She estimated Carrick-on-Suir would lose about 35% of the trade it received from traffic passing through the town.

    Ms Walsh urged other communities along the preferred route to set up committees to get involved in the campaign of opposition.
    And she said residents and landowners needed to lobby their local councillors and TDs.

    Bob Fitzgerald, also of the Cregg Road and Deadman's Boreen Residents Committee, said he was extremely annoyed at the way the Council handled the public consultation process and accused the Council of denying the people of the town their rights.

    He criticised the location and content of the press adverts about the public consultation evening in October and pointed out that many people hadn't known about the forum. He also criticised the format of the public consultation forum where residents approached council officials privately to ask them questions. There should have been a public meeting with a panel of experts answering questions, he argued.

    Mr Fitzgerald said the Council had considered four possible routes but refused to give them access to the maps for those other routes.

    "How in God's name in the public interest and in the interest of transparency can we make a submission if we are not given access to all the information," he said.

    Mr Fitzgerald also questioned the need to upgrade the bypass to a dual carriageway with a capacity for 40,000 vehicles a day.

    He claimed the population projections on which the predicted traffic volumes for the bypas were based were flawed. The increase in emigration and return of foreign immigrants to their home countries hadn't been taken into account and would reduce the traffic volumes by 12%, he argued.

    He claimed the location of the bypass's proposed access junction to the town near Blarney Woollen Mills meant it would be three minutes quicker for motorists to drive to Clonmel than to Carrick-on-Suir. "This will kill the economic life of Carrick-on-Suir, a town that is already on its knees," he declared.

    Ann-Marie Power of the Killonerry, Bawngarriff and Garnarea Residents Association, whose members also live along the preferred route corridor, said the road would go straight through the front garden of their new home, which they had only moved into a year ago.

    Members of their association were unanimously opposed to the new preferred bypass route, she said. They were concerned about local roads being turned into cul de sacs, about people being cut off from other family members and about getting from one place to another.

    Deputy Mayor of Carrick-on-Suir Cllr Patsy Fitzgerald said he was personally not in favour of the by pass and pledged to do what he could at Town Council level to assist the campaign.

    Co. Council Director of Road Services Billy McEvoy said all submissions received by the Council would be taken into account before the Council's final report on the route corridor was submitted to the NRA for approval.
    He stressed that the Council was only considering the general route corridor at the moment and the detailed design of the route won't take place until the next stage of the planning process. There would be further opportunities for the public to make their views known on the route at later stages in the process, he said.

    Mr McEvoy acknowledged there would be some local impact no matter where the bypass was built but the Council would try to mitigate such impacts at the detailed design stage.

    Mr McEvoy rejected suggestions the bypass would be economically detrimental to Carrick-on-Suir, pointing out that this hadn't been the experience of many other towns bypassed around the country. The arguement about falling traffic volumes was fair, he said, but the Council had to plan the road for future traffic growth in the event the country's economic circumstances improved. It would be more costly to add onto the bypass route in the future.

    Mr McEvoy also defended the Council's handling of the public consultation process. He believed there had been sufficient notification and pointed out public debate about the route corridor was taking place now. On last month's public consultation session organised by the Council, he said many people preferred to speak to Council officials privately and felt intimidated in a public meeting setting.
    http://www.nationalist.ie/the/Residents-angry-at-proposed-new.6620191.jp


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,963 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    "Cregg Road and Deadman's Boreen Residents Committee"

    Says it all really.


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