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Government agreement: Free-To-Air RTE in NI, BBC in RoI on DTT platform

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Comments

  • #352
    Elmo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    watty wrote: »
    Anyway, no ITV or UTV on Saorsat, It's only Saorview channels. TV3 can sleep nights :)

    Yeah but if You have Saorsat you should be able to gain access to other Satellite services. no?


  • #353
    Tom Slick
    Closed Accounts Posts: 393 ✭✭Tom Slick


    Elmo wrote: »
    Yeah but if You have Saorsat you should be able to gain access to other Satellite services. no?

    Isn't there a satellite forum?:rolleyes:


  • #354
    Elmo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    Tom Slick wrote: »
    Isn't there a satellite forum?:rolleyes:

    Yes and I hear you can get BBC 1 NI, 2 NI, UTV and C4 there ;)


  • #355
    watty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Elmo wrote: »
    Yeah but if You have Saorsat you should be able to gain access to other Satellite services. no?

    In a sense. But not from the same feed.
    You need either a custom Dual feed dish or two dishes (though one doesn't need to look like a dish). Plenty of discussion in The Satellite forum

    From about this Post http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=67681453&postcount=561 in this thread http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055968485 (many many pointless and repetitive posts at this stage)

    See also http://www.techtir.ie/saortv/saorsat
    And http://www.techtir.ie/isaa/saorsat/preliminary

    If you want Sky you need two satellite Receivers as Sky Receiver won't work for Saorsat. A Freesat HD (DVB-S2 HD) receiver or Generic HD DVB-S2 receiver should mostly work on Saorsat. Further research required. Uncertain aspects are Program Guide and Interactive.

    Saorsat is for 2% to 7% that can't get Irish DTT, in Ireland. It should work in all of N.I. but not England, Wales, Cornwall and Most of Scotland.


  • #356
    SRB
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 820 ✭✭✭SRB


    Peter Henderson wrote: »
    Can't understand though, why they can't put RTE's 1 and 2 along with TG4 free to Air for viewers in the North but not the rest of the UK. I'm sure this is technically possible. Didn't they do it with the Saint (a radio station in Southampton) a few years ago ?

    Yes, but it would be at the expense of other services, which would have to come off to make way for those three, not to mention RTE Radio.


  • #357
    Elmo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    SRB wrote: »
    Yes, but it would be at the expense of other services, which would have to come off to make way for those three, not to mention RTE Radio.

    There are spaces on the FreeView EPG that would be better served by RTÉ 1, 2 and TG4 (TV3 for that matter also).

    QVC, Channel One (soon to be Challenge), Ideal World, bid tv, price drop/gem tv.

    How do the 3 manchester channels work?


  • #358
    watty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    A large part of N.I. will only have "Freeview Lite". The space doesn't exist, nor the will in either Government to spend extra money.

    So nothing will happen if Saorsat works, as we can already get Freesat in virtually 100% of Ireland and about 80% have PayTV with the N.I. channels (Sky, UPC and Casey).


  • #359
    The Cush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,747 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Peter Henderson wrote: »
    Personally, I think Freesat should also be available to viewers in the ROI, although i suppose RTE would object strongly.

    RTÉ has no objection, this from the Oireachtas discussion with RTÉ
    Deputy Noel J. Coonan: People are under the impression that they will be able to receive every channel because there are two multiplexes. What channels will be available under the proposals outlined by Mr. Hayes? Will these be the eight or nine channels listed here? Will the UK channels be available?

    Mr. Conor Hayes: The UK channels are available under an approach called Freesat, which is broadcast by a company owned by the BBC and ITV. They broadcast these channels in the clear over Ireland using a wide-band satellite operating in the KU band. RTE’s satellite option is a narrow-band satellite operating in the Ka band. One cannot get them on the same satellite. In the US, there are hybrid dishes available and householders can receive Ka band and Ku band signals. That is technically feasible and there are some 22 million households in the US using it. The cost of the dish is approximately $65.

    Deputy Noel J. Coonan: Deputy D’Arcy will have to go to Italy and I will have to go to the US.

    Mr. Conor Hayes: We are doing our best to identify solutions.

    Deputy Noel J. Coonan: Will people have to get a box for Sky and a box for the UK channels? These are not readily available. People are under the impression they can do this once they switch over.

    Mr. Conor Hayes: If people want to stay with Sky and keep paying money, one does not need anything else. The alternative we are providing does not involve pay-TV.

    Chairman: The Deputy’s question is whether one can get BBC and ITV.

    Mr. Conor Hayes: If one has a satellite.

    http://debates.oireachtas.ie/DDebate...&Ex=All&Page=3


  • #360
    Elmo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    watty wrote: »
    A large part of N.I. will only have "Freeview Lite". The space doesn't exist, nor the will in either Government to spend extra money.

    So what are you telling me that QVC, Channel One (soon to be Challenge), Ideal World, bid tv, price drop/gem tv won't be on FreeView NI? :(


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  • #361
    watty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    I've no idea what is on N.I. TV. But none of it will shift for "foriegn" TV. There would be trouble.


  • #362
    Elmo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    watty wrote: »
    I've no idea what is on N.I. TV. But none of it will shift for "foriegn" TV. There would be trouble.

    Well I hope that they at least don't place Teleshopping TV before real TV.


  • #363
    Tom Slick
    Closed Accounts Posts: 393 ✭✭Tom Slick


    Who are "they"?


  • #364
    SRB
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 820 ✭✭✭SRB


    Elmo wrote: »
    Well I hope that they at least don't place Teleshopping TV before real TV.

    You pay the money, you get the muxes. That's how it works.


  • #365
    Elmo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    SRB wrote: »
    You pay the money, you get the muxes. That's how it works.

    I some how think "foreign" TV wouldn't get first option on such spaces.
    Who are "they"?

    Sorry, OfCom.


  • #366
    Tom Slick
    Closed Accounts Posts: 393 ✭✭Tom Slick


    SRB wrote: »
    You pay the money, you get the muxes. That's how it works.

    Must be good money in sh*t TV.


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  • #367
    Souriau
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 788 ✭✭✭Souriau


    Those show on TV are there because people pay for their services
    even the quiz show at night, they don't do it for free, the viewers pay for it and they dial up the premium number to the show.
    Any good business will run anything that make money from it.


  • #368
    Elmo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    Souriau wrote: »
    Any good business will run anything that make money from it.

    Doesn't make it good or right. But then no one ever suggested otherwise.


  • #369
    Gerry Wicklow
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,565 ✭✭✭Gerry Wicklow


    If people are foolish enough to pay £1 a time to enter a daft quiz there's plenty of companies only too glad to take it.


  • #370
    Digifriendly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,066 ✭✭✭Digifriendly


    Elmo wrote: »
    So what are you telling me that QVC, Channel One (soon to be Challenge), Ideal World, bid tv, price drop/gem tv won't be on FreeView NI? :(

    The 3 main transmitters in NI (Divis/Brougher Mountain/Limavady) will carry the full Freeview Service and cover the majority of the population but most if not all relays will carry a 'Freeview Lite' service like most relays in rest of UK due to lack of available space. This will be a service minus some of the other channels on the full Freeview one.


  • #371
    lawhec
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,757 ✭✭✭lawhec


    Just for reference, in Northern Ireland (pre-DSO), Muxs B, C & D are the same across the UK and are not (and I don't think can be) regionalised. Mux A is distributed by satellite and is part-regionalised in that some services are stripped out depending on the transmitter location. Muxs 1 & 2 of course carry local services (BBC NI, UTV etc.) and are regionalised.


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  • #372
    Elmo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    Digifriendly wrote: »
    The 3 main transmitters in NI (Divis/Brougher Mountain/Limavady) will carry the full Freeview Service and cover the majority of the population but most if not all relays will carry a 'Freeview Lite' service like most relays in rest of UK due to lack of available space. This will be a service minus some of the other channels on the full Freeview one.

    Let me put it another way I hope that actual TV rather than Sales TV makes it on to FreeView Light.
    If people are foolish enough to pay £1 a time to enter a daft quiz there's plenty of companies only too glad to take it.

    And their are plenty of ways to con people out of a €1 other than push such stuff on to television screens (especially since we have the interweb now).


  • #373
    Tom Slick
    Closed Accounts Posts: 393 ✭✭Tom Slick


    Elmo wrote: »
    Let me put it another way I hope that actual TV rather than Sales TV makes it on to FreeView Light.

    That should be the case, since it's the commercial muxes that carry these shopping channels that are unwilling to pay to upgrade the relays (bit like analogue TV3)
    I believe this is the main reason for "Freeview Lite" rather than any technical one.


  • #374
    Elmo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    Tom Slick wrote: »
    That should be the case, since it's the commercial muxes that carry these shopping channels that are unwilling to pay to upgrade the relays (bit like analogue TV3)
    I believe this is the main reason for "Freeview Lite" rather than any technical one.

    So RTÉ, TV3 and TG4 could be placed on Freeview Lite if Sales TV are unwilling to take up those positions? And they would possibly be available to those not availing of PAY TV in rural areas.


  • #375
    SRB
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 820 ✭✭✭SRB


    Elmo wrote: »
    So RTÉ, TV3 and TG4 could be placed on Freeview Lite if Sales TV are unwilling to take up those positions? And they would possibly be available to those not availing of PAY TV in rural areas.

    No, as the commercial operators decided not to pay to upgrade the local relays, the Muxes won't be there in the first place.


  • #376
    SRB
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 820 ✭✭✭SRB


    Tom Slick wrote: »
    That should be the case, since it's the commercial muxes that carry these shopping channels that are unwilling to pay to upgrade the relays (bit like analogue TV3)
    I believe this is the main reason for "Freeview Lite" rather than any technical one.


    That's correct.


  • #377
    Peter Henderson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 116 ✭✭Peter Henderson


    watty wrote: »
    I've no idea what is on N.I. TV. But none of it will shift for "foriegn" TV. There would be trouble.

    Most people up here don't regard RTE as foreign TV, even those from within the Unionist community.

    I think if a few shappin' channels were replaced with RTE's 1 and 2 along with TG4, few people would care.


  • #378
    Peter Henderson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 116 ✭✭Peter Henderson


    SRB wrote: »
    No, as the commercial operators decided not to pay to upgrade the local relays, the Muxes won't be there in the first place.

    Indeed, Freeview Lite does't have any shappin' channels.

    I suspect that if and when the two governments reach aggreement on this, the Freeview Lite transmitters will carry TG4 only, with the main transmitters (i.e. Divis, Limavady, and Brougher) having TG4 along with both RTE 1 and 2.


  • #379
    watty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Don't hold your breath Peter.

    BTW. I remember Jordanstown well. All my relatives live either North or South of it in County Antrim. None can get DTT.


  • #380
    Sam the Aerialman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 199 ✭✭Sam the Aerialman


    Peter Henderson wrote: »
    Indeed, Freeview Lite does't have any shappin' channels.

    I suspect that if and when the two governments reach aggreement on this, the Freeview Lite transmitters will carry TG4 only, with the main transmitters (i.e. Divis, Limavady, and Brougher) having TG4 along with both RTE 1 and 2.

    It'll never happen for 2 reasons that's 44 extra channels, that would cost Arqiva and additional half a million quid to implement. Ofcom will never free up 44 frequencies for one thing whilst they're in clearance mode and Arqiva will never pay for it. The commercial multiplex owners had their chance it's done. The model will be 7 frequencies from the 3 main transmitters and three from the PSB transmitters.

    The best chance to get RTE services onto UK Freeview is using the interleaved multiplexs from the three main transmitters. That is were the agreement needs to be reached and more importantly to them who's paying for it.


  • #381
    watty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    There is no-one to pay. If Saorsat works, that will let the Southern Government "save face".


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  • #382
    Digifriendly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,066 ✭✭✭Digifriendly


    Peter Henderson wrote: »
    Most people up here don't regard RTE as foreign TV, even those from within the Unionist community.

    I think if a few shappin' channels were replaced with RTE's 1 and 2 along with TG4, few people would care.

    You're absolutely right - you only need to look at forest of RTE aerials in Unionist strongholds like Ballymena and Lisburn many of which were put quite a few years ago when RTE had live First Division football and live FA Cup semi-finals as well as live League Cup final in pre Sky days.


  • #383
    Elmo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    watty wrote: »
    There is no-one to pay. If Saorsat works, that will let the Southern Government "save face".

    I think on both sides of the boarder we really should insist that the owners of the muxs place actual TV channels over Commerical Shopping Channels.

    RTÉ 1, 2, TV3 and TG4 should replace at least 4 of the shopping channels in the north and if the BAI have their way with PAY DTT they should insist that the pay operater as a public service provides BBC 1, 2, UTV and C4 unencrypted on their muxs rather than getting people to pay for the likes of BET TV, QVC etc.

    This swap should pay for itself. (Much more so for Channel 4 and UTV).

    What is the point of having regulators?


  • #384
    SRB
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 820 ✭✭✭SRB


    Elmo, like them or loath them, they have as much right to be on the Commercial muxes as anyone else, look at it this way, if they weren't making money and weren't paying their way, they wouldn't be there. People do watch and do buy from them. A regulator will not "dump channels" just because some people don't like them.


  • #385
    Elmo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    SRB wrote: »
    Elmo, like them or loath them, they have as much right to be on the Commercial muxes as anyone else, look at it this way, if they weren't making money and weren't paying their way, they wouldn't be there. People do watch and do buy from them. A regulator will not "dump channels" just because some people don't like them.

    It isn't that I don't like them, well it is but....

    I just think that a regulator should just say oh that okay they can pay and make money. It is called regulation for a reason. These types of channels pray on people. Not only that in they won't be FTA in ROI as most people will continue to pay to have such channels on what ever commercial mux that they get.

    I don't think people should go around defending con artists and bad television because ultimately they make money, that is just bull****. Sorry but that is how I feel about this type of television. Get an internet connection FFS.

    The regulators are supposed to work for the people not the companies they licence.

    Let face it Sky and Virgin both seemed to be able to provide a relatively alright channel on FreeView until the sky takeover, the regulator should just turn around and say no you can't turn Channel One in to an even worse channel than it already is.


  • #386
    watty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    I agree the Regulators seem more interested in revenue and "fairness" between companies than the actual consumer. In Germany they have taken a first step in insisting that the mostly naked chat line parasite channels must be encrypted rather than Free To Air.

    Sky should not be allowed to be a Platform operator and own channels. Ofcom are useless. Also Ofcom have repeatedly given OK to Sky's outlandish EPG and encryption charges.


  • #387
    SRB
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 820 ✭✭✭SRB


    Elmo wrote: »
    I don't think people should go around defending con artists and bad television because ultimately they make money, that is just bull****. Sorry but that is how I feel about this type of television. Get an internet connection FFS.

    The regulators are supposed to work for the people not the companies they licence.

    Let face it Sky and Virgin both seemed to be able to provide a relatively alright channel on FreeView until the sky takeover, the regulator should just turn around and say no you can't turn Channel One in to an even worse channel than it already is.

    Where do you draw the line ? There are magazines and newspapers which are on sale to attact "one type of customer" only - should they be closed too ?
    The shopping channels have an audience, and serve that audience, otherwise the audience wouldn't exist. I've never watched a shopping channel in my life, but I know people who actually order from them and seem perfectly happy with what they've bought. It takes all sorts....
    As for the sale of Virgin to Sky, it's no different from anyother takeover, the consumer is usually the last person to be considered.
    OFCOM have been totally toothless in the UK radio market, so expecting them to be any different with TV is "wishing on a star." Given the Tories are back in power in the UK, I wouldn't expect it to get any better either.


  • #388
    Elmo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    SRB wrote: »
    Where do you draw the line ? There are magazines and newspapers which are on sale to attact "one type of customer" only - should they be closed too ?
    The shopping channels have an audience, and serve that audience, otherwise the audience wouldn't exist. I've never watched a shopping channel in my life, but I know people who actually order from them and seem perfectly happy with what they've bought. It takes all sorts....
    As for the sale of Virgin to Sky, it's no different from anyother takeover, the consumer is usually the last person to be considered.
    OFCOM have been totally toothless in the UK radio market, so expecting them to be any different with TV is "wishing on a star." Given the Tories are back in power in the UK, I wouldn't expect it to get any better either.

    Just because something has an audience does not mean it is good or should be defended. I would have thought that these types of TV channels would have died because of the Internet. These channels add nothing to any service the customer receives. Going back to the Commerical muxs here most applications sought to put telemarketing channels on their PAY offerings, I don't see why people would want to pay for that, whatever about channels you can get FTA.


  • #389
    SRB
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 820 ✭✭✭SRB


    Elmo wrote: »
    I would have thought that these types of TV channels would have died because of the Internet.

    But they haven't because, strange as it may seem, not everyone uses the internet to shop, look at the number of high street home shopping catalogues still in circulation in th UK.
    Elmo wrote: »
    These channels add nothing to any service the customer receives.

    The people who use them would disagree, should they be ignored because some people don't like them ?

    Personally I think It would have been better to have a fixed number of tele marketing slots and then these could have been "bid for" by interested companies.


  • #390
    Elmo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    SRB wrote: »
    Personally I think It would have been better to have a fixed number of tele marketing slots and then these could have been "bid for" by interested companies.

    But this would be regulation. But yes I would agree to that, 2 telemarketing channels that would sell their hours to telemarketing companies such as QVC.


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  • #391
    sesswhat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,177 ✭✭✭sesswhat


    Don't know if there is anything new in it but there is a front page story in the Irish News about RTE on NI Freeview.


  • #392
    Charles Slane
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,812 ✭✭✭Charles Slane


    sesswhat wrote: »
    Don't know if there is anything new in it but there is a front page story in the Irish News about RTE on NI Freeview.

    I saw that this morning. RTE and TG4 for Freeview and it said to expect an announcement soon about increased availablity of the BBC in Ireland. Could it become available on the second mux?


  • #393
    jamescc
    Registered Users Posts: 395 ✭✭jamescc


    where did you see it? can you post a link


  • #394
    culabula
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,213 ✭✭✭culabula


    Cool....and with RTÉ Player on my PS3 here in Belfast as of this morning, buh-bye $KY.

    (runs down to the wee corner shap fer til do the messages and buy the Irish News ferbye).


  • #395
    channelsurfer2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,629 ✭✭✭channelsurfer2


    the article is subscription only so cant see it online... the part about bbc availability is interesting as it was discussed widely here at the time that the greens/Department announced it and had to row back when the memorandum was changed overnight to wipe out all reference to bbc been available on saorview free of charge... wonder have the greens got it back on the agenda before the election?


  • #396
    channelsurfer2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,629 ✭✭✭channelsurfer2


    had a quick look at the article and its not great. most of it is a re-hash of what was said at the launch of the memo and some of it contradicts itself like the part where it says viewers will loose access to rte after years of overspill because its been switched off but they will have it on freeview instead. Yet on the same page it says that the signal is now even stronger than ever in tyrone etc with the new rte digital saorview coming in crystal clear.. the part about bbc been available down south is very vague... just mention of an announcement "soon".


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  • #397
    jamescc
    Registered Users Posts: 395 ✭✭jamescc


    that would be interesting to see what does happen in the end and are they talking soon or in 2012 but i would nt be getting rid of sky just yet(if i had it)


  • #398
    lawhec
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,757 ✭✭✭lawhec


    Read all about it!


  • #399
    Macy0161
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,517 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    jamescc wrote: »
    that would be interesting to see what does happen in the end and are they talking soon or in 2012 but i would nt be getting rid of sky just yet(if i had it)
    I don't know if it will effect sky subs, but in my opinion having BBC1 and/or BBC2 on saorview would be a nice carrot for analogue only households to switch. I'm not convinced it will happen, but would certainly knock a lot of the "why are RTE bothering" crap you see on other sites.


  • #400
    watty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    BBC on Saorview is not going to happen. RTE even recommend people get Freesat.

    If someone has Sky and a Saorview TV all they need to do is cancel and they will get MORE BBC, ITV, C4 Five and UK channels free than was ever proposed for ANY pay DTT platform.

    So..
    What stations will NI lose to make space on Freeview for RTE1, RTE2 and TG4?

    How many people in NI will go for Saorsat to get all 9 TV, HD (freeview won't be HD) and the 10 to 12 Radio after Mid 2011?

    Alternatively is this just a recycling of the old news from the time of MOU and in fact there is Zero commitment of RTE1, RTE2 and TG4 and very unlikely if Saorsat works (as RTE & TG4 would have to pay for carriage).


  • #401
    lawhec
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,757 ✭✭✭lawhec


    watty wrote: »
    BBC on Saorview is not going to happen. RTE even recommend people get Freesat.

    If someone has Sky and a Saorview TV all they need to do is cancel and they will get MORE BBC, ITV, C4 Five and UK channels free than was ever proposed for ANY pay DTT platform.

    So..
    What stations will NI lose to make space on Freeview for RTE1, RTE2 and TG4?

    How many people in NI will go for Saorsat to get all 9 TV, HD (freeview won't be HD) and the 10 to 12 Radio after Mid 2011?

    Alternatively is this just a recycling of the old news from the time of MOU and in fact there is Zero commitment of RTE1, RTE2 and TG4 and very unlikely if Saorsat works (as RTE & TG4 would have to pay for carriage).
    There's no attribution of official sources for the story Watty, which makes me suspicious. My guess is that there was a slow news day in the Irish News offices and they had this story lying on the shelf. At least this time, unlike the problems of RTÉ1 reception on FM in Belfast when Tullamore's MW TX closed, there were no comments from rent-a-gobshíte politicians!


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