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Government agreement: Free-To-Air RTE in NI, BBC in RoI on DTT platform

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  • Apogee wrote: »
    Trying. And failing.

    Look I am not defending Eamon Ryan but I do think he has a harder job than you might think. He has to put up with the madrins in the Civil Service who are possibly trying to avoid anything that might rock the boat. And who were quite happy in 2001 to announce to visiting delegations that Ireland had a 50% take up of Digital TV :rolleyes: (Sky and cable not sure if that would have even been at 50% in 2001)

    Then he has to deal with the cabinet who are whole incapable and have been for the last 12 years.

    But lets remember that Eamon Ryan is possible the only minister in the last 12 years that has actually thought about a cross boarder trade between BBC 1, 2, TG4, RTÉ 1 and 2. It is unlikely that any of the others ever thought about this.

    It is difficult to fix past **** ups from A+ **** ups




  • Elmo wrote: »
    Look I am not defending Eamon Ryan but I do think he has a harder job than you might think.

    If he's not competent he can always quit.

    He wasn't long showing his stripes when he started spouting mendacious guff on broadband take-up by including mobile "broadband" subscribers in the stats.
    Then he has to deal with the cabinet who are whole incapable and have been for the last 12 years.

    No wonder he fit in so well.
    But lets remember that Eamon Ryan is possible the only minister in the last 12 years that has actually thought about across boarder trade between BBC 1, 2, TG4, RTÉ 1 and 2. It is unlikely that any of the others ever thought about this.

    We'll remember his weasel words in the Dáil backtracking and throwing responsibilty onto the BBC.
    It is difficult to fix past **** ups from A+ **** ups

    It's certainly proving difficult for Ryan. Maybe he should go back to selling bikes?




  • Apogee wrote: »
    We'll remember his weasel words in the Dáil backtracking and throwing responsibilty onto the BBC.

    How much does the BBC earn from ROI each year? I am guessing in the region of €10million. If BBC 1 and 2 were to be broadcast FTA on DTT in Ireland certainly their contract with Cable and Satellite Companies for EPG space in ROI would diminish. As would any of the TV shows that they sell to Irish TV channels.

    Now personally I could careless about what BBC WW earns from ROI subs and sales but they just might.
    It's certainly proving difficult for Ryan. Maybe he should go back to selling bikes?

    It is a pity his predecessor's party won't be decimated at the next General Election.




  • Elmo wrote: »
    But lets remember that Eamon Ryan is possible the only minister in the last 12 years that has actually thought about a cross boarder trade between BBC 1, 2, TG4, RTÉ 1 and 2.
    But Elmo, he reneged on this "trade" even before the ink was dry last month.
    Theres no point in thinking about doing something if you are not actually going to do it.
    How many more times does it have to be said before it sinks in?




  • But Elmo, he reneged on this "trade" even before the ink was dry last month.
    Theres no point in thinking about doing something if you are not actually going to do it.
    How many more times does it have to be said before it sinks in?

    Indeed the Irish Gov and the UK gov should have first asked how BBC WW felt about the plan. I said it was rushed at the beginning of this thread. But no one listen. But hey whats done is done. right? Right, Yeah!

    How many more times to I have to mention that DTT was messed up long before Eamon Ryan thought about FTA BBC and long before he was even in government. Whats done is done right.


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  • Personally I'm of the view that the Minister didn't know his brief fully at the start.
    Theres no Way that fta access to the BBC was/is going to happen on DTT in ROI.
    Theres three powerfull groups against it in the business and probably a fourth if you include the civil servants/Quango's.

    If onevision bow out,you'll see RTE offer it and the best way forward in my opinion is a €5 increase in the licence fee to pay for it with a rebate if you can show you have a current UPC sub or a sky sub.
    If you have either of those,you get to have the bbc's on your other tv's via dtt for free.




  • Personally I'm of the view that the Minister didn't know his brief fully at the start.
    Theres no Way that fta access to the BBC was/is going to happen on DTT in ROI.
    Theres three powerfull groups against it in the business and probably a fourth if you include the civil servants/Quango's.

    If onevision bow out,you'll see RTE offer it and the best way forward in my opinion is a €5 increase in the licence fee to pay for it with a rebate if you can show you have a current UPC sub or a sky sub.
    If you have either of those,you get to have the bbc's on your other tv's via dtt for free.

    I do not think rebates are in the Government's lexicon. In the unlikely event that they do have to pay the Beeb, and if they want to pay them by a licence increase, they will not be in the mind to rebate anyone. They will look for $ky + UPC to provide the rebate. I do not see how they will have to pay for the Beeb, anyway. The UK government will pay for royalties, and RTE will pay for carriage. Same in Norn Iron (but the other way round).

    It is not likely to be any burden for either RTE or BBC to be FTA on the island, as there is nearly 50% coverage overspill anyway, if you include Freesat, it is more.




  • They will look for $ky + UPC to provide the rebate.
    The BCI tried to regulate (=Get money out of) Sky a couple of years ago, and Sky just told them to go away and close the door behind you.
    They might be able to wangle some cash out of UPC but its hard to imagine the angle they would use. "We need BBC 1 and BBC 2 on the FTA mux, so could you give us money in order to facilitate this?" That will go down well with UPC.




  • The powers that be are dead set on payment for anything other than the irish channels on dtt here,
    the minister just ad libbed his way into trouble on this one in my opinion.

    He does have the power to order his board via legislation new and old if he was inclined to fast track a service that includes the BBC.
    If it needed a line in a bill,it could be passed overnight or within 6 months or 6 years depending on how much he bends to commercial objections.




  • He does have the power to order his board via legislation new and old if he was inclined to fast track a service that includes the BBC.

    That fool Ryan gave us a Broadcasting Act more or less every year since 2007 and probably has another one lined up to go any day now.

    And still he could not include the contents of an alleged year 2001 protocol in any of them.


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  • Elmo wrote: »
    Indeed the Irish Gov and the UK gov should have first asked how BBC WW felt about the plan. .

    Since they were not the ones to complain about the MOU they apparently had no problems with it since they were still going to get paid either by the Irish Gov , RTE or possibly UK Gov ( FO is a possibility )




  • As I have said before, it is/was a political agreement, not a commercial agreement. Therefore the politicians will provide the money. The Beeb pays for the Northern part, and RTE pays for the southern part. Both are paid by a licence fee. No commercial involvement, but they might complain. BBC World Service is paid for by the British FO. The amount of money involved is peanuts to both organisations. The ire of the politicians if railed against either organisation would be much more costly. A refusal to revise upwards their revenue streams would be disaster for both organisations. The BBC is having its charter under revue for some time. RTE is always fighting to be independant of the politicos. Ray Burke is not a distant memory.




  • Elmo wrote: »
    How much does the BBC earn from ROI each year? I am guessing in the region of €10million.

    Source?
    It is a pity his predecessor's party won't be decimated at the next General Election.

    Remind us again - which party is propping up this current FF government?




  • Apogee wrote: »
    Source?

    I did say I was guessing. I assume that BBC WW get money from Sky (Ireland not UK) and UPC, and that BBC WW get money from RTÉ (perhaps TV3) for programming. I am guessing that for RTÉ EastEnders would be a more expensive show than most other dramas that they import. All of these product would not be as valuable to Irish companies with FTA BBC. Indeed I don't see why RTÉ would continue with any deals with BBC WW.
    Remind us again - which party is propping up this current FF government?

    Remind me again of why people voted for FF? Oh yeah, Whats done is done right. Right. :rolleyes: Oh and thats possibly the same reason why people will vote them in next election. You would think the Green Party cause all the problems over the past 12 years.
    Since they were not the ones to complain about the MOU they apparently had no problems with it since they were still going to get paid either by the Irish Gov , RTE or possibly UK Gov ( FO is a possibility )

    I would love to know how the Irish government or RTÉ would pay for re-transmissions of BBC 1 and 2? And how much was going to be paid for these re-transmissions? A licence fee increase for this? Exchequer funding? We're in a recession these are the last thing that any government wants to enforce.
    Ray Burke is not a distant memory.

    Cann't agree more. And he got re-elected :(




  • Elmo wrote: »
    I did say I was guessing.

    So it was pulled out of thin air.


    Remind me again of why people voted for FF?

    Why don't you ask them?
    Oh yeah, Whats done is done right. Right. :rolleyes: Oh and thats possibly the same reason why people will vote them in next election. You would think the Green Party cause all the problems over the past 12 years.

    I don't recall anyone on this forum defending FF. But you keep cheerleading for Ryan and the Greens regardless.




  • Sorry, thought I was in the DTT forum, must have clicked on Politics by mistake.




  • Apogee wrote: »
    So it was pulled out of thin air.

    No I took a look at RTÉ's Annual Report and saw that they pay 23million on foreign imports each year, while BBC WW doesn't take up 50% of that it takes up at least 20% when you spread it across Childrens, Documentary, Feature and Drama buy ins.

    And I take it that both Sky and UPC give a fair amount to BBC WW to allow their stations on an Irish EPG.

    Personally I think that 10million is under what they actually get from business in ROI.
    I don't recall anyone on this forum defending FF. But you keep cheerleading for Ryan and the Greens regardless.

    I defended Ryan and got back "What's done is done" in relation to former Ministers in this dept and in Culture now I am sorry but to me that sound very like "A lot done, more to do".
    BowWow wrote: »
    Sorry, thought I was in the DTT forum, must have clicked on Politics by mistake.

    If you take a look back on political history all ministers have allot of responsibility in relation to Broadcasting. To ignore their work - or lack there of - would not make sense. In particular the work of ministers such as Ray Burke. You will also note the title of the thread.




  • Elmo wrote: »
    I would love to know how the Irish government or RTÉ would pay for re-transmissions of BBC 1 and 2? And how much was going to be paid for these re-transmissions? A licence fee increase for this? Exchequer funding? We're in a recession these are the last thing that any government wants to enforce.

    Whatever the method that might be used is open to suggestion but nice try at trying to deflect the issue.

    We have absolutely no reports that support your guess
    Indeed the Irish Gov and the UK gov should have first asked how BBC WW felt about the plan
    that the BBC had any problems with it .

    To quote the Irish Times report about the MOU the problems occured here in Ireland
    but it caused quite a stir with pay TV operators NTL/ Chorus and Sky




  • I can not beleive that RTE and the BBC were not consulted on the MoU beforehand. Nor do I beleive the rethink was originated from either broadcaster. Nor do I beleive it would have any impact on $ky or UPC. No subscriber will be cancelling just because the BBC is now FTA on DTT. However I think Onevision may have had a sudden intake of breath, and the extra oxygen they got caused them a little spin of the head. Perhaps those with 4 [or only 3] channels, who have survived this long subsciption free, are not going to pay out for extra channels if they suddenly can get 7 or more channels, most of which are top quality. If UTV also managed to become FTA as part of the deal, TV3 would also have had a sudden rush to the head. I]Are not TV3 part of Onevision? Maybe they were the ones with the head spin[/I




  • SPDUB wrote: »
    Whatever the method that might be used is open to suggestion but nice try at trying to deflect the issue.

    We have absolutely no reports that support your guess that the BBC had any problems with it .

    To quote the Irish Times report about the MOU the problems occured here in Ireland

    The suggestions mentioned were from other posters, I wasn't deflecting intentionally.

    I think the Irish Times may also be guessing
    but it caused quite a stir with pay TV operators NTL/ Chorus and Sky

    Do they have any quotes from either Sky or UPC on the issue.

    However I think Onevision may have had a sudden intake of breath, and the extra oxygen they got caused them a little spin of the head. Perhaps those with 4 [or only 3] channels, who have survived this long subsciption free, are not going to pay out for extra channels if they suddenly can get 7 or more channels, most of which are top quality. If UTV also managed to become FTA as part of the deal, TV3 would also have had a sudden rush to the head. [Are not TV3 part of Onevision? Maybe they were the ones with the head spin]

    TV3 have reduce their shareholding in One Vision to nearly zero.

    Again there is allot of conjecture as to who had a rush of blood to the head.

    One Vision (mostly likely)
    UPC and Sky (perhaps)
    BBC WW (also a contender)


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  • On a point of information.
    The BBC is owned by the government of the united kingdom.

    It's board of governors[now known as the BBC trust] is appointed by the UK government.




  • Elmo wrote: »
    No I took a look at RTÉ's Annual Report and saw that they pay 23million on foreign imports each year, while BBC WW doesn't take up 50% of that it takes up at least 20% when you spread it across Childrens, Documentary, Feature and Drama buy ins.

    Translation: you got it out of thin air.
    I defended Ryan and got back "What's done is done" in relation to former Ministers in this dept and in Culture now I am sorry but to me that sound very like "A lot done, more to do".

    I suppose it would seem like that to someone who sees everything through green-tinted glasses.
    Again there is allot of conjecture as to who had a rush of blood to the head.

    One Vision (mostly likely)
    UPC and Sky (perhaps)
    BBC WW (also a contender)

    Blame everyone except Eamon - we could nearly use that as a slogan.




  • Elmo wrote: »

    I think the Irish Times may also be guessing

    Anything to back up your guess that they are "guessing"

    Elmo wrote: »
    Again there is allot of conjecture as to who had a rush of blood to the head.

    One Vision (mostly likely)
    UPC and Sky (perhaps)
    BBC WW (also a contender)

    No there isn't .Most people here think One Vision .Times says UPC and Sky .

    You alone keep bringing up BBC WW




  • Apogee wrote: »
    Translation: you got it out of thin air.

    No its called an educated guess. Which I explained to you in my last post.

    I think it is a mix of all. There are a number of vested interests that may not have liked the idea. I have said this from the beginning and in past threads.
    Anything to back up your guess that they are "guessing"

    I would like to see evidence that UPC and Sky had an issue (I do think they had an issue) but I also think it is just guess work on behalf of the Times that Sky and UPC had issues with the MOU.

    I have given a reason why I think BBC WW may have had an issue with the proposal. They earn money from the Irish Market.
    It's board of governors[now known as the BBC trust] is appointed by the UK government.

    And it has been UK government policy that the BBC exploit its brand and library of shows for commercial money (Both domestically and internationally) that can be invested back into PBS services provided to the people of the UK.




  • Elmo wrote: »
    I would like to see evidence that UPC and Sky had an issue (I do think they had an issue) but I also think it is just guess work on behalf of the Times that Sky and UPC had issues with the MOU.

    So nothing to back your guess and because you don't like it you can't accept they may have got it from a contact etc
    Elmo wrote: »
    I have given a reason why I think BBC WW may have had an issue with the proposal. They earn money from the Irish Market.

    Nothing to do with what I was replying to
    Again there is allot of conjecture as to who had a rush of blood to the head.

    Trying to lump your conjecture with the rest and saying because of that there is a lot of conjecture doesn't make it a fact there is a lot of conjecture about BBC WW




  • SPDUB wrote: »
    So nothing to back your guess and because you don't like it you can't accept they may have got it from a contact etc
    Good news for viewers, perhaps, but it caused quite a stir with pay TV operators NTL/ Chorus and Sky, who between them pay millions of euros each year to the BBC to carry their channels, which are hugely popular with Irish viewers.

    There is nothing in that statement or in the report that reporter spoke to anyone in Sky or UPC. But the reporter does suggest something interesting that Sky and UPC pay Millions to BBC for their channels, possibly to the commercial arm of the BBC.

    Sorry for having an opinion.




  • Elmo wrote: »
    And it has been UK government policy that the BBC exploit its brand and library of shows for commercial money (Both domestically and internationally) that can be invested back into PBS services provided to the people of the UK.
    Nothing to stop them instructing the BBC to provide their services to the Republic on dtt quid pro quo with RTE doing likewise up north given the BBC's owners are a co signee of the MOU.




  • Elmo wrote: »
    There is nothing in that statement or in the report that reporter spoke to anyone in Sky or UPC. But the reporter does suggest something interesting that Sky and UPC pay Millions to BBC for their channels, possibly to the commercial arm of the BBC.

    Sorry for having an opinion.

    No problem with having an opinion but you are trying to construct that BBC WW have a problem with the MOU , out of that opinion , when there isn't even a whisper that they have .




  • Apogee wrote: »
    Translation: you got it out of thin air.
    This is not my battle or anything, I'm happy to stay out of meandering discussions. But when they are as militant and unreasonable as that, I can't let it slide. Elmo plainly stated that he guessed a figure of €10 million. When pressed, he/she then gave their reasoning for that guess. Now why the hell are you going at length to totally discredit that minor statement when it made little difference to the issues at hand and was not a controversial point??

    If you had reason to say that the guess was totally wrong then by all means inform us all on why exactly the poster got it wrong, but effectively shouting down a statement just because it was a guess and didn't seem to sit right with you, is nothing short of childish and abrasive bickering. I hate when people try to put words and inferences into other people's posts when it suits them to.:mad:


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  • This is not my battle or anything, I'm happy to stay out of meandering discussions. But when they are as militant and unreasonable as that, I can't let it slide. Elmo plainly stated that he guessed a figure of €10 million. When pressed, he/she then gave their reasoning for that guess. Now why the hell are you going at length to totally discredit that minor statement when it made little difference to the issues at hand and was not a controversial point??

    If you had reason to say that the guess was totally wrong then by all means inform us all on why exactly the poster got it wrong, but effectively shouting down a statement just because it was a guess and didn't seem to sit right with you, is nothing short of childish and abrasive bickering. I hate when people try to put words and inferences into other people's posts when it suits them to.:mad:

    The problem with people speculating as to why Ryan u-turned on the memorandum is that its irrelevant and will probably never come out in the wash. Was it UPC, OneVision or BBCWW. It matters little now. He did it and apart from giving us more ammunition to shoot him with, we will probably never know his reasons. Such is politics.
    Having said that, Ryan wasted a lot of taxpayers money putting in place the MOU ceremony and getting it signed into legislation only to render it worthless the following day. Elmo has spent the last month defending the indefensible and thats what is getting up the nose of some posters here. The buck for this fiasco stops firmly at Ryans feet, Not Sile De Valeras or anybody elses feet. He is the guy with the portfolio and the fiasco happened on his watch by his hand.


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