Government agreement: Free-To-Air RTE in NI, BBC in RoI on DTT platform

Elmo

marclt wrote: »

Popular channels like what???

E4, E!, Virgin 1, Sky 3, MTV, ITV2, BBC3, VIVA, 4MUSIC you know the popular ones.

Sam Russell

The main competition to Onevision is going to be Freesat, as it provides nearly all the non-sport viewers want. Sky & NTL subsciption is much more than the €10 that onevision predict. They need to add channels that are not available on FTA sat, if they are to be attractive. There are only 25% of the population that do not have the Beeb in one form or other. Could they attract viewers/subscribers from NTL & $ky?

I will not be subscribing whatever they do. I have freesat so I need no more.

Elmo

Sam Russell wrote: »

I will not be subscribing whatever they do. I have freesat so I need no more.

They may as well allow new Irish channels similar to those not on Satellite or FreeView. Rather than filling up space with more and more Transnational TV. What about an Irish Music Channel? etc.

Sam Russell

Elmo wrote: »

They may as well allow new Irish channels similar to those not on Satellite or FreeView. Rather than filling up space with more and more Transnational TV. What about an Irish Music Channel? etc.

Exactly, lots of new Irish channels, but not the TV3 approach of 'RedTop' TV, with its overEPOSED approach to celebrity and gossip.

Music, a la Lyrric would be good. A mix of Jazz, Blues, Classical, Opera, Modern, Traditional. Maybe theatre productions.

But not a way of giving us another chance to see 'Murder She Wrote', 'Friends' or 'The Simpsons' What we need is more chances to miss them!

scath

Sam Russell wrote: »

If BBC 1,2 were added to the pub mux FTA, I do not see how this would affect OneVision, as they alone would not make much difference to subscribers. Furthermore, Onevision would not have to pay the royalties or transmission of them, leaving space on their own mux to add more interesting and popular channels. So the public mux would carry 7+ channels, and the commercial muxs would carry 25 or so channels. They should be delighted to see the public mux carry the Beeb.

Short sighted.:)

Exactly Sam, and UPC should be saying, grand, now negotiate likewise for us too & we won't have issues or we can do a combo box to satisfy must carry. Talking about 'hourse and carriage' through business plan is not a good reflecting of their strategy. What if word gets out, what happens then, & many go for FTA satellite, with a feeling of being 'overcharged' potentially by the viewer. No, you have it right Sam, because all they're doing is encouraging FTA satellite which will be bad for them. The idea should be to keep viewers away from FTA satellite by having BBC, UTV FTA on Irish DTT, encouraing viewers to go for Sky sports form them. No reasons for FTA satellite.

I think it reflects poorly on the Minister and OneVision to return to the status quo. Sure the UK Gov would be only delighted at the u-turn, as will the BBC. What will happen is this will be one more reason for voters to bite back at Minister Ryan in election 2012, that he gave way to a commercial operator instead of having the foresight to recognise that BBC as paid for on Irish DTT is strategically flawed and bad for DTT. Its unsustainable and not required by viewers. Its a sure way to encourage satellite FTA uptake to later make Sky switch easier. Great for Sky, bad for UPC, bad for Onevision, bad for Irish DTT

Elmo

How much do Sky and UPC pay for BBC Worldwide Channels on their EPG in ROI plus the extra amount from One Vision?

Apogee

A possible compromise solution would be for OneVision to soft-encrypt BBC1 and BBC2 as an incentive for people to purchase their boxes.

The Cush

Apogee wrote: »

A possible compromise solution would be for OneVision to soft-encrypt BBC1 and BBC2 as an incentive for people to purchase their boxes.

I agree, suggested this previously.

Sam Russell

As I said before, this was a political agreement, not a commercial one. This gives the opportunity to get the UK government to put the costs associated with it into the political cost of peace in NI, and the BBC can charge to that account. Whether it would be expected that royalties be paid to the Beeb, which I doubt, they could be cancelled out by the royalties otherwise forgone by RTE for NI coverage, so no net royalties would be payable. If this were to go ahead, it would require a rethink by RTE on schedules, as for example 'East Enders' would be pointless on RTE, and, hopefully, would lead to a rebirth of home produced programmes. A true digital dividend if it were to occur.

Elmo

Sam Russell wrote: »

as for example 'East Enders' would be pointless on RTE, and, hopefully, would lead to a rebirth of home produced programmes. A true digital dividend if it were to occur.

Perhaps the BBC could have a rethink on that also.

Sam Russell

Elmo wrote: »

Perhaps the BBC could have a rethink on that also.

Gerry Wicklow

Sam Russell wrote: »

for example 'East Enders' would be pointless on RTE,

I thought it was pointless anyway:D
The same arguement could be applied to TV3 / UTV since they share so many progs. Again all these are available on FreeSat if only more rural Irish people knew.

Sam Russell

Gerry Wicklow wrote: »

I thought it was pointless anyway:D
The same arguement could be applied to TV3 / UTV since they share so many progs. Again all these are available on FreeSat if only more rural Irish people knew.

I think TV3 put more advertising into their breaks than UTV or ITV, probably more than they are allowed to, but I do not think it is policed.

Anyway, the main point is that Ryan messed it all up. [But his web site still has the Beeb FTA!]

The Cush

Sam Russell wrote: »

As I said before, this was a political agreement, not a commercial one.

My reference to soft-encrytion in the link above was commercial related - get the cams/cards & STBs into peoples homes with channels such as the BBC, UTV etc. To upgrade to the pay service (at some time in the future) may then only require a phone call.

Apogee

The Cush wrote: »

I agree, suggested this previously.

They made a fuss about providing 6 extra free channels as part of their proposal. No mention of soft-encryption, although it would make commerical sense. In the current climate, only 1 or maybe 2 of the original 6 will see the light of day, so the addition of even BBC1 alone would be a useful enticement.

The Cush

channelsurfer2 wrote: »

all mention of bbc being available free to air has been removed from the DCMNR website.

http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/Press+Releases/Boost+for+Irish+Language+Broadcasting.htm

methinks onevision had a word with em........ ah well it was too good to be true..

The Cush wrote: »

The reference to free-to-air BBC also removed from the UK's Dept. for Media, Culture and Sport and Northern Ireland Office websites.

Old Text in the Press Releases


New Text in the Press Releases

Over a week after it was posted here (Fri 5th Feb) that Eamon Ryan and the Dept of Comms did a u-turn on free BBC, the printed press have finally reported on it. Incorrectly reported in the article that it was done this week.

Green Party website press release still unchanged.

Councillor Cadogan Enright said: "The deal reached this week will provide free BBC and RTÉ digital TV services to households across the island, following the switchover to digital television.

...

So it is very much in the interest of fostering cultural understanding and development between all communities that these channels should be freely accessibly across the island.

Cantillon

Sat, Feb 13, 2010

Inside the world of business

...

Rupert will be pleased

When it comes to digital terrestrial television (DTT), Green Party minister for communications Eamon Ryan has struggled to articulate himself clearly. Last week, he trumpeted a deal with his British counterparts in relation to carrying terrestrial channels on the respective DTT platforms north and south of the Border. Little did he know he was stirring up a hornets nest with pay-TV operators here, particularly NTL/Chorus and Sky.

The memorandum committed the Government to facilitating “BBC services in Ireland on a free-to-air basis”, according to a release from the department of communications. In return, RTÉ and TG4 would be available on a free-to-air basis in the North. NTL/Chorus and Sky fork out millions of euro each year to the BBC to carry its channels. The Beeb is hugely popular in the Republic and helps to sell subscriptions for the pay TV companies.

So they weren’t impressed when Ryan appeared to pull the rug from under them.

Lo and behold, the Department of Communications this week amended the text of the release. It now reads: “The memorandum commits the two governments to facilitating the widespread availability of RTE services in Northern Ireland on a free-to-air basis and BBC services in Ireland on a paid-for basis.”

Rupert Murdoch will be pleased.

...

---

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For regular commentary on business and economic issues visit our blog, Current Account, at www.irishtimes.com/blogs/business

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Richard

lawhec wrote: »

Channel 4+1 might be "sacrificed" if Mux7 isn't an option, though my experience is that its picture quality on Freeview for the channels can at times be appalling.

ITV2+1 is currently on Mux2 as a place holder for a future ITV1+1 (maybe UTV+1?).

I think that ITV2+1 is only a placeholder for ITV1 +1 in the ITV plc regions (it is currently just labelled "ITV") In UTV and STV-land, where ITV2+1 is labelled as such and us on a different channel, ITV 1+1 will not launch, presumably because ITV plc have the rights to the capacity and wouldn't want to give away advertising revenue.

The Cush

Written answer from Eamon Ryan in reply to Liz McManus in relation to the MoU. No mention of the u-turn.

Tuesday, 16 February 2010

Broadcasting Services.

546. Deputy Liz McManus asked the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources if, in view of the announcement that RTÉ will be free to air in the North of Ireland and BBC in the South of Ireland, this arrangement will include their respective Internet players, RTÉ Player in the North of Ireland and the BBC iPlayer in the South of Ireland; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [7611/10]

Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources (Deputy Eamon Ryan): The Memorandum of Understanding that I signed with my UK counterpart, Secretary of State Ben Bradshaw, MP, on 1 February 2010 deals with broadcast services and related radio spectrum issues in the context of the provision of digital terrestrial services on the island of Ireland.

The Memorandum aims to facilitate the widespread availability of RTÉ in Northern Ireland and BBC in the south. It is my intention that RTÉ services will be available on a ‘free-to-air’ basis throughout the island of Ireland. The manner in which BBC services will be provided will, in the first instance, be a matter for the BBC.

The Memorandum does not encompass the provision of public broadcast services on other platforms, such as the Internet, and the availability of the BBC iPlayer services in Ireland is a commercial matter for the BBC.

In regard to the availability of the RTÉ Player, I can confirm that, on 12 January 2010, RTÉ became one of the first broadcasters in the world to launch a comprehensive international online TV catch-up service when it made its Internet-based RTÉ Player service available on a worldwide basis.

A copy of the Memorandum of Understanding is available on www.dcenr.ie.

http://debates.oireachtas.ie/DDebate.aspx?F=DAL20100216.xml&Node=4231#N4231

channelsurfer2

soft chuckle... reminds me of the answers that are given to other pq's that civil servants write for the ministers...avoid making any guarantees or timeframe commitments cos sure as heck the deputy will be back in a couple of months with another pq if the timeframe passes...

10000maniacs

Cush wrote: »

The manner in which BBC services will be provided will, in the first instance, be a matter for the BBC.

Ryan, you slimy sod.:mad:
He is actually passing the buck to the BBC, in effect blaming them for the u-turn which is not the case at all. Ryan was the one who u-turned after intense lobbying from Eircom and quite possibly UPC. The BBC/British government were always willing to have BBC services on DTT in the South as a recipricol agreement and actually signed the original document on the 1st of Feburary to that effect.

Sam Russell

It was idiotic for Ryan to have changed that agreement. In the original agreement, signed by politicians, the FTA commitment was clearly made and would have to be paid for by the respective governments. Usually the costs are bourne where they lie, so BBC would pay the transmission charges for NI, and RTENL would pay for the transmission in the republic. No royalties would be paid. If it was Onevision or UPC who complained then it was complete folly on their part, as they are then committed to pay for what was offered for free.

It would make no difference to Onevision if the BEEB was on the public Mux, as people who will pay for TV would want more, and those who do not want to pay, will not pay anyway.

Numpty Ryan and his advisors.:mad:

Elmo

The agreement was rushed through by both Ministers in both countries without much consultation. I don't believe that UPC or Sky would have really stood up and said anything unless they have see a huge drop in the numbers of people subscribing in recent months and I don't think that has actually happened.

One Vision could have complained or It could have come from the BBC. Remember BBC Worldwide (The Commercial arm of the BBC) earns money from Irish Subscriptions and Irish Television Channels for their programming, it might not be much but might still be worth it, and BBC WW don't want to see a reduction in the prices paid to them for their products.

I think the ministers should state who approached the governments after this announcement was made.

I think the addition of BBC NI would not have been an issue.

The BBC/British government were always willing to have BBC services on DTT in the South as a recipricol agreement and actually signed the original document on the 1st of Feburary to that effect.

As did the Irish Government. The problem with the agreement is that it seems that neither BBC nor RTÉ were advised of it before it was signed.

I definitely think that somebody lobbied the governments on this issue, it would be nice to know who.

At the end of the day it was a PR stunt by both governments. The British for RTÉ and TG4 in the North and the Irish for BBC NI in the south.

10000maniacs

Sam Russell wrote: »

It would make no difference to Onevision if the BEEB was on the public Mux:

Well I suppose it would make people less inclined in non multi-channel areas to go for a OneVision pay-tv package if as well as RTE/TV3/TG4, they would also have BBC1+2. BUT thats not the point.
Sacrificing a historic agreement for the well being of an commercial entity that has failed before its even begun, i.e. OneVision, will cause a huge dent in an Irish DTT strategy when once broken will be impossible to repair.
In my opinion, the strategy for a successful Irish DTT platform is to offer as many channels as is humanly possible for free, then introduce a secondary Top-Up TV service offering premium channels, maybe Sky HD Sports or movies and music channels.
Regarding the UK terrestrial channels as premium in Ireland may have been ok in the 70's and 80's but this is a huge mistake in the current environment.

Elmo

10000maniacs wrote: »

In my opinion, the strategy for a successful Irish DTT platform is to offer as many channels as is humanly possible for free.

What channels are you suggesting?

Mr McBoatface

@ Sam Russell

I totally agree with you, I couldn't have put it better.

I'm one of those people who thinks the TV license is enough to pay and I don't like the idea of paying anything extra. I've BBC, ITV etc including some HD available on Free-Sat @ no cost to me, RTE_NL digital available (90% of the time "It's a test signal" ) on my combo HTPC. As I see it what I currently have is equal/better than any basic package that may be offered on DTT.

Should I every decide to return to pay TV I'm going to choose Sky as I'll get more bang for my buck, I'll want more than will be available on the pay DTT service and the idea of paying for BBC etc on DTT when it's free to me on satellite is just plain crazy.

10000maniacs

Elmo wrote: »

What channels are you suggesting?

All of the Irish Channels, BBC 1, BBC 2, UTV, Channel 4, any of the virgin commercials, Viva, MTV, Bravo, in short, any channel that carries Irish adverts and is willing to do it.

Elmo

10000maniacs wrote: »

All of the Irish Channels, BBC 1, BBC 2, UTV, Channel 4, any of the virgin commercials, Viva, MTV, Bravo, in short, any channel that carries Irish adverts and is willing to do it.

And who will pay for all of these channels to be made available on Irish DTT? Will Viacom, Virigin, Discovery Inc or MTV Networks pay to be on Irish DTT?

slegs

Elmo wrote: »

And who will pay for all of these channels to be made available on Irish DTT? Will Viacom, Virigin, Discovery Inc or MTV Networks pay to be on Irish DTT?

Who is to say they wouldnt pay a costs covering fee if it was worth their while with advertising revenue. We are not even allowing the possibility of a Irish freeview type service in favour of propping up an unviable Pay DTT service. RTE's operational costs for the service are more likely to be covered if it is success in terms of VIEWERS.

In my opinion a tiny amount of people on a Pay TV platform is less likey to be able to provide cost coverage for RTENL than a large amount of viewers providing advertising revenue to commercial stations.

The sooner the Pay DTT debacle is canned the better.

Elmo

slegs wrote: »

Who is to say they wouldnt pay a costs covering fee if it was worth their while with advertising revenue. We are not even allowing the possibility of a Irish freeview type service in favour of propping up an unviable Pay DTT service. RTE's operational costs for the service are more likely to be covered if it is success in terms of VIEWERS.

I agree with you all that Pay DTT is not a runner.

But to think that we should submit our network - and it is our network - to Channels with no remit to Irish audience other than they are free is just shotting Irish TV in the foot.

50% of all advertising revenue would see itself out of the country into the hands of the big companies you are all talking about. And it isn't like RTÉ, TV3 or TG4 are going to be available across the UK, in exchange for British aimed services who will take 50% of the advertising reveune we will get NI and TG4 and RTÉ could expect to get less than 10% of that markets advertising share. It doesn't seem to pay of for the Irish viewer, the Irish Economy or Irish programming.

DTT in the UK has pretty much been ring fenced for UK channels, BBC, ITV, C4 and five each have 2 or more DTT channels and a few from Virgin, MTV, UKTV and Sky but they main rely on pay TV.

The DTT services would have been better of with the BAI issuing licences for DTT services local, community and commercial that reside in Ireland and that would pay for space on the network. With RTÉ, TV3 and TG4 been given the opportunity to provide other services. Free TV that would create jobs in the country or at least retain jobs.

To give the spectrum totally over to major players in the international market would certainly kill TV3. And while I have reservation about TV3 I would rather see them compete with MiTV than MTV, WTV than Living, PTV than Home.

The Cush

Elmo wrote: »

The agreement was rushed through by both Ministers in both countries without much consultation.

The discussions were ongoing prior to May 09, as UTV said in their written submission to the Commons Inquiry on 01 May 09 "3.2. However we have a significant concern about the discussions between the British and Irish Governments to allow RTE to be carried on digital multiplex in Northern Ireland" and "4.6. We believe there should be reciprocity of carriage for UTV on digital platforms in the Republic of Ireland as part of any inter-Government agreement that RTE receives carriage on digital multiplex in Northern Ireland".