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Bouncers-do we really need them?

2

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,038 ✭✭✭jackiebaron


    McNulty32 wrote: »
    Well can tell you Im very mild mannered and keep to myself and rarely get into fights unless Im provoked, why should I have be abused by some arsehole about what Im wearing or where Ive been, when all I want to do is go into my local pub and have a drink which is what Im legally entitled to do?

    Have I not the right to tell this person with no authority what I think of his comments?


    If this was your "local" pub then you should have been well known there. In fact you should be on first name terms with ALL the staff and that includes the doorstaff. The doorstaff should have easily known you and would not be asking you where you were coming from and if you had ever been in the establishment before.
    And for your information, doorstaff DO have authority. They have the authority AND the right to refuse entry to the premises. Bars and pubs are not like public parks or beaches or stretches of common land where nobody BUT NOBODY can be refused entry.

    Doormen and bouncers are required to screen out undesirables and keep the peace. Some abuse their power because they're ignorant and immature. Others practice the shabby tactic of letting in the tarty or attractive girls and refusing entry to the plain-janes. But by and large they're ok blokes. They're just on edge because they have to be. The bouncer knows that he is always just one step away from some wanker coming back, mobbed up, with a stanley knife and slashing his face because he kicked the wanker out.

    I've got a problem with people who abuse their positions of power and direct it towards people who have no way out...such as customs officials or airport security. If a cop in the street asks me questions I just refuse to answer him and walk off. There's nothing he can do. I know my rights. If a bouncer is a wanker I just go elsewhere. But if he asks the bog standard questions like "How much have yez had to drink tonight lads?" then he wants to determine if I/we are leathered and likely to cause a disturbance/nuisance. I'll simply say "Howya mate. Only had a couple of pints. Just came out an hour ago." I'm not going to get all snotty like you and say "None of your damn business, you pig-ignorant, minimum wage peasant!".

    Get the damn chip off your shoulder and grow the fück up, man!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    Meh, they're there to keep the peace which the majority of them do well, course theres dickheads who take one look at you and decide you're not coming in, but its part of going out, if you want to avoid it, go to pubs with no bouncers, plenty of them.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 122 ✭✭happymondays


    I used to go to this busy club, the dance floor was always packed and there were always bouncers right at the edge of the dancefloor. And I would always get harassed by creeps, coming up to me even though I said go away, and grabbing me. And the bouncers never did anything, even if you asked them too! Now if 2 guys started a fight, they got dragged out straight away, but it was fine to sexually assault women. And since all the bouncers had the same attitude, you know they were told that was the code of conduct.



    copper face jacks wasnt it!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 24,878 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    I used to go to this busy club, the dance floor was always packed and there were always bouncers right at the edge of the dancefloor. And I would always get harassed by creeps, coming up to me even though I said go away, and grabbing me. And the bouncers never did anything, even if you asked them too! Now if 2 guys started a fight, they got dragged out straight away, but it was fine to sexually assault women. And since all the bouncers had the same attitude, you know they were told that was the code of conduct.

    Not slagging you off, but maybe you were known as a moanbag, some chic's are like that. Always moaning to the security staff about being harassed by lads.

    After awhile ya just take the attitude 'oh, its your woman moaning again'.

    Usually staff on the edge of the floor are looking for all sorts of behaviour, anything from both men and women being harassed, to smokers, people dancing with bottles and glasses. People who are barred, but got passed the door etc.

    Never once have I known of a club with a policy of allowing anyone, regardless of gender be harassed, so maybe its just you!.

    Bouncer's are not just employed to deal with underage drinkers trying to gain entry, or to deal with fights.. But there's all sorts of people who try to gain entry whom the average punter wouldn't have a clue about.

    A good doorman with a bit of service in Dublin will know most of the local dippers & junkies who'd get in and literally steal thousands of euro worth of property in minutes.

    Or homeless people who'd wander in hasseling people or money, or chugger's shaking buckets in your face etc etc.

    Its a busy enough environment to work in, and a lot of that work is unseen by the punters.


  • Posts: 23,339 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    McNulty32 wrote: »
    Well can tell you Im very mild mannered and keep to myself and rarely get into fights unless Im provoked,

    How frequent is rare ? I'm 30 and was only in one altercation. I have gone out once or twice a week every week in either Cork, Dublin, Galway or wherever else I have been living. If you find you are frequently being provoked into fighting there is something wrong somewhere. From the opening post you seem overly agressive, if I was on the door you wouldn't have gotten in either after you swore at me.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,512 ✭✭✭BigDuffman


    I worked the door for five years when I was in college. So one might say that I am biased. The one thing I'll say is that tarring all doormen with the same brush is a ridiculous....the bus driver who I encountered today was an out and out w@nker. I do not suddenly deem all bus drivers to be power mad ignorant pricks.

    Most people who encounter or have dealings with bouncers do so whilst they are under the influence. Whilst your irrational and off your face someone stopping you from where you want to go or asking an odd question will result in you reacting in a way which you mightn't usually.

    You know when you eventually surface on a monday morning and you look at the photo's which you have been tagged in on facebook? And then think "good jaysus the state on me" as you see yourself with one eye half closed drink spilt / vomit down your shirt and burger king wrapper stuck to your foot.

    You thought you were the sh!t on the night, off on the pull no doubt, but sobriety casts a different sheen. Now consider that the sober door man stopped you in that state whilst you were trying to get into the club. To which you then responded "I'm *hic* graaand, havn't had anyching to drunk".

    This will then escalate in various stages of bravado, aggression and arguments which all seem perfectly acceptable with a few too many brews on board.

    Doormen (aresupposed to if they are good at their job) stop underagers, dippers, drunks + various other ne'erdowells and scumbags. They also ensure that the clubs un/official policy is upheld at the door (be that membership, demeanour or dress-code). So as that the environment that you enjoy within the club is upheld. GAA jersey grand in coppers "go ahead lads". Cap and trackie bottoms in lillies "sorry lads not tonight".

    Calls are made on the door based on the bouncers experience and gut feeling. Fair enough, the right call might not be made all the time. But most club owners and decent people would prefer 5 people who just didn't seem right at the time being refused rather than one nut job going to town with a broken bottle getting in.

    Bouncers within the clubs, eject people that are a danger to themselves and others (sliding down the banisters from the 3rd floor is great craic when drunk) and stop / prevent fights.

    In the course of their shift they will be abused, tormented and spat at, they may be attacked, have to break up fights, carry people out of clubs.

    Then go back to the door after a fight to have some, snobby prick at 02:25 who's off his head on coke and heino calling you "an ill-educated, low life thug" go get a real job etc etc. The same chap who will be screaming for a bouncer to come rescue him when some scumbag is pounding the head off him against the bar. You then tell me wouldn't give a smart answer or be short with someone like that.

    Regarding the OP i'd of turned you away too. Your aggressive attitude would of had you ear marked. Was it necessary to curse? How would you feel if someone immediately became aggressive with you and started cursing at you in your job?

    Your mates cap is usually not looked as appropriate in most clubs / pubs. It also means that the door man cant see your friends face. So he cant make a call on his state of mind or if he knows you and the CCTV cannot see his face.

    From personal experience, some chap with head down and cap pulled over his face making his way towards the door is never usually up to any good.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,584 ✭✭✭TouchingVirus


    McNulty32 wrote: »
    shouldnt the over paid Gardai not be called to stop it rather then these power tripping apes?

    :eek::eek:


    :rolleyes:


  • Posts: 23,339 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    :eek::eek:


    :rolleyes:


    Indeed, fight in club, ring Gardai, they arrive in say 5 to 10 mins (best case scenario), at least one party in the fight should be in bits by then, and the other party may well have fecked off.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,584 ✭✭✭TouchingVirus


    My shock was at the bolded bit ...the OP manages to nail the bouncers, and then the Gardai ..a double whammy of bullshít :D
    If this was your "local" pub then you should have been well known there. In fact you should be on first name terms with ALL the staff and that includes the doorstaff. The doorstaff should have easily known you and would not be asking you where you were coming from and if you had ever been in the establishment before.

    Not really. There is a difference between local and regular, though the two seem to be used synonymously. I'm not know at my "local" pub, even though I do go there from time to time.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,595 ✭✭✭bonerm


    Bouncers-do we really need them?

    Depends. Are a significant % of Irish people assholes? Does this % become even more noticeable when drink is involved?


  • Posts: 23,339 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Yeah, hard to describe them as over paid in these times, maybe a few years back when they were on a few hundred a month more after tax etc. And then he calls bouncers apes, the chap seems an awful knob.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    RoverJames wrote: »
    Indeed, fight in club, ring Gardai, they arrive in say 5 to 10 mins (best case scenario), at least one party in the fight should be in bits by then, and the other party may well have fecked off.

    I think he meant in regards to the suggestion that they are being over paid :P.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,038 ✭✭✭jackiebaron


    Funny how this self-righteous, pompous OP transforms his dislike for the questioning of a bouncer into the question as to whether bouncers in general are needed. To use his infantile logic I could conteplate the following scenario:

    I came out of my house the other day and the bin-men were collecting the rubbish. As I walked along the footpath I noticed that up ahead the pavement was a scene of garbage apocalypse. Clearly some neighbourhood dogs had gotten into the bins and trashed them. As I got closer this short-arsed, ugly, baldy little troll of a bin-man yelled to me " 'Scuse me, chief, but d'ya mind crossing over to the other path. This one's in rag-order. We're trying to sweep it all up!". I replied to the vermin "Look, you overpaid wretch, I'll walk where I want, damn you! It's my right. You have no authority. And at least I have hair, chrome-dome!".

    Bin-men. Do we really need them?

    So then I continued on my way. I was visiting a friend in hospital who had sustained a nasty fracture and was laid up for a few days. When I arrived at the hospital I was approached by this ugly, short-arsed, old hag of a nurse who had the audacity to start asking me questions about what my business was in the hospital. I swore venomously at this revolting piece of trash. She mentioned that it was outside of visiting hours. How dare she have confronted me. I have every right to enter that hospital whenever I please. She then went about annoying other patients asking them if they were alright and constantly checking up on them.

    Nurses. Do we really need them?

    I boarded the bus to return home. I normally take a taxi or have my father's driver drop me wherever I wish to go but today neither were available. I asked the driver the fare and he told me 1.75. I put 2 euro coins into the slot and got my ticket. I asked the ugly, short-arsed, baldy, goblin where my change was. He informed me that the machines don't dispense change. One must provide exact fare or receive a refund slip. I swore viciously at this hideous, little troglodyte and assured him that the reason these machines are in place is because ill-educated, illiterate, inumerate clowns like him don't have the education to do the simplest of arithmetic computations.

    Bus drivers. Do we really need them?

    Throughout the course of my afternoon I had numerous confrontations with other persons in a variety of occupations. I gave all of them a piece of my mind, swore at them and, for the most part, sneered at and belittled them.

    Shopkeepers, waiters, gardai, carpenters, groundskeepers, librarians.

    Do we really need them?


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 21,674 Mod ✭✭✭✭helimachoptor



    A good doorman with a bit of service in Dublin will know most of the local dippers & junkies who'd get in and literally steal thousands of euro worth of property in minutes.

    Or homeless people who'd wander in hasseling people or money, or chugger's shaking buckets in your face etc etc.

    I presume a dipper is a handbag/wallet/purse thief?

    Had the homeless hassling while in liverpool on a stag, seriously fcuking annoying. Every 5 minutes!


  • Posts: 23,339 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]



    Had the homeless hassling while in liverpool on a stag, seriously fcuking annoying. Every 5 minutes!


    In the lobby of the Adelphi ? :D


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,335 ✭✭✭✭UrbanSea


    I think certain bouncers can be some of the soundest lads you're likely to meet. Some may be dicks,but ya,even doctors can be dicks,I've met some.
    I was a bit pissed off last week. Was in a well known night club in Galway,and it's known to have a bit of a knacker clientell. There was a good crowd of people going in anyway so I said I'd head.
    Bouncers on the door were sound,chatted to one for a minute as I stood inside the door waiting for my friends,all was grand.
    We were out the back in the smoking area anyway and the place was absolutely wedged,couldn't get moving. As myself and two of my comrades were walking back up,I was on one side of the smoking area and they were on the other(got separated because of the crowd) a fight kicked off between a fella about an arms length away from me and another who was on my other side. I wasn't drunk so started to get worried. I didn't know any of the lads and they were about to go hell for leather with me and one or two others in the very middle.
    Anyway,the fella on my right got held back but the lad on my left was still going for him. I reached out and I held back the other lad,who kept trying to struggle but I was telling him to 'Chill out'. Then I saw the bouncers coming so thought that would be all so I released him.
    Next thing I know a bouncer is grabbing me and bringing me down to the back to kick me out. I was pissed off but kept calm and asked him why I was being kicked out and was told 'she wanted you out' (a female bouncer). That was grand,I walked myself out,he knew I wasn't up to anything.
    Was pissed off outside but didn't stand banging the back door threatening them like other idiots. 2 other people who had been trying to stop the fight got kicked out but the 2 lads who were attempting to fight didn't.
    This isn't a story I'm trying to paint out about me being treated unfairly(bearing in mind I wasn't drunk),but I'm not going to hold it against the bouncers,I mean,when they came,they could see me holding the fella so probably thought I was trying to fight him.
    Bouncers aren't going to kick people out or be dicks to them for no reason. If a bouncer is being a prick you probably deserve it and just leave it for that night,and don't hold a grudge against them for the next time,they're only doing their job.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,987 ✭✭✭ottostreet


    Bouncers are, of course, needed.

    A club/pub full of drunken people is divided up like this:

    70% wanker
    20% unconscious/asleep/barely has a hold on reality
    10% lovely


    The amount of times I've had to have bouncers intervene on my behalf because of abusive punters "OMG you have to play counting crows, its my BIIIIRRRRTHDAYYYYY" and then get cross because i refuse to because its 2 o clock in a busy nightclub. Anyone who thinks that bouncers aren't needed has never worked sober in the pub/club industry.


  • Posts: 23,339 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    ottostreet wrote: »

    A club/pub full of drunken people is divided up like this:

    70% wanker
    20% unconscious/asleep/barely has a hold on reality
    10% lovely


    Tou don't honestly think 70% of people in a club / pub are **** do you ?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,463 ✭✭✭Antomus Prime


    NothingMan wrote: »
    Only ever been refused twice. Once was Qbar and it was about 1am and me and my mates had a jockey back race to the door, stumbled up to the entrance to a laughing bouncer who just smiled and shook his head and told us "we were well oiled". We couldn't disagree so we jumoed back on each others backs and raced off to Dorans where we got in without a bother :cool:...to an empty bar :(.

    Second time was Krstyle and the "elitist" a$$holes that run the place had the bouncers on a "members only" (Hot sluts and fair city actors) buzz so we were declined. Probably had a better time in Dicey's anyway.

    Had one bouncer at Citi bar make stop me as I walked up and asked why I was so nervous. I was fine til you started making me paranoid about how I looked ya arse! He let me in though. Wish he didn't, the pints were muck.


    Eh was I a part of this jockey back race? Sounds familiar but i dont recall properly, and as for krystle, I'm glad we got refused that nite, saw a few pics from a friends nite in there and it just looks like another lillies, full of pompus up the own a**e shams.

    But getting back to the topic, My theory on it is that some pubs need bouncers, some dont. Depends on the clientel but it's always a good idea to have them. ALL NITECLUBS need them, not only is their job to control what sort of people go inot the premisies, but also to control the VOLUME of people! Could you imagine if there was noone regulationg the number of people in clubs in Dublin cuty center?? F*****G Mayhem!!!!!!

    Although alot of them do have attitude problems and are on power trips, you could say the very same thing about every single profession there is,

    So to conclude.........................

    YES WE DO NEED BOUNCERS!!!!!!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,165 ✭✭✭✭brianthebard


    Bet the OP is short....


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,459 ✭✭✭Riddle101


    Funny how this self-righteous, pompous OP transforms his dislike for the questioning of a bouncer into the question as to whether bouncers in general are needed. To use his infantile logic I could conteplate the following scenario:

    I came out of my house the other day and the bin-men were collecting the rubbish. As I walked along the footpath I noticed that up ahead the pavement was a scene of garbage apocalypse. Clearly some neighbourhood dogs had gotten into the bins and trashed them. As I got closer this short-arsed, ugly, baldy little troll of a bin-man yelled to me " 'Scuse me, chief, but d'ya mind crossing over to the other path. This one's in rag-order. We're trying to sweep it all up!". I replied to the vermin "Look, you overpaid wretch, I'll walk where I want, damn you! It's my right. You have no authority. And at least I have hair, chrome-dome!".

    Bin-men. Do we really need them?

    So then I continued on my way. I was visiting a friend in hospital who had sustained a nasty fracture and was laid up for a few days. When I arrived at the hospital I was approached by this ugly, short-arsed, old hag of a nurse who had the audacity to start asking me questions about what my business was in the hospital. I swore venomously at this revolting piece of trash. She mentioned that it was outside of visiting hours. How dare she have confronted me. I have every right to enter that hospital whenever I please. She then went about annoying other patients asking them if they were alright and constantly checking up on them.

    Nurses. Do we really need them?

    I boarded the bus to return home. I normally take a taxi or have my father's driver drop me wherever I wish to go but today neither were available. I asked the driver the fare and he told me 1.75. I put 2 euro coins into the slot and got my ticket. I asked the ugly, short-arsed, baldy, goblin where my change was. He informed me that the machines don't dispense change. One must provide exact fare or receive a refund slip. I swore viciously at this hideous, little troglodyte and assured him that the reason these machines are in place is because ill-educated, illiterate, inumerate clowns like him don't have the education to do the simplest of arithmetic computations.

    Bus drivers. Do we really need them?

    Throughout the course of my afternoon I had numerous confrontations with other persons in a variety of occupations. I gave all of them a piece of my mind, swore at them and, for the most part, sneered at and belittled them.

    Shopkeepers, waiters, gardai, carpenters, groundskeepers, librarians.

    Do we really need them?

    Haha, nice one. When I was reading this I was picturing it as if David Mitchell was saying it


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 112 ✭✭google faps


    Funny how this self-righteous, pompous OP transforms his dislike for the questioning of a bouncer into the question as to whether bouncers in general are needed. To use his infantile logic I could conteplate the following scenario:

    I came out of my house the other day and the bin-men were collecting the rubbish. As I walked along the footpath I noticed that up ahead the pavement was a scene of garbage apocalypse. Clearly some neighbourhood dogs had gotten into the bins and trashed them. As I got closer this short-arsed, ugly, baldy little troll of a bin-man yelled to me " 'Scuse me, chief, but d'ya mind crossing over to the other path. This one's in rag-order. We're trying to sweep it all up!". I replied to the vermin "Look, you overpaid wretch, I'll walk where I want, damn you! It's my right. You have no authority. And at least I have hair, chrome-dome!".

    Bin-men. Do we really need them?

    So then I continued on my way. I was visiting a friend in hospital who had sustained a nasty fracture and was laid up for a few days. When I arrived at the hospital I was approached by this ugly, short-arsed, old hag of a nurse who had the audacity to start asking me questions about what my business was in the hospital. I swore venomously at this revolting piece of trash. She mentioned that it was outside of visiting hours. How dare she have confronted me. I have every right to enter that hospital whenever I please. She then went about annoying other patients asking them if they were alright and constantly checking up on them.

    Nurses. Do we really need them?

    I boarded the bus to return home. I normally take a taxi or have my father's driver drop me wherever I wish to go but today neither were available. I asked the driver the fare and he told me 1.75. I put 2 euro coins into the slot and got my ticket. I asked the ugly, short-arsed, baldy, goblin where my change was. He informed me that the machines don't dispense change. One must provide exact fare or receive a refund slip. I swore viciously at this hideous, little troglodyte and assured him that the reason these machines are in place is because ill-educated, illiterate, inumerate clowns like him don't have the education to do the simplest of arithmetic computations.

    Bus drivers. Do we really need them?

    Throughout the course of my afternoon I had numerous confrontations with other persons in a variety of occupations. I gave all of them a piece of my mind, swore at them and, for the most part, sneered at and belittled them.

    Shopkeepers, waiters, gardai, carpenters, groundskeepers, librarians.

    Do we really need them?
    You're not comparing like with like.
    Those people contribute something to society.
    Bouncers don't.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Yes, we do need bouncers but professionally trained ones.
    A lot of the ones that I have come across (just locally) are goons in suits.
    That said, good ones DO exist. They are usually the most quiet ones, not the most mouthy ones.

    Ask a non profession bouncer what are the legal rights in relation to the laying of hands upon another person and they wouldn't have a clue.

    Thats when you can tell the difference between a pro and a untrained local possibly just doing a nixer.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,274 ✭✭✭_feedback_


    You're not comparing like with like.
    Those people contribute something to society.
    Bouncers don't.

    I think they are comparable. Because they are simply doing their job. Some bouncers of course are idiots, like you find in every profession.

    Do you think a (small/bald/thick/ugly) shopkeeper should be allowed refuse someone at the door?
    Biggins wrote: »
    Thats when you can tell the difference between a pro and a untrained local possibly just doing a nixer.

    I may be wrong Biggins, but I'm pretty sure that training is compulsary now?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    I think they are comparable. Because they are simply doing their job. Some bouncers of course are idiots, like you find in every profession.

    Do you think a (small/bald/thick/ugly) shopkeeper should be allowed refuse someone at the door?

    I may be wrong Biggins, but I'm pretty sure that training is compulsory now?
    Yes - and supposed to be licenced, but there is feck all being done to enforce this (and no one as far as I can see, is checking either).


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,274 ✭✭✭_feedback_


    Biggins wrote: »
    Yes - and supposed to be licenced, but there is feck all being done to enforce this (and no one as far as I can see, is checking either).

    Well, there's a surprise ! :pac:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,080 ✭✭✭foxinsox


    I think we need bouncers.

    Sometimes if I am feeling particuarly old.. I'll ask the bouncer politely to make a scene...it goes like this:

    Bouncer: " Sorry love, no ID no entry!"

    Me: " Ah Mister, I'm 26 I swear."

    Bouncer: "Ah now none of your messing, you are only about 20!"

    Me: " I swear I am 26, look here's my licence..!"

    Bouncer: " Hmmm, you are driving 26 years?"

    Me: "eh......"

    Bouncer: " You are probably too young and you'll get me into trouble"
    " Go on in"

    Me: " thanks" (heres your tenner) :D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,987 ✭✭✭ottostreet


    RoverJames wrote: »
    Tou don't honestly think 70% of people in a club / pub are **** do you ?

    God yeah, definitely. While drunk, I have to specify. Most people are alright while sober. Only alright though. Two years retail and ten years DJ'ing have kinda made me lose faith in peoples 'niceness'


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,659 ✭✭✭Chaotic_Forces


    We do need bouncers. I'm a short fella and even if I'm drunk (unless it's a friend getting in a fight with a group and it's a group vs group kickoff or if a girl gets hit or again, if a friend of mine gets hit and gets knocked down/can't defend themselves) then I'll either try to talk or just go to a bouncer.

    The thing of "not tonight lads/20 questions" really only happens if I go somewhere that I'd look out of place. I couldn't get into a "college" bar since I was dressed in trousers, shoes and a t-shirt. Then again in my local I can get in with tack suit bottoms, runners (not white, dark ones) and a t shirt. Never got told a word to me.

    And OP, let's say the guy was being a complete pri*k. Well done for getting angry.
    He'll laugh at you once you sod off. And if you were sober... I would hate to see the following "scuse me sir, you seem to be too drunk, you might want to take it easy or we will have to remove you"
    "I'LL ****ING BARRA YOU YA SHORT ****!"

    OP, if you get refused 9/10 times it's to figure you out. If you take it on the chin and just say "alright, thanks anyway" in a nice manner, they'll more than likely let you in unless ir's a really strong feeling you'll cause something or you aren't the ideal customer they like OR (this happens a few times) they are just pri*ks.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,038 ✭✭✭jackiebaron


    You're not comparing like with like.
    Those people contribute something to society.
    Bouncers don't.


    What service does a police officer (nickname: Pig) contribute to society that a member of entertainment security (nickname: bouncer, monkey-man) does not?
    What is your definition of "contributing" to society? Is it spending your life's worth discovering a cure for an ailment or alleviating suffering or is it the provision of entertainment or is it merely to guard those who might be harmed?
    What does a football referee "contribute" to society or an undertaker or a psychiatrist or a masseur or a tour guide or a babysitter?

    Please do elaborate. Or is it that the concept of bouncers prevent you from acting like a dick and pulling out your cock in nightclubs, hassling women and generally being a neanderthal after a bellyful of ale?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,038 ✭✭✭jackiebaron


    Biggins wrote: »
    Yes, we do need bouncers but professionally trained ones.
    A lot of the ones that I have come across (just locally) are goons in suits.
    That said, good ones DO exist. They are usually the most quiet ones, not the most mouthy ones.

    Ask a non profession bouncer what are the legal rights in relation to the laying of hands upon another person and they wouldn't have a clue.

    Thats when you can tell the difference between a pro and a untrained local possibly just doing a nixer.


    Ask a drunken dickhead what are the boundaries whereby his behaviour becomes an unacceptable threat and most would not have a clue either. Ask a pissed up yob who has staggered up the street kicking cars and been refused entry to a club what the acceptable level of idiocy is. He'll tell you that he's in the right come hell or highwater.
    Ask the same guy when he's as sober as a cat and sees a similar personification of himself and he'll stoutly say "Bar that bastard".

    Bouncers don't stop you in the street and demand your papers. They don't kick down the door of your house and confiscate anything that they deem "threatening". They don't try to tell you where you can and cannot go/assemble/loiter/snog/sleep/drink/camp. They stand at the door of a pub/club where young people go to get mashed and laid. Those who can't get laid start static. Alcohol exacerbates the verbal fireworks.

    When has a bouncer EVER persecuted you?
    You want bouncers who have been trained in Tai-chi, have diplomas in public relations, are members of the Sun Tzu school of conflict resolution, are also versed in the ways of The Okinawan Empty Hand, can hypnotise a charging rhino and can calm a raging crowd of thugs with a gentle song then by all means pay 1000 euros entry into a club that provides such an elite cadre of yeomen.


  • Registered Users Posts: 96 ✭✭Hide behind the post


    Ask a drunken dickhead what are the boundaries whereby his behaviour becomes an unacceptable threat and most would not have a clue either. Ask a pissed up yob who has staggered up the street kicking cars and been refused entry to a club what the acceptable level of idiocy is. He'll tell you that he's in the right come hell or highwater.
    Ask the same guy when he's as sober as a cat and sees a similar personification of himself and he'll stoutly say "Bar that bastard".

    Bouncers don't stop you in the street and demand your papers. They don't kick down the door of your house and confiscate anything that they deem "threatening". They don't try to tell you where you can and cannot go/assemble/loiter/snog/sleep/drink/camp. They stand at the door of a pub/club where young people go to get mashed and laid. Those who can't get laid start static. Alcohol exacerbates the verbal fireworks.

    When has a bouncer EVER persecuted you?
    You want bouncers who have been trained in Tai-chi, have diplomas in public relations, are members of the Sun Tzu school of conflict resolution, are also versed in the ways of The Okinawan Empty Hand, can hypnotise a charging rhino and can calm a raging crowd of thugs with a gentle song then by all means pay 1000 euros entry into a club that provides such an elite cadre of yeomen.

    Well said....idiots in every profession from Accountants to Zoologists, doormen are no different but the majority do a good job and thank god for that! Id hate to see what would happen my hot spots if doormen were not around


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    When has a bouncer EVER persecuted you?
    You want bouncers who have been trained in Tai-chi, have diplomas in public relations, are members of the Sun Tzu school of conflict resolution, are also versed in the ways of The Okinawan Empty Hand, can hypnotise a charging rhino and can calm a raging crowd of thugs with a gentle song then by all means pay 1000 euros entry into a club that provides such an elite cadre of yeomen.
    Actually no bouncer has persecuted me. I won't say why.
    The public don't want all that malarkey you ranted on about above.
    What they do want is a decent trained professional, versed in their abilities of what they can and can't do in regards the law, they want someone that can with the proper mentality rise to aid when finding themselves confronted with a difficult aggressive situation (and that only comes about with most with training again) and stay calm - and behave accordingly.

    Is that too much to ask for? It is possible.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,080 ✭✭✭Gunsfortoys


    foxinsox wrote: »
    I think we need bouncers.

    Sometimes if I am feeling particuarly old.. I'll ask the bouncer politely to make a scene...it goes like this:

    Bouncer: " Sorry love, no ID no entry!"

    Me: " Ah Mister, I'm 26 I swear."

    Bouncer: "Ah now none of your messing, you are only about 20!"

    Me: " I swear I am 26, look here's my licence..!"

    Bouncer: " Hmmm, you are driving 26 years?"

    Me: "eh......"

    Bouncer: " You are probably too young and you'll get me into trouble"
    " Go on in"

    Me: " thanks" (heres your tenner) :D

    ......and then you woke up.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,659 ✭✭✭Chaotic_Forces


    Biggins wrote: »
    Actually no bouncer has persecuted me. I won't say why.
    The public don't want all that malarkey you ranted on about above.
    What they do want is a decent trained professional, versed in their abilities of what they can and can't do in regards the law, they want someone that can with the proper mentality rise to aid when finding themselves confronted with a difficult aggressive situation (and that only comes about with most with training again) and stay calm - and behave accordingly.

    Is that too much to ask for? It is possible.

    That's all well and good but when it's a bar that have knife fights now and again, you want some tough guys that have no problem punching someone's lights out. I don't know about you but if someone came after me with a knife and a bouncer knocks him out, i'm backing him up that he no choice. If i was swinging a knife around, i'd expect a quick end, not a "aw no come on friend, tell the nice bouncer why you got agressive".


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    That's all well and good but when it's a bar that have knife fights now and again, you want some tough guys that have no problem punching someone's lights out. I don't know about you but if someone came after me with a knife and a bouncer knocks him out, i'm backing him up that he no choice. If i was swinging a knife around, i'd expect a quick end, not a "aw no come on friend, tell the nice bouncer why you got aggressive".
    What I would want is a person who can quickly measure up a situation in regard to if aggressive offensive, defensive or pacifist acts are required.
    If its a physical resolution that is required then the professional application of those trained professional techniques should be applied.*

    I would want and would hire a person or team that is capable of using the best effective resolutions integrated with the least amount of aggressive force, inherent with an an ability to know and recognise when one is more proper than the other!

    *Side note: The importance of trained professional techniques cannot be understated or simply dismissed.
    A person with proper training is a person whom is LEAST likely to cause the most disruption, damage and hard to either side of any confrontation, to the public or to the property surrounding the on going incident.

    Weight up such a licensed professional against an unlicensed, untrained amateur who only possesses bulk and your hiring trouble and a giving yourself great risk to continuous litigation from the public and persons owning surrounding property.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,659 ✭✭✭Chaotic_Forces


    Biggins wrote: »
    What I would want is a person who can quickly measure up a situation in regard to if aggressive offensive, defensive or pacifist acts are required.
    If its a physical resolution that is required then the professional application of those trained professional techniques should be applied.*

    I would want and would hire a person or team that is capable of using the best effective resolutions integrated with the least amount of aggressive force, inherent with an an ability to know and recognise when one is more proper than the other!

    *Side note: The importance of trained professional techniques cannot be understated or simply dismissed.
    A person with proper training is a person whom is LEAST likely to cause the most disruption, damage and hard to either side of any confrontation, to the public or to the property surrounding the on going incident.

    Weight up such a licensed professional against an unlicensed, untrained amateur who only possesses bulk and your hiring trouble and a giving yourself great risk to continuous litigation from the public and persons owning surrounding property.

    The local pub/club I go to (it's a pub and a sort of club, has a small dance floor), once I have seen a boncer being agressive. He and 3 other bouncers had to carry, as in one at the shoulders, one at the waist, one at the legs and another at the feet of a really, really aggressive guy. I mean this fella was still screaming his head off saying and i quote "i'll have your names and i'll kill all of yis!". Twice I got "kicked out". Both times I was too drunk. First time I slipped on steps and was escorted out, moment I was outside I asked the bouncers why i was thrown out. The bouncer said "you fell and we didn't want to take a chance on you getting hurt or even trying to get more drunk". So after about ten minutes of talk with the lads they decided to let me in, on condition that i get a glass of water, so i got it and i was fine. On the way out the bouncer tapped me and asked how i was feeling, if i was i okay and so on. I thanked him and was on my way.

    The second time was when i slipped (not fell from being drunk) on some water/beer. I explained, the bouncers were basically "oh yeah, sure mate good luck with that :P". Barmain comes running out trying to explain the situation, I got a "sorry, we thought you were actually really drunk, please go back in and enjoy yourself".

    But there you go, you've got the calm drunken guy (me) and the lunatic wanting to knife someone (turns out the fuc*ker claimed he'd stab a bouncer outside after he was seen smoking "something" (bouncer thought it was hash) and asked about it". So he called in backup.

    As for your "trained thing", mate I don't mean this in a bad way but come on, a bloke knowing how to apply a choke hold in a job where machismo is everywhere towards the bloke that can punch through a wall, i'd take my chance with the guy that punches instead of bein choked out.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    The local pub/club I go...

    As for your "trained thing", mate I don't mean this in a bad way but come on, a bloke knowing how to apply a choke hold in a job where machismo is everywhere towards the bloke that can punch through a wall, i'd take my chance with the guy that punches instead of bein choked out.

    I'm glad everything worked out for you in that cases you mentioned.
    On the opposite side sadly, I can state more terrible cases that have happened by untrained door personnel, in one case that actually involved my brother having an epileptic fit on a dance floor and two mintes later after getting his head banged off a chained fire door (which they though was operable but didn't bother to check earlier or had no the training to know so!), he was flung out the exit door of a disco into a very stony gravel car park while still having a Grand-Mal seizure!
    (The 4 security men involved were fired that night)

    Being "punched out" can go many, many ways. from temporary knock-out to physical damage (minor or serious), to brain damage (with side effects) or even death.
    Me? I'd go with a person who can use trained techniques and his/her surroundings and the objects there - to their best best ability and take the person down in the least aggressive, least risk of long term harm - to all!

    I know of such people and they by far, far are the best in what they do. "Machismo-ism" doesn't even come into the equation.
    Your unlicensed, untrained lashing out goon who hits first and thinks later, is just then one less punch away from hitting perhaps some day someone you know or love and is closer to a possible jail sentence - hopefully one that does not mean their caused the loss of a life!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,659 ✭✭✭Chaotic_Forces


    Biggins wrote: »
    I'm glad everything worked out for you in that cases you mentioned.
    On the opposite side sadly, I can state more terrible cases that have happened by untrained door personnel, in one case that actually involved my brother having an epileptic fit on a dance floor and two mintes later after getting his head banged off a chained fire door (which they though was operable but didn't bother to check earlier or had no the training to know so!), he was flung out the exit door of a disco into a very stony gravel car park while still having a Grand-Mal seizure!

    Being "punched out" can be go many, many ways. from temporary knock-out to physical damage (minor or serious), to brain damage (with side effects) or even death.
    Me? I'd go with a person who can use trained techniques and his/her surroundings and the objects there - to their best best ability and take the person down in the least aggressive, least risk of long term harm.

    I know of such people and they by far, far are the best in what they do. "Machismo-ism" doesn't even come into the equation.
    Your unlicensed, untrained lashing out goon who hits first and thinks later, is just then one less punch away from hitting perhaps some day someone you know or love and is closer to a possible jail sentence - hopefully one that does not mean their caused the loss of a life!

    Edit: GREAT FOR THEM BEING FIRED! :)
    Glad to hear of justice. :)
    I'm sorry about your brother but I think my point was that even though these guys (I mean the ones I know) have sort of back up in some of the regulars, 4 fellas who are like bouncers but just customers, if there's a more... "I'll batter you" sort of guy, they'll be the first to handle it. Infact, one saved me getting beat up by a very agressive guy after i nudged his elbow out of the way... but like we both have different opinions I will say this: by punched out I meant someone that can punch you full force in the face and make you think twice about trying to fight back.
    I mean sure, the guy that gets tossed out (well removed, not literally thrown out) and argues, yeah I want to shown respect if i show the bouncers it.
    If I'm brandishing a knife or trying to goad them into a fight... yeah I deserve a solid punch. I'll be the first to admit if I amd acting like a thug, treat me as one.

    As for what you say about trained people... drunken idiots are agressive so it can be and it is most times, a natural reaction to face fire with fire unfortunatly.

    I do completely understand what you would want and I would want the same if we were in a loving world. But being 22 years old and been going out since I was 18 to some of the eh... "younger" people places, let's just say if you're 18 and lashing back vodkas all night, you don't need a calming down, you need a swift punch and a sore jaw in the morning to remind you not to do it again.

    Of course, the bad does happen; I've seen it in some places like a post above said, the guy got thrown out for restraining an attacker. Those people can never be avoided and do exist, infact i'd say the majority of them are classed as complete bastards (the majority of bouncers). However, sometimes violence calls for violence.

    But let me ask you this: you know how to disable a man with a simple chokehold, the man hits on your girlfriend, you tell him she's with you and he goes away. Whats to stop you from when you're either pissed beyond belief or sober and having a rough night from just saying "fuc*k you" putting him in that "simple" chokehold to disable him and holding on a few seconds too much.
    Don;'t say it won't happen, in the chaotic struggle of a fight, it can and many times, it does happen.

    But like i said, some places cater for that kind of clientale and staff others (like my local) basically have the attitude of "don't fu*k with us, we won't fu*k with you)".


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    ...But let me ask you this: you know how to disable a man with a simple chokehold, the man hits on your girlfriend, you tell him she's with you and he goes away. Whats to stop you from when you're either pissed beyond belief or sober and having a rough night from just saying "fuc*k you" putting him in that "simple" chokehold to disable him and holding on a few seconds too much.
    I won't say it don't happen, sadly I'm sure it does on the more rare occasion - BUT and I can vouch for this - highly trained people who either by natural character or through training, have adopted a positive or have already ingrained, mental "stability" (for want of a better word), have the uttermost respect for their capabilities and to be quite honest, know that any brash action will lead to the loss of more than just their status and reputation, besides employment, imprisonment and possible family damaging effects.

    Long story short, those with enough kop-on, will not allow themselves to get to that state of aggression, nor will they allow themselves to become inebriated to a state that is conducive to the outcome of such a rash act.
    They have more respect for themselves, what they could lose and who also it effects.
    ...staff others (like my local) basically have the attitude of "don't fu*k with us, we won't fu*k with you)".
    ...And thats absolutely fine. As long as that message is very clear to all when they enter a premises, its a good start to a quiet enjoyable night for all. :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,659 ✭✭✭Chaotic_Forces


    Biggins wrote: »
    I won't say it don't happen, sadly I'm sure it does on the more rare occasion - BUT and I can vouch for this - highly trained people who either by natural character or through training, have adopted a positive or have already ingrained, mental "stability" (for want of a better word), have the uttermost respect for their capabilities and to be quite honest, know that any brash action will lead to the loss of more than just their status and reputation, besides employment, imprisonment and possible family damaging effects.

    Long story short, those with enough kop-on, will not allow themselves to get to that state of aggression, nor will they allow themselves to become inebriated to a state that is conducive to the outcome of such a rash act.
    They have more respect for themselves, what they could lose and who also it effects.


    ...And thats absolutely fine. As long as that message is very clear to all when they enter a premises, its a good state to a quiet enjoyable night for all. :)

    Ah but the problem is that I would say at least 1 in 5 bouncers has the power-trip, grr me tough, me kill persona about them. And bouncers are a team. Like I said before, I personally prefer to talk about a fight but if it's my friends' fighting, I won't think twice to back them up (within reason, if it's ten of use and 1 of them, I'm getting a bouncer to stop it quickly). And if one bouncer is quick to kill, even the trained man can't stand by and defuse it with words. So you see, unless it;'s a bunch of guys like that, the ideal bouncer is in a sea of thugs.

    One time I had to call a bouncer because a girl was just too drunk, she was practially sleeping on the floor, he came down, i pointed her out and long story short, he told me to go to the bar and say it's a code X (i forget the numbers/phrase). I did that. while i was trying to get to the bar the guy that was her "friend" (groping her unconcious body) said "ah sure she's grand like ;) you wanna go after me when i'm done, yeah?". I shrugged his arm off me and went to the barmaid, bouncers came down. five minutes later i have to write down what I did/saw. Now here's the funny thing, the guy that stopped me, go fairly cheeky with the bouncer, going so far as to try to shove him away, the bouncer (to his credit) had amazing self-control, he just put his hand on the guys shoulder and said "let me do my job before you get thrown out, i'm here to make sure the customer is okay". The guy is fairly big, could probably pick most people up with one hand. This is the same guy who was part of the four that threw the earlier mentioned guy out.

    Now had he of having to deal with some guy swinging punches left and right, do you really expect him to have the same manner and relaxed attitude?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Part of proper professional training operation, is a continous ongoing assessment of a persons personality, aggressive tendencies and in laymans terms, what you call the possible likelyhood too that such a person might be prone to "power-trips".

    Trust me, in proper training and assessment, these people by far are discovered and advised that that line of work is not suitable for them. Indeed the rare one slips through the process but its by and far not the norm'.

    Again, like something I alluded to earlier, I would rather have a professional near me at times than a team of untrained amateurs who don't know the difference between what is the proper methods to use appropriately and how to apply them.
    ...Now had he of having to deal with some guy swinging punches left and right, do you really expect him to have the same manner and relaxed attitude?
    I would hope if he was professional enough, to be able to see the difference in the situations and relying on previous training if necessary, using a number of known techniques (if required), be able to for a half-second, step back and re-assess a secondary situation and apply then the appropriate response.

    Thats the act of a better person, that what I would call as acting professional.
    Thats the man I'd want watching my back.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,939 ✭✭✭goat2


    bouncers outside or at doors of chippers, nightclubs, bars, restaurants i avoid, because it gives off a bad impression, means it can get rough,


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,659 ✭✭✭Chaotic_Forces


    Biggins wrote: »
    Part of proper professional training operation, is a continous ongoing assessment of a persons personality, aggressive tendencies and in laymans terms, what you call the possible likelyhood too that such a person might be prone to "power-trips".

    Trust me, in proper training and assessment, these people by far are discovered and advised that that line of work is not suitable for them. Indeed the rare one slips through the process but its by and far not the norm'.

    Again, like something I alluded to earlier, I would rather have a professional near me at times than a team of untrained amatures who don't know the difference between what is the proper methods to use appropiately and how to apply them.

    Well I can see your problem, compared to my opinion. I'm looking at this in terms of a club of bouncers and not just A bouncer.

    Frankly, yes a good bouncer that can defuse a situation with words is great.

    As for the training, it's easy to hide your personality. How many people get in abusive relationships because the other person was "nice" for a few months/years? Does that help you?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Well I can see your problem, compared to my opinion. I'm looking at this in terms of a club of bouncers and not just A bouncer.

    Frankly, yes a good bouncer that can defuse a situation with words is great.

    As for the training, it's easy to hide your personality. How many people get in abusive relationships because the other person was "nice" for a few months/years? Does that help you?
    On the first point you raise: be it one bouncer or ten, each should be trained, skilled and certainly professional in his duty and application of it.
    (To quote the old saying "A chain is only as good as its weakest link")

    On the second: As we all know, as far as a security man is concerned (and knows without a shadow of a doubt, if he/she has the kop-on), there is no winning over most times of a deeply effected drunk. There are however methods, prior to actual confrontation becoming heated that can be applied, which can ultimately lead to a better outcome for all.
    A good bouncer can indeed defuse a situation with words most times. A bad one will... well you know!

    On your last point about personality: There are well practised ways of uncovering hidden personalities and recognising signs of those that are trying to apply such evasive methods.
    Ah is best not the place for discussing psychoanalysis as regarding relationships and how one treats another in a relationship basis.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,659 ✭✭✭Chaotic_Forces


    Biggins wrote: »
    On the first point you raise: be it one bouncer or ten, each should be trained, skilled and certainly professional in his duty and application of it.
    (To quote the old saying "A chain is only as good as its weakest link")

    On the second: As we all know, as far as a security man is concerned (and knows without a shadow of a doubt, if he/she has the kop-on), there is no winning over most times of a deeply effected drunk. There are however methods, prior to actual confrontation becoming heated that can be applied, which can ultimately lead to a better outcome for all.
    A good bouncer can indeed defuse a situation with words most times. A bad one will... well you know!

    On your last point about personality: There are well practised ways of uncovering hidden personalities and recognising signs of those that are trying to apply such evasive methods.
    Ah is best not the place for discussing psychoanalysis as regarding relationships and how one treats another in a relationship basis.

    to put it bluntly: flower children don't happen. Not in security at least. I would love to be able to walk into a bar, have a guy get aggressive and then a bouncer defuses it with words nad have the same guy say sorry, we buy each other a shot and walk away happy.
    But ideals and reality are vastly different.
    You seem to argue of what you vision, rather than what we all see with our eyes, am I right in that?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 112 ✭✭google faps


    What service does a police officer (nickname: Pig) contribute to society that a member of entertainment security (nickname: bouncer, monkey-man) does not?
    They contribute peace of mind borne out from the knowledge that they spent a considerable amount of time being trained in how to do their job and the attitude they should present to the public.
    More than the two hours in a dank room learning how to put a wrist lock on someone while trying to sell coke to some chick in an effort to get her to sleep with him.
    What is your definition of "contributing" to society? Is it spending your life's worth discovering a cure for an ailment or alleviating suffering or is it the provision of entertainment or is it merely to guard those who might be harmed?
    Doing something which helps retain the status quo of, or improves, society.
    Certainly not standing on a door refusing someone who is wearing runners from a ****e nightclub.
    What does a football referee "contribute" to society or an undertaker or a psychiatrist or a masseur or a tour guide or a babysitter?
    A football referee promotes fairness and impartiality. Good concepts for a kid to learn.
    An undertaker buries our dead thus preventing corpses from piling up and disease spreading. They also, in hard times, take care of the funeral arrangements when loved ones may not want, or be able, to.
    Psychiatrists help people with grief, depression, anxiety and so on. Pretty self explanatory.
    Babysitters provide peace of mind for parents if and when they need to attend something where the kids would be bored, troublesome or out of place.
    Please do elaborate. Or is it that the concept of bouncers prevent you from acting like a dick and pulling out you cock in nightclubs, hassling women and generally being a neanderthal after a bellyful of ale?
    I did elaborate.
    I don't pull out my cock in nightclubs.
    I don't behave like a neanderthal.
    I don't drink ale.

    KTHXBAI.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,939 ✭✭✭goat2


    Biggins wrote: »
    I'm glad everything worked out for you in that cases you mentioned.
    On the opposite side sadly, I can state more terrible cases that have happened by untrained door personnel, in one case that actually involved my brother having an epileptic fit on a dance floor and two mintes later after getting his head banged off a chained fire door (which they though was operable but didn't bother to check earlier or had no the training to know so!), he was flung out the exit door of a disco into a very stony gravel car park while still having a Grand-Mal seizure!
    (The 4 security men involved were fired that night)

    Being "punched out" can go many, many ways. from temporary knock-out to physical damage (minor or serious), to brain damage (with side effects) or even death.
    Me? I'd go with a person who can use trained techniques and his/her surroundings and the objects there - to their best best ability and take the person down in the least aggressive, least risk of long term harm - to all!

    I know of such people and they by far, far are the best in what they do. "Machismo-ism" doesn't even come into the equation.
    Your unlicensed, untrained lashing out goon who hits first and thinks later, is just then one less punch away from hitting perhaps some day someone you know or love and is closer to a possible jail sentence - hopefully one that does not mean their caused the loss of a life!

    im sorry to hear that, shows these people are not trained at all, could not see that this man was infact seriously ill, no respect at all


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    You seem to argue of what you vision, rather than what we all see with our eyes, am I right in that?
    No, I speak of what I see practised by professionals.
    I certainly don't argue over "visions" - I state with knowledge and experiences where proper methods were and still are used - professionally - by properly trained staff.

    Its sounds unfortunate what you see what your eyes. I have seen it too at times.
    That said, I have also been many a time a better side in practicality and use, proper timing and techniques which eventually lead to much lesser aggressive outcomes. Nine times out of ten, by the use of better assessed (in many areas) and trained professionals.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    goat2 wrote: »
    im sorry to hear that, shows these people are not trained at all, could not see that this man was in fact seriously ill, no respect at all
    There was no training with the security as in regards even to basic first aid.
    As "bouncers" are usually the first responders to acts of aggression and/or accidents on licensed property, its only proper and recognised now that part of proper security training, includes basic first aid.

    (The goons in my brothers case, couldn't even recognise the signs of tongue choking because of an epileptic attack. The first and only thought was "He's drunk - lets chuck him out head first through a fire exit door". They used his head like a battering ram, to try open the first door that was locked)


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