Bouncers-do we really need them?

Yeah, hard to describe them as over paid in these times, maybe a few years back when they were on a few hundred a month more after tax etc. And then he calls bouncers apes, the chap seems an awful knob.

Dravokivich

RoverJames wrote: »

Indeed, fight in club, ring Gardai, they arrive in say 5 to 10 mins (best case scenario), at least one party in the fight should be in bits by then, and the other party may well have fecked off.

I think he meant in regards to the suggestion that they are being over paid :P.

jackiebaron

Funny how this self-righteous, pompous OP transforms his dislike for the questioning of a bouncer into the question as to whether bouncers in general are needed. To use his infantile logic I could conteplate the following scenario:

I came out of my house the other day and the bin-men were collecting the rubbish. As I walked along the footpath I noticed that up ahead the pavement was a scene of garbage apocalypse. Clearly some neighbourhood dogs had gotten into the bins and trashed them. As I got closer this short-arsed, ugly, baldy little troll of a bin-man yelled to me " 'Scuse me, chief, but d'ya mind crossing over to the other path. This one's in rag-order. We're trying to sweep it all up!". I replied to the vermin "Look, you overpaid wretch, I'll walk where I want, damn you! It's my right. You have no authority. And at least I have hair, chrome-dome!".

Bin-men. Do we really need them?

So then I continued on my way. I was visiting a friend in hospital who had sustained a nasty fracture and was laid up for a few days. When I arrived at the hospital I was approached by this ugly, short-arsed, old hag of a nurse who had the audacity to start asking me questions about what my business was in the hospital. I swore venomously at this revolting piece of trash. She mentioned that it was outside of visiting hours. How dare she have confronted me. I have every right to enter that hospital whenever I please. She then went about annoying other patients asking them if they were alright and constantly checking up on them.

Nurses. Do we really need them?

I boarded the bus to return home. I normally take a taxi or have my father's driver drop me wherever I wish to go but today neither were available. I asked the driver the fare and he told me 1.75. I put 2 euro coins into the slot and got my ticket. I asked the ugly, short-arsed, baldy, goblin where my change was. He informed me that the machines don't dispense change. One must provide exact fare or receive a refund slip. I swore viciously at this hideous, little troglodyte and assured him that the reason these machines are in place is because ill-educated, illiterate, inumerate clowns like him don't have the education to do the simplest of arithmetic computations.

Bus drivers. Do we really need them?

Throughout the course of my afternoon I had numerous confrontations with other persons in a variety of occupations. I gave all of them a piece of my mind, swore at them and, for the most part, sneered at and belittled them.

Shopkeepers, waiters, gardai, carpenters, groundskeepers, librarians.

Do we really need them?

helimachoptor

Deacon Fresh Cheek wrote: »

A good doorman with a bit of service in Dublin will know most of the local dippers & junkies who'd get in and literally steal thousands of euro worth of property in minutes.

Or homeless people who'd wander in hasseling people or money, or chugger's shaking buckets in your face etc etc.

I presume a dipper is a handbag/wallet/purse thief?

Had the homeless hassling while in liverpool on a stag, seriously fcuking annoying. Every 5 minutes!

helimachoptor

helimachoptor wrote: »

Had the homeless hassling while in liverpool on a stag, seriously fcuking annoying. Every 5 minutes!

In the lobby of the Adelphi ?

UrbanSea

I think certain bouncers can be some of the soundest lads you're likely to meet. Some may be dicks,but ya,even doctors can be dicks,I've met some.
I was a bit pissed off last week. Was in a well known night club in Galway,and it's known to have a bit of a knacker clientell. There was a good crowd of people going in anyway so I said I'd head.
Bouncers on the door were sound,chatted to one for a minute as I stood inside the door waiting for my friends,all was grand.
We were out the back in the smoking area anyway and the place was absolutely wedged,couldn't get moving. As myself and two of my comrades were walking back up,I was on one side of the smoking area and they were on the other(got separated because of the crowd) a fight kicked off between a fella about an arms length away from me and another who was on my other side. I wasn't drunk so started to get worried. I didn't know any of the lads and they were about to go hell for leather with me and one or two others in the very middle.
Anyway,the fella on my right got held back but the lad on my left was still going for him. I reached out and I held back the other lad,who kept trying to struggle but I was telling him to 'Chill out'. Then I saw the bouncers coming so thought that would be all so I released him.
Next thing I know a bouncer is grabbing me and bringing me down to the back to kick me out. I was pissed off but kept calm and asked him why I was being kicked out and was told 'she wanted you out' (a female bouncer). That was grand,I walked myself out,he knew I wasn't up to anything.
Was pissed off outside but didn't stand banging the back door threatening them like other idiots. 2 other people who had been trying to stop the fight got kicked out but the 2 lads who were attempting to fight didn't.
This isn't a story I'm trying to paint out about me being treated unfairly(bearing in mind I wasn't drunk),but I'm not going to hold it against the bouncers,I mean,when they came,they could see me holding the fella so probably thought I was trying to fight him.
Bouncers aren't going to kick people out or be dicks to them for no reason. If a bouncer is being a prick you probably deserve it and just leave it for that night,and don't hold a grudge against them for the next time,they're only doing their job.

ottostreet

Bouncers are, of course, needed.

A club/pub full of drunken people is divided up like this:

70% wanker
20% unconscious/asleep/barely has a hold on reality
10% lovely


The amount of times I've had to have bouncers intervene on my behalf because of abusive punters "OMG you have to play counting crows, its my BIIIIRRRRTHDAYYYYY" and then get cross because i refuse to because its 2 o clock in a busy nightclub. Anyone who thinks that bouncers aren't needed has never worked sober in the pub/club industry.

ottostreet

ottostreet wrote: »

A club/pub full of drunken people is divided up like this:

70% wanker
20% unconscious/asleep/barely has a hold on reality
10% lovely

Tou don't honestly think 70% of people in a club / pub are **** do you ?

Antomus Prime

NothingMan wrote: »

Only ever been refused twice. Once was Qbar and it was about 1am and me and my mates had a jockey back race to the door, stumbled up to the entrance to a laughing bouncer who just smiled and shook his head and told us "we were well oiled". We couldn't disagree so we jumoed back on each others backs and raced off to Dorans where we got in without a bother :cool:...to an empty bar .

Second time was Krstyle and the "elitist" a$$holes that run the place had the bouncers on a "members only" (Hot sluts and fair city actors) buzz so we were declined. Probably had a better time in Dicey's anyway.

Had one bouncer at Citi bar make stop me as I walked up and asked why I was so nervous. I was fine til you started making me paranoid about how I looked ya arse! He let me in though. Wish he didn't, the pints were muck.

Eh was I a part of this jockey back race? Sounds familiar but i dont recall properly, and as for krystle, I'm glad we got refused that nite, saw a few pics from a friends nite in there and it just looks like another lillies, full of pompus up the own a**e shams.

But getting back to the topic, My theory on it is that some pubs need bouncers, some dont. Depends on the clientel but it's always a good idea to have them. ALL NITECLUBS need them, not only is their job to control what sort of people go inot the premisies, but also to control the VOLUME of people! Could you imagine if there was noone regulationg the number of people in clubs in Dublin cuty center?? F*****G Mayhem!!!!!!

Although alot of them do have attitude problems and are on power trips, you could say the very same thing about every single profession there is,

So to conclude.........................

YES WE DO NEED BOUNCERS!!!!!!

brianthebard

Bet the OP is short....

Riddle101

jackiebaron wrote: »

Funny how this self-righteous, pompous OP transforms his dislike for the questioning of a bouncer into the question as to whether bouncers in general are needed. To use his infantile logic I could conteplate the following scenario:

I came out of my house the other day and the bin-men were collecting the rubbish. As I walked along the footpath I noticed that up ahead the pavement was a scene of garbage apocalypse. Clearly some neighbourhood dogs had gotten into the bins and trashed them. As I got closer this short-arsed, ugly, baldy little troll of a bin-man yelled to me " 'Scuse me, chief, but d'ya mind crossing over to the other path. This one's in rag-order. We're trying to sweep it all up!". I replied to the vermin "Look, you overpaid wretch, I'll walk where I want, damn you! It's my right. You have no authority. And at least I have hair, chrome-dome!".

Bin-men. Do we really need them?

So then I continued on my way. I was visiting a friend in hospital who had sustained a nasty fracture and was laid up for a few days. When I arrived at the hospital I was approached by this ugly, short-arsed, old hag of a nurse who had the audacity to start asking me questions about what my business was in the hospital. I swore venomously at this revolting piece of trash. She mentioned that it was outside of visiting hours. How dare she have confronted me. I have every right to enter that hospital whenever I please. She then went about annoying other patients asking them if they were alright and constantly checking up on them.

Nurses. Do we really need them?

I boarded the bus to return home. I normally take a taxi or have my father's driver drop me wherever I wish to go but today neither were available. I asked the driver the fare and he told me 1.75. I put 2 euro coins into the slot and got my ticket. I asked the ugly, short-arsed, baldy, goblin where my change was. He informed me that the machines don't dispense change. One must provide exact fare or receive a refund slip. I swore viciously at this hideous, little troglodyte and assured him that the reason these machines are in place is because ill-educated, illiterate, inumerate clowns like him don't have the education to do the simplest of arithmetic computations.

Bus drivers. Do we really need them?

Throughout the course of my afternoon I had numerous confrontations with other persons in a variety of occupations. I gave all of them a piece of my mind, swore at them and, for the most part, sneered at and belittled them.

Shopkeepers, waiters, gardai, carpenters, groundskeepers, librarians.

Do we really need them?

Haha, nice one. When I was reading this I was picturing it as if David Mitchell was saying it

google faps

jackiebaron wrote: »

Funny how this self-righteous, pompous OP transforms his dislike for the questioning of a bouncer into the question as to whether bouncers in general are needed. To use his infantile logic I could conteplate the following scenario:

I came out of my house the other day and the bin-men were collecting the rubbish. As I walked along the footpath I noticed that up ahead the pavement was a scene of garbage apocalypse. Clearly some neighbourhood dogs had gotten into the bins and trashed them. As I got closer this short-arsed, ugly, baldy little troll of a bin-man yelled to me " 'Scuse me, chief, but d'ya mind crossing over to the other path. This one's in rag-order. We're trying to sweep it all up!". I replied to the vermin "Look, you overpaid wretch, I'll walk where I want, damn you! It's my right. You have no authority. And at least I have hair, chrome-dome!".

Bin-men. Do we really need them?

So then I continued on my way. I was visiting a friend in hospital who had sustained a nasty fracture and was laid up for a few days. When I arrived at the hospital I was approached by this ugly, short-arsed, old hag of a nurse who had the audacity to start asking me questions about what my business was in the hospital. I swore venomously at this revolting piece of trash. She mentioned that it was outside of visiting hours. How dare she have confronted me. I have every right to enter that hospital whenever I please. She then went about annoying other patients asking them if they were alright and constantly checking up on them.

Nurses. Do we really need them?

I boarded the bus to return home. I normally take a taxi or have my father's driver drop me wherever I wish to go but today neither were available. I asked the driver the fare and he told me 1.75. I put 2 euro coins into the slot and got my ticket. I asked the ugly, short-arsed, baldy, goblin where my change was. He informed me that the machines don't dispense change. One must provide exact fare or receive a refund slip. I swore viciously at this hideous, little troglodyte and assured him that the reason these machines are in place is because ill-educated, illiterate, inumerate clowns like him don't have the education to do the simplest of arithmetic computations.

Bus drivers. Do we really need them?

Throughout the course of my afternoon I had numerous confrontations with other persons in a variety of occupations. I gave all of them a piece of my mind, swore at them and, for the most part, sneered at and belittled them.

Shopkeepers, waiters, gardai, carpenters, groundskeepers, librarians.

Do we really need them?

You're not comparing like with like.
Those people contribute something to society.
Bouncers don't.

Biggins

Yes, we do need bouncers but professionally trained ones.
A lot of the ones that I have come across (just locally) are goons in suits.
That said, good ones DO exist. They are usually the most quiet ones, not the most mouthy ones.

Ask a non profession bouncer what are the legal rights in relation to the laying of hands upon another person and they wouldn't have a clue.

Thats when you can tell the difference between a pro and a untrained local possibly just doing a nixer.

_feedback_

google faps wrote: »

You're not comparing like with like.
Those people contribute something to society.
Bouncers don't.

I think they are comparable. Because they are simply doing their job. Some bouncers of course are idiots, like you find in every profession.

Do you think a (small/bald/thick/ugly) shopkeeper should be allowed refuse someone at the door?

Biggins wrote: »

Thats when you can tell the difference between a pro and a untrained local possibly just doing a nixer.

I may be wrong Biggins, but I'm pretty sure that training is compulsary now?

Biggins

elviscostello wrote: »

I think they are comparable. Because they are simply doing their job. Some bouncers of course are idiots, like you find in every profession.

Do you think a (small/bald/thick/ugly) shopkeeper should be allowed refuse someone at the door?

I may be wrong Biggins, but I'm pretty sure that training is compulsory now?

Yes - and supposed to be licenced, but there is feck all being done to enforce this (and no one as far as I can see, is checking either).

_feedback_

Biggins wrote: »

Yes - and supposed to be licenced, but there is feck all being done to enforce this (and no one as far as I can see, is checking either).

Well, there's a surprise ! :pac:

foxinsox

I think we need bouncers.

Sometimes if I am feeling particuarly old.. I'll ask the bouncer politely to make a scene...it goes like this:

Bouncer: " Sorry love, no ID no entry!"

Me: " Ah Mister, I'm 26 I swear."

Bouncer: "Ah now none of your messing, you are only about 20!"

Me: " I swear I am 26, look here's my licence..!"

Bouncer: " Hmmm, you are driving 26 years?"

Me: "eh......"

Bouncer: " You are probably too young and you'll get me into trouble"
" Go on in"

Me: " thanks" (heres your tenner)

ottostreet

RoverJames wrote: »

Tou don't honestly think 70% of people in a club / pub are **** do you ?

God yeah, definitely. While drunk, I have to specify. Most people are alright while sober. Only alright though. Two years retail and ten years DJ'ing have kinda made me lose faith in peoples 'niceness'

Chaotic_Forces

We do need bouncers. I'm a short fella and even if I'm drunk (unless it's a friend getting in a fight with a group and it's a group vs group kickoff or if a girl gets hit or again, if a friend of mine gets hit and gets knocked down/can't defend themselves) then I'll either try to talk or just go to a bouncer.

The thing of "not tonight lads/20 questions" really only happens if I go somewhere that I'd look out of place. I couldn't get into a "college" bar since I was dressed in trousers, shoes and a t-shirt. Then again in my local I can get in with tack suit bottoms, runners (not white, dark ones) and a t shirt. Never got told a word to me.

And OP, let's say the guy was being a complete pri*k. Well done for getting angry.
He'll laugh at you once you sod off. And if you were sober... I would hate to see the following "scuse me sir, you seem to be too drunk, you might want to take it easy or we will have to remove you"
"I'LL ****ING BARRA YOU YA SHORT ****!"

OP, if you get refused 9/10 times it's to figure you out. If you take it on the chin and just say "alright, thanks anyway" in a nice manner, they'll more than likely let you in unless ir's a really strong feeling you'll cause something or you aren't the ideal customer they like OR (this happens a few times) they are just pri*ks.

jackiebaron

google faps wrote: »

You're not comparing like with like.
Those people contribute something to society.
Bouncers don't.

What service does a police officer (nickname: Pig) contribute to society that a member of entertainment security (nickname: bouncer, monkey-man) does not?
What is your definition of "contributing" to society? Is it spending your life's worth discovering a cure for an ailment or alleviating suffering or is it the provision of entertainment or is it merely to guard those who might be harmed?
What does a football referee "contribute" to society or an undertaker or a psychiatrist or a masseur or a tour guide or a babysitter?

Please do elaborate. Or is it that the concept of bouncers prevent you from acting like a dick and pulling out your cock in nightclubs, hassling women and generally being a neanderthal after a bellyful of ale?

jackiebaron

Biggins wrote: »

Yes, we do need bouncers but professionally trained ones.
A lot of the ones that I have come across (just locally) are goons in suits.
That said, good ones DO exist. They are usually the most quiet ones, not the most mouthy ones.

Ask a non profession bouncer what are the legal rights in relation to the laying of hands upon another person and they wouldn't have a clue.

Thats when you can tell the difference between a pro and a untrained local possibly just doing a nixer.

Ask a drunken dickhead what are the boundaries whereby his behaviour becomes an unacceptable threat and most would not have a clue either. Ask a pissed up yob who has staggered up the street kicking cars and been refused entry to a club what the acceptable level of idiocy is. He'll tell you that he's in the right come hell or highwater.
Ask the same guy when he's as sober as a cat and sees a similar personification of himself and he'll stoutly say "Bar that bastard".

Bouncers don't stop you in the street and demand your papers. They don't kick down the door of your house and confiscate anything that they deem "threatening". They don't try to tell you where you can and cannot go/assemble/loiter/snog/sleep/drink/camp. They stand at the door of a pub/club where young people go to get mashed and laid. Those who can't get laid start static. Alcohol exacerbates the verbal fireworks.

When has a bouncer EVER persecuted you?
You want bouncers who have been trained in Tai-chi, have diplomas in public relations, are members of the Sun Tzu school of conflict resolution, are also versed in the ways of The Okinawan Empty Hand, can hypnotise a charging rhino and can calm a raging crowd of thugs with a gentle song then by all means pay 1000 euros entry into a club that provides such an elite cadre of yeomen.

Hide behind the post

jackiebaron wrote: »

Ask a drunken dickhead what are the boundaries whereby his behaviour becomes an unacceptable threat and most would not have a clue either. Ask a pissed up yob who has staggered up the street kicking cars and been refused entry to a club what the acceptable level of idiocy is. He'll tell you that he's in the right come hell or highwater.
Ask the same guy when he's as sober as a cat and sees a similar personification of himself and he'll stoutly say "Bar that bastard".

Bouncers don't stop you in the street and demand your papers. They don't kick down the door of your house and confiscate anything that they deem "threatening". They don't try to tell you where you can and cannot go/assemble/loiter/snog/sleep/drink/camp. They stand at the door of a pub/club where young people go to get mashed and laid. Those who can't get laid start static. Alcohol exacerbates the verbal fireworks.

When has a bouncer EVER persecuted you?
You want bouncers who have been trained in Tai-chi, have diplomas in public relations, are members of the Sun Tzu school of conflict resolution, are also versed in the ways of The Okinawan Empty Hand, can hypnotise a charging rhino and can calm a raging crowd of thugs with a gentle song then by all means pay 1000 euros entry into a club that provides such an elite cadre of yeomen.

Well said....idiots in every profession from Accountants to Zoologists, doormen are no different but the majority do a good job and thank god for that! Id hate to see what would happen my hot spots if doormen were not around

Biggins

jackiebaron wrote: »

When has a bouncer EVER persecuted you?
You want bouncers who have been trained in Tai-chi, have diplomas in public relations, are members of the Sun Tzu school of conflict resolution, are also versed in the ways of The Okinawan Empty Hand, can hypnotise a charging rhino and can calm a raging crowd of thugs with a gentle song then by all means pay 1000 euros entry into a club that provides such an elite cadre of yeomen.

Actually no bouncer has persecuted me. I won't say why.
The public don't want all that malarkey you ranted on about above.
What they do want is a decent trained professional, versed in their abilities of what they can and can't do in regards the law, they want someone that can with the proper mentality rise to aid when finding themselves confronted with a difficult aggressive situation (and that only comes about with most with training again) and stay calm - and behave accordingly.

Is that too much to ask for? It is possible.

Gunsfortoys

foxinsox wrote: »

I think we need bouncers.

Sometimes if I am feeling particuarly old.. I'll ask the bouncer politely to make a scene...it goes like this:

Bouncer: " Sorry love, no ID no entry!"

Me: " Ah Mister, I'm 26 I swear."

Bouncer: "Ah now none of your messing, you are only about 20!"

Me: " I swear I am 26, look here's my licence..!"

Bouncer: " Hmmm, you are driving 26 years?"

Me: "eh......"

Bouncer: " You are probably too young and you'll get me into trouble"
" Go on in"

Me: " thanks" (heres your tenner)

......and then you woke up.

Chaotic_Forces

Biggins wrote: »

Actually no bouncer has persecuted me. I won't say why.
The public don't want all that malarkey you ranted on about above.
What they do want is a decent trained professional, versed in their abilities of what they can and can't do in regards the law, they want someone that can with the proper mentality rise to aid when finding themselves confronted with a difficult aggressive situation (and that only comes about with most with training again) and stay calm - and behave accordingly.

Is that too much to ask for? It is possible.

That's all well and good but when it's a bar that have knife fights now and again, you want some tough guys that have no problem punching someone's lights out. I don't know about you but if someone came after me with a knife and a bouncer knocks him out, i'm backing him up that he no choice. If i was swinging a knife around, i'd expect a quick end, not a "aw no come on friend, tell the nice bouncer why you got agressive".

Biggins

Chaotic_Forces wrote: »

That's all well and good but when it's a bar that have knife fights now and again, you want some tough guys that have no problem punching someone's lights out. I don't know about you but if someone came after me with a knife and a bouncer knocks him out, i'm backing him up that he no choice. If i was swinging a knife around, i'd expect a quick end, not a "aw no come on friend, tell the nice bouncer why you got aggressive".

What I would want is a person who can quickly measure up a situation in regard to if aggressive offensive, defensive or pacifist acts are required.
If its a physical resolution that is required then the professional application of those trained professional techniques should be applied.*

I would want and would hire a person or team that is capable of using the best effective resolutions integrated with the least amount of aggressive force, inherent with an an ability to know and recognise when one is more proper than the other!

*Side note: The importance of trained professional techniques cannot be understated or simply dismissed.
A person with proper training is a person whom is LEAST likely to cause the most disruption, damage and hard to either side of any confrontation, to the public or to the property surrounding the on going incident.

Weight up such a licensed professional against an unlicensed, untrained amateur who only possesses bulk and your hiring trouble and a giving yourself great risk to continuous litigation from the public and persons owning surrounding property.

Chaotic_Forces

Biggins wrote: »

What I would want is a person who can quickly measure up a situation in regard to if aggressive offensive, defensive or pacifist acts are required.
If its a physical resolution that is required then the professional application of those trained professional techniques should be applied.*

I would want and would hire a person or team that is capable of using the best effective resolutions integrated with the least amount of aggressive force, inherent with an an ability to know and recognise when one is more proper than the other!

*Side note: The importance of trained professional techniques cannot be understated or simply dismissed.
A person with proper training is a person whom is LEAST likely to cause the most disruption, damage and hard to either side of any confrontation, to the public or to the property surrounding the on going incident.

Weight up such a licensed professional against an unlicensed, untrained amateur who only possesses bulk and your hiring trouble and a giving yourself great risk to continuous litigation from the public and persons owning surrounding property.

The local pub/club I go to (it's a pub and a sort of club, has a small dance floor), once I have seen a boncer being agressive. He and 3 other bouncers had to carry, as in one at the shoulders, one at the waist, one at the legs and another at the feet of a really, really aggressive guy. I mean this fella was still screaming his head off saying and i quote "i'll have your names and i'll kill all of yis!". Twice I got "kicked out". Both times I was too drunk. First time I slipped on steps and was escorted out, moment I was outside I asked the bouncers why i was thrown out. The bouncer said "you fell and we didn't want to take a chance on you getting hurt or even trying to get more drunk". So after about ten minutes of talk with the lads they decided to let me in, on condition that i get a glass of water, so i got it and i was fine. On the way out the bouncer tapped me and asked how i was feeling, if i was i okay and so on. I thanked him and was on my way.

The second time was when i slipped (not fell from being drunk) on some water/beer. I explained, the bouncers were basically "oh yeah, sure mate good luck with that :P". Barmain comes running out trying to explain the situation, I got a "sorry, we thought you were actually really drunk, please go back in and enjoy yourself".

But there you go, you've got the calm drunken guy (me) and the lunatic wanting to knife someone (turns out the fuc*ker claimed he'd stab a bouncer outside after he was seen smoking "something" (bouncer thought it was hash) and asked about it". So he called in backup.

As for your "trained thing", mate I don't mean this in a bad way but come on, a bloke knowing how to apply a choke hold in a job where machismo is everywhere towards the bloke that can punch through a wall, i'd take my chance with the guy that punches instead of bein choked out.

Biggins

Chaotic_Forces wrote: »

The local pub/club I go...

As for your "trained thing", mate I don't mean this in a bad way but come on, a bloke knowing how to apply a choke hold in a job where machismo is everywhere towards the bloke that can punch through a wall, i'd take my chance with the guy that punches instead of bein choked out.

I'm glad everything worked out for you in that cases you mentioned.
On the opposite side sadly, I can state more terrible cases that have happened by untrained door personnel, in one case that actually involved my brother having an epileptic fit on a dance floor and two mintes later after getting his head banged off a chained fire door (which they though was operable but didn't bother to check earlier or had no the training to know so!), he was flung out the exit door of a disco into a very stony gravel car park while still having a Grand-Mal seizure!
(The 4 security men involved were fired that night)

Being "punched out" can go many, many ways. from temporary knock-out to physical damage (minor or serious), to brain damage (with side effects) or even death.
Me? I'd go with a person who can use trained techniques and his/her surroundings and the objects there - to their best best ability and take the person down in the least aggressive, least risk of long term harm - to all!

I know of such people and they by far, far are the best in what they do. "Machismo-ism" doesn't even come into the equation.
Your unlicensed, untrained lashing out goon who hits first and thinks later, is just then one less punch away from hitting perhaps some day someone you know or love and is closer to a possible jail sentence - hopefully one that does not mean their caused the loss of a life!

Chaotic_Forces

Biggins wrote: »

I'm glad everything worked out for you in that cases you mentioned.
On the opposite side sadly, I can state more terrible cases that have happened by untrained door personnel, in one case that actually involved my brother having an epileptic fit on a dance floor and two mintes later after getting his head banged off a chained fire door (which they though was operable but didn't bother to check earlier or had no the training to know so!), he was flung out the exit door of a disco into a very stony gravel car park while still having a Grand-Mal seizure!

Being "punched out" can be go many, many ways. from temporary knock-out to physical damage (minor or serious), to brain damage (with side effects) or even death.
Me? I'd go with a person who can use trained techniques and his/her surroundings and the objects there - to their best best ability and take the person down in the least aggressive, least risk of long term harm.

I know of such people and they by far, far are the best in what they do. "Machismo-ism" doesn't even come into the equation.
Your unlicensed, untrained lashing out goon who hits first and thinks later, is just then one less punch away from hitting perhaps some day someone you know or love and is closer to a possible jail sentence - hopefully one that does not mean their caused the loss of a life!

Edit: GREAT FOR THEM BEING FIRED!
Glad to hear of justice.
I'm sorry about your brother but I think my point was that even though these guys (I mean the ones I know) have sort of back up in some of the regulars, 4 fellas who are like bouncers but just customers, if there's a more... "I'll batter you" sort of guy, they'll be the first to handle it. Infact, one saved me getting beat up by a very agressive guy after i nudged his elbow out of the way... but like we both have different opinions I will say this: by punched out I meant someone that can punch you full force in the face and make you think twice about trying to fight back.
I mean sure, the guy that gets tossed out (well removed, not literally thrown out) and argues, yeah I want to shown respect if i show the bouncers it.
If I'm brandishing a knife or trying to goad them into a fight... yeah I deserve a solid punch. I'll be the first to admit if I amd acting like a thug, treat me as one.

As for what you say about trained people... drunken idiots are agressive so it can be and it is most times, a natural reaction to face fire with fire unfortunatly.

I do completely understand what you would want and I would want the same if we were in a loving world. But being 22 years old and been going out since I was 18 to some of the eh... "younger" people places, let's just say if you're 18 and lashing back vodkas all night, you don't need a calming down, you need a swift punch and a sore jaw in the morning to remind you not to do it again.

Of course, the bad does happen; I've seen it in some places like a post above said, the guy got thrown out for restraining an attacker. Those people can never be avoided and do exist, infact i'd say the majority of them are classed as complete bastards (the majority of bouncers). However, sometimes violence calls for violence.

But let me ask you this: you know how to disable a man with a simple chokehold, the man hits on your girlfriend, you tell him she's with you and he goes away. Whats to stop you from when you're either pissed beyond belief or sober and having a rough night from just saying "fuc*k you" putting him in that "simple" chokehold to disable him and holding on a few seconds too much.
Don;'t say it won't happen, in the chaotic struggle of a fight, it can and many times, it does happen.

But like i said, some places cater for that kind of clientale and staff others (like my local) basically have the attitude of "don't fu*k with us, we won't fu*k with you)".

Biggins

Chaotic_Forces wrote: »

...But let me ask you this: you know how to disable a man with a simple chokehold, the man hits on your girlfriend, you tell him she's with you and he goes away. Whats to stop you from when you're either pissed beyond belief or sober and having a rough night from just saying "fuc*k you" putting him in that "simple" chokehold to disable him and holding on a few seconds too much.

I won't say it don't happen, sadly I'm sure it does on the more rare occasion - BUT and I can vouch for this - highly trained people who either by natural character or through training, have adopted a positive or have already ingrained, mental "stability" (for want of a better word), have the uttermost respect for their capabilities and to be quite honest, know that any brash action will lead to the loss of more than just their status and reputation, besides employment, imprisonment and possible family damaging effects.

Long story short, those with enough kop-on, will not allow themselves to get to that state of aggression, nor will they allow themselves to become inebriated to a state that is conducive to the outcome of such a rash act.
They have more respect for themselves, what they could lose and who also it effects.

Chaotic_Forces wrote: »

...staff others (like my local) basically have the attitude of "don't fu*k with us, we won't fu*k with you)".

...And thats absolutely fine. As long as that message is very clear to all when they enter a premises, its a good start to a quiet enjoyable night for all.