Dublin Bus route 145 :(

foggy_lad · 26-09-2010 12:43PM

SickCert wrote: »

I have to say the running time with boosted numbers isnt allowing it to work. Example we have 40mins going special to Kilmac from Donnybrook, then 45 working back in to hand over compared to the 60 mins previous. I was delayed yesterday by three girls going to the Stillorgan park hotel, fresh from the train and not a clue about the services or €20 euro notes in cash fare boxes.

you just tell them it is exact fare only and you dont take notes then put them off the bus and continue your journey, simples. bus drivers are not there to hold passengers hands they are doing a very important job in the general scheme and should not be delayed by people that aree half asleep or who have not informed themselves of what they will need going out in the big bad world.

foggy_lad · 26-09-2010 12:48PM

AlekSmart wrote: »

OK,it really does need to be said in some manner that most posters will understand:

THERE IS NO INDUSTRIAL ACTION INVOLVED IN THE CURRENT PHASE 1 NETWORK DIRECT SITUATION.

That is about as clear as I can make it.

If Foggy_Lad has an opinion to the contrary,he is fully entitled to hold it,but he could also be expected to accept some opinion from those on-the-ground,both passengers and staff.

If he does`nt,then fair enough,but I can`t state it clearer.

Mind you,if this was the result of industrial action,it would be a hugely successful application of it as I have never before seen such a comprehensive collapse of a pre-existing functional service.

As for Goggy_Lad`s insinuation that I was blaming the passengers,nothing could be further from the truth.

I am outlining FACT.

The FACT is that any major interchange which sees large groups of unfamiliar or unprepared passengers arriving together requires a fundementally different operational approach than a day to day ordinary location on a Bus route.

Foggy_Lad has in fact quite correctly identified the main causitive element in this fiasco,a decision taken at the highest levels to implement a major public bus service alteration in advance of the preparitory infrastructure being put in place.

That is most definitely an anomaly,but it did not prevent management from pressing ahead despite all too obvious indications of the eventual outcome.

I would be somewhat sceptical of Foggy_Lads intimate knowledge of what DB management would or would not do as a great many involved remain mystified as to the same issue.

there is NO official industrial action but what i am referring to is a general lack of co-operation from drivers who do not agree with the management or who want it their own way or might even be as simple as a driver being told by a manager to get out and drive his route or face disciplinary action,

it is clear that drivers from day one did not want this change and the elimination of their much loved 92 route and in my opinion they are not helping to make this new 145 route a success

mickydoomsux · 26-09-2010 01:27PM

foggy_lad wrote: »

you just tell them it is exact fare only and you dont take notes then put them off the bus and continue your journey, simples. bus drivers are not there to hold passengers hands they are doing a very important job in the general scheme and should not be delayed by people that aree half asleep or who have not informed themselves of what they will need going out in the big bad world.

Heh. If they did that then you'd be the first person on here posting about how unreasonable and ignorant that they are.

foggy_lad · 26-09-2010 01:36PM

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Heh. If they did that then you'd be the first person on here posting about how unreasonable and ignorant that they are.

no i would not!

i would encourage less hand holding by dublin bus staff in particular.

passengers should know it is exact fare only and tourists need to remember that along with saints and scholars there are rules and exact fares much like most of them have at home! if they want directions to drogheeeda or wherever they should go to the tourist office instead of delaying a bus driver!

loyatemu · 26-09-2010 02:20PM

why not have Heuston as a "no cash fares" stop and have someone at the station selling tickets (from the Nitelink ticket bus) - its a sufficiently busy location to warrant special treatment.

trellheim · 26-09-2010 02:41PM

is the 92 gone now ?

If you google dublin bus route 145 as 99% of people would, you get

145. Buses from/to. Mountjoy Square / Parnell Square West to Kilmacanogue ... Route Variations v Via Bray DART Station p From Parnell Square ...

the webmaster is asleep at the wheel again 5 days since route change and he can't be arsed to leave a redirect, since if you click on the link you get a browser error , very nearly a disciplinary offence if you do it once in my job, definitely an interview without coffee if you do it twice.

So without telling anyone we now have a hi frequency service leaving Heuston. ( this board here remains a fabulous place for info but that's all )

Heuston is automatically a place where people arrive who are unfamiliar with DB's idiosyncracies and so yes they will proffer €50 and get a nasty shock when no change is arriving.

Cool Mo D · 26-09-2010 02:46PM

loyatemu wrote: »

why not have Heuston as a "no cash fares" stop and have someone at the station selling tickets (from the Nitelink ticket bus) - its a sufficiently busy location to warrant special treatment.

Do as they do at the airport and have a machine selling 1-journey 90 minute tickets, and day tickets, and proper information at the bus stop.

Running the 92 and the 145 separately may be handy for Dublin bus, but being able to go direct from Heuston out further than the city centre is much better than the 92 for passengers.

KD345 · 26-09-2010 05:43PM

Foggy Lad, I'm not quite sure where your claim of drivers being difficult is coming from. If a bus driver is identifying problems along their route then they are more than entitled to point them out. Unless you can provide specific incidents of drivers being uncooperative then I feel your comments are out of line considering there are bus drivers posting here. The reports from Alek and Sickcert would suggest they are doing all they can to make the transition from the 92 to 145 as smooth as possible by helping customers with queries. In a few posts you have gone from criticizing drivers from not being cooperative to criticizing them for helping customers too much. It reads like you have a problem with bus drivers in general. Perhaps you have reasons for this, but if you're complaining just for the sake of it then it's unhelpful.

This week hasn't gone as smoothly as we all would have liked but its still early days and hopefully the problems will get sorted. The 145 to Heuston has great potential and opens up the network greatly. I know of some old 145 passengers who are quite happy with the extension.

We will soon have the 25/a 26, 66/a/b and 67 also traveling from Leeson Street serving Parkgate Street which will take some pressure off the 145, and there is rumors of the 7 terminating at Heuston and the 79 merging with the 27B all of which will make Heuston more accessible.

AlekSmart · 26-09-2010 06:34PM

KD345 posted....

The 145 to Heuston has great potential and opens up the network greatly. I know of some old 145 passengers who are quite happy with the extension.

Absolutely a big +100% to that.

The rerouting is not at issue at all.

I believe it`s a fantastic element and long overdue,if only to remove a route from the wildly over bussed O Connell St.

However,I was speechless today at the amount of cranky spite-laden complaints I recieved when turning left onto Aston Quay....In spite of a big electronic "Heuston Station via City Centre" on the front and a PA announcement on Westmoreland St I still got a verbal handbagging from all and sundry who wanted to get out at Pennys...:rolleyes:

It`s worth also pointing out,in the light of Foggy_Lads strongly held belief that we Drivers are somehow pursuing a secret campaign of disobidiance,that the "new" element of the 145 route still remains notably bereft of signage to notify intending passengers and staff of which stops are actually served by the route.

This morning (Sun 26th,T+ 1 Week) we were advised via Central Control that Westmoreland Street was no longer a stop and instead the 145 now uses the 1st Stop on Aston Quay (Which does have signage).

After that the only indicator of specific stops is from the Ticket Machine display which shows 2 stage points at Capel St Bridge (76) and Mellows Bridge (77) before the terminus at Heuston (78).

The general suspicion is that the 145 is expected to utilize the route 90 stops along the quays,however since these are not particularly well marked it can prove a very distacting process indeed.

It`s also worth pointing out 145 pasengers can now purchase a surban Arrow rail onward ticket as for jouneys as far as Hazelhatch from the Busdriver...now that is progress !

Heuston Station itself is,well....largely bereft of appropriate Bus Route indicators on the Bus Stops themselves,which is leaving a lot of people in a confused state...one lad today,told me he had let 3 145`s go before he noticed the Via City Centre on the destination....:rolleyes:

The return journey along the North Quays is equally fraught with Bus Stop moments and the need to position early into the right hand lane on Batchelors Walk can be fraught.

A rather basic prioritized Bus Lane signal similar to that at The Burlington Hotel and Stillorgan Park would be of great assistance in this scenario (Any QBN folks lurking here??

)

Whilst Foggy_Lad suspects all manner of Gunpowder Plot material between route 92 and 145 drivers,the reality is that operating as they do from totally seperate garages,most would not even know each other to see let alone conspire with

I would fervently hope that the Network Direct Team have taken time-out this weekend to review the events of last week,hopefully they will return to the fray tomorrow with a rather more finely tuned set of "First Principles" to be firmly in place before commencement of any future phases.

Fingers X`d for tomorrow then ??

devnull · 26-09-2010 06:47PM

To say that this is part of a work to rule is ridiculous - having been out on the streets it is clearly not the case.

As for the proposals to terminate the 7 at Heuston, then I really don't think this is feasible following the cuts to route 4, as that will take the O'Connell Street stop out, and would make the huge number of passengers who get on at this stop, to go to an already ridiculously overcrowded route 4 as in my experience the majority of those who get the 7 at this stop travel to the area shared by both routes.

SickCert · 26-09-2010 08:48PM

foggy_lad wrote: »

you just tell them it is exact fare only and you dont take notes then put them off the bus and continue your journey, simples. bus drivers are not there to hold passengers hands they are doing a very important job in the general scheme and should not be delayed by people that aree half asleep or who have not informed themselves of what they will need going out in the big bad world.

Sure it will take them 2 mins to search their bags/pockets for 2.20 in coinage.

We are not in a position to put anyone off a bus.

On courses we call them valued customers these days!

Have a look at Carlisle in 1982 a little yellow advert. This type of advert/sticker saves so much time.

foggy_lad · 26-09-2010 09:01PM

loyatemu wrote: »

why not have Heuston as a "no cash fares" stop and have someone at the station selling tickets (from the Nitelink ticket bus) - its a sufficiently busy location to warrant special treatment.

a few ticket machines inside the station with proper notices of stops and the routes for tourists etc would be great.

KD345 wrote: »

Foggy Lad, I'm not quite sure where your claim of drivers being difficult is coming from. If a bus driver is identifying problems along their route then they are more than entitled to point them out. Unless you can provide specific incidents of drivers being uncooperative then I feel your comments are out of line considering there are bus drivers posting here. The reports from Alek and Sickcert would suggest they are doing all they can to make the transition from the 92 to 145 as smooth as possible by helping customers with queries. In a few posts you have gone from criticizing drivers from not being cooperative to criticizing them for helping customers too much. It reads like you have a problem with bus drivers in general. Perhaps you have reasons for this, but if you're complaining just for the sake of it then it's unhelpful.

i was getting the impression from some of the language being used in some of the posts here such as

It is not working...it cannot work as currently structured,but admitting that is not an option for senior people who are highly politically sensitive.

it is only a week into it and drivers have already decided it is dead in the water.

SickCert wrote: »

Sure it will take them 2 mins to search their bags/pockets for 2.20 in coinage.

We are not in a position to put anyone off a bus.

On courses we call them valued customers these days!

Have a look at Carlisle in 1982 a little yellow advert. This type of advert/sticker saves so much time.

you as driver tell them to leave your bus and get the next one which they should only board if they have the exact change in their hand.

KD345 · 26-09-2010 09:27PM

foggy_lad wrote: »

a few ticket machines inside the station with proper notices of stops and the routes for tourists etc would be great.

i was getting the impression from some of the language being used in some of the posts here such as it is only a week into it and drivers have already decided it is dead in the water.

you as driver tell them to leave your bus and get the next one which they should only board if they have the exact change in their hand.

Getting an impression is very different from making claims that drivers were not doing their job, blaming passengers, and not contributing to the smooth running of services.

You quoted one line of a post made by Alek. His post was very clear as to what he felt the problems and solutions were. You as good as accused him of sabotage and blaming passengers and now, despite his clarification, you continue to pick parts of his post to suit your argument. He has stated it is not working as "currently structured". I would agree to an extent, as the last week has had no passenger information in Heuston, no timetables on stops and no on board information on buses. There also appears to an issue with running time which will hopefully be looked at.

If you have a specific example of a problem by all means report it here and to Dublin Bus, but accusing people posting here of not doing their job, when it is clear they are, is just wrong.

Creamy Goodness · 26-09-2010 09:36PM

whilst not really related (along the same route really) the 84x is really suffering these days, used to be able to get it at 8:10 on the southern cross in bray and be at my desk at 9am.

nowadays i have to get the 7:30 to get in for the same time. seems a lot of time is spent by the driver explaining at every stop that s/he can only take x amount of people.

foggy_lad · 26-09-2010 09:44PM

SickCert wrote: »

I have to say the running time with boosted numbers isnt allowing it to work. Example we have 40mins going special to Kilmac from Donnybrook, then 45 working back in to hand over compared to the 60 mins previous. I was delayed yesterday by three girls going to the Stillorgan park hotel, fresh from the train and not a clue about the services or €20 euro notes in cash fare boxes.

AlekSmart wrote: »

Indeed Antoin,but most certainly not their Drivers..:)

Today`s situation on the 145 is still ongoing,but up until 20.30 drivers were still finishing their duties 20 minutes late.

This,on the 145 is unusual,but on a Saturday,is perhaps indicative of something being not quite right..?

Nobody in authority saw fit to actually take a close look at what the New ! Improved !! 145 was being asked to do.

Their is a world of difference between operating on a high frequency trunk route,with most of it`s customers regular users and possessing of passes or ready sorted cash and then operating the same route from Heuston Station where huge numbers of totally unfamiliar provincials who will happily wave €50 Notes and a host of totally invalid Rail-Only tickets with many having absolutely no idea of where they are going except a belief that the driver is there to offer a Free Consultation and Counselling service....He/She may well be all of those...but only at the expense of whatever tenuous grip the Timetable had over the route.

It is not working...it cannot work as currently structured,but admitting that is not an option for senior people who are highly politically sensitive.

The most important short-term fix IMO,is to accept that the Heuston Station-City Centre element is somewhat deserving of a stand-alone service a la the 92(:rolleyes:) which might just allow for some realistic treatment of the rest of the 145 route...Failure to appreciate this distinction runs a very high risk of alienating and losing regular patrons of the 145...but then again,perhaps in the new post Deloitte era,they are expendable ?

it is a bit more than an impression really isn't it?

KD345 · 26-09-2010 09:58PM

foggy_lad wrote: »

it is a bit more than an impression really isn't it?

What part of that suggest the driver is not doing their job or trying to sabotage the service?

The quoted piece above tells me there is a serious communications problem at Heuston Station and even more so at Dublin Bus. Look at the amount of passenger information available at Dublin Airport. Passengers are told everything from how much a bus journey costs, to leaflets about using the bus and clear route maps and shelters. For some reason Dublin Bus doesnt have a similar approach a Heuston Station.

You can't blame tourists for not knowing how to use a local bus service and similarly you can't blame bus drivers for assisting passengers when required.

I'll be honest, I'm the first peson to complain about a bus driver who is in the wrong, but in this case, on this thread, I can see no evidence of bus drivers sabotaging the new 145 service as you're claiming. You've backed up your claims with faults that lie far beyond the bus driver. Yes, Dublin Bus have bad customer service, but complaining because a bus driver helped a tourist or spoke openly about their concerns of meeting their timetable is crazy.

lainey316 · 26-09-2010 10:07PM

Ugh. Got into Heuston at 7.10. expecting a 91 - is this also gone? Eventually a 145 showed up, insufficient luggage space, ended up absolutely packed. Half the passengers got off at D'olier St where there was a large number of customers waiting - with one door, the disembarkation/embarkation procedure took quite a while.
Running a bus to timetable after the high volume trains come in Sunday night leads only to frustration and overcrowding - the 91 is great as it matches the trains.

Not loving it. Can anyone confirm if the 91 is gone?

KD345 · 26-09-2010 10:21PM

Hi Lainy, according to Dublin Bus, the 91 is still operating but its not timetabled and just meets train arrivals.

The 145 has replaced the old 92 service, although this didn't run on Sundays.

lainey316 · 26-09-2010 10:27PM

thanks kd - will stick with the train I know has a 91 in future in that case (gets in at 815)

AlekSmart · 27-09-2010 12:24AM

Not loving it. Can anyone confirm if the 91 is gone?

A major part of the problems raised in this thread is just that....we can`t confirm that the 91 still exists coz we don`t know....for all we know a skip load of Horse-Drawn 86`s may well be lined up outside Heuston tomorrow morning to meet the mail-train.

Eventually a 145 showed up, insufficient luggage space, ended up absolutely packed. Half the passengers got off at D'olier St where there was a large number of customers waiting - with one door, the disembarkation/embarkation procedure took quite a while.

Gosh,now there`s a thing....:(.....but never fear,if we put a even larger bus (with a smaller,slower operating door) on the route then all will be well.......won`t it ?

Meanwhile,we have a few large capacity double door vehicles, ex-Airlink,which are kinda sorta,well surplus`ish at the moment and a few "life Expired" but highly suitable Articulated Buses which,with a bit of inventive modification, could work very well at clearing Train Loads of folks at times like Sunday evenings......

Question is,can we bring ourselves to allocate specialized resources to a specialized task...at a guess I would say no...but events may force a rethink ?

Foggy_Lad posted....

It is only a week into it and drivers have already decided it is dead in the water.

A week is a long time in (Public Transport) politics,Foggy_Lad....that reality,was blindingly apparent to Drivers,Inspectors and most obviously, passengers after 1 day.

Part of the failure is why the thing was allowed to limp along for a full week in this manner...remember the ABC`s are still not fully in place,with Bus Stop and Termini Information a work-in-progress.

It is beyond doubt that the Heuston Station gig needs to be radically overhauled,with the emphasis on markedly decreasing Dwell-Time.

145`s need to be allowed to adhere to their scheduled departure times as far as possible,with the practice of the Stance Inspector holding buses beyond the Timetabled departure ended immediately (NB: We were recently advised that adhering to published Scheduled departure time was a real Biggie for the NTA,but now it seems they were only kidding ?)

Creamy Goodness posted.....

the 84x is really suffering these days, used to be able to get it at 8:10 on the southern cross in bray and be at my desk at 9am.

Nowadays i have to get the 7:30 to get in for the same time. seems a lot of time is spent by the driver explaining at every stop that s/he can only take x amount of people.

This is exactly what we don`t need to hear right now and is evidence of just how far reaching this weeks damage has been.

I have always regarded the 84X and Expresso services generally as one of the Positives in our operation,and an element deserving of further improvement.

This posters experience is something that really needs attention asap,before those passenger numbers start falling away....although some posters may feel the issue is bogus and easily solved by dismissing that explanatory Busdriver :rolleyes:

foggy_lad · 27-09-2010 08:21AM

Again it comes down to dwell times which can be reduced greatly by drivers not pandering to passengers that ask stupid question or look for directions to kilkenny castle from a Dublin bus driver. If drivers get tough on timewasters ties should see immediate improvements!

spareman · 27-09-2010 08:38AM

foggy_lad wrote: »

Again it comes down to dwell times which can be reduced greatly by drivers not pandering to passengers that ask stupid question or look for directions to kilkenny castle from a Dublin bus driver. If drivers get tough on timewasters ties should see immediate improvements!

And next week you will be on here insisting the Ignorant bus driver who ignored someone when they asked a question should be sacked imediately.

Seriously Foggy, It don't matter what we do, The driver is always at fault through your rose tinted glasses.

I think Sickcert has already made it quite clear why the 145 is not working, 40 mins to drive a empty bus to Kilmac from Donnybrook, 45 mins to drive it back in service.

Cookie_Monster · 27-09-2010 08:40AM

foggy_lad wrote: »

Again it comes down to dwell times which can be reduced greatly by drivers not pandering to passengers that ask stupid question or look for directions to kilkenny castle from a Dublin bus driver. If drivers get tough on timewasters ties should see immediate improvements!

thats a no win situation for drivers though. if you do try and help then it slows everyone down and annoys passengers. If you refuse you're "that bastard driver on the XX this morning" and may even get complaints in. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

SickCert · 27-09-2010 09:55AM

foggy_lad wrote: »

Again it comes down to dwell times which can be reduced greatly by drivers not pandering to passengers that ask stupid question or look for directions to kilkenny castle from a Dublin bus driver. If drivers get tough on timewasters ties should see immediate improvements!

How do you want us to get tough?
If were ignorant or nasty it will be the next discussion like the 'Nasty driver rant'.

trellheim · 27-09-2010 10:29AM

Well; where is some decent notification of the changes ? I've already told you guys about the website

AlekSmart · 27-09-2010 11:18AM

Well; where is some decent notification of the changes ? I've already told you guys about the website

Sorry Trellheim,but when it comes to the Website or any element other then driving the bus,I`m as lost as yerself....:o

foggy_lad · 27-09-2010 11:55AM

AlekSmart wrote: »

Sorry Trellheim,but when it comes to the Website or any element other then driving the bus,I`m as lost as yerself....:o

And the website is so slow the bus will be long gone before you get the information online.

Two words are all that are needed for most enquiring tourists etc tourist office or for others try heuston station or even information desk as you point to the station!

foggy_lad · 27-09-2010 12:00PM

I did not realise there was only a 5 minute difference in the times between running empty or stopping for passengers! In this case stop working the route until those that made up the times actually travel with a few busses both off peak and at peak times and they will have to give realistic times then!

Or they will see how time is being lost unnecessarily

AlekSmart · 27-09-2010 01:11PM

In this case stop working the route until those that made up the times actually travel with a few busses both off peak and at peak times and they will have to give realistic times then!

But,Foggy_Lad,my dear fellow..that would be embarking upon unofficial industrial action,and you probably know the consequences of that.

The mere fact that you,as a Public Transport user,even considers asking DB Staff to contemplate such action should be ringing massive alarm bells somewhere in the corridors of power.

Come to think of it,that suggestion,from a customer,just has to be a first....it is actually a moment in time I feel...worth preserving as a sticky even !! :eek:

foggy_lad · 27-09-2010 01:30PM

AlekSmart wrote: »

But,Foggy_Lad,my dear fellow..that would be embarking upon unofficial industrial action,and you probably know the consequences of that.

The mere fact that you,as a Public Transport user,even considers asking DB Staff to contemplate such action should be ringing massive alarm bells somewhere in the corridors of power.

Come to think of it,that suggestion,from a customer,just has to be a first....it is actually a moment in time I feel...worth preserving as a sticky even !! :eek:

i meant it be used as a threat to get the managerial staff to ride the busses and see for themselves the state of play but should also be followed up on if there is no movement by management. it is after all about providing the best service for the travelling public and at the moment that is not happening either by fault or design.

Dublin Bus route 145 :(

Comments