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Pope UK visit mega discussion thread.

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    #272
    admiralofthefleet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,515 ✭✭✭✭admiralofthefleet


    no. he is a nazi animal who is responsible for abuse because he covered it up


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    #273
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    I don't think it's over the top. While JP was pope, Ratzinger was Archbishop of Munich and then the Prefect of something... during this time he covered up numerous (or helped to cover up) cases of priest sexual abuse.

    not to mention now, his comments regarding HIV/AIDS and condom use is completely unacceptable in 2010. (hell it wasn't even acceptable in 1990 really).

    The Pope is open about his wish to "re-evangelise" Europe which would genuinely set us back about 500-1000 years. Lets be honest, do we need god is one question to which my answer is no. But many are unwilling or unable to let go of the god delusion - fine.
    Do we need a pope? I think this answer is a clear no and I find no reason to say yes.
    If you want to believe in god and jesus and have faith in god and jesus, then do you need some guy in Rome telling you what to do?


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    #274
    Dr Strange
    Registered Users Posts: 3,427 ✭✭✭Dr Strange


    Biggins wrote: »
    Indeed. Its partly summarised - and goes further to show what on official record.
    So for all the spin put on it by many, many facts still stand.

    No, there's a lack of credibility by using these kind of words and particularly by only reporting half-baked facts about the different organisations of the time such as the Hitler Youth. You said yourself that the kids were indoctrinated. They would have been, of course, so would you if you had grown up there at the time. And from a much earlier age. They would start off in the Jungvolk at ages around 5 to 6. From then on they would move through different organisation groomed for army service. To say they "joined" is a rather wide interpretation of the term.

    As I said I don't have any interest in the Ratzinger topic but I do mind if the whatever side argues with luke-warm facts about a time and political system when they clearly demonstrate in their posts that they have no understanding of what went on and how complicated the structure of life during that time was.

    Also, whatever may be published in English and other language versions, if it hasn't been read in the original version by a native speaker that misinterpretations can, and do, easily occur. That's nobody's fault but should be kept in mind.


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    #275
    SOCOM
    Registered Users Posts: 1,157 ✭✭✭SOCOM


    Funny how the Vatican helped the likes of barbie and megele flee Europe, he must have ment it as a compliment!


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    #276
    laugh
    Registered Users Posts: 3,745 ✭✭✭laugh


    I bet that German pope and German Queen had a great chit chat in the mother tongue.


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    #277
    faceman
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,587 CMod ✭✭✭✭faceman


    People love a rant, gossip, slander regardless of what the topic is and the picking of a scapegoat goes hand and hand. The Pope is an easy target, hes an old man. Michael Moore did it to Charlton Heston in Bowling for Columbine as if Moore was some crusader against gun crime in america by picking on an old man.


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    #278
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    MrStuffins wrote: »
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
    So you are now DENYING that the Catholic Church covered up Child Rape?

    I asked for cases involving the Pope directly. If you have to clutch at straws prhaps you should quit. I can see why you can't grasp the Pope's speech yesterday though, simple English seems to be just one bridge too far..


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    #279
    laugh
    Registered Users Posts: 3,745 ✭✭✭laugh


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    No. Maybe add a poll?

    That was the last pope.


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    #280
    Dr Strange
    Registered Users Posts: 3,427 ✭✭✭Dr Strange


    Morlar wrote: »
    This was compulsory.



    Every shred of official documentation from that period was 'stamped with nazi emblems'. Even postage stamps were stamped with nazi emblems. Farmers journal magazine, sheet metalworkers magazine you name it and it and it was ominously 'stamped with nazi symbols'.



    What do you mean 'probably' ?
    .....

    Just to note, Biggins did not actually write this post, it was drafted from here: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/article383551.ece


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    #281
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    elviscostello wrote: »
    Why are you dismissing what I am saying as nonsensical? You have been defending him here. .

    You made a ridiculous jump from highlighting the deliberate misinterpreting of the Pope's speech yesterday and correcting BS about his childhood... to defending child abuse. That's non-f*cking-sensical.


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    #282
    MrStuffins
    Registered Users Posts: 19,164 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    prinz wrote: »
    I asked for cases involving the Pope directly. If you have to clutch at straws prhaps you should quit. I can see why you can't grasp the Pope's speech yesterday though, simple English seems to be just one bridge too far..

    So, you seem to think that The Pope has to be caught with a child's mickey in his mouth to be liable?

    Goodbye Mr.Prinz. One day your ignorance will be your undoing!


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    #283
    stovelid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,252 ✭✭✭✭stovelid


    Yes and no.

    Criticism of child abuse, clerical scandals or religious misogyny can never be too OTT, but even though I'm an atheist, I get a little tired of seeing people being constantly nailed simply for their faith.


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    #284
    Fattes
    Registered Users Posts: 3,208 ✭✭✭Fattes


    Any person who refuses to offer and out right and instant apology in relation to the kind of abuse that was carried out and covered up by various members of the Church has no right to preach.

    The point I think he is trying to make is that with out faith people will carry out eveil deeds?

    It seems that with faith people will carry out evil deeds!

    HMMMM Regardless of the comparisons or with whom he makes them anythign coming out of his mouth is crap!

    Clip on sky news where he was encouraging kids to look at spiritual leadears as their insparation and not celebraties. So instead of doing drugs and selling your story to Hello, do kids and deny everything


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    #285
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    MrStuffins wrote: »
    Goodbye Mr.Prinz. One day your ignorance will be your undoing!

    Well it was already your undoing here.


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    #286
    SuperInfinity
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,449 ✭✭✭SuperInfinity


    OisinT wrote: »
    I don't think it's over the top. While JP was pope, Ratzinger was Archbishop of Munich and then the Prefect of something... during this time he covered up numerous (or helped to cover up) cases of priest sexual abuse.

    not to mention now, his comments regarding HIV/AIDS and condom use is completely unacceptable in 2010. (hell it wasn't even acceptable in 1990 really).

    The Pope is open about his wish to "re-evangelise" Europe which would genuinely set us back about 500-1000 years. Lets be honest, do we need god is one question to which my answer is no. But many are unwilling or unable to let go of the god delusion - fine.
    Do we need a pope? I think this answer is a clear no and I find no reason to say yes.
    If you want to believe in god and jesus and have faith in god and jesus, then do you need some guy in Rome telling you what to do?

    Well of course we don't need him, but if people want to start a group that believes that the moon is made of cheese and have one leader who they all believe is God and worship and give all their possessions to, that's their perogative to do so in a free society.

    Imposing your beliefs, whether they be atheism or some other thing, is never a good idea.... although I do agree that at least atheism doesn't try to use fear like "if you don't agree with this you'll burn in everlasting hell".


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    #287
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    Depends what the criticism is.

    He has already been described as a "nazi animal" on this thread. That kind of thing is a joke tbh.


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    #288
    TheZohanS
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,582 ✭✭✭✭TheZohanS


    faceman wrote: »
    People love a rant, gossip, slander regardless of what the topic is and the picking of a scapegoat goes hand and hand. The Pope is an easy target, hes an old man. Michael Moore did it to Charlton Heston in Bowling for Columbine as if Moore was some crusader against gun crime in america by picking on an old man.

    He's responsible for the running of the RC Church, the buck stops with him. To say he's a target because he's old is a poor argument. He's had plenty of time to get the Church in order and he's failed miserably.

    I feel sorry for all the good people in the RC Church that get bashed because of the Pope not getting his act together.


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    #289
    Renn
    Registered Users Posts: 3,255 ✭✭✭Renn


    Massive fail all round from prinz here.


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    #290
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    laugh wrote: »
    That was the last pope.

    Living up to your username. Classic. :pac:


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    #291
    davrho
    Closed Accounts Posts: 758 ✭✭✭davrho


    MrStuffins wrote: »

    Goodbye Mr.Prinz. One day your ignorance will be your undoing!

    You seem to be in this camp yourself?


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    #292
    _feedback_
    Registered Users Posts: 4,269 ✭✭✭_feedback_


    prinz wrote: »
    You made a ridiculous jump from highlighting the deliberate misinterpreting of the Pope's speech yesterday and correcting BS about his childhood... to defending child abuse. That's non-f*cking-sensical.

    I haven't mentioned the Popes speech. I didn't listen to his speech, because I have zero interest in what the guy has to say.

    I also never mentioned his childhood.

    I mentioned the childhoods of some Irish people. I mentioned the fact that he wont accept the resignations of the bastárds that buggered said children.

    I asked you twice, does he have plans to sack them, as you suggested in your previous posts.

    Can you answer the question?


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    #293
    Kasabian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,689 ✭✭✭Kasabian


    The Catholic faith is practised by millions , not all are happy with the church and it's leaders but they remain faithful to the doctrine.


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    #294
    MrStuffins
    Registered Users Posts: 19,164 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    davrho wrote: »
    You seem to be in this camp yourself?

    How is this?


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    #295
    Ash.J.Williams
    Registered Users Posts: 20,930 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    Biggins wrote: »
    Kids that were indoctrinated with Nazi ideology and he wasn't the youngest of the kids by the way, he was 2/3 years away from being a legal adult!
    In fact the pope revelled in Nazi theory, history and practise so much, that he excelled in his exams at it! Its all on record.

    Yet suspiciously, suddenly when it became very quickly obvious that the German NAZI party and its members were to be defeated and held accountable, suddenly there was a "change of heart" - nice timing!

    He joined the NAZI party, He joined the Army.
    He was tutored by one of Germany's top church Nazi's. He excelled in the areas involved - but when it became clear in '45 that Nazi's was on the losing side, coincidently he had a change of heart.

    Sorry, you might and do disagree with me and many but some of us see it as the records stand - and that included his own church, biographer and himself that say he "joined" - only later after the war to be spun as "he was forced" by Rome!
    I wonder why?
    so would we all if we were there


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    #296
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Morlar wrote: »
    This was compulsory.
    Not argued that point.
    Morlar wrote: »
    This was compulsory.
    As previous.
    What do you mean 'probably' ?
    Your right - he DID come under his tutorship.
    If you look at how the christian church was persecuted in communist Russia I see no problem with that being a natural topic of discussion in that context.
    Germany was/is a separate country
    How Russia treated it Catholics is another issue.
    Perhaps you can post the quote ? He would not have been alone in 1936 concluding a disproportionate jewish influence within bolshevism. Winston Churchill write a famous article reaching the very same conclusion.
    Indeed and two wrongs don't make a right.
    And this proves they were in alignment somehow ? There fore this 'alignment' somehow transferred to the pupil who 70+ yrs later is the pope ?
    There are many records that show the alignment of the Church and the Nazi's in that period, even after the war ended.
    One of the popes tutors allegedly made anti-semitic remarks, 'supported' the second world war & condemned the 1944 stauffenberg plot (for some unknown reason).
    This was the main man that was teaching our present pope. Not that the pope needed any help it seems. He excelled himself alone the records show!
    The man was further teaching our young man even more decisive doctrine and judging by those he was openly associating wit, I would say it was anything but leaning towards the Nazi way sadly.
    This is drivel and not the sort of post I would expect from you.
    Unfortunately the records stand as to the deepness of the material he was well versed in.
    You would prefer he had deserted earlier in the war to be rounded up by the gestapo and put in a camp (if he was lucky) ? If it's a choice between that and deserting later in the war then if I was going to desert I know which I'd have chosen.
    Again, indeed.
    However and I raise this as a thought.
    If his religious conviction was so strong then - why, O' why didn't he just try at least to get away, walk, run, anything - at any stage - to get away from involvement in the Nazi organisation.
    Instead he jumped in deeper and deeper and with the best involved in it!

    Something about the whole mess does not sit right with me and its seems with many.


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    #297
    Galvasean
    Registered Users Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    veritable wrote: »
    But why are there no aggressive attacks on the Gardai, health services and govt ministers who were all aware of the abuse??????

    Where is the consistency?

    The health service is getting loads of flak in the media at the moment in realtion to child abuse.


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    #298
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    elviscostello wrote: »
    I mentioned the chilhoods of some Irish people. I mentioned the fact that he wont accept the resignations of the bastárds that buggered said children.

    You made leap from 'defending the Pope' to defending child abuse.
    elviscostello wrote: »
    I asked you twice, does he have plans to sack them, as you suggested in your previous posts. Can you answer the question?

    I don't have his private number right now. When he lets me know I'll tell you what his own plans are. I never suggested he had plans to do anything of the sort. I made clear what I though should be done.


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    #299
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    Renn wrote: »
    Massive fail all round from prinz here.

    Oh do elaborate. Please?


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    #300
    davrho
    Closed Accounts Posts: 758 ✭✭✭davrho


    MrStuffins wrote: »
    How is this?

    By your posts? How else?


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    #301
    DOC09UNAM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,305 ✭✭✭DOC09UNAM


    Renn wrote: »
    Massive fail all round from prinz here.
    If its all round it can't be one specific person :pac:


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