Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

corktina · 15-09-2010 9:30pm

Layzehfoo wrote: »

Can you do me a favour and edit your post to suggest the LUAS in a more conversational manner? I take your point, but I've no intention of insulting you or your intelligence, and I ask for the same courtesy.

what a hoot...this thread gets better and better....

Transportuser09 · 15-09-2010 9:42pm

Building a completely new link is all well and good when it can be afforded, but even in the 'good times' a brand new rail link wouldn't have been sanctioned in this country. And even if it was, you would probably have people complaining that their was a perfectly good line already that could have been relayed.

dowlingm · 15-09-2010 9:44pm

Layzehfoo - are you aware of the limitations inherent in the Drogheda Viaduct? If not, would you mind acquainting yourself?

As for realigning Athenry-Ennis, it'd be nice, sure, but I think most of us here would have settled for a regraded alignment - mostly upward due flooding, no 5mph SRs on rebuilt bridges and no stops in the middle of bloody nowhere (Ardrahan, Craughwell). Oh - and passing loops at Oranmore and Sixmilebridge on day 1.

Layzehfoo · 16-09-2010 12:10am

corktina, it's a matter of respect. I don't demand it, but still, a simple "what about the LUAS?" would have made the exact same point and not sounded nasty.

dowlingm, I'm sure there's some heavy limitations that the viaduct would impose, that only a high-speed link on a new line (like what was thought of on my gauge standardisation thread) could address. Still, the viaduct is a massive asthetic to the town of Drogheda, and any visible changes to it I'm sure would be resisted by the townsfolk.

Definitely with you on the passing loops and the upgraded alignment, but as for stops in the middle of "no-where", I'm not with you. Loughrea is not too far down the road from Craughwell on a very good road, for one, and Ardrahan is also on a main road to/from the city (OK, less of an argument for Ardrahan, but it'd be better served than, say, Attymon or Kilcoole).

Question: What is the consensus of the regulars of the currently open section? Do you wish it closed, curtailed, kept or expanded?

dowlingm · 16-09-2010 3:05am

Loughrea is not too far down the road from Craughwell on a very good road

Drive from Loughrea to get a train to Galway via Athenry? Why not just get the bus - 35 minutes?

As for your question - I wouldn't close the WRC - the time for that decision was before it had a sleeper laid. Now it should be sweated.

Job 1 for me would be a passing loop at Oranmore, a passing loop at Sixmilebridge and a station at Oranmore.

Job 2: recast the schedule with the extra path combinations and hopefully eliminating the 25 minute Ennis hold in the mornings northbound. Ardrahan and Craughwell get two services northbound in the morning, two southbound in the evening just like Attymon.

Job 3: find a way to get a sixth service out of Galway, either direct or as a connection at Athenry, so the last train out of Galway leaves after 1800.

Job 4: hopefully enough cash can be scraped together to add a Longpavement station for LIT/Thomond Park, and maybe a Renmore station too - but with LIT and GMIT fronting for a bus shuttle and in Limerick's case the local regeneration agency too (for CCTV and the Army Ranger Wing :eek:).

corktina · 16-09-2010 7:15am

Layzehfoo wrote: »

corktina, it's a matter of respect. I don't demand it, but still, a simple "what about the LUAS?" would have made the exact same point and not sounded nasty.

?

If you want to come on here and make statements that are not accuarate then you must expect to be taken up on it....it wasn't nasty, sarcastic a touch maybe.

A lot of the people on here are very knowledgable about railways as you will learn and there isn't one of them Anti-Railway. I don't speak for anyone else but for myself I abhor the waste of resources in the way this line has been re-opened...doomed to fail. I'd support re-opening any line where a sound business case can be made and where it is done in a sensible manner, but to open a line like this with a station at every crossroads (and more to come) is sheer lunacy. Had the route been slightly tweaked with a cut off at Athenry (which looks straightforward enough as far as I can see) with stops at Gort and Oranmore only, then it would have been possibly viable, but no, the Vested Interests wanted a line from Limerick to Sligo, not a line to Galway and every village wanted its station back like in the good old days. So what is there now is a re-creation of the old line, which never prospered and which never will.
I'm waiting for accuate figures about usage now that the novelty has warn off.

Zoney · 16-09-2010 8:17am

corktina,

Sorry but I have to disagree. You yourself may not be one of them, but there are people who are prejudiced against the Limerick-Galway line just because they're sour about the lack of improvements on the rest of the network. The shortcomings of Ennis-Athenry, however much they may genuinely exist, are nevertheless blown out of proportion and used by people to justify their prejudice.

Also some people seem to feel that it is necessary to decry Ennis-Athenry in order to oppose railway to Sligo! I think it unlikely there would be as much opposition to the southern WRC were it not for West-on-Track and the lobbying for northern WRC. I consider this reactionary behaviour unnecessary and detrimental - it is most unlikely that any action will be taken on northern WRC and the efforts in opposing it could be better used elsewhere in positive lobbying for e.g. improvements across the board in terms of work practices, reliability, planning, maintanance and journey times.

westtip · 16-09-2010 8:38am

Yes I can see your points Zoney! I think you're right about nothing is going of happen north of Athenry, which is not going to please WOT, but the seemingly positive news re N17/18 Gort Athenry Tuam has effectively killed it off. Re the Ennis Limerick line, sure it could be improved in fact the 60 million that has been touted around as the figure for the Athenry Tuam line would be better spent on the southern branch line to at least make a better job of it:

Some passing points and cut the existing Athenry station out completely with a link line just south west of the town to tie in with the Dublin line - probably around the area of Rathmorrisey, build a new Athenry Station just west of the town at the junction of the southern WRC branch line and the Dublin line, and double track into Galway from there. Also make this a small bus station linked with the M6 and M17/18. The writer, layzehfoo above asked what would we regular writers do - well that's my tuppence worth.

BTW I feel layzehfoo may be trolling to draw this thread into further animosity etc, my advice Corktina is ignore the bait. She who must be obeyed will only come in and close the thread again otherwise.

westtip · 16-09-2010 8:43am

I just wanted to have the 1000th post of this thread - congrats DW sadly missed.

corktina · 16-09-2010 9:37am

thanks for the support but I feel layzehfoo is entitled to his/her opinion even if he /she does misinterpret my mischeivious posts and I welcome his/her further contributions to this thread. Its better to have an opinion rather than be apathetic.

To answer his her quetion properley in case Ive not made it clear, I'd go along with Westtip that now that we've got the line, more investment is needed to make it really worthwhile. That I suppose is unlikley to happen and there are many more lines crying out for more investment too.

My view is that IE should concentrate on whats its good at (is that the right word?:rolleyes:) ie commuter and InterCity services.

Layzehfoo · 17-09-2010 12:31am

corktina, westtip, thanks for the answers. I've been reading and accepting the points, and it's all valid.

Westtip, I'm a stickler for being decent when posting, that's all. Not a trolling man. One man's mischeif can be another man's abuse. (corktina, While I do think you came across a little snarky, I do now take your comments as jesting, no more than that.)

KevR · 17-09-2010 12:35am

dowlingm wrote: »

Drive from Loughrea to get a train to Galway via Athenry? Why not just get the bus - 35 minutes?

Or drive to Athenry and get the train from there. You would have the choice of 28 trains to/from Athenry as opposed to 10 to/from Craughwell. The train journey from Athenry is also quicker what with it being 1 stop closer to Galway than Craughwell. Granted the drive to Athenry would be a few mins longer than the drive to Craughwell but I think you would save time overall by going to Athenry.

I don't think Craughwell has a staffed ticket office (just ticket machines); Athenry has a staffed ticket office and ticket machines. Craughwell only has those small shelters on the platform whereas the platforms at Athenry are largely covered.

If I lived in Loughrea I would definitely use Athenry instead of Craughwell.

corktina · 17-09-2010 2:47am

Snarky? are we hunting the jabberwock next?:D

westtip · 17-09-2010 8:10am

KevR wrote: »

If I lived in Loughrea I would definitely use Athenry instead of Craughwell.

Ditto if you lived in Craughwell, drive to Athenry and have more choice of trains inbound and outbound and not have to put up with the Athenry stoppover. Or just get the bus.

Layzehfoo · 17-09-2010 8:50am

I'm from Loughrea. Everyone I know, goes to Craughwell if they're looking for a train. Say what you like about what you would do, the actual people here are doing something different.

Corktina, why the extra sarcasm? It adds nothing.

corktina · 17-09-2010 11:54am

:rolleyes:

Aard · 17-09-2010 12:45pm

Layzehfoo wrote: »

I'm from Loughrea. Everyone I know, goes to Craughwell if they're looking for a train. Say what you like about what you would do, the actual people here are doing something different.

Be that as it may, were Craughwell not there, there wouldn't be much hardship in going to Athenry, plus it would have saved the cost of building the station.

Layzehfoo wrote: »

Corktina, why the extra sarcasm? It adds nothing.

With only 18 posts, you're not exactly in a position to dictate the oldbies. If you don't like the way people respond, either avoid the forum or live with it.

dowlingm · 17-09-2010 1:59pm

Layzehfoo wrote: »

I'm from Loughrea. Everyone I know, goes to Craughwell if they're looking for a train.

That's the point - are they looking for a train or looking to get from A to B?

If you want to go to Limerick from Loughrea, the Craughwell train might well be the best bet since a bus requires backtracking to Oranmore. But if you're going to Galway the bus is faster (and makes more useful stops) and if you're going to/from Dublin from Craughwell you run up against a completely unhelpful timetable at Athenry because of the single track as opposed to the direct bus service through Loughrea itself.

corktina · 17-09-2010 2:10pm

dowlingm wrote: »

That's the point - are they looking for a train or looking to get from A to B?

If you want to go to Limerick from Loughrea, the Craughwell train might well be the best bet since a bus requires backtracking to Oranmore. But if you're going to Galway the bus is faster (and makes more useful stops) and if you're going to/from Dublin from Craughwell you run up against a completely unhelpful timetable at Athenry because of the single track as opposed to the direct bus service through Loughrea itself.

In a nutshell, thats a problem with this line...the Bus is way more frequent, quicker and cheaper (AFAIK). Also the case with many other lines too. The Motorway Age will not prove to be kind to Railways.

dynamick · 17-09-2010 3:08pm

WDC pleads for mercy
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0917/1224279095680.html

Layzehfoo · 17-09-2010 4:38pm

Well, I'm not sure about your theories guys, but I know of at least 30-odd families in my locality that use the train for getting to Limerick, Galway and Dublin. I'd get into the debate, but on corktina's suggetstion I went and read the backlog. I've read again and again and again and again and again and again times 1000+ how you small group of posters have completely drowned out any voices that might not be critical of the railwayline. You have a serious, serious chip on your shoulders regarding this railway line, Irish Rail in general, and the way western development is promoted. You've argued, and sniped, and you've made yourselves clear again and again and again until any dissenters either break rules or give up.

I've seen what you guys have done before, and I'll have no part in it. This place is yours and yours alone.

As a Loughrea resident, I thought I'd be able to provide some balance on this thread. After the mildly abusive posts from corktina, and especially after reading how bad this actually got at one stage, I do not feel comfortable or welcome here.

I'd be better off trying to talk to Atheists about Christianity, or Christians about Atheism.

mk6705 · 17-09-2010 5:30pm

There's no need to doubt Layzehfoo so much here. Stubbornness can be one of the only reasons for it. It's a railway line and believe it or not people use trains in places outside the greater Dublin area. This line is doing surprisingly well. If anything, it should be upgraded from the stupid 40 MPH speed limit with better track. A proper rail link from Limerick to Galway would be very successful I think, but that doesn't mean this will do bad.

Transportuser09 · 17-09-2010 6:12pm

corktina wrote: »

i ve had enough of personal attacks, Im reporting your post

In fairness, I don't think Layzehfoo comes across as personal in that post.

Propellerhead · 17-09-2010 6:30pm

The point that the thread dominators seem to be unable to grasp is this.

If I want to travel somewhere and I have a choice of train, bus or driving, I will choose the train.

If I want to travel somewhere and I have a choice of bus or driving, I will drive.

I am not alone in this and you do not have to be Tarquin or the IRRS or whatever Aunt Sally you choose to set up as a figure of fun to allegedly reinforce your point.

There has been a seachange in the culture of this country. Thirty five years ago mainstream thought believed that the railways were finished. Why should we as a country cripple our infrastructure because some of the men who advocated the wholesale ripping up of the railways want their day in the sun again?

Judgement Day · 17-09-2010 6:39pm

Propellerhead - How does the closure of the South Wexford line sit with your theory of a new enlightened attitude towards our railways?

dowlingm · 17-09-2010 7:09pm

Propellerhead - I'm sure you're not alone in that - absolutely so. LUAS is a prime example of a system that can bring people from cars to public transport without the intermediate bus part. The Red/Green catchments are somewhat larger than Craughwell-Loughrea, of course.

The problem as I see it is that stops in places like Craughwell have to make sense. The South Wexford stops are a completely different animal in that the bus will lengthen their journey time and I believe in one case there will be no service at all post-closure.

Loughrea and Craughwell have very decent alternatives which the majority of people will consider using, so then I look at the Limerick and Galway end points and think that a greater number of passenger-kilometres will be taken by rail if journey times are reduced by the 3-5 minutes chopping out intermediate stops to empty platforms / not building stops like Crusheen will save (not to mention that those stops on single track sections mean longer waits for crossing services at places like Ennis or Gort)

As for men who want to rip up railways - saying you don't think building Athenry-Tuam before 2020 is a good idea doesn't make you Todd Andrews. I would like you to point out the people on this board who (advocate) the wholesale ripping up of the railways.

foggy_lad · 17-09-2010 8:24pm

Layzehfoo wrote: »

Well, I'm not sure about your theories guys, but I know of at least 30-odd families in my locality that use the train for getting to Limerick, Galway and Dublin.

<snip>

As a Loughrea resident, I thought I'd be able to provide some balance on this thread. <snip>

balance is i am sure always welcomed in all threads and most are better for it.
you know of 30 odd families that use the train but how often do they use it! most people use trains either for getting to/from work or for leisure/shopping/hospital appointments etc so unless all 30 full families are commuting every day they are not making much of an impact as the other passengers are only occasional ones maybe bi-monthly at most for many of them, this patronage will not sustain any railway line.

Propellerhead wrote: »

<snip>

If I want to travel somewhere and I have a choice of train, bus or driving, I will choose the train.

If I want to travel somewhere and I have a choice of bus or driving, I will drive.

I am not alone in this and you do not have to be Tarquin or the IRRS or whatever Aunt Sally you choose to set up as a figure of fun to allegedly reinforce your point.

There has been a seachange in the culture of this country. Thirty five years ago mainstream thought believed that the railways were finished. Why should we as a country cripple our infrastructure because some of the men who advocated the wholesale ripping up of the railways want their day in the sun again?

there has indeed been a C-change in this country and not in the last 35 years but in the last 5!

people are not prepared to spend huge amounts on travelling anymore, if the train costs a family of two adults and 4 children €80 to go from galway to limerick they will chose to take the family car over the bus but if little eileen or johnny is going to college they will get the bus because it is so much cheaper and just about faster as well as much more frequent, and this applies to the whole railway network not just the galway-limerick route!

westtip · 18-09-2010 12:10pm

Layzehfoo wrote: »

Well, I'm not sure about your theories guys, but I know of at least 30-odd families in my locality that use the train for getting to Limerick, Galway and Dublin. I'd get into the debate, but on corktina's suggetstion I went and read the backlog. I've read again and again and again and again and again and again times 1000+ how you small group of posters have completely drowned out any voices that might not be critical of the railwayline. You have a serious, serious chip on your shoulders regarding this railway line, Irish Rail in general, and the way western development is promoted. You've argued, and sniped, and you've made yourselves clear again and again and again until any dissenters either break rules or give up.

I've seen what you guys have done before, and I'll have no part in it. This place is yours and yours alone.

As a Loughrea resident, I thought I'd be able to provide some balance on this thread. After the mildly abusive posts from corktina, and especially after reading how bad this actually got at one stage, I do not feel comfortable or welcome here.

I'd be better off trying to talk to Atheists about Christianity, or Christians about Atheism.

Mate you are a wind up merchant. Corktina ignore this trollop its the usual stirring to get this thread closed by she who must be obeyed. I suggest walking away from it for a couple of days.

corktina · 18-09-2010 1:31pm

Transportuser09 wrote: »

In fairness, I don't think Layzehfoo comes across as personal in that post.

in fairness I dont think I came across as abusive in any of my posts. Guy makes a bit of a blunder forgetting the LUAS and can't stand having his leg pulled about it.

dermo88 · 18-09-2010 5:33pm

A 19 post western based poster, versus corktina with a hell of a lot more, with longevity.

Sounds very like the provocative strategies attempted before by the western association of national knowledge.

There are justified chips on shoulders regarding Irish Rail, and these are consistently being proven.

There are justified chips on shoulders in relation to the way western development is promoted. The reason being.....county first, nation second, Dublin last of all.

The imminent closure of Waterford to Rosslare is symptomatic of this, because the people of Wexford get on with life, rather than grabbing the begging bowl and playing the beal bocht.

Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

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