Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

Pete2k

The trouble Im thinking with a greenway from Athenry-Collooney is the same one you brought up here awhile back Westtip if trains were to run on the WRC again. What to do with all the level crossings on the N17? Is it really a good idea to have people cycling across a road 5 times in a short distance where there are cars commonly doing over 120KPH? Ballindine would be a defo no-go area I think with a level crossing either side of the village on the N17 and a 3rd in the village across a busy R road.

foggy_lad

Pete2k wrote: »

The trouble Im thinking with a greenway from Athenry-Collooney is the same one you brought up here awhile back Westtip if trains were to run on the WRC again. What to do with all the level crossings on the N17? Is it really a good idea to have people cycling across a road 5 times in a short distance where there are cars commonly doing over 120KPH? Ballindine would be a defo no-go area I think with a level crossing either side of the village on the N17 and a 3rd in the village across a busy R road.

there is presumably traffic lights or flyovers provided for cyclists or some safe way to cross the road!

and there is always this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEssgMQ1O_k

westtip

Pete2k wrote: »

The trouble Im thinking with a greenway from Athenry-Collooney is the same one you brought up here awhile back Westtip if trains were to run on the WRC again. What to do with all the level crossings on the N17? Is it really a good idea to have people cycling across a road 5 times in a short distance where there are cars commonly doing over 120KPH? Ballindine would be a defo no-go area I think with a level crossing either side of the village on the N17 and a 3rd in the village across a busy R road.

In life there are problems and solutions. Your point is fair enough though and you wouldn't want kids cycling ahead to cross the N17. You would obviously have a gate (or double gate across the greenway not the road) at such crossings to stop dreaming cyclists tootling along the greenway to cycle straight our across the N17, and taking into account one would hope the N17 will be less busy than it is now when the new road opens (which will happen), pedestrian crossings on these reasigned R roads will hopefully be less of a trauma to cross. It is an issue that would have to be resolved just as the level crossing conundrum will present a huge headache should the railway re-open on this route as it is at the moment with all the N17 traffic on it. It makes me think even more - that the WRC certainly north or Tuam will not happen until the new road is opened because of this railway crossing it (the N17) 5 times in a few miles really is a big issue.

I think this is the whole problem with the WRC though - it just hasn't been thought through - the railway is there we must re-open it is just so illogical - when you consider when these level crossings were last operational on a reguluar daily basis, the number of cars/vehicles on the N17 must have been considerably less than what it is now, its about 14500 per day now, I don't know if any stats woudl be available for the mid 1970s when the line was last operational, I would guess traffic was a third of what it is now, so little to no thought has been given to the consequences of re-opening these crossings -but your point is equally applied to the greenways - but I don't think it is insurmountable.

Transportuser09

foggy_lad wrote: »

i would go so far as to suggest that "phase1" of this folly should be closed by the end of the month to guarantee the continuation of services on the waterford-rosslare line!

The Limerick-Galway line carries more passengers and serves higher centres of population than the Waterford-Rosslare line (even if Wexford town is included). As much as I believe the latter line should be retained and developed, I don't see any benefit in closing the former either.

foggy_lad

Transportuser09 wrote: »

The Limerick-Galway line carries more passengers and serves higher centres of population than the Waterford-Rosslare line (even if Wexford town is included). As much as I believe the latter line should be retained and developed, I don't see any benefit in closing the former either.

but there is a faster much cheaper alternative to the galway-limerick rail line covering much more built up areas while the bus alternative for the wexford people takes more than twice the time on much worse roads so i would see this line as being infinitely more important than the limerick-galway line.

wild handlin

westtip wrote: »

I think this is the whole problem with the WRC though - it just hasn't been thought through - the railway is there we must re-open it is just so illogical - when you consider when these level crossings were last operational on a reguluar daily basis, the number of cars/vehicles on the N17 must have been considerably less than what it is now, its about 14500 per day now, I don't know if any stats woudl be available for the mid 1970s when the line was last operational, I would guess traffic was a third of what it is now, so little to no thought has been given to the consequences of re-opening these crossings -but your point is equally applied to the greenways - but I don't think it is insurmountable.

Unless I'm mistaken westtip the line was still operational and still seeing trains up until 1997 - on a regular basis (Claremorris - Athenry).

Earlier on in the year I mentioned the fact that Collooney - Claremorris (as a cycleway) would not be that appealing, and the money shouldn't be wasted - rather something like Tubbercurry - Lough Talt - Ballina - Crossmolina - Bellmullet would bring in LOTS more tourists than a cycleway starting in the middle of no-where (Collooney - what is there to do in Collooney? Do cyclists continue the extra 15K or so on the busy dual carrage way to Sligo?)
(Please correct me if I'm wrong), but It appears to me that you seem so far pushed on the idea of having Collooney - Claremorris as a cycleway just to prevent the railway ever returning.

Also, why only convert Atherny - Ennis as a cycleway? Why not all the way into Limerick? The Line from Limerick - Ennis was closed as "no-one was using the service" yet after much local campaigning 1 train a week was re-instated, then a twice daily service. I didn't hear people complane "ohh, its a waste of tax payers money to re-lay the line - GET RID OF IT!!"

I'm sorry to say, but I feel there is a real anger at the Ennis - Atherny and Atherny - Claremorris (proposed opening) for whatever reason by a few here on boards. Oh, and like I've said here many times before:

ENNIS - ATHERNY IS NOT A RESULT OF ROSSLARE - WATERFORD WANTING TO BE CLOSD BY IE. IRISH RAIL HAVE WANTED TO CLOSE THAT LINE SINCE THE MID-80'S. (Look at the destruction of Campile, Bridgetown, Ballycullane during the 1980's for example)

PS: (i should make this my signature) I'm NOT a member of WOT or anything like that. I'm simply making a point based on how I view things.

dowlingm

There's a fairly basic geographic distinction between the road and rail routes east of Waterford - i.e. the Suir estuary. The route distance is less, as opposed to the longer route distance that is the Limerick-Galway rail line.

As I keep saying - the fact that the line routes through Athenry is not a fatal flaw. What is a fatal flaw is the lack of capacity in all directions into Athenry which does not facilitate connections with Dublin-Galway services. Were it not for all the single track sections Athenry could do pretty good business, but as we know from Limerick Junction Irish Rail aren't good at putting infrastructure in place to facilitate that, and connecting people from Gort to Dublin was not part of the Weshtern Justice League's mission statement.

westtip

wild handlin wrote: »

Earlier on in the year I mentioned the fact that Collooney - Claremorris (as a cycleway) would not be that appealing, and the money shouldn't be wasted - rather something like Tubbercurry - Lough Talt - Ballina - Crossmolina - Bellmullet would bring in LOTS more tourists than a cycleway starting in the middle of no-where (Collooney - what is there to do in Collooney? Do cyclists continue the extra 15K or so on the busy dual carrage way to Sligo?)
(Please correct me if I'm wrong), but It appears to me that you seem so far pushed on the idea of having Collooney - Claremorris as a cycleway just to prevent the railway ever returning..

Collooney claremorris would be appealing to the good folk of Sligo town and indeed the county what happens these days is people stick their bikes on the back of their cars and drive to the greenway for a day out. yesterday on the Newport greenway a lot of the folk using it lived in Newport - these things get used by locals. The idea is not to "start" a cycleway in Collooney but this will be connected to a wider network called the national cycle network - a way could be found to connect Collooney by greenway to Sligo town. BTW You can in fact cycle from Collooney to Sligo on the old N4 - you don't have to go on the dc.

Having this as an arterial greenway it could indeed connect to the Ox mountains at Tubercurry, great idea, but the alignment of hte rail line is there it makes no sense to re-open the rail line and the problems identified in McCann clearly identified it will be very expensive to do - so why not use it as a greenway - it ain't ever going to be a railway again even T21 makes no real committment to this idea.

This route would provide an arterial route to connect to a network of cyclepaths in Donegal and to a network in Mayo - it would begin to make a long distance cycling holiday a pleasurable rather than unbearable experience.


The reason I would like to see the greenway is I want my children to enjoy the pleasure of cycling around their country - I cycled a lot around Ireland in the 1970s on long distance treks on the then seemingly empty roads - I would not recommend anyone to take a long distance cycling holiday in ireland now its too bloody dangerous out there on the roads.

I don't want to "prevent the railway from coming" but I live in Sligo and from the people I speak to here there is no real interest in the bloody thing. and as we all know the alignment goes around the houses it has loads of level crossings and the service levels on it will be a slow train service which will mean a very slow trip from sligo to Galway - people just won't use it. - they will get on the bus on the new N17/18. so please wake up smell the roses.

wild handlin wrote: »

Also, why only convert Atherny - Ennis as a cycleway? Why not all the way into Limerick? The Line from Limerick - Ennis was closed as "no-one was using the service" yet after much local campaigning 1 train a week was re-instated, then a twice daily service. I didn't hear people complane "ohh, its a waste of tax payers money to re-lay the line - GET RID OF IT!!"

I'm sorry to say, but I feel there is a real anger at the Ennis - Atherny and Atherny - Claremorris (proposed opening) for whatever reason by a few here on boards. .

Actually I think a greenway alongside running parallel with the line into limerick would be a good idea - it can be done in other countries and see the photo I posted up a couple of threads ago:walking by the railway.jpg i Why not?

I think the people opposed to the norther branch line opening like corktina for example, and myself is they can see it as being a waste of time, money and actually not particularly good transport planning - put simply the west doesn't need it but the west does need good quality tourist infrastructure - this is what the long distance greenways will deliver - and believe me the people using these greenways will create more jobs and wealth in the west than a tin pot rail line runnng a couple of push pull diesel locos up and down it all day. The economic evidence that Greenways bring money into areas they run through is overwhelming ....

wild handlin

Yes, you have some valid points there Westtip, however I see it if the line is built, promoted and publiced correctly and given the correct edge over road/bus (e.g cheap fares) then the public will use it. Something which I find totally outragous however is the fact that IE are charging alot of their customers now to use their carparks - alot of which are privatly contracted.

I appriecate the fact that some station car-parks are used for some members of the public for other reasons - walk into town, visit friends etc, but surely something better could be devised, such as a barrier on the way out. Insert your train ticket into the barrier and you exit the car-park free of charge. Those who don't have a ticket pay €1 per hour, or whatever. Same goes for those who have lost their ticket/didn't purchase one.

Similarly if Claremorris - Tuam - Athenry is reopened (which I hope it will be) if IE market it right and have a competetive fares and NO charge for using the car-park I can see Claremorris - Tuam - Athenry - Galway becoming very busy; especially from Tuam - Galway. With free shuttle busses for ticket holders at Galway station into the City Centre it would certainly be a most attractive option for the commuter/day tripper. Also, with trains connecting at Claremorris from Dublin/Ballina/Westport to Galway you then effectivly have a through-put service enabling one to travel from the South East to the North West.

With regard to Collooney - Claremorris I agree that alot of the line is very twisty and would require some work to get it to be competetive, however (something for the future perhaps) would be to open Claremorris - Tubbercurry. Again, significent investment would be needed for track re-alignment for greater speeds. You have the towns of Kiltimagh, Swinford, Charlestown/Bellaghy and Tubercurry all being served with what would be a regional service, interconnecting at Claremorris with trains to Dublin/Westport/Galway.

However, for that requires money - which we currently don't have....

However, based on the population density north of Tubbercurry I would question the viability of having the line to Collooney; however keep the track bed in situ incase something out of the blue happens where the line nth of Tubbercurry becomes viable.

I'm sure (before the Luas came) those who were served by the Harcourt St line must have really been kicking themselves that they allowed CIE to go ahead and close this line - with alot of the trackbed having since been built apon. For shame on CIE, it has to have been one of the worst decisions in transport history in Ireland.

foggy_lad

if the line is built, promoted and publiced correctly and given the correct edge over road/bus (e.g cheap fares) then the public will use it

none of this will happen though and the line if opened will only be so that irish rail can close it a few years later to save money

wild handlin

foggy_lad wrote: »

none of this will happen though and the line if opened will only be so that irish rail can close it a few years later to save money

I would very much doubt that. Remember - most lines (even the DART) are loss making routes.

Ironically - those lines which are creating the most revinue are the ones which still handle freight......................

Victor

Pete2k wrote: »

Is that what you hope will happen or what you think will happen? If Enda does get into power will he be able to ignore the WOT lobby group

Of course he can, because he'll have been elected by then.

Pete2k wrote: »

The trouble Im thinking with a greenway from Athenry-Collooney is the same one you brought up here awhile back Westtip if trains were to run on the WRC again. What to do with all the level crossings on the N17? Is it really a good idea to have people cycling across a road 5 times in a short distance where there are cars commonly doing over 120KPH? Ballindine would be a defo no-go area I think with a level crossing either side of the village on the N17 and a 3rd in the village across a busy R road.

Just put down the crossing gates.

wild handlin wrote: »

I would very much doubt that. Remember - most lines (even the DART) are loss making routes.

DART (certainly pre-recession) is more break-even than loss making.

Ironically - those lines which are creating the most revinue are the ones which still handle freight......................

Cost and revenue need to balance.

wild handlin wrote: »

However, based on the population density north of Tubbercurry I would question the viability of having the line to Collooney; however keep the track bed in situ incase something out of the blue happens where the line nth of Tubbercurry becomes viable.

By, perhaps, putting a cycleway on it?

rainbowdash

To complete the "corridor" Claremorris - Ballina would be as effective IMO as Claremorris - Sligo.

Wexford Town - Ballina direct trains would be the job IMO. With one change for Galway, Cork, Castlebar, Wesport, Tralee, Killarney etc.

westtip

rainbowdash wrote: »

To complete the "corridor" Claremorris - Ballina would be as effective IMO as Claremorris - Sligo.

Wexford Town - Ballina direct trains would be the job IMO. With one change for Galway, Cork, Castlebar, Wesport, Tralee, Killarney etc.

Rainbow I think I may have said that in the original WRC thread about two years ago - which effectively means the Greenway idea on Claremoris Collooney is a valid way of holiding the alignment and in the long term if rail makes a comeback in rural ireland you have the option. In the UK Network Rail who own the alignments turned to Greenways have preserved ownership of those alignements for the unlikeley event of ever wanting to open the railways again.

Actually the idea of Wexford Ballina suits me - for when I have a free pass ( a few years to go yet - even for me) I could spend a day on the train once a year to go to the opera in Wexford, mind you the idea of opening a line for one cranky old pensioner to go the opera free of charge 400 miles away does seem a tad stupid. However - its 15 years away so I might just be on the inaugral Ballina - Wexford SJE! I would of course take a splendid picnic and gallons of ginger Beer JD!

westtip

wild handlin wrote: »

Yes, you have some valid points there Westtip, however I see it if the line is built, promoted and publiced correctly and given the correct edge over road/bus (e.g cheap fares) then the public will use it. .

Look WH if all this happened it would suggest IE are running the show properly - you know that is not going to happen - and no matter how much promotion is done - we ain't got the critical mass of people out here. Demographics are critical to transport planning - we just have not got the population to support this one and nowhere in western europe is anyone opening remote railways through sparsely populated rural areas.

wild handlin

westtip wrote: »

Look WH if all this happened it would suggest IE are running the show properly - you know that is not going to happen - and no matter how much promotion is done - we ain't got the critical mass of people out here. Demographics are critical to transport planning - we just have not got the population to support this one and nowhere in western europe is anyone opening remote railways through sparsely populated rural areas.

I wouldn't call Tuam a sparsely populated. With the vast majority of the residents commuting to Galway city putting in a rail link linking Tuam with Galway sounds like a no-brainer to me. Coupled with the fact that Tuam station is within walking distance of the town centre.

Just my 2 cents for what it's worth

foggy_lad

The trouble is that if there is a rail link built between galway and tuam it will be slower than busses that stop in every village and crossroads on the way. And twice as expensive and by the time the first one gets into galway most of the passengers will be late for work.

wild handlin wrote: »

I wouldn't call Tuam a sparsely populated. With the vast majority of the residents commuting to Galway city putting in a rail link linking Tuam with Galway sounds like a no-brainer to me. Coupled with the fact that Tuam station is within walking distance of the town centre.

Just my 2 cents for what it's worth

Transportuser09

foggy_lad wrote: »

The trouble is that if there is a rail link built between galway and tuam it will be slower than busses that stop in every village and crossroads on the way. And twice as expensive and by the time the first one gets into galway most of the passengers will be late for work.

I don't believe any timetable as been indicated for the Tuam section. I would imagine it would be crafted to allow commuters get into Galway before 9am if they are commuter services.

The fact that it a journey is quicker by road does not alone mean the service will be unsuccessful. If that was the case many of the existing intercity routes would be looking at closure.

dowlingm

That's why additional Athenry-Galway capacity is a requirement - unless the Tuam service was to wait at Athenry for either the Athlone or Limerick to arrive, join and proceed. The distance is telling though - 34km by road, 50km by rail. Also, there would the issue of whether the railcar would have to deadhead from Galway to Tuam first as the Midleton service does from Cork.

westtip

wild handlin wrote: »

I wouldn't call Tuam a sparsely populated. With the vast majority of the residents commuting to Galway city .

How many of the Tuam Galway commuters actually work in the city? ie within a reasonable 5/10 min walk of the station. how many work out of the city centre. How many do the school run before they head off to work, how many of them need to pick the kids up after school, or do a shop or nip to their aged parents. How many work regular commuter hours on the dot 9-5 how many are a lot shift workers, or do flexible hours how many are retail workers with late opening, weekend work, and shops located on out of town ring roads - you see the good people of Tuam will all say yes we need our railway - then ask them with the lifestyles they have and flexibility they need - will they actually use it when its in place. What needs to be identified is this - is there really that unfulfilled need for this service, or has this whole thing now become a matter of spiteful political principles? Have we in fact "lost track" of why or if a railway is needed on this route. Or is it just because one group shouted loud and we (not me!) just went along with all the white noise they have been making.

Think about this - Lets say the morning service from Tuam is at 8.10 every morning this one early commuting train will not provide the flexibility people want, thats why they won't use it, (the same actually applies to the one commuter train from Ennis to Galway in the morning) To have a proper commuter service you need to have regular trains at regular intervals - this level of service could not be provided for Tuam (no more than it can be provided on the southern branch line), this is why the codology has to stop. Tuam/Galway is not a candidate for rail commuting because it will be impossible to provide proper commuter service due to lack of resources on the part of IE. So why bother with it when the flexibility provided by an improved bus service on better roads will actually give the public transport service needed. The people along the WRC are being hoodwinked into thinking this (the WRC) will be a great thing, then when its open the rail operator can only offer a very limited service - and people complain because its not like the Dart. You get what you desire and whats possible, is it really worth clamouring to open a line that at best will offer a poor service?

all this talk about trains waiting in Athenry and merging trains in Athenry from the northern branch line and southern branch line - all this even now before any work has been done on the Tuam line is already considering how will IE manage this dogs breakfast, I actually begin to feel a bit sorry for IE, because the mess is not entirely of their own making. And yet if it does happen, the WOT crowd will puff their chests out have the bands on the platforms on the opening day and say look we opened the line when people said it was not possible - then the service levels - which will be limited due to resources at IE and demand on the line - will end up in a political circle of debate as to why its not working, and poor old IE will get blamed for lack of service levels and not "promoting" it enough. In the end - I regret to say it is the West of Ireland that gets discredited and loses out and we in the west all get tarred with the same brush for campaigning for the wrong type of investment and playing the poor wesht card.

Anyway speech over - I honestly believe Commuting works for moving lots and lots of people into city centres - meaningful cities in terms of size and meaningful commuter volumes and meaningful timetables to match the way people work and to match the population a proper commuter line can support. You won't get this level of service on a Tuam "commuter" service, because it will be impossible to provide. which is why I think this whole thing is a smoke screen and white elephant.

Mark my words much of what I have written above will come to pass if Tuam is re-opened. Is that what people really want to see happening???

Godge

westtip wrote: »

How many of the Tuam Galway commuters actually work in the city? ie within a reasonable 5/10 min walk of the station. how many work out of the city centre. How many do the school run before they head off to work, how many of them need to pick the kids up after school, or do a shop or nip to their aged parents. How many work regular commuter hours on the dot 9-5 how many are a lot shift workers, or do flexible hours how many are retail workers with late opening, weekend work, and shops located on out of town ring roads - you see the good people of Tuam will all say yes we need our railway - then ask them with the lifestyles they have and flexibility they need - will they actually use it when its in place. What needs to be identified is this - is there really that unfulfilled need for this service, or has this whole thing now become a matter of spiteful political principles? Have we in fact "lost track" of why or if a railway is needed on this route. Or is it just because one group shouted loud and we (not me!) just went along with all the white noise they have been making.

Think about this - Lets say the morning service from Tuam is at 8.10 every morning this one early commuting train will not provide the flexibility people want, thats why they won't use it, (the same actually applies to the one commuter train from Ennis to Galway in the morning) To have a proper commuter service you need to have regular trains at regular intervals - this level of service could not be provided for Tuam (no more than it can be provided on the southern branch line), this is why the codology has to stop. Tuam/Galway is not a candidate for rail commuting because it will be impossible to provide proper commuter service due to lack of resources on the part of IE. So why bother with it when the flexibility provided by an improved bus service on better roads will actually give the public transport service needed. The people along the WRC are being hoodwinked into thinking this (the WRC) will be a great thing, then when its open the rail operator can only offer a very limited service - and people complain because its not like the Dart. You get what you desire and whats possible, is it really worth clamouring to open a line that at best will offer a poor service?

all this talk about trains waiting in Athenry and merging trains in Athenry from the northern branch line and southern branch line - all this even now before any work has been done on the Tuam line is already considering how will IE manage this dogs breakfast, I actually begin to feel a bit sorry for IE, because the mess is not entirely of their own making. And yet if it does happen, the WOT crowd will puff their chests out have the bands on the platforms on the opening day and say look we opened the line when people said it was not possible - then the service levels - which will be limited due to resources at IE and demand on the line - will end up in a political circle of debate as to why its not working, and poor old IE will get blamed for lack of service levels and not "promoting" it enough. In the end - I regret to say it is the West of Ireland that gets discredited and loses out and we in the west all get tarred with the same brush for campaigning for the wrong type of investment and playing the poor wesht card.

Anyway speech over - I honestly believe Commuting works for moving lots and lots of people into city centres - meaningful cities in terms of size and meaningful commuter volumes and meaningful timetables to match the way people work and to match the population a proper commuter line can support. You won't get this level of service on a Tuam "commuter" service, because it will be impossible to provide. which is why I think this whole thing is a smoke screen and white elephant.

Mark my words much of what I have written above will come to pass if Tuam is re-opened. Is that what people really want to see happening???

An oasis of sense in this debate.

You are absolutely right about commuting and given the money that has been spent on inter-urban motorways, the only future for rail is commuting. It doesn't matter whether it was right to spend the money on roads, it has happened. The future of inter-city public transport in Ireland is the bus.

As for rail commuting, you are right about Tuam/Galway not working. Outside of Dublin and Cork it is difficult to identify medium-term workable commuter rail options.

dowlingm

A bikeshare scheme is being rolled out in Toronto - but it MUST have 1,000 commitments before kickoff. This is what's needed in Irish public transport infrastructure - people to put their money where their mouth is.

corktina

Godge wrote: »

An oasis of sense in this debate.

You are absolutely right about commuting and given the money that has been spent on inter-urban motorways, the only future for rail is commuting. It doesn't matter whether it was right to spend the money on roads, it has happened. The future of inter-city public transport in Ireland is the bus.

As for rail commuting, you are right about Tuam/Galway not working. Outside of Dublin and Cork it is difficult to identify medium-term workable commuter rail options.

very well said. Its a pity that thosae few voices on here against this folly are being looked at as some sort of lunatic fringe.

Propellerhead

corktina wrote: »

very well said. Its a pity that thosae few voices on here against this folly are being looked at as some sort of lunatic fringe.

Godge wrote:

The future of inter-city public transport in Ireland is the bus.

Given the decision made by the NTA to rubberstamp Irish Rail's decision to close Waterford - Rosslare, it does in fact seem that if there are lunatics then they are at the heart of public administration of this country, and not a few random ordinary folks on a internet forum.

I am sure that plenty of senior civil servants would be only too pleased to prune the railways beyond the point of recognition, and you would find an echo in your views with the likes of Colm MacCarthy and Sean Barrett. I would be very hard pressed to consider the An Bord Snip Nua people outsiders.

Indeed for the last thirty years, unless you are fresh out of the box or otherwise haven't noticed, one of the minor blood sports of some journalists and economists has been baiting the railways. Forget about Anglo Irish Bank and bailing out the bondholders of AIB and BofI, for some it has been much more important to draw fire on and possibly sink the railways.


The Sunday Business Post and the Tribune carried article after article, right up to the opening of Luas, setting it up to be a failure. Notoriously, our Bord Snip lads from the comfort of Doheny and Nesbitts pontificated that we didn't need the railways at all at the time that CIE were building the DART and investing in the Mark III carriages.

If you are a lunatic fringe advocating the ripping up of railways, then you are in a very comfortably off asylum driving a nice car to and from treatment.

Godge

Propellerhead wrote: »

Given the decision made by the NTA to rubberstamp Irish Rail's decision to close Waterford - Rosslare, it does in fact seem that if there are lunatics then they are at the heart of public administration of this country, and not a few random ordinary folks on a internet forum.

I am sure that plenty of senior civil servants would be only too pleased to prune the railways beyond the point of recognition, and you would find an echo in your views with the likes of Colm MacCarthy and Sean Barrett. I would be very hard pressed to consider the An Bord Snip Nua people outsiders.

Indeed for the last thirty years, unless you are fresh out of the box or otherwise haven't noticed, one of the minor blood sports of some journalists and economists has been baiting the railways. Forget about Anglo Irish Bank and bailing out the bondholders of AIB and BofI, for some it has been much more important to draw fire on and possibly sink the railways.


The Sunday Business Post and the Tribune carried article after article, right up to the opening of Luas, setting it up to be a failure. Notoriously, our Bord Snip lads from the comfort of Doheny and Nesbitts pontificated that we didn't need the railways at all at the time that CIE were building the DART and investing in the Mark III carriages.

If you are a lunatic fringe advocating the ripping up of railways, then you are in a very comfortably off asylum driving a nice car to and from treatment.

But you can't say I am against all rail.

The DART interconnector is the most important piece of infrastructure due to be built in the next few years, it must be done properly and with electrification of the Maynooth and Kildare lines. If I am a lunatic......?

I am not against rail, I am against mad rail schemes. Given the distances between Ireland's major cities (Dublin, Cork, Galway, Waterford and Limerick), there is no chance that rail can compete now that the motorways are built. I think too many motorways were built but I am not crying over that spilt milk. Face up to the reality - we cannot afford to invest in inter-city rail.

As for the more remote places on the network - Castlebar, Tralee, Westport - there isn't the population to support rail. One hundred years of dispersed settlement does not a rail-friendly country make, no amount of wishing and hoping will change that.

KevR

dowlingm wrote: »

A bikeshare scheme is being rolled out in Toronto - but it MUST have 1,000 commitments before kickoff. This is what's needed in Irish public transport infrastructure - people to put their money where their mouth is.

Seeing that the people of Crusheen are demanding a train station, IE should demand that X annual commuter tickets are sold before the station gets built. Population of the town is only 700 approx so I'm not sure what a reasonable number of annual commuter tickets would be.

Aard

They may be demanding a station, but why can't IE just say no? They only have 700 people. It's not rocket science.

foggy_lad

they will most likely get their station because it will be built by friends of relatives friends etc etc and nothing shouts louder than a big wad of cash whether in the politicians pocket or in the party coffers!

dowlingm

Propellerhead - I take it you have read the NTA's decision and the supporting documents. What specifically do you take issue with?

dowlingm

foggy_lad wrote: »

they will most likely get their station because it will be built by friends of relatives friends etc etc and nothing shouts louder than a big wad of cash whether in the politicians pocket or in the party coffers!

Even better - they will do it with taxpayer money

Irish Railway News 172 wrote:

IÉ also said “A local developer is prepared to make some land available for a station and car park [at Crusheen], and Clare County Council has agreed to cooperate with the scheme. The Department of Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs have indicated that they may provide CLÁR funding for the station and IÉ has submitted a formal application for the funding this year".

and this is being done on behalf of Minister Killeen.

Meanwhile the European Commission says there is up to 64 million in European money available for rail freight - not one Dublin minister pickpocketing another or giving block grants to Clare Council, external funding - but IE have no projects to suggest.