Garda Recruitment - Applying to join An Garda Siochana

scullersky · 10-09-2010 03:41AM

Thursday, 17 June 2010

Deputy Darragh O’Brien: In his opening statement, the Commissioner stated no new Garda recruits had been taken on since the embargo was introduced. There is a substantial time lapse between when someone applies for the Garda and gets through training.

It was announced some weeks ago, however, that recruitment will start again later in the year and the Commissioner has sought expressions of interest on the website www.publicjobs.ie. How many expressions of interest have there been so far? Will the Garda Reserve be examined as an area from which recruits can be brought? Using the reserve would reduce the number of training hours required and the lead-in time to get new recruits on the street.

Mr. Fachtna Murphy: There are nearly 600 members of the Garda Reserve. I will be attending Templemore College in the next two weeks to attest another 100 members of the reserve. Fifty members of the Garda Reserve have left it to join the full-time Garda Síochána.

Deputy Darragh O’Brien: Did those 50 reserve members transfer last year?

Mr. Fachtna Murphy: No, that figure relates to the past three years.

When I became Commissioner I set up a training review group. Heretofore, it took 62 weeks to train a garda before he or she was attested with the powers of a member of An Garda Síochána. When I joined the force, we were attested the day we entered Templemore College even though we had little clue of what policing was about.
We moved into a strong regime of training since the early 1990s which has been effective. It has stood us in good stead when we were engaged in advance recruitment in the past three or four years. I am pleased we had 14,600 officers in place before the embargo.

Mr. Fachtna Murphy: One recommendation of the training review group was to reduce the length of time in training before a member can be attested to 30 weeks. The lead-in time will not be as long.

The bottom line is we must plan for numbers. That is why we were in discussions with the Minister and, subsequently, with the sanction of the Minister for Finance, we placed the recent recruitment advertisement.
I do not have the exact figure for expressions of interest but it was approximately 6,000 in the first weekend. That figure has already gone up to 15,000 and I expect it to rise even more.

Deputy Darragh O’Brien: Is it planned to reduce the training period from 62 weeks to 32 weeks?

Mr. Fachtna Murphy: It will be reduced from 62 to 36 weeks.

Deputy Darragh O’Brien: Will this apply to the next batch of recruits?

Mr. Fachtna Murphy: Yes, it will be put in place for new students in the training college, whenever we get them.

Deputy Darragh O’Brien: If a member of the Garda Reserve were to be successful in applying for a full-time post in the main Garda force, would he or she have to carry out a full 36-week training course?

Mr. Fachtna Murphy: Yes.

Deputy Darragh O’Brien:

No weight would, therefore, be given to an application from a recruit already in the Garda Reserve.

Mr. Fachtna Murphy: Other countries which have a similar regime do not give weight to such applications either. This was not addressed by the training review group.

Deputy Darragh O’Brien: There are approximately 14,600 full-time members in the force. What was the figure when the Commissioner took over some years ago?

Mr. Fachtna Murphy: In the past five years there has been an increase in the force’s membership from 12,500 to 14,500.

Chairman:

How many candidates were on the panels that were put on ice because of the public sector recruitment embargo? I know some of them had gone so far as medical assessments and so forth.

Mr. Fachtna Murphy: A small number are left on the current panel. We had processed some 160 candidates and we still may get 300 recruits from the panel.

The issue is planning for the future. A police force must have the lifeblood of new recruits and students running through it. A lengthy recruitment freeze of, say, five years would be detrimental to the Garda Síochána. That is why the Minister has supported me on my recruitment plans, as well as the Minister for Finance giving sanction to them. I cannot say when they will happen but I must plan for it.

Chairman: Can these existing panels be called again?

Mr. Fachtna Murphy: Yes. It would not be fair just to chop them as they were at advanced stages.

Deputy Darragh O’Brien: The number of personnel who left the force in 2009 was 776 while 1,506 came into it. There has been some comment about the loss of experience in certain ranks due to early retirements. Are the retirees coming from a certain rank? Is it affecting Garda operations? If so, how is it being managed?

Mr. Fachtna Murphy: Last year, among those who were eligible for retirement, there was uncertainty about the preservation of their retirement entitlements. Accordingly, we received more than 800 applications for retirement of whom 776 retired. Between 9 December 2009, budget day, and 31 December 2009, 65 people who had applied to retire withdrew their applications. This year the retirement rate is running at about one for every four last year. So far this year, 81 members have retired from the force. I do not envisage large numbers leaving immediately.

Regarding the effects of these retirements on the force, last Tuesday the Government sanctioned the promotion of 22 superintendents. I had a large vacuum at superintendent rank and had deferred several positions. I now have the ability to allocate 22 new superintendents to key front line posts, particularly at detective level and in rural areas. I have had to provide for superintendents to look after two or three districts and for inspectors to look after districts as well. This has provided significant relief in terms of the management of the force.
I refer to the overall effects. One has no wish to lose very experienced people but life goes on and people have to retire. For me, the key issue is to ensure that people are coming through the system who we can train up and who can take over from others. There are some very good officers at present, people who are well capable of leading the Garda Síochána. The success we have seen in recent times is down to the leadership of those people and down to those on the front line who day in, day out go out and make arrests and tackle people who are prepared to take part in violence, drug trafficking and other crimes. From that perspective I see no major difficulty. People will suggest there is a major difficulty but I am perfectly happy to manage the force with the officers I have, provided I can have a succession plan and put people in place.

Deputy Darragh O’Brien:

I welcome the clarification because it is important that it is on the record. There has been much comment in this regard and from an examination of some of the comments made one would think the heart has been almost ripped out of the force, which is not the case.

Mr. Fachtna Murphy: That is not coming from me.

Deputy Darragh O’Brien:

I know that.

Mr. Fachtna Murphy: I am pleased to clarify it. Naturally, we will always miss experience when it goes prematurely but ultimately the Garda Síochána is a large organisation and it must go on. We must have the ability to train our people and we have put a good deal in place in recent years to ensure this has taken place. For example, since I became Commissioner I have established a crime training faculty. We have brought in expertise not only from within the organisation, but from outside and from outside the country. That crime training faculty is key to ensuring I have a cadre of officers, detectives and other investigators capable of investigating the crime taking place in 2010.

Deputy Darragh O’Brien: It is interesting to note that the projections for retirement this year are down 75% on last year, which is significant.

Mr. Fachtna Murphy: To call a spade a spade, that is probably contingent on certain issues to do with pension entitlements and so forth.

Sorry its so long but it does confirm that whoever is on the existing panel are and will be available for future intake.

I just hope this helps all the peope, dont worry, I know its hard to say but im sure it will all work out in time...:D:D

Tommy-Kerry :cool:

Ruairi88 · 10-09-2010 08:44PM

What does the Commissioner mean by reducing the training period from 62 weeks down to 36 weeks? does that mean all the recomendations first aid etc will be included or what is the story?

da__flash · 11-09-2010 05:23AM

Ruairi88 wrote: »

What does the Commissioner mean by reducing the training period from 62 weeks down to 36 weeks? does that mean all the recomendations first aid etc will be included or what is the story?

there is a new training program which consists of three phases. You will be attested after 36 weeks then. it being put into place with the next lot in to the college and as for the new recommandations about first aid and so on no one knows because nothin has been annouced so sit tight:cool:

Ruairi88 · 11-09-2010 02:37PM

Thanks... Finally do you have a copy of the training recomended within the 36 weeks?. Or have AGS even drafted up this new training programme?

Ruairi88 · 11-09-2010 09:48PM

Garda recruits to be given full powers after 34 weeks

CONOR LALLY Crime Correspondent in Templemore
NEW GARDA recruits will be given full policing powers, including the power of arrest, after 34 weeks’ training rather than the current period of 58 weeks, it has emerged.
The new recruits will, for the first time, also face psychological assessment as part of the application process to join the force.
The move to fast-track gardaí into policing duties on the streets is contained in a range of new changes to Garda training and development unveiled yesterday.
The recruits will face an intense period of training based on operational scenarios they are likely to encounter while on duty.
They will then be assigned Garda stations around the State to learn policing “on the job”. Minister for Justice Dermot Ahern has welcomed the move.
“Like any profession, you can be in a college doing your degree or whatever but it’s only when you go into the business that you see what it’s really like. You need experience . . . get in to the coalface very quickly.”
Those who apply to join the force will only be successful if they have a driver’s licence, can swim and have first aid training.
Gardaí will also have a range of continuous learning options throughout their careers.
The 2,700 civilians working for the force of 14,700 gardaí will also be offered enhanced training.
This will for the first time involve civilians training alongside gardaí.
The new training regime has been suggested by the Garda Training and Development Review Group. It was established by Garda Commissioner Fachtna Murphy and was chaired by Pat McLoughlin, formerly of the HSE.
It has suggested that while gardaí should have their full powers after 34 weeks’ training, they should then return to the Garda Training College, Templemore, Co Tipperary, for further training phases before they graduate.
Mr Murphy said while new members of the force would be deployed to Garda stations more quickly, their total period in training would not be any shorter than at present.
“It won’t diminish in any way their training. [The full training] regime will be fully focused and will take just as long.”
Advanced driving and firearms course will be enhanced and made available to all members of the force.
Chief Supt Jack Nolan, who is in charge of the Garda College, said significant analysis had been undertaken before it was decided gardaí would be attested after 34 weeks.
The new training reforms were outlined at a reservists’ passing-out ceremony at the Garda College yesterday.

Devil08 · 12-09-2010 02:38PM

What date is that from do you know?

Ruairi88 · 12-09-2010 05:54PM

It's dated from 20/02/2010 which is quite recent. As you know they (AGS) haven't recruited in 2 years so this decision would have been reviewed and debated.In Tommy-Kerry's post the commisioner does CONFIRM that this new system WILL come into effect for fresh recruits coming into the Garda College.

I suppose that in the legal end of the job you will be classed as a Garda quicker rather than wait the 58+ weeks which is definately a positive. Also the pay end will be welcomed as once you are attested you start off on 26+ and your 4,000 rent allwoance which will come in handy particularly if you are posted to Dublin.

So it's good news all's that is left is that Recruitment drive we were promised in June/july!.

longhalloween · 12-09-2010 06:03PM

'Those who apply to join the force will only be successful if they have a driver’s licence, can swim and have first aid training.'

Thats the new requirements then i suppose!

Ruairi88 · 12-09-2010 06:08PM

No they were only recomendations they are not set in stone (yet)!. Thats the media adding it's bit to the piece they training programme was updated but the inclusion of driver license etc are not in affect as of yet!

But now is the time to add a few bits to your locker!. While the time is still on our sides!.

Delancey · 12-09-2010 09:06PM

Ruairi88 wrote: »

Also the pay end will be welcomed as once you are attested you start off on 26+ and your 4,000 rent allwoance which will come in handy particularly if you are posted to Dublin.

So it's good news all's that is left is that Recruitment drive we were promised in June/july!.

Are you quite sure about that ? My understanding is that even though attested the student pay scale applies while in training. On the other hand I may have got the wrong end of the stick

Given the financial situation I could easily see being the case.

Ruairi88 · 13-09-2010 12:09AM

I understand what you are saying Delancey but on the GRA website it says on attestation start of basic is like 26k+ an over 4k rent allowance.
So why say one thing and mean another I imagine that once you are attested you are attested to the force and that has to be reflected in your pay. Now Im not making a case for pay as Im not joining the Gardai for the pay I'd sooner earn 200 and be happy than be on 500 and be miserable.

But yes I'd imagine that once you are attested to the force you will start of on the pay of a newly attested member.

shakin · 13-09-2010 12:58AM

Ruairi88 wrote: »

I understand what you are saying Delancey but on the GRA website it says on attestation start of basic is like 26k+ an over 4k rent allowance.
So why say one thing and mean another I imagine that once you are attested you are attested to the force and that has to be reflected in your pay. Now Im not making a case for pay as Im not joining the Gardai for the pay I'd sooner earn 200 and be happy than be on 500 and be miserable.

But yes I'd imagine that once you are attested to the force you will start of on the pay of a newly attested member.

if im doing the job of a garda regardless of experience i woould want to be paid accordingly, €200 quid with all the costs of going to templmore is nothing! however once again its out of our hands, i would suspect(hope) we would start on the payscale after attestation

eroo · 13-09-2010 09:50AM

Ruairi88 wrote: »

It's dated from 20/02/2010 which is quite recent. As you know they (AGS) haven't recruited in 2 years so this decision would have been reviewed and debated.In Tommy-Kerry's post the commisioner does CONFIRM that this new system WILL come into effect for fresh recruits coming into the Garda College.

I suppose that in the legal end of the job you will be classed as a Garda quicker rather than wait the 58+ weeks which is definately a positive. Also the pay end will be welcomed as once you are attested you start off on 26+ and your 4,000 rent allwoance which will come in handy particularly if you are posted to Dublin.

So it's good news all's that is left is that Recruitment drive we were promised in June/july!.

No offense, but that isn't quite recent at all! However, it looks likely that the new training programme is being put in place.

Personally, I've heard January before there will be any intakes as they are now waiting on the budget in December. There is no money set aside to put people in Templemore right now, just like there is no money to replace cars/vans with over 350k on the clock. However, that does not mean a new recruitment campaign will not be launched this year!

jim davis · 13-09-2010 09:51AM

Ruairi88 wrote: »

No they were only recomendations they are not set in stone (yet)!. Thats the media adding it's bit to the piece they training programme was updated but the inclusion of driver license etc are not in affect as of yet!

But now is the time to add a few bits to your locker!. While the time is still on our sides!.

Thats all well and good but how do you actually prove your able to swim apart from doing the national pool lifeguard qualification.

I was told this is way overboard just to satisfy these recommdations if they came in.plus i was quoted €600 to do it.

surely there's an alternative?

Delancey · 13-09-2010 02:20PM

Ruairi88 wrote: »

I understand what you are saying Delancey but on the GRA website it says on attestation start of basic is like 26k+ an over 4k rent allowance.
So why say one thing and mean another I imagine that once you are attested you are attested to the force and that has to be reflected in your pay. Now Im not making a case for pay as Im not joining the Gardai for the pay I'd sooner earn 200 and be happy than be on 500 and be miserable.

But yes I'd imagine that once you are attested to the force you will start of on the pay of a newly attested member.

Happy days for you guys then in that case

I cant imagine the rent allowance being paid while at Templemore but it would be nice to get the full pay.

klong · 13-09-2010 03:26PM

Ruairi88 wrote: »

I understand what you are saying Delancey but on the GRA website it says on attestation start of basic is like 26k+ an over 4k rent allowance.
So why say one thing and mean another I imagine that once you are attested you are attested to the force and that has to be reflected in your pay. Now Im not making a case for pay as Im not joining the Gardai for the pay I'd sooner earn 200 and be happy than be on 500 and be miserable.

But yes I'd imagine that once you are attested to the force you will start of on the pay of a newly attested member.

...but who is to say that the wages quoted on the GRA website will be the same as those in the next batch? New requirements, new syllabus - new contract as well? All conjecture, mind.

klong · 13-09-2010 10:37PM

jim davis wrote: »

Thats all well and good but how do you actually prove your able to swim apart from doing the national pool lifeguard qualification.

I was told this is way overboard just to satisfy these recommdations if they came in.plus i was quoted €600 to do it.

surely there's an alternative?

Have a 50m swim test as part of the fitness test, which must be completed within a certain time. Easy.

shakin · 14-09-2010 12:05AM

klong wrote: »

Have a 50m swim test as part of the fitness test, which must be completed within a certain time. Easy.

or better still leave it to the coastguard...

Stokseyd · 14-09-2010 07:08PM

:rolleyes:

eroo wrote: »

The year Tipp toppled the Cats - the year Tipp took in some Mules?

Anybody still waiting to hear back frm applying??

Local-womanizer · 14-09-2010 07:43PM

Stokseyd wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Anybody still waiting to hear back frm applying??

When they open the competition you will hear,you cant apply as of yet,only register your interest.

Daffydolly · 15-09-2010 03:26PM

Hey i've been following these posts for the last few months, i'm also waiting 'patiently' for the competition to open. I think without this forum a lot of people would have given up hope of a new competition at this stage. I don't care how how long the whole process takes (providing i keep progressing), just wish they'd get the ball rolling...

C-J · 15-09-2010 04:03PM

I met a retired garda in 07 for aptitude & interview prep, i'm trying to refer a friend onto him for the new campaign i was hoping someone could pm me with his contact info. He was in drumcliff village in county sligo, if anybody knows the man in question i'd really appreciate the headsup. I'd definitely recommend him on to others as well he was absolutely fantastic.

Tommi78 · 15-09-2010 05:28PM

C-J wrote: »

I met a retired garda in 07 for aptitude & interview prep, i'm trying to refer a friend onto him for the new campaign i was hoping someone could pm me with his contact info. He was in drumcliff village in county sligo, if anybody knows the man in question i'd really appreciate the headsup. I'd definitely recommend him on to others as well he was absolutely fantastic.

yes think i was with the same man..... rathcormac village was it not....

C-J · 15-09-2010 06:08PM

Tommi78 wrote: »

yes think i was with the same man..... rathcormac village was it not....

sorry i meant to say he was stationed in drumcliff, do you by any chance have phone details or a name you could pm me with? All my old files from applying r in the attic, shows how long ago it was

redsteveireland · 15-09-2010 08:48PM

klong wrote: »

Have a 50m swim test as part of the fitness test, which must be completed within a certain time. Easy.

Is that the only way they have of testing you.
Will they not try and reduce the numbers going for the aptitude test by saying you need a qualification of some sort to make things easier for publicjobs to deal with?

shakin · 15-09-2010 10:38PM

redsteveireland wrote: »

Is that the only way they have of testing you.
Will they not try and reduce the numbers going for the aptitude test by saying you need a qualification of some sort to make things easier for publicjobs to deal with?

would that not turn it into a thinning process rather than a competition?

Delancey · 15-09-2010 11:04PM

shakin wrote: »

would that not turn it into a thinning process rather than a competition?

Perhaps you're correct in saying that but in competitions with huge numbers of applicants ' thinning ' is widely practiced.
For example , the first step in applying to the P.S.N.I. is the IST - Initial Selection Test which 45-50% of applicants fail.
This test is sometimes called The De-Selection Test :rolleyes:

da__flash · 15-09-2010 11:45PM

shakin wrote: »

would that not turn it into a thinning process rather than a competition?

well it is and it isnt, people that really want it will go out and get this qualification wheres as people who were only applying for the sake of it wont. The countless amounts of people i have met and say sure i m goin throw my name down and see what happens and i ask them why are they are applying and they say heard the moneys good so thats why i would sat thinning should happen... jst my 2 cents do:cool:.

jim davis · 16-09-2010 07:09AM

well see thats the problem flash.im actually finding it hard to get the qualification just in case the swimming requirement does come in.

all i can seem to find is the national pool lifeguard qualification that is run as a full time course down here and i work full time

plus the instructor told me it would be way overboard for what im looking for.

is there anyway of just getting evaulated and get certified to whatever level you are

itsallgood · 16-09-2010 08:09AM

You could go to Mosney and win the fastest swimmer for your age group. You'll get a certificate then.....
I wouldn't be worrying about the swimming element of the recommendations.
Can't see them enforcing this one, Driving licence and first aid, however would be more likely.
Even the ECDL seems far fetched at the moment, most people nowadays can use computers and haven't got one.

Garda Recruitment - Applying to join An Garda Siochana

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