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"We are a Catholic country"

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    #392
    Misanthrope
    Closed Accounts Posts: 613 ✭✭✭Misanthrope


    sensibleken wrote: »
    1.Horus was the son of Isis who made a gold phalus from her husband osiris' body to impregnate herself. hardly the manger story. she was not a virgin

    2.whos this seph character, do you have a reference? are you thinking of set, who was horus enemy as he killed his father. or perhaps geb who is osiris' father. either way similarity in names between diferent languages is meaningless

    3. as is prince philip?

    4.do you have a reference for this. note the zeitgeist movie is not a reference

    You put Zeitgeist on auto-debunk I see.It's hardly the only source of this info.

    Do you think the Zeitgeist producers would bother their ass even making it if all they had was bogus info pulled out of their hole?That's David Icke country, a place nobody in their right mind wants to go(get eaten by illuminati lizards from planet Zoltar..... very dangerous)

    Do you think that's what they wanted?Global ridicule?I don't think so which is why I will quote zeitgeist as a source.I am no Egyptologist and I doubt you are.Debunk it for me.I'm open to correction.

    It's slightly digressive of me to have introduced the comparison.But you'll need more than a golden dildo to debunk Zeitgeist.

    Do you think the zeigeist producers are part of a conspiracy to sully the name of Jesus?


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    #393
    Pace2008
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,587 ✭✭✭Pace2008


    Misanthrope wrote: »
    Do you think the Zeitgeist producers would bother their ass even making it if all they had was bogus info pulled out of their hole?
    Would you say that about every documentary in which a lot of time was invested?


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    #394
    georgieporgy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,927 ✭✭✭georgieporgy


    I think it would be better to quote from an approved Catholic translation of the Bible when one wishes to criticise Catholic teachings or beliefs.

    Some of the colourful quotes from earlier posts are not from the Catholic Bible.

    Even the King James Version is not an approved Catholic translation (but it's pretty good and has lovely style of prose).

    Sometimes something as small as a missing preposition can change the meaning of an entire passage. Mind you, if one reads with good will (as the author intended) it's easy enough to grasp the meaning.


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    #395
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    Misanthrope wrote: »
    Do you think the zeigeist producers are part of a conspiracy to sully the name of Jesus?

    Considering the second part of that Zeitgeist documentary was a conspiracy theory about 9/11, I wouldn't be surprised.

    It appears that you have a lower expectation of evidence when it comes to Zeitgeist, than when it comes to Christianity and its claims.


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    #396
    Misanthrope
    Closed Accounts Posts: 613 ✭✭✭Misanthrope


    Pace2008 wrote: »
    Would you say that about every documentary in which a lot of time was invested?

    It's not really about the time and factor more the humiliation factor when the ruse gets exposed.Your name is attached to it.You are attached to it.

    I don't rule out that they could be genuinely misinformed, in which case,so would I.

    But for now, in the absence of a convincing debunk, my money is on the guys who made a documentary and showed it to the world at risk of global ridicule and possibly risking attack by some gun toting zealot looney(like a Mark David Chapman for example),ahead of the anonymous guy in a forum who merely states a different version of events.


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    #397
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    Misanthrope wrote: »
    But for now, in the absence of a convincing debunk, my money is on the guys who made a documentary and showed it to the world at risk of global ridicule and possibly risking attack by some gun toting zealot looney(like a Mark David Chapman for example),ahead of the anonymous guy in a forum who merely states a different version of events.

    Absence?


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    #398
    Misanthrope
    Closed Accounts Posts: 613 ✭✭✭Misanthrope


    Jakkass wrote: »
    Considering the second part of that Zeitgeist documentary was a conspiracy theory about 9/11, I wouldn't be surprised.

    It appears that you have a lower expectation of evidence when it comes to Zeitgeist, than when it comes to Christianity and its claims.

    Yes I do.Christianity has had 2000 years to come up with some proof and has turned up absolutely zilch.

    If you can convincingly debunk Zeitgeist, I'll be convinced.These guys have been staking their claims for no more than a handful of years.I haven't seen the second part yet.

    You said that it was about 911 conspiracy,and that considering this fact, you would not be surprised if they were part of a conspiracy to sully the name of Jesus.

    So you suspect there could be a link between people who question the findings of the 911 Commission Report, The NIST Report or any other 'offical stories, and a conspiracy against Jesus.

    You teetering dangerously toward the fundamentalist Christian right wing mentality with that mis-wired logic.

    Surely you'd be a bit surprised at least if that turned out to be the case


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    #399
    ger vallely
    Registered Users Posts: 766 ✭✭✭ger vallely


    Used to listen but now Tom Dunne does it for me. He is great craic. Newstalk is the way to go..


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    #400
    Donkey Oaty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,533 ✭✭✭Donkey Oaty


    Misanthrope wrote: »
    You teetering dangerously toward the fundamentalist Christian right wing mentality with that mis-wired logic.

    Ah now, come on, Misanthrope. On the evidence of what he has posted on boards Jakkass isn't like that.


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    #401
    Donkey Oaty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,533 ✭✭✭Donkey Oaty


    ger vallely wrote: »
    Used to listen but now Tom Dunne does it for me. He is great craic. Newstalk is the way to go..

    Tom Dunne is the new messiah? Armageddon outta here...


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    #402
    Misanthrope
    Closed Accounts Posts: 613 ✭✭✭Misanthrope


    Jakkass wrote: »
    It isn't at all. These aren't in any way representative of the majority of believers. .
    No but you, as a professed member of the organisation,nor any of your colleagues have done a damn thing to stop these atrocities.Some church members even help cover it up.

    It might not be representative of you but as a member you are representative of it.

    Have you gone to countmeout.ie and signed off.I'm guessing the answer is no.You have not distanced yourself from it by cancelling your membership.
    Therefore you endorse it and all its vileness


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    #403
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    Misanthrope wrote: »
    If you can convincingly debunk Zeitgeist, I'll be convinced.These guys have been staking their claims for no more than a handful of years.I haven't seen the second part yet.

    Check out the links I've provided both by Skeptics Magazine (who are critics of Christianity), and the link to the google results for Zeitgeist Refuted, which also include a 1hr 30min documentary about why Zeitgeist is bunk, and numerous articles that go into it.

    Mithraism is perhaps the best example I can give off hand that the documentary is false. Mithra in Zeitgeist is said to be born of a virgin. This isn't true, on a search through some of the sources, and even the Wikipedia entry it says that Mithra was born as a fully grown man from a rock! I.E - Big difference! The texts for Mithraism also post-date Christianity. One can't really call plagiarism unless one knows that the tenets of Mithraism were similar to Christianity before Christianity came into existence.

    I'd suspect that like in the case of Mithra, the sources about Horus, Osiris, and Krishna are also disingenuously twisted in the same way.
    Misanthrope wrote: »
    You said that it was about 911 conspiracy,and that considering this fact, you would not be surprised if they were part of a conspiracy to sully the name of Jesus.

    Clearly. I thought you were meant to be the skeptic, not me? :pac:
    Misanthrope wrote: »
    So you suspect there could be a link between people who question the findings of the 911 Commission Report, The NIST Report or any other 'offical stories, and a conspiracy against Jesus.

    Well, considering that the people behind Zeitgeist made a critique about Christianity in part 1, and a conspiracy theory video about 9/11 in part two, they are linked yes. The common denominator is that they are both in the Zeitgeist documentary.
    Misanthrope wrote: »
    You teetering dangerously toward the fundamentalist Christian right wing mentality with that mis-wired logic.

    Call me whatever you wish, but anyone reading this thread, will be able to decide for themselves who has been twisting the sources on this thread.
    Misanthrope wrote: »
    Surely you'd be a bit surprised at least if that turned out to be the case

    A bit surprised about which? The fact that Zeitgeist has been refuted, that it also includes 9/11 conspiracy theories or?


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    #404
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    Misanthrope wrote: »
    No but you, as a professed member of the organisation,nor any of your colleagues have done a damn thing to stop these atrocities.Some church members even help cover it up.

    Colleagues? :confused:
    Misanthrope wrote: »
    It might not be representative of you but as a member you are representative of it.

    Have you gone to countmeout.ie and signed off.I'm guessing the answer is no.You have not distanced yourself from it by cancelling your membership.
    Therefore you endorse it and all its vileness

    Hm, I don't think you understand. I'm not a Roman Catholic.


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    #405
    Misanthrope
    Closed Accounts Posts: 613 ✭✭✭Misanthrope


    Jakkass wrote: »
    You've been watching Zeitgeist? - You realise that was thoroughly debunked years ago?

    Even Skeptics Magazine criticised it heavily:
    http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/09-02-25/#feature

    You'd think if these arguments were useful, that Skeptics Magazine would have been the first to praise them!

    I'll give it a lookover,thanks.Like I said I'm open to correction.

    I have some questions tough.

    Has Skeptic Magazine every applied their critical thinking to the Christian god story?

    Is James Randi a christian?If he is I'll bet the land I own against his prize that he can't conclusively prove god exists as claimed by Christians.

    I suspect he's an atheist though.

    I'm off to read that article for a few


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    #406
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,518 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day; teach a man to fish and he will eat for a lifetime; give a man religion and he will die praying for a fish.


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    #407
    Misanthrope
    Closed Accounts Posts: 613 ✭✭✭Misanthrope


    Jakkass wrote: »
    Colleagues? :confused:



    Hm, I don't think you understand. I'm not a Roman Catholic.

    What are you then?If you are some sort of Christian faith then you and you "bretren"?,"congregation"?,whatever you call them are surely guilty of some level of indifference for allowing a corrupt organisation taint the name of the god you hold so holy, with rape and murder and pillage


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    #408
    Misanthrope
    Closed Accounts Posts: 613 ✭✭✭Misanthrope


    Donkey Oaty wrote: »
    Ah now, come on, Misanthrope. On the evidence of what he has posted on boards Jakkass isn't like that.

    Read back over the quote an post.He ensnared himself there.


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    #409
    Donkey Oaty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,533 ✭✭✭Donkey Oaty


    Misanthrope wrote: »
    Read back over the quote an post.He ensnared himself there.

    I have done now, and I take your point about "conspiracy to sully the name of Jesus".

    It depends on whether the conspiracy is a "campaign against Christianity/religious belief" or some secret movement with a more sinister agenda. Can you clarify that, Jakkass?


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    #410
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    Misanthrope wrote: »
    What are you then?If you are some sort of Christian faith then you and you "bretren"?,"congregation"?,whatever you call them are surely guilty of some level of indifference for allowing a corrupt organisation taint the name of the god you hold so holy, with rape and murder and pillage

    I'm an Anglican, but denomination really doesn't matter all that much to me.

    Personally, I distinguish between the actions of men, and the word of God. I believe I can read the Scriptures for myself, and aim to live a Christian life. It's about God, not men for me. That's why I am pretty indifferent to your attempts to lump me in with people who have clearly done wrong in the past. Not only wrong by us, but wrong by God also.

    I can make decisions for myself about how I live about my life irrespective of your anti-theism.


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    #411
    Misanthrope
    Closed Accounts Posts: 613 ✭✭✭Misanthrope


    Without having read the Skeptic debunk, i'll concede to it just do detatch a digressive debate.I will look into it though.

    So getting back to the existence of god,I am wasting my time because your argument for his existence is faith based and is thus arguing from the point of ignorance,wanton ignorance at that.

    You simply believe he's real.I'm actually looking for him as are many others and we cant find a trace.You just know hes there, don't you.?How though?

    Getting right back to tread topic.If Ireland is a Catholic country,they should revoke my citizenship.I'm not Catholic


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    #412
    Misanthrope
    Closed Accounts Posts: 613 ✭✭✭Misanthrope


    Jakkass wrote: »
    I'm an Anglican, but denomination really doesn't matter all that much to me.

    Personally, I distinguish between the actions of men, and the word of God. I believe I can read the Scriptures for myself, and aim to live a Christian life. It's about God, not men for me. That's why I am pretty indifferent to your attempts to lump me in with people who have clearly done wrong in the past. Not only wrong by us, but wrong by God also.

    I can make decisions for myself about how I live about my life irrespective of your anti-theism.

    Okey doke, we'll leave it there folks.3-2-1 and roll credits.


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    #413
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    Donkey Oaty wrote: »
    I have done now, and I take your point about "conspiracy to sully the name of Jesus".

    It depends on whether the conspiracy is a "campaign against Christianity/religious belief" or some secret movement with a more sinister agenda. Can you clarify that, Jakkass?

    Sure. My point was and has been that Zeitgeist is widely known to be false about equating Jesus with Horus, Osiris, Mithra or Krishna. Even Skeptics Magazine in the USA refuted it. I've explained clearly why the documentary was false on Mithra on this thread.

    My point about the 9/11 conspiracy theory comes in because Zeitgeist: The Movie (2007) is a two-part documentary.

    The first part deals with why Christianity is apparently a hoax, the second part deals with why 9/11 was rigged by the US Government.


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    #414
    Donkey Oaty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,533 ✭✭✭Donkey Oaty


    Misanthrope wrote: »
    Getting right back to tread topic.If Ireland is a Catholic country,they should revoke my citizenship.I'm not Catholic

    Hang on to your travel documents - you can still live here, even though it is. You might not like it, but there you go.


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    #415
    Donkey Oaty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,533 ✭✭✭Donkey Oaty


    Jakkass wrote: »
    Sure. My point was and has been that Zeitgeist is widely known to be false about equating Jesus with Horus, Osiris, Mithra or Krishna. Even Skeptics Magazine in the USA refuted it. I've explained clearly why the documentary was false on Mithra on this thread.

    Okay, but do you think there is some conspiracy behind it? If so, what kind? What is their agenda?


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    #416
    Long Term Louth
    Registered Users Posts: 829 ✭✭✭Long Term Louth


    Misanthrope wrote: »
    Without having read the Skeptic debunk, i'll concede to it just do detatch a digressive debate.I will look into it though.

    So getting back to the existence of god,I am wasting my time because your argument for his existence is faith based and is thus arguing from the point of ignorance,wanton ignorance at that.

    You simply believe he's real.I'm actually looking for him as are many others and we cant find a trace.You just know hes there, don't you.?How though?

    Getting right back to tread topic.If Ireland is a Catholic country,they should revoke my citizenship.I'm not Catholic


    Mmm let me see, its protestant mmmm! no almost forgot atheist :D


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    #417
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    Misanthrope wrote: »
    You simply believe he's real.I'm actually looking for him as are many others and we cant find a trace.You just know hes there, don't you.?How though?

    My decision accompanied a lot of thought. I read the Bible, and following reading it, I decided to become a Christian, pretty much because I found that there was a consistent narrative running through it, it's explanation of the human condition was logical, I found on research that the Bible is archaeologically, and historically consistent with the Middle Eastern environment it was written in, I found on research that the Old Testament prophesies concerning Jesus came true, I found on research that the case that Jesus rose from the dead is actually much more convincing than people make it out to be, I found that objective morality based on God was much more rational and tangible than relative morality based on absolutely nothing. I found that God as Creator made clear sense in comparison to the view that we came from nothing. The idea that the earth has an overriding purpose, and the idea that we as individuals have a real purpose also seemed much more rational to me than anything else.


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    #418
    charlemont
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,725 ✭✭✭charlemont


    a catholic country where a child was a bastard when his parents weren't married but a priest /brother/ nun/well connected can sexually abuse these same children and the gardai turn a blind eye... go ffff anyone who wants this crap back... i personally think people should be protesting outside churches on a sunday, these same hypocrites have too much influence in a republic, if you want to believe in a fairytale existence, or live in a wishy washy world, you better not push your crap in my direction..

    anybody who has a real understanting of irish history should know what this beast has done here since the days of pope adrian....


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    #419
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    Donkey Oaty wrote: »
    Okay, but do you think there is some conspiracy behind it? If so, what kind? What is their agenda?

    Their agenda was clearly to rubbish Christianity. They clearly used false information in the documentary. It's really that simple.


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    #420
    Misanthrope
    Closed Accounts Posts: 613 ✭✭✭Misanthrope


    had to drop this off for ya


    "Randi is out not only to debunk the fakes but to illustrate the foolishness of believing in something without concrete evidence. So far as I can tell, he considers Christianity and religious belief to fall into the same category as the psychic claims he debunks: unsupported by evidence and thus foolishness."

    from http://www.thinkchristian.net


    Looks like Zeitgeist isnt the only thing he debunks!

    right, I'm out.


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    #421
    King Felix
    Closed Accounts Posts: 532 ✭✭✭King Felix


    Jakkass wrote: »
    You've been watching Zeitgeist? - You realise that was thoroughly debunked years ago?

    Even Skeptics Magazine criticised it heavily:
    http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/09-02-25/#feature

    You'd think if these arguments were useful, that Skeptics Magazine would have been the first to praise them!

    There is also the debunking of the debunkers...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_9ZyddjaM4


    Muddy water indeed.

    As for the so called 'Skeptics' Randi et al. I quite liked the debunking of them in this article (in no way related to what you guys are discussing)...

    http://books.google.nl/books?id=8RzQPZ9XRi8C&pg=PA67&lpg=PA67&dq=robert+anton+wilson+,+the+persecution+and+assassination+of+the+the+parapsychologists&source=bl&ots=qLEL6cbPwb&sig=wylxsj0CfIXMFxljwMsVuQB7bDU&hl=nl&ei=VAl4TK-KG8iKONrzzcQG&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBUQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false


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