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"We are a Catholic country"

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  • Options
    #332
    AAAAAAAHHH
    Closed Accounts Posts: 377 ✭✭AAAAAAAHHH


    SafeSurfer wrote: »
    The basic teachings of christianity are alot more than respect and tolerance, you make it sound like 1960's hippy commune.

    The beliefs common to almost all christians are based on the Apollo Creed 2nd to 9th centuries AD.

    This is what I'm looking for. 'The Italian Stallion.'...Look, it's the name, man. 'The Italian Stallion.' The media'll eat it up. Now who discovered America? An Italian, right? What would be better than to get it on with one of his descendants...Southpaw, nuthin'. I'll drop him in three. APOLLO CREED MEETS THE ITALIAN STALLION. Sounds like a damn monster movie.


    These are the basic tenets of christian faith. How you can distill the above into two words, respect and tolerance is beyond comprehension.

    FYP


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    #333
    MarkGrisham
    Closed Accounts Posts: 65 ✭✭MarkGrisham


    We're a catholic country the minute there's a christening, wedding or funeral and a pissup to go with it. Besides that, not a lot of "real" catholics left I'd say!


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    #334
    goose2005
    Registered Users Posts: 4,798 ✭✭✭goose2005


    MySelf56 wrote: »

    Don't get me wrong how many schools built by govt vs church? how many old age homes maintained voluntary church? how many hospitals built by church? Marriages, communion etc are still strong.
    Most of these were built by the state. If they were built "by the church", all that means is that local people gave money to the church, then the church used that money to build the school. If you're going to mention all the voluntary work church members do, that has to be factored against the work performed for decades by thousands of slaves imprisoned in Magdalene institutions. Not to mention the hundreds of millions the state has paid to abuse victims in Woods' "indemnity" deal.


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    #335
    Boxoffrogs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 458 ✭✭Boxoffrogs


    That's precisely correct, a lot of schools are owned by the 'parish' meaning the people that reside there. The money used may have been filtered through the church is, it's the community that have funded their building.


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    #336
    georgieporgy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,927 ✭✭✭georgieporgy


    Do catholics pay taxes? And is it ok if the state spends some of that money for the benefit of said catholics?

    Is it ok for catholics to vote? And can they vote for a candidate of their choice?

    Do catholics have brains?:confused:


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    #337
    Misanthrope
    Closed Accounts Posts: 613 ✭✭✭Misanthrope


    MySelf56 wrote: »
    I don't goto church, at the same time i don't consider my self atheist or follow other religions.

    Don't get me wrong how many schools built by govt vs church? how many old age homes maintained voluntary church? how many hospitals built by church? Marriages, communion etc are still strong.

    Why to be shamed following your catholic beliefs or just any other religion. Just like there is no perfect human religion is also not perfect. Every religion has its pit falls.

    I don't think we have Budha purnima holiday or diwali as holiday or Ramdan as holiday for starter so it is not even secular. So what? majority of the used to practice catholic tradition still they are in vast numbers. Because every one driving german cars with borrowed money doesn't mean not disrepect fellow human or country man.

    Do you think schools,hospitals,old age homes etc should be run by people who subscribe to the following..........

    (Matthew 10 34 - 36)

    34Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. 35For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
    36And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.

    or

    (Deuteronomy 22:28-29)



    28 If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, 29 he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. URL="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy+22%3A28-29&version=NIV#fen-NIV-5500a"]a[/URL He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives

    and

    (Leviticus 20:13)



    13 " 'If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.


    not to mention

    (Leviticus 25:44-46)



    44 " 'Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can will them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.


    Did you happen to hear about any of the crazy **** going on in schools,homes etc run by the church over the last 50 years,all over the world.God let that happen.Could've stopped it but was probably too busy watching the Holocaust and Nam and such
    Christianity is founded on this type of nastiness.Levitcus is the word of your lord as dictated to Moses while he was in the actual presence of the head-honcho.Disparage or disobey at your peril.

    PS. When was the last time any christians in here made a burnt offering to god?


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    #338
    Misanthrope
    Closed Accounts Posts: 613 ✭✭✭Misanthrope


    btw.............. can anyone lend me 50 sheckles?


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    #339
    yawnstretch
    Registered Users Posts: 861 ✭✭✭yawnstretch


    sasser wrote: »
    No it's not a Catholic country, and to be honest I'm sick of it interfering with my life in this Republic.

    Then leave.


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    #340
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,241 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    yawnstretch wrote: »
    Then leave.

    Why is that the only option?

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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    #341
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    Misanthrope wrote: »
    Do you think schools,hospitals,old age homes etc should be run by people who subscribe to the following..........

    Selective out of context quotation is a useful tool I guess.
    Misanthrope wrote: »
    PS. When was the last time any christians in here made a burnt offering to god?

    Is your knowledge of Christian theology that poor? If you are Biblically literate enough to quote convenient sections of the Bible out of context for your own use, you should also be Biblically literate enough to know why Christians don't offer burnt offerings.


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    #342
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    yawnstretch wrote: »
    Then leave.

    Very Christian of you!


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    #343
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    yawnstretch wrote: »
    Then leave.

    As an Irish Citizen... erm why?


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    #344
    bryaner
    Registered Users Posts: 3,181 ✭✭✭bryaner


    We the monkeys.


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    #345
    RobbieTheRobber
    Registered Users Posts: 6,797 ✭✭✭RobbieTheRobber


    Misanthrope wrote: »
    Levitcus is the word of your lord as dictated to Moses while he was in the actual presence of the head-honcho.Disparage or disobey at your peril.

    Lets be fair here the book of Leviticus is how the Jews should live to keep their agreement with god. This isnt really a shared view of god for chritians and jews this book talks a lot about diet which chritians dont abide and also brings up male circumsision which again christians dont enforce.

    So basically Leviticus is no longer really a part of the christian view of god


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    #346
    sensibleken
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,650 ✭✭✭sensibleken


    Misanthrope wrote: »
    Do you think schools,hospitals,old age homes etc should be run by people who subscribe to the following..........

    (Matthew 10 34 - 36)

    (Deuteronomy 22:28-29)

    (Leviticus 20:13)

    (Leviticus 25:44-46)

    Dude you missed out the best one

    Ezekiel 23:19-20

    Yet she came more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. There she lusted after her lovers whos genitals were like those of donkeys and emission was like that of horses.

    aw yeah!


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    #347
    RobbieTheRobber
    Registered Users Posts: 6,797 ✭✭✭RobbieTheRobber


    sensibleken wrote: »
    Dude you missed out the best one

    Ezekiel 23:19-20

    Yet she came more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. There she lusted after her lovers whos genitals were like those of donkeys and emission was like that of horses.

    aw yeah!

    What has that out of context quote got to do with anything?
    This whole thread is not a disscussion on Ireland and catholicism any longer its now just a bash christians thread.


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    #348
    sensibleken
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,650 ✭✭✭sensibleken


    RobbieTheRobber wrote: »
    What has that out of context quote got to do with anything?
    This whole thread is not a disscussion on Ireland and catholicism any longer its now just a bash christians thread.

    oh relax! im just pointing out an entertaining passage.

    ok then, you said that leviticus is no longer part of christian teachings. well the views on homosexuality that are still presented are directly from that book. Im not sure what denomination you are but you cannot deny that it is part of christian culture.

    the catholic church has stood against granting basic human rights to gay people in ireland at every turn. they have tried to hold us back from joining the mature nations of the world. in 92 there was far more debate than when we passed the civil partnership bill. this shows the decreasing of the churches influence to the point where we can comfotably say were no longer a catholic country.


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    #349
    Misanthrope
    Closed Accounts Posts: 613 ✭✭✭Misanthrope


    sensibleken wrote: »
    Dude you missed out the best one

    Ezekiel 23:19-20

    Yet she came more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. There she lusted after her lovers whos genitals were like those of donkeys and emission was like that of horses.

    aw yeah!

    Go on fella!!!!
    How did I never see that one?
    Is that KJV?
    Awesome stuff.Hustler couldn't touch it.


  • Options
    #350
    Misanthrope
    Closed Accounts Posts: 613 ✭✭✭Misanthrope


    Ikky Poo2 wrote: »
    Why is that the only option?

    just go now.There's no place for you here, pilgrim.Go..... gwon git........ scram.We've had enough of ya:D


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    #351
    sensibleken
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,650 ✭✭✭sensibleken


    Misanthrope wrote: »
    Go on fella!!!!
    How did I never see that one?
    Is that KJV?
    Awesome stuff.Hustler couldn't touch it.

    actually i just looked it up in an online king james and its even better

    http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV1&byte=3072925

    'Yet she multiplied her whoredoms'

    thats like a kingdom for skanks!


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    #352
    Misanthrope
    Closed Accounts Posts: 613 ✭✭✭Misanthrope


    RobbieTheRobber wrote: »
    What has that out of context quote got to do with anything?
    This whole thread is not a disscussion on Ireland and catholicism any longer its now just a bash christians thread.

    No I think it's a 'Bash Catholics thread'.I genuinely believe that the thread title was put up there to be challenged not unanimously agreed with.

    Catholics being christians, use the same collection of books from which all teachings are derived.That'd be the Bible.The quotes I gave were certainly in context.The fact is it is book of ugliness on which hideous sects have been built.

    Personally I think the Bible is the biggest load of tripe ever put to paper.A pack of lies poorly wrapped in half truths.And I don't believe in any god............none.

    Thus I resent being told that Ireland is a catholic country.I would also resent it being claimed in the name of christianity or any other cult


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    #353
    Misanthrope
    Closed Accounts Posts: 613 ✭✭✭Misanthrope


    sensibleken wrote: »
    oh relax! im just pointing out an entertaining passage.

    ok then, you said that leviticus is no longer part of christian teachings. .

    BLASPHEMY!!!

    That's a tad 'a la carte' of them.Pick n Mix eh?


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    #354
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    sensibleken wrote: »
    actually i just looked it up in an online king james and its even better

    http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV1&byte=3072925

    'Yet she multiplied her whoredoms'

    thats like a kingdom for skanks!

    It led to the Great Whoredom Bubble of 07 though...


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    #355
    RobbieTheRobber
    Registered Users Posts: 6,797 ✭✭✭RobbieTheRobber


    sensibleken wrote: »
    oh relax! im just pointing out an entertaining passage.

    ok then, you said that leviticus is no longer part of christian teachings. well the views on homosexuality that are still presented are directly from that book. Im not sure what denomination you are but you cannot deny that it is part of christian culture.

    The entertaining passage is from a big long list of sins a prostitute commited, not something god was suggesting she do.

    I dont have a faith I dont realy even believe in a god although i rarely give it much thought these days. However I would be oppossed to people who militantly oppose others who have faith.
    Yes if it impinges on my lifestyle perhaps i may begin to complain but I see no reason to go begin abusing someone else for their beliefs.
    Misanthrope wrote: »
    No I think it's a 'Bash Catholics thread'.I genuinely believe that the thread title was put up there to be challenged not unanimously agreed with.


    Thus I resent being told that Ireland is a catholic country.I would also resent it being claimed in the name of christianity or any other cult

    The thread isnt really discussin are we catholic country more why catholicism is bad.

    Im not a practising religious person, I was baptised communed and confirmed so i guess technically im a catholic like 70% or so of this country. so i would say we are a catholic country.

    Just like if asked what language do we speak in ireland i would say english and i would not feel the need to begin a rant about how mean the english were and 800 years and my ancestors died casue they had no spuds. damn them english an all that


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    #356
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    Misanthrope wrote: »
    Catholics being christians, use the same collection of books from which all teachings are derived.That'd be the Bible.The quotes I gave were certainly in context.The fact is it is book of ugliness on which hideous sects have been built.

    I can tell you now, that the quotes aren't: Just be honest, did you go to "The Reason Project", or "The Skeptics Annotated Bible" for these quotes?

    Matthew 10 (see the whole chapter) -

    Jesus sends out the disciples to share the Gospel going to villages and homes. If people reject what they are saying, they are to shake the dust off their sandals and go to the next town, if not they are to stay and preach. Believers will be arrested by authorities, be arrested flogged etc.

    Jesus is clearly talking about the persecution that preaching the Gospel will bring upon people. This persecution mightn't be very prominent in the Western world, but there are parts of the world where you will be stoned to death, imprisoned, assaulted, etc for evangelising or proselytising. Three major examples being Saudi Arabia, China, and North Korea.

    Deuteronomy 22 - (see entire chapter) Describes the Jewish law in the event of rape. I.E - The State law of Biblical Israel, a state that no longer exists and hasn't existed since roughly 150BC. Read the whole chapter, it describes 4 situations. 1 - If a woman has lied about her virginity before marriage (vs. 13-19), 2 - Adultery (vs. 22) , 3 - Rape / violation of engagement in an urban setting (v. 25-26), 4 - Rape / in a country setting (v. 25-27), 6) Rape of unmarried.

    On 6, Deuteronomy says that a man shall pay the father 50 shekels, and that he must marry her. Exodus gives more explanation:
    Exodus 22:16-17 wrote:
    "If a man seduces a virgin who is not pledged to be married and sleeps with her, he must pay the bride-price, and she shall be his wife. 17 If her father absolutely refuses to give her to him, he must still pay the bride-price for virgins.
    This also includes pre-marital sex. But the father clearly has the right to refuse.

    (N.B - The NIV is the only translation to use rape in vs. 28 of Deuteronomy 22, ESV uses "seizes her and lies with her", KJV uses "lay hold of her, and lie with her". I.E - It's not clear that it is referring to rape, or just general premarital sex as in Exodus 22)

    Leviticus 20 (see entire chapter) - Again the Jewish law for sexual violations. Much of what is said above is applicable here.

    N.B - Christians do not encourage the death penalty as of Jesus Christ (if Jesus died for our sins, who are we to expect such a punishment for others) for these things, but under the Jewish law they did.

    Paul writes in the New Testament, that sin is deserving of death, but due to Christ's sacrifice we are free from this penalty.
    Romans 1:28-32 wrote:
    Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

    Leviticus 25 (see entire chapter) - I posted on a thread over a year ago on the Atheism & Agnosticism, explaining the difference between Biblical slavery and colonial slavery. We think of the latter when we are talking about the former, but it is an anachronism to do so. One needs to read what is actually said about it.

    1) Slaves had the right to flee from abusive masters, and if they fled, the authorities weren't allowed to give them back.
    2) Slaves were discouraged in the Jewish law from using excessive force against slaves.
    3) The Israelites were encouraged to respect aliens and immigrants into their community as themselves.
    4) Slaves were allowed to go out, and slaves were given the Sabbath rest, just like other Israelites.

    Ezekiel 23 (see entire chapter) - Is referring to the unfaithfulness of Israel to God. It pretty much explains itself.

    I wish people would do their own homework first before rubbishing something!
    Misanthrope wrote: »
    Personally I think the Bible is the biggest load of tripe ever put to paper.A pack of lies poorly wrapped in half truths.And I don't believe in any god............none.

    Personally, I think the Bible is the inspired word of God, the God who it describes is the essence of all truth and reality. I believe in the Lord Jesus Christ.

    We can all make statements like the ones you've just made, but what's the point behind them?
    Misanthrope wrote: »
    Thus I resent being told that Ireland is a catholic country.I would also resent it being claimed in the name of christianity or any other cult

    I don't believe that Ireland is a Catholic country any more than I believe that it is a Hindu country. What I do think is that there is a level of Catholicism embedded into the culture. Personally, I'm not a member of the RCC, but I'm not really all that interested in purging it out of society, or the culture. It's not really affected me I guess.


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    #357
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    RobbieTheRobber wrote: »
    The entertaining passage is from a big long list of sins a prostitute commited, not something god was suggesting she do.

    It's not even about a prostitute, it's about Israel and Judah (two Israelite kingdoms) and how their people rejected God, and turned to idols. It uses the allegory of a relationship in order to describe it. If you actually read Ezekiel 23 it's clearly obvious that this is what it is referring to.

    Unfortunately, people who take a mere Google search to find Bible quotes to copy and paste ignore the meaning!

    It makes me weep a little inside when I see such blatant ignorance of Christianity being spouted on boards by skeptics! :pac:


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    #358
    Pace2008
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,587 ✭✭✭Pace2008


    The bit about the big donkey dicks is still funny, though.


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    #359
    Misanthrope
    Closed Accounts Posts: 613 ✭✭✭Misanthrope


    Jakkass wrote: »
    I believe in the Lord Jesus Christ.

    There is no evidence to support his existence.He's not there.And if he was, he died for his sins, not mine.

    Religion is a root of evil as far as I'm concerned and there is a mountain of evidence to back that claim up.

    Prove your god to me.You can't.Because if you attempt to prove it you lose your faith.Faith is what it's all about in religion.Blind faith.


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    #360
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    Misanthrope wrote: »
    There is no evidence to support his existence.He's not there.And if he was, he died for his sins, not mine.

    Josephus, Tactius, Pliny the Younger, Lucretius, the Babylonian Talmud, amongst other non-Christian sources back up the existence of Jesus, as a figure that died under Pontius Pilate during the reign of Caesar Tiberius. Most likely on the current site of the Church of the Holy Sepulchre according to later historians such as Eusebius who wrote a church history from the first to the fourth century.

    And then of course, the Gospels and the New Testament as a whole.
    Misanthrope wrote: »
    Religion is a root of evil as far as I'm concerned and there is a mountain of evidence to back that claim up.

    Good for you. I'm just an average person, who wishes to let his faith with God inform his daily living. I'm not a suicide bomber, I don't advocate shooting abortionists or anything else for that matter. I'd like to think I am reasonably intelligent, and I'd like to think that my faith in God, and how that informs my stance to others will leave this world a better, rather than a worse place.

    How exactly am I personally harmful to you or to society at large?
    Misanthrope wrote: »
    Prove your god to me.You can't.Because if you attempt to prove it you lose your faith.Faith is what it's all about in religion.Blind faith.

    I can't demonstrably prove God's existence any more than you can disprove it. I admit this.

    The argument is limited to this. There are three broad claims:
    1) Theism - God exists.
    2) Agnosticism - I don't know.
    3) Atheism - God does not exist.

    Now, we start off at position 2, not position 1 or 3. The best we can do as theists or atheists is the following:
    Argue why it is more likely that God does or does not exist. One cannot certifiably prove or disprove God, so instead one must explain why one believes in it.

    I'm happy to do this, but in order to do this, we must have a dialogue where we both explain our positions. Rather than a case of me explaining my beliefs and you shouting "Prove it! Prove it!". Such childishness should be beyond anyone.


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    #361
    Misanthrope
    Closed Accounts Posts: 613 ✭✭✭Misanthrope


    Pace2008 wrote: »
    The bit about the big donkey dicks is still funny, though.
    yeah, whoever penned that had a warped mind.


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