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Landis admits doping, points finger at LA - Please read Mod Warning post 1

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Comments

  • #632
    TinyExplosions
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,860 ✭✭✭TinyExplosions


    Moflojo wrote: »
    Methinks Hans-Michael Holczer is gonna have a defamation suit on his hands.

    I severely doubt that Leipheimer will do anything other than state "I have not tested positive for banned substances" -I think we've mostly moved on from the lawsuits as a lot of people don't want to have the past dug through
    tunney wrote: »
    You are being sarcastic with the "worlds greatest athelete" bit right?

    If that was the only sarcastic bit I'd be very worried


  • #633
    tunney
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,584 ✭✭✭✭tunney


    Just for fun, the 2005 TdF top 10.

    1. Lance Armstrong
    2. Ivan Basso
    3. Jan Ullrich
    4. Francisco Mancebo
    5. Alexandre Vinokourov
    6. Levi Leipheimer
    7. Mickael Rasmussen
    8. Cadel Evans
    9. Floyd Landis
    10. Oscar Pereiro Sio

    What do the names in bold have in common? :)


  • #634
    AstraMonti
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,704 ✭✭✭AstraMonti


    Way to go Levi!


  • #635
    NickDrake
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,916 ✭✭✭NickDrake


    TinyExplosions wrote: »
    I severely doubt that Leipheimer will do anything other than state "I have not tested positive for banned substances" -I think we've mostly moved on from the lawsuits as a lot of people don't want to have the past dug through



    If that was the only sarcastic bit I'd be very worried

    Levi tested positive in 1996


  • #636
    NickDrake
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,916 ✭✭✭NickDrake


    tunney wrote: »
    Just for fun, the 2005 TdF top 10.

    1. Lance Armstrong
    2. Ivan Basso
    3. Jan Ullrich
    4. Francisco Mancebo
    5. Alexandre Vinokourov
    6. Levi Leipheimer
    7. Mickael Rasmussen
    8. Cadel Evans
    9. Floyd Landis
    10. Oscar Pereiro Sio

    What do the names in bold have in common? :)

    Am Levi should be in bold as per http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/holczer-accuses-leipheimer-of-blood-manipulation.

    None of the above had a positive test that year but we know they were filthy so Levi can go in bold too.


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  • #637
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,277 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    I think that was Tunney's point.


  • #638
    mloc123
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,445 ✭✭✭mloc123


    Shows how good Lance is, clean as a whistle and still beating all those dirty cancer loving cheats.


  • #639
    NickDrake
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,916 ✭✭✭NickDrake


    el tonto wrote: »
    I think that was Tunney's point.

    Ya its amazing because if you came on here in 2005 and said they were doping and especially Lance you would have got your head bitten off. I suspected and commented and got told off.

    Now I have suspected again this year and the same thing happend, head taken off. My point is we don't know what the future holds but this sport has not changed that much boys


  • #640
    tunney
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,584 ✭✭✭✭tunney


    mloc123 wrote: »
    Shows how good Lance is, clean as a whistle and still beating all those dirty cancer loving freedom hating cheats.

    Fixed that for you


  • #641
    TinyExplosions
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,860 ✭✭✭TinyExplosions


    tunney wrote: »
    Just for fun, the 2005 TdF top 10.

    1. Lance Armstrong
    2. Ivan Basso
    3. Jan Ullrich
    4. Francisco Mancebo
    5. Alexandre Vinokourov
    6. Levi Leipheimer
    7. Mickael Rasmussen
    8. Cadel Evans
    9. Floyd Landis
    10. Oscar Pereiro Sio

    What do the names in bold have in common? :)

    They're all awesome cyclists?


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  • #642
    Lumen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,480 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    NickDrake wrote: »
    Ya its amazing because if you came on here in 2005 and said they were doping and especially Lance you would have got your head bitten off. I suspected and commented and got told off.

    Join date: Mar 2008


  • #643
    NickDrake
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,916 ✭✭✭NickDrake


    Lumen wrote: »
    Join date: Mar 2008

    I had another profile back in 2005. Changed profile as I left boards for a while.


  • #644
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,277 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    NickDrake wrote: »
    Ya its amazing because if you came on here in 2005 and said they were doping and especially Lance you would have got your head bitten off. I suspected and commented and got told off.

    Now I have suspected again this year and the same thing happend, head taken off. My point is we don't know what the future holds but this sport has not changed that much boys

    There seemed to be fairly reasonable debate on the subject back in 2005 between the doubters and the believers. Certainly nobody getting their head taken off.

    And who's taking your head off now?


  • #645
    NickDrake
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,916 ✭✭✭NickDrake


    el tonto wrote: »
    There seemed to be fairly reasonable debate on the subject back in 2005 between the doubters and the believers. Certainly nobody getting their head taken off.

    And who's taking your head off now?

    No mention of the likes of Basso and Ully and so on. Mainly Armstrong. My head was bitten off in earlier threads during the Tour and told to shut up (not you mind) and enjoy the racing.

    Thats all I will be saying on it. Made my point and I will sit and wait.


  • #646
    TinyExplosions
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,860 ✭✭✭TinyExplosions


    NickDrake wrote: »
    Ya its amazing because if you came on here in 2005 and said they were doping and especially Lance you would have got your head bitten off. I suspected and commented and got told off.

    Now I have suspected again this year and the same thing happend, head taken off. My point is we don't know what the future holds but this sport has not changed that much boys

    Who took your head off? you should see a doctor about that, can be dangerous.

    Noone here disagrees that there are dopers out there, just that we're tired of it being dragged up in every thread about the Tour stages. Fair play, you stopped that and kept it in this thread (or the dopers threads) and no one's complained


  • #647
    niceonetom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,833 ✭✭✭niceonetom


    My problem with you , Nick, isn't that you talk about doping, it's that you only talk about doping. You also talk about it as if we're all idiots who've just stumbled upon cycling 15 minutes ago and know nothing.

    A steady diet of monotony and condescension might give rise to responses that you might misinterpret as decapitation.
    NickDrake wrote: »
    Thats all I will be saying on it. Made my point and I will sit and wait.

    I don't believe you.


  • #648
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,277 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    NickDrake wrote: »
    NMy head was bitten off in earlier threads during the Tour and told to shut up (not you mind) and enjoy the racing.

    I remember those threads and I think you're painting a bit of a misleading picture there about what happened. In my experience there are few very people on here who get upset when someone highlights doping in the sport. What you were doing was bringing up the same stuff over and over again, things that people were already well aware off, e.g. Vinokourov and Riis.


  • #649
    Bluefoam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,712 ✭✭✭Bluefoam


    Lets face it, there is little skill left in cycling, its all about who has the better doctor & is willling to risk their own health to buy a win... doping is here to stay. We should give the yellow jersey to the doctor who gets most of his dopers in the top 10. Polka dot jersey goes to the rider who has taken them most unusual cocktail of drugs etc...


  • #650
    Inquitus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,778 ✭✭✭✭Inquitus


    tunney wrote: »
    Just for fun, the 2005 TdF top 10.

    1. Lance Armstrong
    2. Ivan Basso
    3. Jan Ullrich
    4. Francisco Mancebo
    5. Alexandre Vinokourov
    6. Levi Leipheimer
    7. Mickael Rasmussen
    8. Cadel Evans
    9. Floyd Landis
    10. Oscar Pereiro Sio

    What do the names in bold have in common? :)

    They got caught?


  • #651
    Lumen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,480 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    Bluefoam wrote: »
    Lets face it, there is little skill left in cycling, its all about who has the better doctor & is willling to risk their own health to buy a win... doping is here to stay. We should give the yellow jersey to the doctor who gets most of his dopers in the top 10. Polka dot jersey goes to the rider who has taken them most unusual cocktail of drugs etc...

    That's defeatist.

    Aside from the odd outlier (e.g. PFC abuse) it seems likely that the current level of doping, in terms both of physiological benefit and health risks, is much lower than it has been for several decades.

    Much of the current fuss concerns allegations going back ten years.

    Casting doubt and cynicism on the achievements of those not yet implicated risks turning away those who want to compete clean.

    It may never be possible to have completely clean sport, but creating an environment where it is possible to compete honestly must be achievable.

    Well, one can hope.


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  • #652
    Quigs Snr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,214 ✭✭✭Quigs Snr


    tunney wrote: »
    Just for fun, the 2005 TdF top 10.

    1. Lance Armstrong
    2. Ivan Basso
    3. Jan Ullrich
    4. Francisco Mancebo
    5. Alexandre Vinokourov
    6. Levi Leipheimer
    7. Mickael Rasmussen
    8. Cadel Evans
    9. Floyd Landis
    10. Oscar Pereiro Sio

    What do the names in bold have in common? :)

    I can tell you what the ones not in bold have in common. They have not been caught. Yet. But I would eat this keyboard if any one of them was clean (yes, even including Evans).


  • #653
    Inquitus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,778 ✭✭✭✭Inquitus


    Lumen wrote: »
    Casting doubt and cynicism on the achievements of those not yet implicated risks turning away those who want to compete clean.

    It may never be possible to have completely clean sport, but creating an environment where it is possible to compete honestly must be achievable.

    Well, one can hope.

    I think its fair to assume on the balance of probability that every tour winner for the past 20 years has been a drug cheat. It may be that the halycon days of EPO bringing about 20% performance boosts are gone, but that does not mean the sport is clean, it just means the benefits of doping have been reeled in somewhat.

    Even a 3-5% performance boost from doping will rule out a clean riders chances of winning, just because its no longer 20% doesnt mean the playing field is any fairer for those who wish to cycle dope free, it just means the gap between them and those doping at the front has narrowed.


  • #654
    NickDrake
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,916 ✭✭✭NickDrake


    Lumen wrote: »
    That's defeatist.

    Aside from the odd outlier (e.g. PFC abuse) it seems likely that the current level of doping, in terms both of physiological benefit and health risks, is much lower than it has been for several decades.

    Much of the current fuss concerns allegations going back ten years.

    Casting doubt and cynicism on the achievements of those not yet implicated risks turning away those who want to compete clean.

    It may never be possible to have completely clean sport, but creating an environment where it is possible to compete honestly must be achievable.

    Well, one can hope.

    Disagree there Lumen. Blood transfusions are still on the go.

    Now Micro Dosing EPO is very hard to detect and has been argued to be just as affective as before. HGH is VERY hard to detect. Only some forms can be found.

    What about blood substitutes that are being used. i.e cow blood. etc.

    People were saying back in 2005/2006 that things were cleaner and look what happened.

    We don't know what new drugs are on the market.

    Most of the current fuss relates to 5 years ago too. Not that long ago.


  • #655
    NickDrake
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,916 ✭✭✭NickDrake


    niceonetom wrote: »
    My problem with you , Nick, isn't that you talk about doping, it's that you only talk about doping. You also talk about it as if we're all idiots who've just stumbled upon cycling 15 minutes ago and know nothing.

    A steady diet of monotony and condescension might give rise to responses that you might misinterpret as decapitation.



    I don't believe you.

    I am not going back to point on naming suspects. Still going to post on doping though. Its a free world


  • #656
    tunney
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,584 ✭✭✭✭tunney


    NickDrake wrote: »
    <snip>
    Now Micro Dosing EPO is very hard to detect and has been argued to be just as affective as before. HGH is VERY hard to detect. Only some forms can be found.
    <snip>

    Interestingly enough its now being debated if HGH delivers any PE benefits.


  • #657
    NickDrake
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,916 ✭✭✭NickDrake


    tunney wrote: »
    Interestingly enough its now being debated if HGH delivers any PE benefits.

    Surely if it grows you more muscle in your guads then it will benefit you. Also helps with sleep and recovery.


  • #658
    tunney
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,584 ✭✭✭✭tunney


    NickDrake wrote: »
    Surely if it grows you more muscle in your guads then it will benefit you. Also helps with sleep and recovery.

    Thats the issue. Its something released during sleep and you get massive recovery during sleep. It had been assumed that HGH was the the cause of the recovery and muscle growth but some are questioning that link now.


  • #659
    furiousox
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,217 ✭✭✭furiousox


    Inquitus wrote: »
    I think its fair to assume on the balance of probability that every tour winner for the past 20 years has been a drug cheat..

    Do you include Greg LeMond in that assumption?

    CPL 593H



  • #660
    Inquitus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,778 ✭✭✭✭Inquitus


    furiousox wrote: »
    Do you include Greg LeMond in that assumption?

    Greg Le Mond wasn't one of the last 20 winners of the tour.


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  • #661
    furiousox
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,217 ✭✭✭furiousox


    Inquitus wrote: »
    Greg Le Mond wasn't one of the last 20 winners of the tour.

    Um...I think you'll find he was...

    CPL 593H



This discussion has been closed.
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