N4/N5: How should they be developed?

Irish and Proud · 05-05-2010 10:36pm

123easy wrote: »

It seems pretty damn certain the link road from Ballaghderreen to the N4 proposed on here has just been flushed down the toilet!

I never knew of such a plan - could anyone elaborate on this?

It could make complete sense to go from the west of Ballaghadereen to the south of Boyle and therefore cut-out so much messing - especially around Termonbarry which is near the back of Longford and awkward to work around, especially with the Shannon and canals etc. The route would be considerably shorter too.

Regards!

123easy · 05-05-2010 10:54pm

Basically some people on here were suggesting that N5 should be connected to the N4 by a new road from Frenchpark to Carrick on Shannon

L1011 · 05-05-2010 10:56pm

123easy wrote: »

I would strongly argue that this scheme would not be going to tender if there was any intention to connect the N5 to the N4 back in Ballaghaderreen.

This scheme could only be justified if the Mayo traffic is routed along the existing N5 through Longford town and onto the N4. Without the Mayo traffic this scheme would be pointless.

E20 million construction cost for 2.6km aint cheap at all never mind EXTREMELY cheap as you say, and then add in land etc. Its got a bit more to it than straight 2.6km S2 i.e. 3 Structures and significant earthworks

I'd argue strongly against that. Its a scheme thats been planned for years, and is needed *now* whereas any N5 re-routing is a decade or more down the line. The NRA has history of building cheap temporary bypasses when they know a proper fix is immiment - Enfield, Edgesworthstown (will be redundant when the N4 Mullingar-Roosky scheme is done), etc.

Where on earth are you getting €20M from anyway? Doubt its going to cost anything close to that. The land was bought a long, long time ago.

123easy · 05-05-2010 10:58pm

MYOB wrote: »

I'd argue strongly against that. Its a scheme thats been planned for years, and is needed *now* whereas any N5 re-routing is a decade or more down the line. The NRA has history of building cheap temporary bypasses when they know a proper fix is immiment - Enfield, Edgesworthstown (will be redundant when the N4 Mullingar-Roosky scheme is done), etc.

Where on earth are you getting €20M from anyway? Doubt its going to cost anything close to that. The land was bought a long, long time ago.

The 20 mill is what they put on Etenders and that is Ex VAT.

I did qualify my first post with

123easy wrote: »

any time soon

MYOB wrote: »

The land was bought a long, long time ago.

How long in years is a long, long time ago?

L1011 · 05-05-2010 11:07pm

The CPO was published in, if memory serves me, 2005. Five years is an eternity in Irish road planning.

The 20M is an out-of-the-air figure to fill in a box on the form. It won't cost close to that.

123easy · 05-05-2010 11:10pm

MYOB wrote: »

The CPO was published in, if memory serves me, 2005. Five years is an eternity in Irish road planning.

The 20M is an out-of-the-air figure to fill in a box on the form. It won't cost close to that.

Land purchasing procedure cant be initiated until the CPO is approved by An Board which wasnt until 08. The treat and entry have to be served so the land could only be recently purchased if not purchased at all yet

There were no stuctures or significant earthworks on EdgeWstown bypass.

L1011 · 05-05-2010 11:15pm

123easy wrote: »

Land purchasing procedure cant be initiated until the CPO is approved by An Board which wasnt until 08.

There were no stuctures or significant earthworks on EdgeWstown bypass.

Land is bought, either way. Longford traffic will still be bad irrespective of how the N5 ends up, seeing as there are large tracts of land earmarked for industrial development out the Strokestown Road as is, so this road is going to be needed.

The Edgeworthstown bypass, which is longer, cost 14M inclusive of land prices in a boom. A shorter scheme in a deep recession with no remaining land costs won't cost 20M, irrespective of needing four structures. The Edgesworthstown bypass also does have structures, or else you'd fall in to the river...

As goes long-term plans, you might want to take note that this scheme is below the standard the NRA wants on the N5. Other future N5 schemes are intended to be reduced DC, so this is clearly not part of any long term plans.

123easy · 05-05-2010 11:22pm

MYOB wrote: »

you might want to take note that this scheme is below the standard the NRA wants on the N5. Other future N5 schemes are intended to be reduced DC, so this is clearly not part of any long term plans.

Incorrect! The N5 Ballaghderreen bypass 13km, next up for tender is S2 as is the Charlestown bypass. Yes, N5 Bohola Westport is 2+2 but theres more traffic using it.

anyways I think we will agree that it will be a long time before anything happens with section in between

L1011 · 06-05-2010 8:55am

123easy wrote: »

Incorrect! The N5 Ballaghderreen bypass 13km, next up for tender is S2 as is the Charlestown bypass. Yes, N5 Bohola Westport is 2+2 but theres more traffic using it.

anyways I think we will agree that it will be a long time before anything happens with section in between

The Charlestown BP is already built.

The Ballaghadereen BP is going to be build as Reduced D2 as the WS2 standard it was intended for does not exist on the spec books anymore.

SeanW · 06-05-2010 11:44am

The biggest priority for the N4/5 must be the Longford-Mullingar DC. Ideally this would be Type 1 - if not M-way, from Mullingar to Longford, it could be type 2 dual afterwards bypassing Newtownforbes which is a mess. The N5 Longford Bypass is needed in any case because traffic in the town is mental, if the N5 were to be realigned towards the North as some on here have suggested, the eventual N5 Longford Bypass could be reclassified N63, as there is a new industrial link road connecting the N63 and the current N5 which could also be trunked. Would have to get rid of the speed bumps though.

As to the actual realignment plan, it's been a while since I've travelled the N5 but I think the worst sections are West of Ballaghadeeran. So you would be talking about practically an entire rebuild.

123easy · 06-05-2010 1:30pm

MYOB wrote: »

The Charlestown BP is already built.

The Ballaghadereen BP is going to be build as Reduced D2 as the WS2 standard it was intended for does not exist on the spec books anymore.

Incorrect, its approved by An bord as s2.

L1011 · 06-05-2010 6:15pm

123easy wrote: »

Incorrect, its approved by An bord as s2.

So was the northern end of the M3 scheme. Being built as RD2
The Castleisland BP and Roosky BP were approved as S2+1. Being/were built as RD2.

RD2 uses the same land take and doesn't require any reapproval.

Chris_5339762 · 06-05-2010 8:09pm

NRA often applied to ABP to get an S2 approved plan reclassisified as 2+2. Happened with the TUam bypass.

123easy · 06-05-2010 8:18pm

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

NRA often applied to ABP to get an S2 approved plan reclassisified as 2+2. Happened with the TUam bypass.

No it didnt on that scheme . They had to reapply for 2+2 and go through the part 8 planning process not ABP

Neworder79 · 09-05-2010 10:44pm

Full page in todays Sunday Times about the state of the N5 and the major companies in the West who are warning of job losses to other countries if infrastructure isn't improved:

“There just doesn’t seem to be any realisation at government level that failure to address the N5 situation is putting jobs at risk,” he said. “We are competing with plants in other parts of the world where there is excellent infrastructure and we are at a serious competitive disadvantage. If any one of these companies go, they will not be replaced in this part of the world.”

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/ireland/article7120784.ece

Update: Minister is today denying the related road schemes have been delayed:
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/dempsey-denies-jobs-at-risk-over-bad-road-2173956.html

Sponge Bob · 12-05-2010 12:53am

Neworder79 wrote: »

Update: Minister is today denying the related road schemes have been delayed:
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/dempsey-denies-jobs-at-risk-over-bad-road-2173956.html

God Dempsey is such a brass necked liar

I was able to confirm the Ballaghadreen bypass will go ahead; you'll see physical construction during the course of the back end of this year. I would say it's (the N5) not postponed. It is ongoing"

Mind you so is that other FF sleeveen Finneran

http://archives.tcm.ie/roscommonherald/2007/01/31/story5391.asp

March 2007

Deputy Michael Finneran recently announced that €62m was secured for the N5 Ballaghaderren bypass.

“We have the figures for the 2007 NRA grants and the €62m for Ballaghaderreen is not mentioned on it. The only thing that has been allocated is €600,000 for the CPO stage,” said Cllr Kelly.

No tender has been published for the Ballaghadreen bypass. There shall be no construction in 2010 and that is that.....no matter ( or especially because of ) what Dempsey says.

nordydan · 17-05-2010 1:57pm

http://www.regdesign.com/PDF_Files/Project-Update-and-Clarification-13-05-10.pdf

The N5 Westport-Bohola scheme has been split, due to the rejection of the N26 scheme. And as such we are looking at basically the original Westport-Castlebar scheme again

Tech3 · 20-05-2010 2:22pm

It's also probably worth mentioning Dempsey has promised that a section of the N5 will start construction this year. I dont belive him mind you.

I was able to confirm the Ballaghadreen bypass will go ahead; you'll see physical construction during the course of the back end of this year. I would say it's (the N5) not postponed

link

Sponge Bob · 23-05-2010 2:00pm

tech2 wrote: »

It's also probably worth mentioning Dempsey has promised that a section of the N5 will start construction this year.

Fred Barry confirmed that Dempsey was lying although Fred will start a tender process for some roads this year in the hope of having a few quid next year. He will tender for Longford but not Ballaghadreen.

April 7th. Fred Barry explains situation

http://debates.oireachtas.ie/DDebate.aspx?F=TRJ20100407.xml&Page=2&Ex=278#N278

The current multi-annual capital plan allows for discretionary money next year which we hope to use to build some of the smaller bypasses that have been planned for some time, including Belturbet, Longford along the N5, Tralee and a couple of junctions on the southern ring-road in Cork. We will pursue the tendering process for these projects this year but will have to await next year’s budget before awarding contracts.

http://debates.oireachtas.ie/DDebate.aspx?F=TRJ20100407.xml&Page=2&Ex=287#N287

If the money is available, work will commence on the Ballaghaderreen bypass but it is not in our spending plan at present.

May 10. Dempsey Lying.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/dempsey-denies-jobs-at-risk-over-bad-road-2173956.html

"I was able to confirm the Ballaghadreen bypass will go ahead; you'll see physical construction during the course of the back end of this year.

Neworder79 · 24-05-2010 10:10am

MWR interviewed Cowen about the N5 when he was in Ballina on Friday. He said he is meeting the Mayo industrial group in July.

But he tried to downplay the importance of the road with his trademark waffle about the macro economic conditions and how their work on the economy is of more importance than infrastructure.

westtip · 31-05-2010 12:28pm

SeanW wrote: »

The biggest priority for the N4/5 must be the Longford-Mullingar DC. Ideally this would be Type 1 - if not M-way, from Mullingar to Longford, it could be type 2 dual afterwards bypassing Newtownforbes which is a mess. The N5 Longford Bypass is needed in any case because traffic in the town is mental, if the N5 were to be realigned towards the North as some on here have suggested, the eventual N5 Longford Bypass could be reclassified N63, as there is a new industrial link road connecting the N63 and the current N5 which could also be trunked. Would have to get rid of the speed bumps though.

As to the actual realignment plan, it's been a while since I've travelled the N5 but I think the worst sections are West of Ballaghadeeran. So you would be talking about practically an entire rebuild.

+1 absolutely right dc to Longford to Mullingar means once you get to Longford you are virtually in Dublin if its DC all the way. this must be the N5 priority. In fact I would go back to a post of mine sometime ago that DC to Carrick on Shannon and then a link road from Carrick to somewhere around Frenchpark is still the best execution for the N4/5 route.

Cool Mo D · 31-05-2010 5:45pm

To be honest, I don't believe that dual-carriageway is the best answer to improving roads.

At the moment, it's like there are two national road networks in Ireland - the improved motorway network, along with some new singe and dual carriageway, and the rest, which is mostly poor quality, badly surfaced and narrow.

What is needed is a few things - not just for the N4 and N5 but for every primary (and secondary) national road in the country.

- Bypass/realign past every single town and village on every national route with good quality single carriageway, and 2+2 dual where traffic requires.

- Widen and straighten vast amounts of road, with the goal being that every bit of the national road network is of a high enough standard to allow anyone to comfortably drive at 100 km/h without fear of losing their hubcaps to a pothole, scraping their car off bushes, or the road slowing down when two trucks approach each other closely.

- With straighter roads, safe overtaking should be possible along 90% of the road length, with few bends and sharp turns.

- Ban new direct access from private houses to all national roads outside of towns. villages, and cities, which should be bypassed anyway.

Now that the main interurbans (except for the PPPs currently planned) are almost done, bringing the less used parts of our network up to basic Western European standards should be the priority, rather than shorter, larger road building schemes.

Sponge Bob · 31-05-2010 6:12pm

Cool Mo D wrote: »

To be honest, I don't believe that dual-carriageway is the best answer to improving roads.

In general no. There are only six candidates for Dual after the PPPs that have been tendered

1. Cork Limerick
2. Sligo to Grange
3. Galway Bypass
4. Castlebar to Westpost
5. Adare Bypass
6. Longford - Mullingar OR Carrick On Shannon - Mullingar if westtips proposal on the N5 is accepted.

maybe another 30km of short sections on commuter routes outside Limerick Cork and Dublin. Otherwise our Motorway/HQDC network has been built or has tendered. It is done.

couple of 2+2 passing sections at 20km intervals on regionally important roads to shake off slow caravans etc and of course some decent laybys here and there, ideally along the 2+2 bits.

That's it.

StephenM_smc · 31-05-2010 7:08pm

Cool Mo D wrote: »

To be honest, I don't believe that dual-carriageway is the best answer to improving roads.

At the moment, it's like there are two national road networks in Ireland - the improved motorway network, along with some new singe and dual carriageway, and the rest, which is mostly poor quality, badly surfaced and narrow.

What is needed is a few things - not just for the N4 and N5 but for every primary (and secondary) national road in the country.

- Bypass/realign past every single town and village on every national route with good quality single carriageway, and 2+2 dual where traffic requires.

I don't believe that single carriageway regardless of build quality can solve all the problems. The section of single carriageway just before the Mullingar bypass is quite wide, but last night there seemed to be about a mile long group of cars backed up behind a slow driver at the front. Traffic conditions didn't allow for any significant amounts of overtaking. If they could at least narrow the lines (They are very wide) and put in 2+1 like they have on the N17 outside Knock/Claremorris it would at least have some notable positive effect. I think eventual upgrade to dual carriageway is required. There'd be a fair bit of work in changing the type 2 dual carriageway the East side of Mullingar to motorway if they wanted to make it a through run of Motorway
to Longford. Until they improve the Longford - Mullingar section I'll continue to leave the N5 at Tulsk and take the N61.

Sponge Bob · 31-05-2010 8:07pm

StephenM_smc wrote: »

I don't believe that single carriageway regardless of build quality can solve all the problems.

WS2 is a waste, the likes of the N5 Villa Carlos bypass should be retrofitted with 2+2 and future schemes built as S2 in the main.

Grade separated like Villa Carlos but S2.

Jayuu · 31-05-2010 10:23pm

We really don't need 2+2 in most places in Ireland but single carraigeway is not really acceptable on most main routes either.

I'm not a mad fan of 2+1 roads, mainly because of the poor central medians they put on them, but I think if its a choice between them and single carraigeway, I'd go for them anyday.

Sponge Bob · 31-05-2010 10:56pm

I think a lot of traffic is near towns. Were I to put stretches of 2+2 on the N5 it would be past Swinford past Charlestown and Past Ballaghadereen with Single S2 on the runs between those towns. On the N21 it would 2+2 be past Adare and past Newcastle West etc and on mountainy bits with S2 elsewhere. Offline of course.

But I would grade separate and LILO the offline S2 such s the western end of the N5 from Castlebar to the Roscommon border which is (after all) less than 20 years old and not allow any building on it like we did with the 1960s and 1970s build S2 which was ribbonised into ruination with B and Bs and Country and Western emporia.

Cool Mo D · 31-05-2010 11:00pm

Jayuu wrote: »

We really don't need 2+2 in most places in Ireland but single carraigeway is not really acceptable on most main routes either.

See, I think this attitude exists because of the very poor state of our normal single carriageway roads. With traffic levels of around 15,000 vehicles per day, a single carriage way is perfectly good, so long as it's wide, straight, and smooth, and doesn't have accesses and unprotected junctions scattered all over it. Most of the national roads like the N4 and N5 don't need dual carriageway, except in the vicinity of medium - large towns.

Most continental countries do just this with their long-distance single carriageways, and it's an education to drive on them, to see what can be done.

Especially things like giving towns ONE roundabout on the bypass instead of 7, and making use of priority T-junctions with traffic islands, and barriers to prevent crossovers at quieter junctions.

Sponge Bob · 31-05-2010 11:00pm

We did the numbers on this road in this thread. The N5 carries 5000 cars a day along much of its length and does not warrant 2+2 but rather a good S2 and selective 2+2 for overtaking at predictable intervals.

Jayuu · 01-06-2010 12:42pm

I would think that from a safety point of view its better to limit the number of times vehicles have to cross the median which is where 2+1 has an advantage over single carraigeway. Its no conincidence that our road death numbers have dropped as our road network improves.

And I would imagine the difference between providing single carraigeway or 2+1 is not huge nor would it require a large amount of extra land.

StephenM_smc · 01-06-2010 7:30pm

Sponge Bob wrote: »

WS2 is a waste, the likes of the N5 Villa Carlos bypass should be retrofitted with 2+2 and future schemes built as S2 in the main.

Grade separated like Villa Carlos but S2.

Where abouts is that section?

What were the plans for this section of road. It is the strangest part of the N5 with the very wide central reservation and two lanes on the westbound side.
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=&sll=53.766623,-8.199803&sspn=0.004204,0.017166&ie=UTF8&ll=53.766623,-8.197753&spn=0.004204,0.013078&t=h&z=17

L1011 · 01-06-2010 7:50pm

Villa Carlos = Charlestown.

SeanW · 20-06-2010 1:25pm

I was just thinking (seeing as I use the N4 from time to time) some of the single carriageway N4 is pretty wide. Would it be possible to (as a stopgap measure) convert parts of the existing N4 (and perhaps N5) to 2+2?

I'm talking about wide sections where you could simply run a cable barrier down the middle and repaint the road with 4 lanes instead of two wide lanes plus hard shoulder?

A lot of the problems on this part come from the peak loads of heavy traffic that can be slowed and turned into a convoy by one slow vehicle. Realistically there's little hope of any serious investment in the N4 and N5 corridors over the upcoming few years.

SeanW · 30-06-2010 3:45pm

N4 dual carriageway Mullingar Longford postponed indefinately.

http://www.longfordleader.ie/news/Anger-as-N4-road-plans.6389964.jp

I am disappointed, but not surprised. I saw this coming back when the programme for government was rejigged and the eco-whacko Greens got the road programme scrapped in its near entirity.

Thank you John Gormless. One more reason to get all the bums out in 2012.

Sponge Bob · 30-06-2010 4:09pm

SeanW wrote: »

N4 dual carriageway Mullingar Longford postponed indefinately.

And the NRA knew that when they published This Bullsh1t in May saying it was not cancelled

123easy · 30-06-2010 4:58pm

at least they are getting the N5 Bypass soon

nordydan · 12-07-2010 12:15pm

The finalised Mullingar-Roosky route corridor has been selected (as oppposed to the emerging preferred route):

http://www.wccprojectoffice.ie/new/download_cat.asp?cat=12&dlCat=N4M2L.

N4 Mullingar to Longford (Roosky) - Preferred Route Corridor Announced

Posted By: Serena O'Connor - 7 Jul 2010

Westmeath County Council and Longford County Council in partnership with the National Roads Authority have announced the publication of the Preferred Route Corridor for the N4 Mullingar to Longford (Roosky) Road Scheme. This scheme will upgrade approximately 52km of the N4 National Primary Route between the recently completed N4 Dromod-Roosky Bypass and the N4 Mullingar Bypass. The scheme is being designed to bypass Newtownforbes, Longford, Edgeworthstown, Rathowen and Ballinalack. It will improve road safety and will reduce travel times along this section of the N4.

Maps showing the preferred route corridor and the Route Corridor Selection Report will be on public display at offices of Longford County Council, Great Water Street, Longford and the Westmeath NRDO Project Office, Culleen Beg, Mullingar from 7th July 2010 to 6th August 2010.Information will also be available for viewing on the Longford County Council web site www.longfordcoco.ie

Those intending to undertake a development within the corridor of the Preferred Route in particular where an application for planning approval is required are advised to consult the Westmeath National Roads Design Office or Longford County Council.

The National Roads Authority have indicated that due to funding restrictions the detailed design of the scheme is suspended.

For further information regarding the scheme please contact any member of the N4 project team at the Westmeath NRDO.

N4 Mullingar to Longford (Roosky) Preferred Route Corridor Drawings

Also there is a Emerging Preferred Route Corridor Public Exhibition for the N4 Carrick-on-Shannon to Dromod Road Project over the next few days ( I cannot locate map online)

N4 Carrick-on-Shannon to Dromod Road Project
Emerging Preferred Route Corridor Public Exhibition

PRESS RELEASE
Leitrim County Council in conjunction with Roscommon County Council and the National Roads Authority (NRA) are holding a Public Consultation event in the Landmark Hotel from 2pm to 9pm on Tuesday 13th and Wednesday 14th July 2010. Information on the Emerging Preferred Route Corridor will be on display at the venue, where staff from Leitrim County Council, Roscommon National Road Design Office and Roughan & O’Donovan Consulting Engineers will be available to answer questions.
The public exhibitions will be followed by unmanned displays that will be available for inspection until 13th August 2010 at:
· Leitrim County Council Offices, Áras an Chontae, Carrick-on-Shannon, Co. Leitrim; and
· Roscommon County Council Area Office, Bridge Street, Boyle, Co. Roscommon.
A public consultation brochure and a questionnaire are available at the venues and your comments would be welcome.

Sponge Bob · 12-07-2010 2:38pm

nordydan wrote: »

Also there is a Emerging Preferred Route Corridor Public Exhibition for the N4 Carrick-on-Shannon to Dromod Road Project over the next few days ( I cannot locate map online)

N4 Carrick - Dromod, now you didn't exactly hunt for these Nords didya

Part One

http://www.leitrimcoco.ie/eng/Services_A-Z/Roads/National_Primary_Roads/N4_Carrick_Dromod_Bypass-Constraints_Report_Vol_1/

Part Two

http://www.leitrimcoco.ie/eng/Services_A-Z/Roads/National_Primary_Roads/N4_Carrick_Dromod_Bypass-Constraints_Report_Vol_2/

Master Map

http://www.leitrimcoco.ie/eng/Services_A-Z/Roads/National_Primary_Roads/N4_Carrick_Dromod_Bypass-Constraints_Report_Vol_2/CS-0101.pdf

Actually Interesting Bit

http://www.leitrimcoco.ie/eng/Services_A-Z/Roads/National_Primary_Roads/N4_Carrick_Dromod_Bypass-Constraints_Report_Vol_1/Constraints_Study_-_Volume_1_-_Chapters_1_-_5.pdf

nordydan · 12-07-2010 2:54pm

Sponge Bob wrote: »

N4 Carrick - Dromod, now you didn't exactly hunt for these Nords didya

I spotted them.

Where's the Emerging Preferred Route Corridor Map located in these publications?

If its not there I demand an apology...:D

Sponge Bob · 12-07-2010 4:01pm

nordydan wrote: »

I spotted them.

Where's the Emerging Preferred Route Corridor Map located in these publications?

If its not there I demand an apology...:D

It is there

Go into my link for part two, note that there are pages of drawings .

Page along to the series marked CS-06nn and the EPR is marked there with a dashed blue line and shall I make you coffee too ???

The EPR appears to be online along the southern half and offline around the north of Carrick along the northern half if that is any help.

nordydan · 12-07-2010 4:34pm

I think you're wrong on this one. I believe that marks out the original CoS bypass, I think this scheme is an amalgamation of this & Carrick to Dromod. And as such the EPR is not displayed. Time will tell, I'll email LCC and see what they have to say

L1011 · 12-07-2010 6:35pm

It SHOULD be online south of Carrick, the road from there to the Dromod bypass is all 1990s offline-built WS2 with little to no private accesses. Its even got a GSJ!

corm500 · 13-07-2010 7:34pm

A quick question on the emerging route corridor photo/drawing..the blue area that is above and below the prefered route (ie: not the road itself) goes over my folks house. Does this mean that they would want to purchase the house?

123easy · 13-07-2010 7:55pm

corm500 wrote: »

A quick question on the emerging route corridor photo/drawing..the blue area that is above and below the prefered route (ie: not the road itself) goes over my folks house. Does this mean that they would want to purchase the house?

The scheme is still at Route Selection stage so you cant really tell. The route will be tweaked and moved many many times right through prelim design so your house may or may not be affected. The problem is if your house or land is not acquired you will receive no financial compensation even if it is really close to the road. Sometimes in such cases they buy people out sometimes not depends on the particular circumstances.

Route Options:

http://www.leitrimcoco.ie/eng/Services_A-Z/Roads/National_Primary_Roads/CorridorMap.pdf

nordydan · 14-07-2010 8:17pm

Map here:

http://www.leitrimcoco.ie/eng/News/N4-Carrick-to-Dromod-Road-Project-Scheme-Objectives.pdf

Jayuu · 14-07-2010 9:14pm

nordydan wrote: »

Map here:

http://www.leitrimcoco.ie/eng/News/N4-Carrick-to-Dromod-Road-Project-Scheme-Objectives.pdf

Would seem to be a fairly sensible route in that it necessitates only one crossing on the Shannon and avoids the railway line. It would be great to see this project completed as Carrick-on-Shannon is a major bottleneck on the N4. Are there definite plans to build this or is it just a case of bringing it to the design stage?

Pete_Cavan · 14-08-2010 10:40am

After seeing the thread about the route selected for the N4 Mullingar to Longford, it got me thinking about the N4/5. I decided to resurrect this thread after being dormant for a long time as what I have to say would be more relavant to this thread that the N4 route selected thread.

Anyway, I what I think should happen is the N5 be upgraded to HQDC. The current N4 west of Longford town should remain as it is and instead the N3 should be extended to Sligo. From Longford the N5 should take a more direct route to Castlebar, going south of Knock airport. The N3 would be extended as HQDC bypassing south of Cavan town, continuing west, bypassing Carrick-on-shannon on the northern side of the town and onto Collooney to intersect with the M17.

There would be some reclassification of roads; the new M/N3 would go from Dublin to Sligo via Navan, Cavan and Carrick-on-shannon and existing N3 would become R roads, N4 would become an R road, new N5 would become N4 with M/N4 from Dublin to Castlebar via Mullingar and Longford. This would leave N5 free (for LOOR perhaps?).

This would have the advantage of providing greater quality road coverage of the country with less km of road (eg. all the main towns in north Connaught, south-west Ulster and north-west Leinster all served by two roads, as opposed to three), meaning cheaper construction and maintenance costs. It would also provide greater economic benefits, Cavan Leitrim and Sligo need better roads to develop but the current situation of two roads serving this region means it is too expensive to develop an adequate road network. A lot easier to justify one road serving the entire region. The road to Castlebar would take a route further south of the existing N5 making it shorter also.

Im not suggesting this should be done any time soon. After the M11, M17, M18, M20 and N25 are completed then the N3/N4 can be done. What do my esteemed colleagues of the Infrastructure forum think?

Sponge Bob · 14-08-2010 12:43pm

Not the maddest plan I ever heard of , running the M3 on a line roughly Kells > Virginia > Granard > Carrick and leaving the N4 completely as is but I defer to Westtips plans west of the Shannon..

Traffic levels on the N5 west of the shannon do not justify any dualling other than overtaking sections in spots. Neither do traffic levels on the N4 after the road splits form the N5.

Ren2k7 · 14-08-2010 1:56pm

I remember hearing a while back about a possible cross country route from sligo via cavan to dundalk. As someone who used the cavan to dundalk stretch a lot I can tell you it's badly needed.

Anyway, im wandering off topic. The N4 should be built to HQDC all the way to Sligo. Sligo may not be as big as the other urban areas but it does serve as an important economic hub for the north west region and would benefit greatly from having a motorway to Dublin.

As for the N5, build it to 2+2 standard and leave provision for upgrading to HQDC in the future.

Jayuu · 14-08-2010 1:56pm

I can't really agree with this idea. Given the upgrade of the A5 in the north to DC standard it would seem to me that it makes more sense that the M3 be routed to meet this north of Monaghan which would give Derry a proper DC quality link to Dublin and justify in some way the construction of the M3.

I still think the N4 should be upgraded to at least DC (and preferably HQDC) standard the whole way to Sligo. I think this could be justified on the basis on giving a decent route from the North-West to the capital.

As for the N5 while not saying that it doesn't need work I really wonder can a full HQDC N5 be justified. I think it could do with the following remedial work.
- The Longford bypass should be completed around the town to the N5.
- The road should be realigned to take Strokestown off the route. This really couldn't be that difficult give the way the road currently is.
- A similar bypass of Ballaghadereen should be built.
- A possible bypass of Castlebar although this might be harder to justify on traffic levels.

In addition there probably could be some other work required. I'll admit that its been a long while since I've driven the N5 so I can't really comment directly on it's current state but I think the above would be enough.

I also think that the N5 improvements could be done starting now even given our restricted financial situation as they wouldn't be massive costs involved. The N4 could be worked on in tandem.

The M3 suggestion is probably unlikely to ever happen although I think once the A5 has been upgraded in the north there will be pressure to match it on the Republic side.

N4/N5: How should they be developed?

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