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N4/N5: How should they be developed?

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭Irish and Proud


    I'd say:

    Motorway (M4 - standard dual) from Mullingar to West of Longford, S2 (N5 - 12.3m pavement) from Longford to West of Termonbarry to replace the current goat track (especially through Termonbarry), Reduced Motorway (M4 - 7.0m carriageways, 1.0m verge strips, 2.6m median with concrete barrier) from Longford to Collooney - 1.1m extra platform width (+2.1m on pavement, -1.0 on verges) on current 2+2 section at Roosky.

    Have to go now!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20 09bored.ie


    This is a silly idea i.e. using N4 to boyle It adds at least another 15km onto the journey for Mayo Dublin traffic.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    09bored.ie wrote: »
    This is a silly idea i.e. using N4 to boyle It adds at least another 15km onto the journey for Mayo Dublin traffic.

    The suggestion was for the N5 to go west at Frenchpark to join the N4 at Carrick - even if this extended the journey from say Castlebar to Dubln by a few Km it would mean the need for less new road pavement than putting in the Scramoge to Frenchpark section of the N5 and resolve the issue of going through all the archaeology around Tulsk; the potential for the N5 to cut into the N4 around Loch key forest park has also been floated out, we need to consider is it economically sound to develop both the N5 from Longford to Frenchpark and indeed the N4 from Longford to Carrick - the answer is probably not. Taking the N5 north from Frenchpark to Boyle probably is a bit out of the way, but it has got potential

    Put it this way if the N5 continued as a seamless road from Frenchpark to Carrick even as a WS2 adn then to Dublin via the N4 at Carrick, with the N4 from carrick being DC including a Carrick bypass - and added a few km to the total journey - what would prefer to do - take this route or keep trundling down the N5 to Longford. The choice of course would be there. I m pretty sure which route I would take - and I think I would use less fuel.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 66,442 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    09bored.ie wrote: »
    This is a silly idea i.e. using N4 to boyle It adds at least another 15km onto the journey for Mayo Dublin traffic.

    Seeing as the existing N5 can likely *never* be upgraded in parts, its not silly at all. A longer but higher quality, higher average speed route will take the same amount of time as a shorter quality boreen - as the N5 is in parts.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    MYOB wrote: »
    Seeing as the existing N5 can likely *never* be upgraded in parts, its not silly at all. A longer but higher quality, higher average speed route will take the same amount of time as a shorter quality boreen - as the N5 is in parts.

    And be much safer, the N5 is a death trap, be more fuel efficient therefore "greener" and probably be quicker - certainly quicker on this route mentioned.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 76 ✭✭ilovegermany


    Is the Mullingar to Longford stretch of the N4 planned as full Motorway or 2+2 like the Rooskey/Dromod scheme?

    Am I right in saying that the other schemes being proposed on the N4 (i.e. Carrick on Shannon bypass) will be 2+2 and not single carraigeway?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    Is the Mullingar to Longford stretch of the N4 planned as full Motorway or 2+2 like the Rooskey/Dromod scheme?

    Am I right in saying that the other schemes being proposed on the N4 (i.e. Carrick on Shannon bypass) will be 2+2 and not single carraigeway?

    I think 2+2 a la the Dromod Roosky scheme is the plan - although of course tis all a long way off, however like the inter urbans it will happen eventually - the castlebaldwin - collooney bit is planned as 2+2, but really we don't need full grade motorway all the way - 2+2 all the way to Sligo would make the journey a wheeze...and if the link road from Carrick to the N5 was put in place it would really open the routes to the west out big time...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20 09bored.ie


    westtip wrote: »
    .2

    I had recent correspondence with Fred Barry at the NRA about an alternative way of developing the N4/N5 road.
    I was quite astonished what Fred Barry CEO of the NRA had to say (very positive really)

    "You will be pleased to know that we have already been considering the possibility of improving the N4-N5 connection from near Frenchpark to Carrick on Shannon as an alternative to improving the N5 between Frenchpark and Scramoge, should the archaelogical issues on the N5 prove insurmountable"The letter goes on:

    "No decision will be made on this for some time, as the Carrick on Shannon and Ballaghadarreen Bypasses will be built before either the alternatives mentioned above"

    I don't know if this thinking has been in the public domain before -s.

    Well you not the only one that was astonished buddy!! I think your a fantasist living in cloud cookoo land as if Fred Barry would write to you! about such a scheme as this!! and as if Fred Barry would say should the archaelogical issues on the N5 prove insurmountable! laughable. What is more it would not be Fred Barry that would be sending the letter to you if such correspondence was entered into anyway.

    And whats more there is no such thing as WS2 as you mentioned above. It doesnt exist so you clearly haven't a clue what you are talking about.

    Bottom line the traffic will not like your route and will not be attracted to it. Although it is most unlikely either scheme will be built until many years from now.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,123 ✭✭✭stepbar


    09bored.ie wrote: »

    And whats more there is no such thing as WS2 as you mentioned above. It doesnt exist so you clearly haven't a clue what you are talking about.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_two


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20 09bored.ie


    The NRA no longer allow the use of WS2. This has come in over a year ago. Depending on the projected AADT at design year one must use RS2, S2, 2+2, type 1 etc. Refer to TD9

    One reason is WS2 has been abandoned is that if finished to particularly high quality, with grade separated interchanges, it has been shown to lead to a false sense of security and more dangerous driving due to the carriageways not being separated


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  • Registered Users Posts: 368 ✭✭Roryhy


    09bored.ie wrote: »
    Well you not the only one that was astonished buddy!! I think your a fantasist living in cloud cookoo land as if Fred Barry would write to you! about such a scheme as this!! and as if Fred Barry would say should the archaelogical issues on the N5 prove insurmountable! laughable. What is more it would not be Fred Barry that would be sending the letter to you if such correspondence was entered into anyway.

    And whats more there is no such thing as WS2 as you mentioned above. It doesnt exist so you clearly haven't a clue what you are talking about.

    Bottom line the traffic will not like your route and will not be attracted to it. Although it is most unlikely either scheme will be built until many years from now.

    From the NRA itself- page 7
    http://www.nra.ie/Publications/DownloadableDocumentation/RoadDesignConstruction/file,3620,en.pdf

    "WS:2- Two-lane wide single carriageway, normally with lane widths of 5.0m"

    And buddy, there's no need to take out your bad day on people who are informing us about correspondence they've had, the NRA aren't so busy these days that it's entirely beyond belief that Fred Barry would respond to an e-mail.


  • Registered Users Posts: 368 ✭✭Roryhy


    09bored.ie wrote: »
    The NRA no longer allow the use of WS2. This has come in over a year ago. Depending on the projected AADT at opening year one must use RS2, S2, 2+2, type 1 etc. Refer to TD9

    One reason is WS2 has been abandoned is that if finished to particularly high quality, with grade separated interchanges, it has been shown to lead to a false sense of security and more dangerous driving due to the carriageways not being separated

    Of course it still exists, they won't build it anymore but i can assure you that existing schemes wont just evaporate.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20 09bored.ie


    Well obviously they are not going to rip up all the WS2 in the country justbecause the standards change , you fool. To even make such a statement is just beyond the beyonds especially in the current economic climate:rolleyes: Thanks for your reassurances but you dont sound like a very reassuring type of person!!!! ''Evaporate''



    Westtit was proposing the use of a WS2 cross section between frenchpark and carrick on shannon and it was in that context I meant that WS2 does not exist quite simply as it does not exist as it is not in the current TD9 simple as.


  • Registered Users Posts: 368 ✭✭Roryhy


    Its easy to be a smartass, i know a 3 year old that has mastered it. I think i know 2 of them now. Responding like a grownup and not taking cheap digs is something you might want to work on. We are all here to talk and learn and you getting personal with me and another poster above doesn't help anybody. Of all the posts you have made it looks like 75% of them are outright negative towards others. It is possible to put your opinion across without confronting or offending others you know.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20 09bored.ie


    more like your a sulking 3 year old with a humour deficiency

    Email Fred ''it's entirely beyond belief that he would respond to you''. might even give you a few sweets to stop sulking


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 66,442 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    09bored.ie wrote: »
    Bottom line the traffic will not like your route and will not be attracted to it.

    It took less than ten years of road signs and 'the green line on the map' sending people via Loughrea rather than Athenry to break the habits of centuries on Dublin-Galway. The roads were equivalent quality then.

    Change the signage, ensure the speed limits are appropriate that sat navs route people that way and people will use the route, end of.


    I like the way you're accusing someone else of 'sulking' when you've stormed in here a huff screaming and shouting.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20 09bored.ie


    Then why did they decide to abandon that silly loughrea idea and straight line the M6 from Ballinasloe to Athenry to Galway? Simple answer really, TRAFFIC

    Again another silly post that has been proven wrong by the route chosen for the soon to be opened M6 GEB.


    also its quite funny you say it took less than 10 years as if 10 years was like a short period of time!


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 66,442 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    09bored.ie wrote: »
    Then why did they decide to abandon that silly loughrea idea and straight line the M6 from Ballinasloe to Athenry to Galway? Simple answer really, they got it wrong when they did what you said above!!!

    Again another silly post that has been proven wrong by the route chosen for the soon to be opened M6 G2BE

    I don't see how them rerouting the motorway back towards Athenry has anything, at all, to do with my post? :confused:

    My comment was that traffic will, in general, go where they're told to. That is all. You've posted something completely redundant (forgivable enough) but then put in a pointless attack. Can't see you lasting long for this forum, to be honest.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 66,442 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    09bored.ie wrote: »
    Then why did they decide to abandon that silly loughrea idea and straight line the M6 from Ballinasloe to Athenry to Galway? Simple answer really, TRAFFIC

    Again another silly post that has been proven wrong by the route chosen for the soon to be opened M6 G2BE

    Ah, you've edited your post. I'm not editing my first reply though.

    No, they moved the route back to pass Athenry because its more direct. Absolutely no Galway to Dublin traffic goes via Athenry because the Loughrea route is now far higher quality, and as a result, quicker.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20 09bored.ie


    ''Absolutely no Galway to Dublin traffic goes via Athenry because the Loughrea route is now far higher quality, and as a result, quicker.''

    We shall see whose right on Dec 17th! Did you ever here of the M6??


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  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 66,442 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    09bored.ie wrote: »
    ''Absolutely no Galway to Dublin traffic goes via Athenry because the Loughrea route is now far higher quality, and as a result, quicker.''

    We shall see whose right on Dec 17th! Did you ever here of the M6??

    I'm talking about the present. You have just previously tried to insist they routed the M6 that way due to traffic presently going that route.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20 09bored.ie


    MYOB wrote: »
    I'm talking about the present. You have just previously tried to insist they routed the M6 that way due to traffic presently going that route.


    You (i suppose ill have to refrain from using words such as idiot or fool),What are you on about? the M6 route was chosen as it was the shortestish distance between galway and ballinasloe.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20 09bored.ie


    I must admit I have been quite successful in my aim of taking this thread completely off track and dumping it there just like what should happen to the silly idea which was brought up a good while back. Jeez i cant even remember what it was!


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 66,442 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    09bored.ie wrote: »
    You (i suppose ill have to refrain from using words such as idiot or fool),What are you on about? the M6 route was chosen as it was the shortestish distance between galway and ballinasloe.

    In post 45 you claimed that the M6 was routed via Athenry due to traffic using that route already. You wrote it a few minutes ago, you should know what you wrote - although as you revised your post completely, it may be a bit hard.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20 09bored.ie


    I did no such think, You misunderstood or perhaps were not capable to understanding what I said.

    It is so obvious to anyone with half a brain the route from galway to ballinaSLOW was chosen to amongst other thinhgs to minimise the distance and thereby decrease journey times and had nothing to do with what was or was not using the rat run.

    Really i do wonder how you could make such inference s


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 66,442 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    09bored.ie wrote: »
    Really i do wonder how you could make such inference s

    Because you wrote exactly that. "I do wonder" how you could try to claim you didn't write something when its blatantly clear that you did.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20 09bored.ie


    post it up so, if you cant please desist from making yourself look like a clown and conform to the rules of logic:rolleyes:


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 66,442 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    09bored.ie wrote: »
    post it up so, if you cant please desist from making yourself look like a clown and conform to the rules of logic:rolleyes:

    Post 45 on this thread, as I have quoted. You stated it was rerouted via Athenry for reasons of traffic in extremely clear words.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 66,442 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    09bored.ie wrote: »
    also its quite funny you say it took less than 10 years as if 10 years was like a short period of time!

    10 years is a very short time in the history of roads. There are 1700s maps which show the route from Dublin to Galway as being the standard Maynooth, Kinnegad, Athlone, Ballinasloe, Athenry, Oranmore that it was until the N routes were defined in the 1970s.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20 09bored.ie


    Like anyone that would say that is well i don't know?


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