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N4/N5: How should they be developed?

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,468 BluntGuy


    09bored.ie wrote: »
    Well obviously they are not going to rip up all the WS2 in the country justbecause the standards change , you fool. To even make such a statement is just beyond the beyonds especially in the current economic climate Thanks for your reassurances but you dont sound like a very reassuring type of person!!!! ''Evaporate''

    Stop acting the muppet.

    This isn't the only post I'm calling you up on. Unncessarily abrasive posting isn't tolerated. Debate = fine. Insults = not fine.

    Attack the post, not the poster. And familiarize yourself with the boards.ie rules and the infrastructure charter before posting again.

    This is the only warning you're getting.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 59,887 Mod ✭✭✭✭ L1011


    09bored.ie wrote: »
    Like anyone that would say that is well i don't know?

    Remove that 'quote' or that posts reported.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20 ✭✭✭ 09bored.ie


    My apologies, but i was astounded at how someone could suggest evaporating all the WS2 in Ireland because the NRA changed standards.

    My apologies if I appear to insult the poor fool that posted that


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20 ✭✭✭ 09bored.ie


    MYOB wrote: »
    Remove that 'quote' or that posts reported. you stupid plonker go away

    Now whose been insulting


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,468 BluntGuy


    09bored.ie wrote: »
    My apologies if I appear to insult the poor fool that posted that

    You just did it again.

    Calling someone a "fool" is still calling them a "fool" no matter what you sellotape onto it. We don't call people "fools" on this forum. Sure, argue that their opinion is foolish (and be prepared to back it up), but don't personally insult them. Got it?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,468 BluntGuy


    09board.ie has been banned for three weeks from posting in this forum.

    That is all.


  • Registered Users Posts: 82 ✭✭✭ MPB


    Not sure i would be in favor of the proposal to go through either Carrick or Boyle to adjoin the N4. That proposal seems to give the N4 dual carriageway most of the way to sligo (I'm basing this oly on what I've read in the forum and dont know the in's and out's of the NRA's plans or Government Dept's plan's). Anyway if this were to happen I think it would be in the interest of the Sligo people and the N4 more than those in mayo and on the N5. Why? because for one, you have built a better toad to Sligo for most of the journey tog et there,2 you have added distance to the trip to Mayo via Carrick or Boyle on this new proposal. So those travelling from the east to the west and mayo in particular for a weekend away would develop the opinion "well mayo is that much further now and the road to Sligo is pretty much dual carriage way or certinaly excellent quality single carriageway most of the way so it would be quicker to get to Sligo and therefore may choose Sligo over a weekend in Mayo". Basically what I am saying it could have a very negative impact on tourism in Mayo from the point it would then be further to get there and Sligo being closer would look more attractive. I mean face it who wants to spend longer than necessary on the road. Mayo being a very scenic county has lots to offer. I remeber 12 years ago and TD's coming to the door looking for votes for the general election and I asked them when the N5 was going to be done. I was told in the next 5 years. thats 12 years ago and the N5 is done as far as Roscommon but no further. From Ballaghadereen to Strokestown is a nightmare of a drive. I'm all for the shortest route possible within reason and reason in this case being that the N5 is done as far as Ballaghadereen and needs to be joined up with the section from Strokestown to Ballaghadereen.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,281 ✭✭✭ westtip


    09bored.ie wrote: »
    Well you not the only one that was astonished buddy!! I think your a fantasist living in cloud cookoo land as if Fred Barry would write to you! about such a scheme as this!! and as if Fred Barry would say should the archaelogical issues on the N5 prove insurmountable! laughable. What is more it would not be Fred Barry that would be sending the letter to you if such correspondence was entered into anyway.

    And whats more there is no such thing as WS2 as you mentioned above. It doesnt exist so you clearly haven't a clue what you are talking about.

    Bottom line the traffic will not like your route and will not be attracted to it. Although it is most unlikely either scheme will be built until many years from now.

    I am really not sure what has got your goat pal. I have read some of your posts following this and you really do need to calm down. I can either scan the letter with personal details removed, and post it up, or you can if you want under the freedom of information act obtain a copy of the letter from the NRA, or drop a line to Fred yourself. In other words pal, check out the facts.

    Why on earth anyone would choose to make a letter up is beyond me, as said if you want a copy of the letter I will scan and post it for you, I think most of the posters on this forum appreciate ideas and debate being put up by any other fellow poster in the interests of intelligent civilised debate.

    My understanding of WS2 is the type of wide single carriageway used on many of a our national roads, (N4 around Boyle for example) which personally I think would suffice for the link road I propose and the NRA are considering as an alternative option;

    As for your last sentence above about people not taking the route - well that is your opinion - which you are of course entitled to - If you would rather use the old N5 you may, frankly my dear I don't give a dam.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,281 ✭✭✭ westtip


    MPB wrote: »
    Not sure i would be in favor of the proposal to go through either Carrick or Boyle to adjoin the N4. That proposal seems to give the N4 dual carriageway most of the way to sligo (I'm basing this oly on what I've read in the forum and dont know the in's and out's of the NRA's plans or Government Dept's plan's). Anyway if this were to happen I think it would be in the interest of the Sligo people and the N4 more than those in mayo and on the N5. Why? because for one, you have built a better toad to Sligo for most of the journey tog et there,2 you have added distance to the trip to Mayo via Carrick or Boyle on this new proposal. So those travelling from the east to the west and mayo in particular for a weekend away would develop the opinion "well mayo is that much further now and the road to Sligo is pretty much dual carriage way or certinaly excellent quality single carriageway most of the way so it would be quicker to get to Sligo and therefore may choose Sligo over a weekend in Mayo". Basically what I am saying it could have a very negative impact on tourism in Mayo from the point it would then be further to get there and Sligo being closer would look more attractive. I mean face it who wants to spend longer than necessary on the road. Mayo being a very scenic county has lots to offer. I remeber 12 years ago and TD's coming to the door looking for votes for the general election and I asked them when the N5 was going to be done. I was told in the next 5 years. thats 12 years ago and the N5 is done as far as Roscommon but no further. From Ballaghadereen to Strokestown is a nightmare of a drive. I'm all for the shortest route possible within reason and reason in this case being that the N5 is done as far as Ballaghadereen and needs to be joined up with the section from Strokestown to Ballaghadereen.


    MPB - the real problem for the NRA though will be all that archaeology which has been discussed on this thread and is recognised by the NRA as a big issue; The NRA have to be pragmatic and realistic, the alternative N5 route yes will add a few km to the total journey but will make the total journey a lot safer, a lot faster and will cost less as less total new road pavement will be necessary, if the N5 northern connector to the N4 was 2+2 it would be a plus if it connected in to the Ballaghadereen bypass (not sure if this is going to be 2+2 or wide single need to check that on the NRA website);

    I don't think the arguments about it having a negative impact on Mayo tourism are entirely valid, and actually whilst you may have a point I don't think its strong enough argument against this alternative route - and as mentioned above in another post if something positive was made of the reasoning for this route - it may actually aid Roscommon tourism if they could make something of all that archaelogy as a protected area worth visiting. There are several ways of looking at every argument!


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 Sponge Bob


    MPB, try paragraphs next time willya.

    I would like to state ( at the risk of getting howled down) that there is no justification for Dual of any sort save where the N5 and N4 come together , currently in Longford. And yet the land take for a WS2 is about the same as a Dual like the section around Dromod . Something gotta give somewhere .

    By adopting the 'Tip' plan the fact is that there is then a justification to dual as far as Carrick on Shannon which is (as the crow flies) within 20 miles of Mayo . It is most unlikely that the Dual stretch will not be 2+2 motorway at 120kph.

    This means that M50 to Carrick on Shannon will be an hour and a bit , say an hour and 5 minutes or an hour and 10 to which adding a 30km lep over north roscommon will mean that the eastern tip of Mayo is an hour and a half from the M50 , reliably , all year .

    Furthermore motorways are restricted unlike the current N5 project where you may encounter tractors and 40mph dodderers who won't pull in :(

    I therefore feel that Mayo people and Sligo people should join together in lobbying for a motorway to Carrick rather than a motorway to Longford , between you there is amuch better case than there is for an individual N4 and an individual N5 .

    I am now inclining strongly towards the opinions of others in this thread about the archaeology around Tulsk , I was not aware of the scale of the 'complex' before this thread started .

    Tourists see Motorways on maps and think of day tripping , once they see N roads they see hassle and do not make the trip .


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,281 ✭✭✭ westtip


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    MPB, try paragraphs next time willya.


    I therefore feel that Mayo people and Sligo people should join together in lobbying for a motorway to Carrick rather than a motorway to Longford , between you there is amuch better case than there is for an individual N4 and an individual N5 .

    I am now inclining strongly towards the opinions of others in this thread about the archaeology around Tulsk , I was not aware of the scale of the 'complex' before this thread started .

    .


    Yes Sponge excellent thinking - If the idea can be sold to TDs councillors and lobbyists in the three counties most effected: Roscommon, Sligo and Mayo, then we may have some life in this one yet.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 Sponge Bob


    Generally if I look at a map with a view to 'day tripping' or quick 'weekending' I see how far the motorway goes and calculate how long I can get to the general area . Much tourism is now short break tourism ...not dragging a caravan from Arbour Hill to Achill in an epic seven hour trip like it recently was ....to remain there for 2 weeks :(

    If I see that Carrick is an hour and a bit from the M50 I will take my chances with the journey, if I think it will take 3 hours to Strokestown ( as now on a bank holiday) I will look instead at Galway where I will be west of the city from the M50 ...in 3 hours ...by next easter . One of those hours will be spent traversing the city but even then !!!!

    I shall leave Dublin at 5pm and wish be most of the way to my destination by 8pm , I want to get a pint before the pub closes :D

    So that is how I read the map and plan my getaway , I cannot be the only one . I would do the same from Munich or Milan where i can hire a car for a day or two.


  • Registered Users Posts: 82 ✭✭✭ MPB


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    MPB, try paragraphs next time willya.

    I would like to state ( at the risk of getting howled down) that there is no justification for Dual of any sort save where the N5 and N4 come together , currently in Longford. And yet the land take for a WS2 is about the same as a Dual like the section around Dromod . Something gotta give somewhere .

    By adopting the 'Tip' plan the fact is that there is then a justification to dual as far as Carrick on Shannon which is (as the crow flies) within 20 miles of Mayo . It is most unlikely that the Dual stretch will not be 2+2 motorway at 120kph.

    This means that M50 to Carrick on Shannon will be an hour and a bit , say an hour and 5 minutes or an hour and 10 to which adding a 30km lep over north roscommon will mean that the eastern tip of Mayo is an hour and a half from the M50 , reliably , all year .

    Furthermore motorways are restricted unlike the current N5 project where you may encounter tractors and 40mph dodderers who won't pull in :(

    I therefore feel that Mayo people and Sligo people should join together in lobbying for a motorway to Carrick rather than a motorway to Longford , between you there is amuch better case than there is for an individual N4 and an individual N5 .

    I am now inclining strongly towards the opinions of others in this thread about the archaeology around Tulsk , I was not aware of the scale of the 'complex' before this thread started .

    Tourists see Motorways on maps and think of day tripping , once they see N roads they see hassle and do not make the trip .


    Ok so with paragraphs lol

    I'm not gonna howl but just to come back on a few points.

    1. I did say I ddnt know the NRA's plans whether they were planning single carriageway or dual carriageway. both have been suggested throught the forum so I'm not saying it should be dual carriageway. I would be happy with either as long as its better than whats currently there and is as direct as possible.

    2. You mention as the crow flies. Adopting that theory between Mayo and Dublin, Carrick aint exactly in the path. I realise the issues with the archaeology around Tulsk but surely theres some way around it without having to go as far as Carrick. I dont know how much work has been done on investigating the in's and out's of it and have seen the map in the forum and it does look pretty big but surely theres a more viable option.

    3. The eastern tip of Mayo is an awful long ways from the Western tip of Mayo. Its one big county as I'm sure you know. So whilst you may make the eastern tip in a pretty decent time theres a good hour more at best to the far west and I think I'm cutting it fine with an hour.

    4. As for the chances of having an encounter with tractors and 40mph dodderers who won't pull in. your dead right there's bloody loads of them and its the height of ignorance them holding their position they do on the road sometimes holding up lines of traffic behind them.

    5. As for your last point on the tourists and day tripping. Thats not what I meant although I suppose it is part of it. I was talking about the Irish mostly and as you know Westport is a huge tourist town and many go their for stags, hen's, a couple of days away midweek or weekend or whatever. I have done it myself a few times with work business and on leisure break's etc. The trouble at present being it takes so long to get there from Dublin. Now granted that a new road whatever the route will mean traffic can travel faster but the distance is further if you had to go to Carrick to adjoin the N5. it would put me off the new route and I'd just go the old way and I could see many others doing it too. Its a bit like the M4 and the old N4 going into Dublin. See how much traffic uses the old N4 every day. Now I know its for a difrferent reason (to avoid paying the toll) but I see a similar thing happening with the N5 if the distance is further on the new route.

    My point is that any new road to anywhere in the country should really be as the crow flies as much as possible.


    Westtip to come back on your point

    "I don't think the arguments about it having a negative impact on Mayo tourism are entirely valid, and actually whilst you may have a point I don't think its strong enough argument against this alternative route - and as mentioned above in another post if something positive was made of the reasoning for this route - it may actually aid Roscommon tourism if they could make something of all that archaelogy as a protected area worth visiting. There are several ways of looking at every argument! "

    The point was, if its further to get there then why not go somewhere closer and I think that is the way many would look at it. I think its worth mentioning that Mayo hasn't got a lot to offer in terms of industry other than the Gas project, which is a whole other issue and one I'm not gonna get into, there are lots of other forums covering that one. So tourism is a very viable industry in Mayo and in my opinion is something that would be threatened by this plan to reroute the N5 via Carrick. As you said there are several ways of looking at every argument. This is just mine.

    All in all I am just for the most direct route possible and dont want to travel further than necessary. What I have said above is not meant to be of offence to anyone and I hope it hasnt been interpreted as so. I'm just merely stating my opinion.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 Sponge Bob


    I was think of Westport TBH it is the prime weekend destination . Best I ever manage from Dublin was 3 hours tearing the arse out of it and no caravan . Typical is 4-5 hours on a friday , need to get it nearer 3 without tearing the arse out of it .

    This means more Motorway and that will never be justified between Longford and Frenchpark on the N5 , were it shared with the N4 to Carrick the aggregate traffic Longford > Carrick may justify it .

    Only about 5000 cars a day travel through Frenchpark

    It is 9000 in Rosskey ( just before bypass last year so look at 2008 and 2007 stats)

    Add them up MPB and you are over 10,000 and can start to make a case . Now look at the Mullingar Bypass .

    5000 is not justification for wide single even .


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,281 ✭✭✭ westtip


    MPB wrote: »
    Ok so with paragraphs lol

    . What I have said above is not meant to be of offence to anyone and I hope it hasnt been interpreted as so. I'm just merely stating my opinion.

    I think your post and previous one caused absolutely no offence, you are expressing a view and it is a valid one, however, if you take say Ballina, my nearest town, A lot of folk I know from there driving to Dublin head up the N59 to Ballisodare before heading down the much better N4 to Dublin - its a much longer way to go - but the state of the N26 and the N5 make it a safer and quicker route; my point is lets have one fast escape route west from Dublin and good connector roads to it. Cost will be an issue in any event and it seems that looking at the northern connector option it means less road to be built.

    Sponge is right when he talks about drivetimes, the critical issue is not the distance but the drivetime, add a few miles to your journey and take two hours off it on a Friday or Sunday night? - somehow I can't see the old N5 being the preferred route. Build this route to the west and it opens up Mayo and Sligo to the weekend trippers and apart from tourists the main flow of traffic on these routes at the weekends is people heading home.

    Sponge thanks for those links to the traffic volumes - it was looking at those that first prompted me to contact the NRA about this issue, and then thinking about the practical archaelogy issues what is the real solution to the N4/5 really quickly unfolds; it just makes economic and practical sense.


  • Registered Users Posts: 82 ✭✭✭ MPB


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    I was think of Westport TBH it is the prime weekend destination . Best I ever manage from Dublin was 3 hours tearing the arse out of it and no caravan . Typical is 4-5 hours on a friday , need to get it nearer 3 without tearing the arse out of it .

    This means more Motorway and that will never be justified between Longford and Frenchpark on the N5 , were it shared with the N4 to Carrick the aggregate traffic Longford > Carrick may justify it .

    Only about 5000 cars a day travel through Frenchpark

    It is 9000 in Rosskey ( just before bypass last year so look at 2008 and 2007 stats)

    Add them up MPB and you are over 10,000 and can start to make a case . Now look at the Mullingar Bypass .

    5000 is not justification for wide single even .


    Fair point. Didnt think of it like that.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 Sponge Bob


    Another point made by westtip was that an intitiative should be supported by a number of local authorities . Currently Mayo and Roscommon priorities are at variance with those of Leitrim and Sligo .

    Westtips scheme provides a basic justification for bringing motorway all the way through Longford and South Leitrim and just into the NE corner of Roscommon .

    I do not believe that traffic volumes Carrick - Sligo or Carrick - Westport warrant any further motorway but but this idea should be supported by Roscommon Sligo and Mayo as well as Leitrim Longford and Donegal if it is to get momentum for planning and design and funding in what is the very distant future given the budgetary situation in this country .

    .


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 Sponge Bob


    One other item. Mayo Roads are designing a bloody massive project , the Westport - Bohola Dual Carriageway ( all 40 km of it) . This got €2.5m of NRA money in 2009 alone .

    http://www.regdesign.com/Projects/N5%20Westport-Bohola%20Road%20Project.html

    I personally think that this clouds matters , what is important now is the 70km from Mullingar to Carrick together with the 35km from Carrick to the West of Ballaghadereen and which would service all of north Connacht . The road from the Mayo border to Castlebar is pretty adequate and would not frighten anyone .

    I think the goat tracks across the midlands have effectively divided the country over the years. When one had an opportunity to travel across the country ( of a weekend) in the past one then had to negotiate a string of Abbeyleixes and Mountraths and Longfords and Moates and ( Sponge Bob clenches his buttocks at the very thought of it ) the Drumsna/Jamestown double bridges for most of the 1990s for Gods sake :(

    Once you take the goat track bits out of the equation between Galway and the M50 , together with Ballinasloe Enfield Kinnegad Loughrea and Moate , the difference on a friday evening is about 3 hours .

    In census 2006 (data ) the population of Galway was 210,000 persons . The population of all of Sligo Leitrim Roscommon and Mayo is 255,000 persons of whom only a few in south Roscommon have benefited from the M6 .

    Adding in Longford and South Donegal ( south of the Blue Stacks) and you get over 300,000 in the catchment .

    With a Motorway to Carrick it would be possible to get M50 to Donegal town in 3 hours and Donegal Town would be 50 miles from the end of such a motorway ( via Sligo) where Cooloney would be 20 miles . I take all the usual points about heavy traffic but that last 50 miles should be do-able in 1.5 hours .

    And for those who remember Jamestown and its narrow streets ......do remember it was originally build by by the English to keep the Irish out and then taken over by Cromwell to keep the Irish penned into Mayo and Roscommon , let's not do that to ourselves...shall we ?? :D

    http://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/coclare/images/cromwellmap_big.jpg


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,281 ✭✭✭ westtip


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    One other item. Mayo Roads are designing a bloody massive project , the Westport - Bohola Dual Carriageway ( all 40 km of it) . This got €2.5m of NRA money in 2009 alone .

    http://www.regdesign.com/Projects/N5%20Westport-Bohola%20Road%20Project.html


    Sponge 2.9 million won't build anything but it is money wasted on a project that is highly unlikely to happen and the big question is - is DC actually needed on this route? I am going to re-contact the NRA on this N4/N5 northern connector and see if I can push them on clearer thinking on this matter - we can debate it all day long on this thread, but I think we are coming to some conclusions that the idea I originally expounded actually does present a real chance to properly develop the N5 route in conjunction with the N4 as DC all the way to Carrick on Shannon and the northern connector to Ballaghdareen from Carrick presents a real opportunity for Sligo/Mayo/Roscommon and Leitrim County Councils to work with the NRA on a better solution for the west and north west. Development of these routes will all be post the openings of the Inter urbans in any event - and despite the lack of money at the moment - there is a recognition that capital projects cannot come to a grinding halt, in the long term these projects will have to be done, but I guess patience is the game.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 Sponge Bob


    westtip wrote: »
    in the long term these projects will have to be done, but I guess patience is the game.

    In the long term it is also important to note that the MIUs were built OUT form Dublin . This would be an MIU from Kinnegad to Carrick ...once finished .

    Therefore , other than Ballaghadereen , it is more likely that the Mullingar - Carrick gets built first AND in 2 projects AND starting with Longford- Mullingar and that is where the heavy lobbying should start by all the NW local authorities .


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,277 ✭✭✭ serfboard


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    starting with Longford- Mullingar

    Agree. It would be easier to justify on a traffic numbers basis as well.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,281 ✭✭✭ westtip


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    In the long term it is also important to note that the MIUs were built OUT form Dublin . This would be an MIU from Kinnegad to Carrick ...once finished .

    Therefore , other than Ballaghadereen , it is more likely that the Mullingar - Carrick gets built first AND in 2 projects AND starting with Longford- Mullingar and that is where the heavy lobbying should start by all the NW local authorities .

    Sponge I also think the development of the N4 to Carrick will happen before the N5 in any event, but yes the councils in the west need to have a joint strategy on what they want to see happen; Really the NRA has to play a leadership role with the MOT - and say this is how it is going to happen - The councils who are all broke no longer have any clout on the decision making process, if central government is broke then local government is well and truly down the swannee - some of them are hard pressed to pay their staff these days. Leadership needs to come from the main agency - the NRA who are supposed to be the specialist employed for this function (developing road infrastructure) and from the Ministers office. I firmly believe the councils are just talking shops with no real sway on the matter at all.....


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,735 Irish and Proud


    Just saw pictures of the Charlestown Bypass and it looks weird - 13.3m pavement (7.3m c/w) - the Hard Shoulders @ 3.0m looks so massive that if one was colour blind - he/she would take it for an S4. The design specs confirm same - something that I though was an error before seeing the photos. Bear in mind that the old S2 standard was 13.5m (7.5m c/w - 3.0m h/s), while its successor was 12.3m (7.3m c/w - 2.5m h/s). The Charlestown Bypass is (@13.3m) a hybrid of the 2 - funny enough, the cross section was to be 12.5m (7.5m c/w - 2.5 h/s) - the lesser hybrid option!

    Weird!


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,281 ✭✭✭ westtip


    Just saw pictures of the Charlestown Bypass and it looks weird - 13.3m pavement (7.3m c/w) - the Hard Shoulders @ 3.0m looks so massive that if one was colour blind - he/she would take it for an S4. The design specs confirm same - something that I though was an error before seeing the photos. Bear in mind that the old S2 standard was 13.5m (7.5m c/w - 3.0m h/s), while its successor was 12.3m (7.3m c/w - 2.5m h/s). The Charlestown Bypass is (@13.3m) a hybrid of the 2 - funny enough, the cross section was to be 12.5m (7.5m c/w - 2.5 h/s) - the lesser hybrid option!

    Weird!

    Yes it should have been made 2+2 like the Dromod/Roosky scheme but there we have it - its bloody frustrating when you hit this good section of road and pratts still insist on driving with their drivers side wheel about a foot from the middle of the road, leaving enough room for an artic on the inside, they don't use their rear view mirrors (ever) and refuse to pull in, the hard shoulder on this section should be removed and made into an extra lane. What is even more dangerous when (usually women around 5.00pm) decide to take their power walk on this kind of new national road - the Claremorris Knock bypass on the N17 is notorious for this - which of course actually makes pulling into the hard shoulder to let someone pass somewhat of a risky affair - why these walkers would want to use national road hard shoulders as pavements is truly beyond comprehension - it says something of our lack of planning in terms of pedestrian and cycling facilities on our national roads - but that could be the subject of an entirely new thread, mind you it also says something about the intelligence or lack of of those choosing these roads for an evening stroll, this design of road is actually bloody dangerous for pedestrians.

    If anyone can ever get some photos of this wonderful leisure activity it would be interesting to see them posted.

    Your comment though has a significant bearing on what is to be done with the N4/5, the N4 needs to be DC with no pedestrians on it to Carrick, and the N5 if it takes the northern swing route needs to have a safe area for pedestrians and cyclists.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10 ✭✭✭ benralph


    i always thought the same about combining the N4 and N5 roads, instead of buildind two separate roads taking into account they carry lowish traffic & are so near,

    but what about the stretch of N5 built back in (2004 i think), between strokestown & cloondara, surely this road will remain the N5 after the millions that were spent constructing the road!


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,281 ✭✭✭ westtip


    benralph wrote: »
    i always thought the same about combining the N4 and N5 roads, instead of buildind two separate roads taking into account they carry lowish traffic & are so near,

    but what about the stretch of N5 built back in (2004 i think), between strokestown & cloondara, surely this road will remain the N5 after the millions that were spent constructing the road!

    Accept your point but we live in different times - in reality the most economic and road efficient route should have been considered from day one - but considering what's required between Scramoge and Frenchpark a change of mind to the northern connector from Carrick to Frenchpark may yet be the ultimate solution.

    The traffic volumes argument is the clearest one I have seen never mind the archaeology issues at Tulsk.

    Spongebob gave links to the road traffic volumes in this post: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=62899681&postcount=72

    Says it all really.


  • Registered Users Posts: 379 ✭✭ Someday


    Any word on this ? I use this road now once per week from Dublin, fine for 50 miles ! On the NRA site it states

    "Current Project Phase: Constraints Study "

    Usually, how many years would you be out here ?:rolleyes:

    N4 Mullingar to Longford
    Local Authority: Westmeath County Council
    Start County: Longford
    End County: Westmeath
    Description: Upgrade of approximately 50 km of the N4 National Primary road between Mullingar and Tomisky, Co. Longford. The scheme will link the N4 Mullingar Bypass (Dual Carraigeway) to the newly opened N4 Dromod-Roosky Type 2 Dual Carriageway scheme.
    Mainline Length (km): 50

    Current Project Phase: Constraints Study


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,082 Chris_533976


    I'd be surprised if it isnt still at the Constraints Study level for the next 10 years.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 59,887 Mod ✭✭✭✭ L1011


    Its actually a stage beyond that, route selection. NRA site is wrong.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 379 ✭✭ Someday


    General Timeframe ?:confused:


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