Bullfighting-not so bad (relatively)

bluto63 · 17-06-2010 04:41PM

bonerm wrote: »

Google suggests it might be from the show "Glee"?

IF so then the poster is rightfully ashamed. Viewing that show is more shameful that killing some evil whales (not Dolphins), which is what I believe the Faroe Islanders (not Danes specifically) are doing in those pix (which are currently blocked for me).

I wouldn't have realised it was from Glee. I saw it on a t shirt about 5 years ago. So it's not like they came up with it

Oh, and yea, the whale hunting is bad alright. The difference between our meat industry and this is that this is glorified and turned into an event. I'm not a fan of killing for sport so I'd be against this too

Misty Chaos · 17-06-2010 04:59PM

When I saw the first image of the sea being turned red I thought it was photoshopped!

As gruesome and inhumane as this is, there are a lot worse atrocities being committed on on our fellow man all over the world, things that I don't need to go into.

As much as I care for the rights of animals, human rights are placed higher in my list priorities than that of animals. Sort that out first, THEN we'll talk about animal rights. In some cases, animals have more rights than some people and that is not right.

Just my thoughts.

Zombienosh · 17-06-2010 05:54PM

The word TRADITION gets used alot when people are trying to justify terrible ignorant acts.

rovert · 17-06-2010 05:57PM

AlcoholicA wrote: »

The word TRADITION gets used alot when people are trying to justify terrible ignorant acts.

see: The Wolfe Tones

TPD · 17-06-2010 06:04PM

Am I the only one that laughed at the comments under the article? How easily people get riled up.

The article provides one side of the story, I'd wait for the other side before condemning it.

17-06-2010 06:11PM

Kent Brockman wrote: »

http://bluepanjeet.net/2008/11/22/1594/the-horrible-whale-and-dolphin-massacre-tradition-of-faroe-islands-in-denmark/

This is sick.:(

I skipped all the preachy shite and just looked at the pictures.. Looks pretty cool. No different to an abattoir in my book.

bijapos · 18-06-2010 10:50AM

ScumLord wrote: »

Like Makikomi said this is just untrue. Imagination is a particularly unique human trait. Also these animals are transported regularly they'd be well used to it and fairly trusting of the hand that feeds them.

Its not untrue, animals sense things better than we do. Two examples:
1. I lived for a while overlooking a yard where a butcher has a small slaughterhouse, usually slaughtering two bullocks per week. They came out of a trailer and it was a serious job to get them into the slaughterhouse, roaring their heads off, they knew what was coming.
2. My mothers Westie had an operation done on her by a vet in Longford, a couple of years later the dog (blinded by a fight with a fox) had panic attacks when she was taken into the room where she was operated on. She was taken down once or twice a year for a trim, always had to be done in the other room. Vet said its normal, they can sense where they previously experienced pain.

That said, its an interesting link to the slaughterhouse designer, did not know about that and its good to hear.

This is more bull****, perhaps true in other counties but Irish animals are treated very well.

Go to a chicken farm, I did 6 years ago, cant eat chicken since unless its guaranteed free range. Pig farms are the same, its all well documented.

Dont be at yourself · 18-06-2010 12:00PM

Who gives a fiddlers, really? Nobody sheds a tear for the pig that's going to provide my ham sandwich at lunch time, the fly I swatted this morning or the bacteria I killed washing my hands.

People go ooh and aah over dolphins and whales because they're cute and because of the myth that most of them are threatened with extinction. It's hypocritical - dolphins and whales have no more a right to live or die than any other animal.

bijapos wrote:

Go to a chicken farm, I did 6 years ago, cant eat chicken since unless its guaranteed free range. Pig farms are the same, its all well documented.

Go to a free range chicken farm. http://www.upc-online.org/freerange.html

Deus Ex Machina · 18-06-2010 12:19PM

The trait of empathy was selected in homo sapiens because it was beneficial in the struggle towards perpetuating one's genetic lineage. I think that all inter species feelings of empathy are nothing more than a misfiring of this our natural empathetic drives, whether it is vegatarianism or feeling sorrow for these slaughtered dolphins.

ScumLord · 18-06-2010 01:10PM

bijapos wrote: »

Its not untrue, animals sense things better than we do. Two examples:
1. I lived for a while overlooking a yard where a butcher has a small slaughterhouse, usually slaughtering two bullocks per week. They came out of a trailer and it was a serious job to get them into the slaughterhouse, roaring their heads off, they knew what was coming.
2. My mothers Westie had an operation done on her by a vet in Longford, a couple of years later the dog (blinded by a fight with a fox) had panic attacks when she was taken into the room where she was operated on. She was taken down once or twice a year for a trim, always had to be done in the other room. Vet said its normal, they can sense where they previously experienced pain.

That said, its an interesting link to the slaughterhouse designer, did not know about that and its good to hear.

Our dog hated going to the vet to, even though every time she went she came out better than when they went in. Our vet was fairly heavy handed, more used to cattle. If animals have a bad experience they'll remember it but they can't construct a possible outcome in their mind they don't process that mental capacity. They only know what they've already experienced.

Go to a chicken farm, I did 6 years ago, cant eat chicken since unless its guaranteed free range. Pig farms are the same, its all well documented.

I live next to one, their disgusting examples of intensive farming abusing animals. I hate intensive farming. Cattle and sheep have it good in this country, chickens and pigs don't. If they're farmed properly they can have a great life being raised for slaughter. We fulfil all their needs and wants then one day they die as humanly as possible. It's still the best deal of any predator on the planet. A hell of a allot better than getting eaten alive by wolfs.

Sykk · 18-06-2010 01:13PM

rovert wrote: »

Different culture you cant judge.

What a pig ignorant thing to say.

If a country started chopping off the heads of kids every July for the yearly culture, does that make it okay?

Different culture you cant judge.

Andrew Flexing · 18-06-2010 01:18PM

ScumLord wrote: »

Like Makikomi said this is just untrue. Imagination is a particularly unique human trait. Also these animals are transported regularly they'd be well used to it and fairly trusting of the hand that feeds them.

This is more bull****, perhaps true in other counties but Irish animals are treated very well.

Untrue. Studies have shown a significant increase in stress levels in livestock en route to slaughter houses from farms. The same goes for while inside the slughterhouse. While I agree somewhat that the livestock mightn't know why they are at the abbitoirs, their stress levels are significantly higher than before they left the farms.

Mal-Adjusted · 18-06-2010 01:21PM

the keen edge wrote: »

Use to be like that here in Galway, till we got a KFC.

hold up! where's the KFC in Galway!!?:eek:

ScumLord · 18-06-2010 01:29PM

Andrew Flexing wrote: »

Untrue. Studies have shown a significant increase in stress levels in livestock en route to slaughter houses from farms. The same goes for while inside the slughterhouse. While I agree somewhat that the livestock mightn't know why they are at the abbitoirs, their stress levels are significantly higher than before they left the farms.

So the cows know somehow that they're going to a slaughter house? Somewhere they've never been before.

They're transported a few times in their lives, why would they jump to such a conclusion? I'd believe their stress levels go up every time they are transported but I don't believe for one second they can either translate what the farmers are saying or have some sort of psychic abilities.

Kent Brockman · 18-06-2010 01:32PM

rovert wrote: »

Different culture you cant judge.

lol when did you start trolling:rolleyes:

It just seems so barbaric and violent. They are being hacked to death in and among other half dead and hacked creatures.

I know I couldnt attack and maim/slaughter an innocent animal/mammal with those tools/weapons that they are using.
The ones doing it are obviously getting a kick out of it too.....

Andrew Flexing · 20-06-2010 03:54AM

ScumLord wrote: »

So the cows know somehow that they're going to a slaughter house? Somewhere they've never been before.

They're transported a few times in their lives, why would they jump to such a conclusion? I'd believe their stress levels go up every time they are transported but I don't believe for one second they can either translate what the farmers are saying or have some sort of psychic abilities.

I never said that they knew they were going to an abbatoir, just that cortisol levels are significantly raised in the process of transportation. I'll leave that "psychic ability" theory of yours to your uniqely human imagination. My post in response to a inaccurate statement by yourself regarding welfare issues surrounding the transport, you said they are "well used to it" and it's not an issue. Well, it is...

read the below link for more...

http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=UkTkMXsifOgC&oi=fnd&pg=PA151&dq=livestock+stress+levels+in+transport&ots=AoEhGzxMZ2&sig=VLvXa3-330iwrncl3ZbsAW4s3ZA#v=onepage&q=livestock%20stress%20levels%20in%20transport&f=false

ScumLord · 20-06-2010 04:22PM

Andrew Flexing wrote: »

I never said that they knew they were going to an abbatoir, just that cortisol levels are significantly raised in the process of transportation.

But that doesn't mean anything on it's own, I get stressed using public transport too. Are they more stressed than they would be just trying to be the first one to the feeding trough? Stress is all part of life, saying they're slightly stressed during a slightly stressing event doesn't mean much as with these type of animals once the stressing event is over they go back to normal fairly quickly. They won't stay stressed.

Andrew Flexing · 21-06-2010 11:23PM

ScumLord wrote: »

But that doesn't mean anything on it's own, I get stressed using public transport too. Are they more stressed than they would be just trying to be the first one to the feeding trough? Stress is all part of life, saying they're slightly stressed during a slightly stressing event doesn't mean much as with these type of animals once the stressing event is over they go back to normal fairly quickly. They won't stay stressed.

This is getting off the point ofthe OP but you are wrong again. Extreme stress sometimes experienced by livestock on transport truck can cause a reduced quality in meat (that's how stresses they can get!) and some animals die in the trucks too. That's a bit more stressful than your public transport...!

ScumLord · 21-06-2010 11:33PM

Andrew Flexing wrote: »

This is getting off the point ofthe OP but you are wrong again. Extreme stress sometimes experienced by livestock on transport truck can cause a reduced quality in meat (that's how stresses they can get!) and some animals die in the trucks too. That's a bit more stressful than your public transport...!

I think your talking about high intensity farms though which isn't common at all in Ireland. Irish cattle have a fairly good life if cows where really that stressed by the actions of the farmers that look after them they wouldn't run to them (and only them) when they come into the field.

I can see this happen out my window at work, I can see the cattle being transported on a daily basis through town, in most cases it's just one or two bovine (more than likely bulls I suppose) and they look relaxed, although being a bull I suppose he has some idea what he'll be doing on arrival.

I've seen battery hens rammed into a van too there's a chicken farm in town as well, those animals look horrible and tormented that's why I do my damnedest to avoid eating cheap chicken.

Farmers in Ireland do care about there animals I've seen them almost come to tears when telling me that one of their sheep was killed by foxes. I just don't think people that care that much about their animals are going to want to see them suffer.

BraziliaNZ · 21-06-2010 11:54PM

As far as humanity's crimes towards the planet and wildlife go, this is pretty tame, really tame in fact, compared to something like the BP spill, overfishing, destruction of natural habitats to facilitate consumerism etc. We're f*cked, because the world has limited resources and consumerism demands constant - well - consumption of resources! Simple as that, a few whales dying should be the least of our worries.

recylingbin · 21-06-2010 11:57PM

bijapos wrote: »

Go into any abbatoir in this country and look the cattle, pigs or sheep in the eye when they come off a truck. They know whats going on, its no different to what the Faroe islanders are doing. They do it in the open, we do it behind a wall. No difference I'm afraid.

For that matter look at how pigs or chickens are raised here, also inhumane imo. And how does that fish in the can of mackerel die? Yep they suffocate. Not fair either.

(and no I'm not vegetarian either)

go back to Vegetaria, hippy.

ScumLord · 22-06-2010 12:00AM

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

As far as humanity's crimes towards the planet and wildlife go, this is pretty tame, really tame in fact, compared to something like the BP spill, overfishing, destruction of natural habitats to facilitate consumerism etc. We're f*cked, because the world has limited resources and consumerism demands constant - well - consumption of resources! Simple as that, a few whales dying should be the least of our worries.

I'd rate the abuse of the domestic dogs gene pool as another really high crime against nature. We're breeding deformities into them that makes them unable to look after themselves just because we like the look of deformed miniature dogs. It's horrible what we're doing to our best friend.

Giselle · 22-06-2010 12:14AM

rovert wrote: »

Different culture you cant judge.

Tell that to my stomach, it turned when I clicked that link.

Barbaric.

BraziliaNZ · 22-06-2010 12:17AM

ScumLord wrote: »

I'd rate the abuse of the domestic dogs gene pool as another really high crime against nature. We're breeding deformities into them that makes them unable to look after themselves just because we like the look of deformed miniature dogs. It's horrible what we're doing to our best friend.

Well dogs haven't really been part of nature for centuries really! Far too domesticated at this stage.

ScumLord · 22-06-2010 12:22AM

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

Well dogs haven't really been part of nature for centuries really! Far too domesticated at this stage.

They are part of nature as are we, they've just found a better way of surviving than running around a fields trying to take down an animal 4 times their size like those dumbass wolves. Much better to have the top predator on the planet wait on you hand and foot.

BraziliaNZ · 22-06-2010 12:26AM

ScumLord wrote: »

They are part of nature as are we, they've just found a better way of surviving than running around a fields trying to take down an animal 4 times their size like those dumbass wolves. Much better to have the top predator on the planet wait on you hand and foot.

Good point, I used to envy my dog so much on wintery school mornings, when I'm being forced to go sit in a room listening to teachers while dog just lay on the ground huddled near a radiator. Lucky for dogs that they're so adorable!

bytey · 22-06-2010 12:43AM

Misty Choas wrote: »

As much as I care for the rights of animals, human rights are placed higher in my list priorities than that of animals. Sort that out first, THEN we'll talk about animal rights. In some cases, animals have more rights than some people and that is not right.

.

well guess what - its starts with animals .

if we cant look after animal rights - we havent a snowballs chance of looking after human rights .

in any case , this planet doesnt deserve to have us here - the majority of our work to date has been nothing but death , destruction and pollution .

thats all we are good for , nice work , 'god'

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 22-06-2010 12:53AM

liah wrote: »

I'd like to know the reasons for the slaughter prior to condemning it.

In the north of Canada, seal hunting is very controversial, as you can imagine. Protests arise every single time this tradition takes place, driven by people who do not understand the tradition or the reasons for the tradition to exist.

The seal slaughter is a very necessary evil in order for the ecosystem to remain balanced. They run rampant and overpopulate and destroy their environment if allowed to develop without being culled. It's also got its roots in ancient Inuit and Native American traditions, where they were the main (surprisingly nutritious) food supply and in some villages still are.

Hunting in general in Canada is much the same. Populations need to be culled and kept in check for the long-term survival of not only the species being hunted, but the other species in the environment it lives in. Protests take place constantly against it by people who don't understand the delicate balance that needs to be kept to ensure the world keeps turning.

Now, I know very little of the Faroe Island whale thing, but I'd imagine its quite similar to the seal hunt. On the surface it's quite a barbaric practice, but perhaps it would be better to educate oneself on the reasons behind it before automatically assuming it is unnecessary and horrible.

Somebody who has a clue

Well said Liah. It's not often you find people in society who know what they are talking about

Scumlord, your posts are making very little sense.

You say:

ScumLord wrote: »

Like Makikomi said this is just untrue. Imagination is a particularly unique human trait. Also these animals are transported regularly they'd be well used to it and fairly trusting of the hand that feeds them.

But then say:

ScumLord wrote: »

So the cows know somehow that they're going to a slaughter house? Somewhere they've never been before.

They're transported a few times in their lives, why would they jump to such a conclusion? I'd believe their stress levels go up every time they are transported but I don't believe for one second they can either translate what the farmers are saying or have some sort of psychic abilities.

So which is it?

Also, ever get a gut feeling? Just wondering...

Next:

ScumLord wrote: »

Our dog hated going to the vet to, even though every time she went she came out better than when they went in. Our vet was fairly heavy handed, more used to cattle. If animals have a bad experience they'll remember it but they can't construct a possible outcome in their mind they don't process that mental capacity. They only know what they've already experienced.

Then:

I can see this happen out my window at work, I can see the cattle being transported on a daily basis through town, in most cases it's just one or two bovine (more than likely bulls I suppose) and they look relaxed, although being a bull I suppose he has some idea what he'll be doing on arrival.

Which is it?

ScumLord wrote: »

But that doesn't mean anything on it's own, I get stressed using public transport too. Are they more stressed than they would be just trying to be the first one to the feeding trough? Stress is all part of life, saying they're slightly stressed during a slightly stressing event doesn't mean much as with these type of animals once the stressing event is over they go back to normal fairly quickly. They won't stay stressed.

Are you a cow psychologist? How do you know they won't stay stressed?

ScumLord wrote: »

I think your talking about high intensity farms though which isn't common at all in Ireland. Irish cattle have a fairly good life if cows where really that stressed by the actions of the farmers that look after them they wouldn't run to them (and only them) when they come into the field.

You don't know much about cattle do you? You claim that the cattle run towards the farmer, and only him? Well that's an outright lie, as cattle are curious animals they will run to anybody who enters the field. Sheep will do the opposite, unless you go in with a bucket of whatever it is they eat and even then they won't go to you straight away.

I've seen battery hens rammed into a van too there's a chicken farm in town as well, those animals look horrible and tormented that's why I do my damnedest to avoid eating cheap chicken.

Farmers in Ireland do care about there animals I've seen them almost come to tears when telling me that one of their sheep was killed by foxes. I just don't think people that care that much about their animals are going to want to see them suffer.

I would think he was crying about the few hundred euro the sheep is worth to him. Also, you claim all farmers caring for their animals because of this one guy who nearly cried about a dead sheep???

ScumLord wrote: »

They are part of nature as are we, they've just found a better way of surviving than running around a fields trying to take down an animal 4 times their size like those dumbass wolves. Much better to have the top predator on the planet wait on you hand and foot.

You sure it wasn't humans that got the idea to take on dogs as pets and to tame them? There are also plenty of wild dogs in ecosystems around the world, here we have foxes. Wolves and other animals rarely eat anything alive, like many pack animals, they go for the throat, the animal will hold on to that throat until it is dead. Wolves are also pretty smart. The dogs we have now didn't find a better way of surviving, we liked them, took them and tamed them.

This is more bull****, perhaps true in other counties but Irish animals are treated very well.

This is laughable. For the summer holidays, take a job in an abitoir

See how well they are treated in there

AlcoholicA wrote: »

**** tradition, these people are backwards.

:rolleyes:

AlcoholicA wrote: »

The word TRADITION gets used alot when people are trying to justify terrible ignorant acts.

:rolleyes::rolleyes: See liahs post.

What's funny about this is the lunatics posting after the pictures in the link. Also the lunatic who made the captions about the pictures. They even took a swipe at the photographer, equating him to Adolf Hitler...

One poster asked Denmark how it would like to be bombed... seriously wtf?

Also, it's one part of Denmark, a bit like people on the Aran Islands having a controversial tradition and everyone in Ireland getting stick for it...

The PC brigade will ruin the world

raah! · 22-06-2010 01:12AM

Why is there this assumption that an animal automatically prefers death to suffering?

I think the source of this would be the lack of cries of pain in a dead animal, which is less bothersome to people. We can at least say that while they are alive, death is the last thing an animal wants (or perhaps second last, next to loss of reproductive organs), no matter how pleasant a life it's been having.

Bullfighting is indeed not so bad, just that the animal suffers as a result of the pleasure people derive from seeing it die.

Chimichangas · 22-06-2010 01:28AM

yeah i dont think bull fighting is so bad. but i think i have to disagree with suffocating mackeral to put in a tin, as mentioned in an earlier post. thats not right.

Bullfighting-not so bad (relatively)

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