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[US/IRL] 6x17/18 - "The End" (2.5 Hour Series Finale) [** SPOILERS WITHIN **]

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Comments

  • #242
    Foxtrol
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,298 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    9
    Leeby wrote: »
    I thought a few episodes back, they went to check out the plane and it was rigged with explosives no?? Did I imagine that?

    Flocke took out the explosives, rigged them with a timer & put them in Jacks backpack to bring on the sub.


  • #243
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,790 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    Leeby wrote: »
    I thought a few episodes back, they went to check out the plane and it was rigged with explosives no?? Did I imagine that?

    No you didn't.
    Also what happened the plane after it took off.
    The whole thing was very rushed IMO.


  • #244
    requiem1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 611 ✭✭✭requiem1


    7
    qz wrote: »
    Presumably, they all went to a shared "afterlife", shared due to their time together on the island. Some had already left the island (Claire, Kate, Sawyer etc.) some hadn't (Jack, Hurley, Ben etc.), but they all met up in purgatory and those who were ready to "leave" went on to an afterlife.
    leedsfan88 wrote: »
    Everybody in the church were dead and the place was constructed in order for everybody to met up for one last time before moving on into the "afterlife"

    Ah me sees, i thought that but i thought they wouldn't have gone with the whole purgatory thing even though it wasn't in the way the theories had presumed. So in essence the "parallel world" they were living on wasn't a "parallel world" (in the string theory sense) it was just a limbo for them? Nice i think i can live with that ending, now where have they moved onto:D


  • #245
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 22,785 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The end was the greatest pile of crap I've watched or rather endured in a long time.

    It was like they ran out of money [possible given the credit crunch..] and rushed the ending.

    For those who haven't watched it yet,it's a huge anti climax.


  • #246
    The Rook
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 437 ✭✭The Rook


    9
    Not sure if "purgatory" is the right name for the Flash Sideways timeline ... Christian said it was a place they had created themselves before they were ready to move on....

    Loved the episode, loved the series, loved the show. Sure there are lots of questions left unanswered, but hey, at least it gives us plenty to talk about.


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  • #247
    Foxtrol
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,298 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    9
    koolkid wrote: »
    No you didn't.
    Also what happened the plane after it took off.
    The whole thing was very rushed IMO.

    Explosives explained above. I dont think anyone would really want to see another flash forward of those on the plane arriving back to civilisation. That would be more of a Lord of the Rings ending, where they attempt to tie up every characters loose end.


  • #248
    Handsome Bob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,905 ✭✭✭✭Handsome Bob


    7
    koolkid wrote: »
    No you didn't.
    Also what happened the plane after it took off.
    The whole thing was very rushed IMO.

    True on the explosives. I was expecting Frank, Miles and Richard to go boom once the plane was "turned on" for want of a better word.

    As for what happens, Jack sees the plane fly over him just as he's dying. After that, well the purgatory reveal simply suggests that those in the plane made it home and lived out the rest of their days.


  • #249
    Necronomicon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,589 ✭✭✭✭Necronomicon


    I'm still gathering my thoughts and will be for quite some time, but major LOL at the 'We are experiencing a technical difficulty' on Sky two seconds into the episode :D


  • #250
    requiem1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 611 ✭✭✭requiem1


    7
    Foxtrol wrote: »
    Explosives explained above. I dont think anyone would really want to see another flash forward of those on the plane arriving back to civilisation. That would be more of a Lord of the Rings ending, where they attempt to tie up every characters loose end.

    So can we presume that those on the plane went back to a life off the island?


  • #251
    Spiritoftheseventies
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,082 ✭✭✭✭Spiritoftheseventies


    6
    Foxtrol wrote: »
    I really doubt that the writers ever planned to answer ever possible mythological question that came about in the show. They set out to tell the story of a group of people who crashed on an island, who's story arc played a part in a much larger history of an island. I'm sure they could have come up with a back story for a moving, time travelling island but it was just the setting for, to paraphrase Christian, "the most important parts of these individuals lives".

    You can put this up as being disingenuous by the writers but it is science fiction. Shows such as the Wire are easier to write as the audience doesnt need to be shown the background to Baltimore, they take it at face value. To be honest right up until the scene with Jack & Christian I was still hoping that all the answers would come but in that & the final scene I "let go" and realised that it was the characters that I'd grown to love more than the answers.
    In all honesty wasn't expecting answers to all the various sub plots. But I think these sub plots ultimately got in the way of the ending.
    The Dharma inititiative was never fully explained for a start while the time travel was just way off.
    Still dont know who the man in the cabin was in "man behind the curtain" and I think this was one of the key incidents.
    Main gripe being that there were u neccessary plots introduced into the script and they were never satisfactorily explained.
    Again the fight between Jack and MIB was borrowed from what I can see from Lord of the Rings so really dont what the writers were doing re a resolution.
    Seems as if they hit a wall in the end. Some of the action scenes were good but having invested a lot of time with this programme was expecting a better ending.


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  • #252
    requiem1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 611 ✭✭✭requiem1


    7
    Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »
    In all honesty wasn't expecting answers to all the various sub plots. But I think these sub plots ultimately got in th end of the ending.
    The Dharma inititiative was never fully explained for a start while the time travel was just way off.
    Still dont know who the man in the cabin was in "man behind the curtain" and I think this was one of the key incidents.
    Main gripe being that there were un neccessary plots introduced into the script and they were never satisfactorily explained.
    Again the fight between Jack and MIB was borrowed from what I can see from Lord of the Rings so really dont what the writers were doing re a resolution.
    Seems as if they hit a wall in the end. Some of the action scenes were good but having invested a lot of time with this programme was expecting a better ending.

    yeah I never got why they introduce the time travelling thing and also they spent so much time on the string theory stuff but then ditched it for the finale. Maybe they're saving they string theory and time travelling plotlines for fringe


  • #253
    leedsfan88
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 437 ✭✭leedsfan88


    9
    requiem1 wrote: »
    So can we presume that those on the plane went back to a life off the island?

    Yes and lived their lives out and died, and Hugo and Ben stayed and protected the island for a long time just like Jacob and Richard


  • #254
    Star Lord
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,120 ✭✭✭✭Star Lord


    9
    Necronomicon wrote: »
    I'm still gathering my thoughts and will be for quite some time, but major LOL at the 'We are experiencing a technical difficulty' on Sky two seconds into the episode :D

    Guess you could say they 'LOST' the signal...
    horatio460.jpg


  • #255
    leedsfan88
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 437 ✭✭leedsfan88


    9
    DamoElDiablo wrote: »
    Guess you could say they 'LOST' the signal...
    horatio460.jpg

    LOL:D:D:D


  • #256
    prinz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    9
    Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »
    The Dharma inititiative was never fully explained for a start while the time travel was just way off..

    Bunch of hippies and scientists who found a cool island to do experiments undisturbed. Pretty much it.
    Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »
    Still dont know who the man in the cabin was in "man behind the curtain" and I think this was one of the key incidents..

    MIB masquerading as Jacob.


  • #257
    FutureGuy
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 15,255 Mod ✭✭✭✭FutureGuy


    9
    Interesting that Jack died in the same position that he woke up in at the very first episode. Or did he wake up at all...maybe the whole series was in his head in the few minutes before he died.

    Dun dun duuuuuuuunnnnnn!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    EDIT: No I don't believe this happened.


  • #258
    Foxtrol
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,298 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    9
    Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »
    In all honesty wasn't expecting answers to all the various sub plots. But I think these sub plots ultimately got in the way of the ending.
    The Dharma inititiative was never fully explained for a start while the time travel was just way off.
    Still dont know who the man in the cabin was in "man behind the curtain" and I think this was one of the key incidents.
    Main gripe being that there were u neccessary plots introduced into the script and they were never satisfactorily explained.
    Again the fight between Jack and MIB was borrowed from what I can see from Lord of the Rings so really dont what the writers were doing re a resolution.
    Seems as if they hit a wall in the end. Some of the action scenes were good but having invested a lot of time with this programme was expecting a better ending.

    Dharma like the island was a plot tool to tell the story of the Losties. Taking the Wire as an example again (just as it seems to be held in very high esteem for being "planned out"). An important part of that story are the drugs gangs and the police but the writers never go into every facet of their history just the parts that the main characters deal with. I see Dharma being used in the same way.

    Time Travel was needed to get Locke to the point of killing himself and it was also used to tell parts of the background story such as Dharma, Roussou, the Others and Widmore.

    I do agree with you on the cabin. I think that was an arc related to MIB (re: ash circle) but for whatever reason they couldnt properly fit it into the eventual story.


  • #259
    Star Lord
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,120 ✭✭✭✭Star Lord


    9
    prinz wrote: »
    MIB masquerading as Jacob.
    I always thought it looked like Locke, (With hair) which would point to MIB again...
    jacob.jpg


  • #260
    jimmy5bellys
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29 ✭jimmy5bellys


    3
    So I'm a little confused about what happened. Am I right in saying:

    Whatever happened on the island, happened. And the flash-sideways is an after life (heaven kind of thing) for all those involed after they all die?

    Oh and are we sure Jack dies?


  • #261
    stevenmu
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,688 Mod ✭✭✭✭stevenmu


    That was awful, truly awful. I didn't honestly expect them to answer all of the mysteries about the island, I knew that couldn't happen and I fully expected it going into the finale. I even half expected them to throw up some much bigger mystery and leave it on a cliffhanger in classic Lost style. That would have been enough, I would have been happy with that.

    Instead they did something far worse. They just turned their back on the whole mysterious Island concept. They didn't attempt to explain anything, but they also didn't even acknowledge that they were leaving things unexplained. They just completely ignored that facet of the show and tried to make it about finishing out the character arcs, and then they didn't even manage to do that. Fair enough Jack died, but what about Kate and Sawyer and all the others, what happened when they left the island?

    I knew that there would be people who felt that the ending ruined the rest of the show for them. I didn't see why, it's been a very interesting ride and even if it ended badly I didn't see how that could take away from it. I didn't think I would be one of those people, I didn't want to be. But I am. The finale has just shown the whole series up to be a cheap crappy soap opera, with some made up mystery elements thrown in to distract people from how crappy the characters are.

    tl;dr I didn't like it.


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  • #262
    Mr E
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 55,692 ✭✭✭✭Mr E


    9
    Not sure if its been said in this thread already, but the fact that Christian Shepherd (double meaning in the name) was the one to lead everyone into the light was poetic....

    Just goes to show that they really did have an endgame in mind from the very first episode.


  • #263
    JohnK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,775 ✭✭✭JohnK


    As an episode it was enjoyable enough and it did have some good parts to it but as the final episode ever it just left me feeling unfulfilled. I dont know what I was really expecting or what sort of ending I'd have loved but it just feels like this felt short of the mark. I'm going to hold off rating it just yet as I'll think on it a little longer but even that in itself doesnt bode too well.


  • #264
    tbh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,914 ✭✭✭✭tbh


    pitching the series:

    writers:
    "there's this amazing island right, and it's in the middle of the ocean, and it's inhabited by all these supernatural characters, and it has amazing properties, polar bears, smoke monsters, the fountain of youth, ghosts, three-toed statutes and the ability to TRAVEL through FRICKEN TIME! - sounds great right???? and yeah so this is the story of what happens when this guy who's been on the island dies"

    Network guy: "well, hang on, tell me more about this island?"

    Writers: "don't worry about the island, it's what happens after the guy dies that's important."


  • #265
    Handsome Bob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,905 ✭✭✭✭Handsome Bob


    7
    stevenmu wrote: »
    That was awful, truly awful. I didn't honestly expect them to answer all of the mysteries about the island, I knew that couldn't happen and I fully expected it going into the finale. I even half expected them to throw up some much bigger mystery and leave it on a cliffhanger in classic Lost style. That would have been enough, I would have been happy with that.

    Instead they did something far worse. They just turned their back on the whole mysterious Island concept. They didn't attempt to explain anything, but they also didn't even acknowledge that they were leaving things unexplained. They just completely ignored that facet of the show and tried to make it about finishing out the character arcs, and then they didn't even manage to do that. Fair enough Jack died, but what about Kate and Sawyer and all the others, what happened when they left the island?

    I knew that there would be people who felt that the ending ruined the rest of the show for them. I didn't see why, it's been a very interesting ride and even if it ended badly I didn't see how that could take away from it. I didn't think I would be one of those people, I didn't want to be. But I am. The finale has just shown the whole series up to be a cheap crappy soap opera, with some made up mystery elements thrown in to distract people from how crappy the characters are.

    tl;dr I didn't like it.

    Would have thought a mod of spirituality who is a fan of the show would have liked that ending. :pac:


  • #266
    waltersobchak
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,083 ✭✭✭waltersobchak


    7
    I personally enjoyed the emotionality of the episode, all of the character realisations in the flash sideways where outstanding, the episode itself was good but nowhere near perfect, certain aspect of the episode where excellant, but the problems i have with the episode are that with the reveal of the Alt Universe, all of the numbers, island mythology, dharma, black vs white conflict, time travel, good vs evil, etc etc are meaningless because alll the series was really about, was these people basically moving on from purgotory..

    So to be perfectly honest i can see why a lot of people would be seriously pissed off right now. Obviously the island was originally going to be purgatory but with all fan theories so early on in the series, the writers were forced to come up with all the hocus pocus to keep us entertained for the final few series of the show..


  • #267
    prinz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    9
    tbh wrote: »
    pitching the series:

    Began with the people... and the series ended with the people. Seems apt. Everything in between was just progress.


  • #268
    leedsfan88
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 437 ✭✭leedsfan88


    9
    waltersobchak wrote: »
    I personally enjoyed the emotionality of the episode, all of the character realisations in the flash sideways were outstanding, the episode itself was good but nowhere near perfect, certain aspect of the episode where excellant, but the problems i have with the episode are that with the reveal of the Alt Universe, all of the numbers, island mythology, dharma, black vs white conflict, time travel, good vs evil, etc etc are meaningless because alll the series was really about, was these people basically moving on from purgotory..

    So to be perfectly honest i can see why a lot of people would be seriously pissed off right now. Obviously the island was originally going to be purgatory but with all fan theories so early on in the series, the writers were forced to come up with all the hocus pocus to keep us entertained for the final few series of the show..

    it wasn't purgatory as it was said, it was created by the people themselves to met up before moving on to the "afterlife"


  • #269
    Star Lord
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,120 ✭✭✭✭Star Lord


    9
    Mr E wrote: »
    Just goes to show that they really did have an endgame in mind from the very first episode.

    I do firmly believe this. People can say "They're making it up as they go along!" all the want, but I believe that they had the framework/general plot points/ideas laid out from the start, and filled in the details as they went along.


  • #270
    FutureGuy
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 15,255 Mod ✭✭✭✭FutureGuy


    9
    Random thoughts...

    The cut on Jacks neck in "purgatory" which keeps bleeding was obviously caused by Lockes knife during the final battle. That's clear now. Without watching either episode, when Jack was stabbed by Locke, is it anywhere near the "appendix scar" which Jack notices at the start of the season?

    It's interesting that, at the very end when the church is flooded by the light (which is the same as the light from the Island), it's at the same time when Jack closed his eye while lying on the ground among the bamboos. Then, the scene is exactly the same as when he woke at the start of the very first episode.

    There is no way that he just so happened to die in the very same area in the very same position while Vincent just so happened to be in the area. I think there is somthing to this. Did Jacks spirit go from the church back to his body lying on the ground at the start of season 1.

    Hmmm...won't be a productive day in work!


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  • #271
    tbh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,914 ✭✭✭✭tbh


    prinz wrote: »
    Began with the people... and the series ended with the people. Seems apt. Everything in between was just progress.

    i do get what you're saying, but i just feel like the island was just a massive red herring now. It's a betrayal of trust imo, they could have made it a three-season series and just concentrated on the relationships and back stories of the people if they wanted to.
    The island thing is like a cheap magician - you know the guy isn't really doing magic, but you assume there's some skill involved in making it look like he's doing magic.

    it feels like the writers knew that they could make it as confusing as they liked, and fantastic as they liked, because they were never going to have to pay it off - instead they could just say "It wasn't about the island, it was about the people".

    I also accept the point that was made that that's just how some sci-fi is written - ordinary people in extraordinary situations, but like i say, I feel it's a betrayal of trust.


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