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Psychoactive reaction to Product sold in 'pub shop'

1235

Comments

  • #122
    Eason Square Pizzeria
    Posts: 81,308 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Eason Square Pizzeria


    I think the whole idea is a fair point, either both the head shops should be legal as well as alcohol, or both should be banned. They're both mind altering drugs and we've all heard about enough car crashes, A&E troubles, alcoholics, etc. as well as drug horror stories.


  • #123
    Playboy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,923 ✭✭✭Playboy


    DepecheHead101 wrote: »
    Do you?

    I think the onus is on you to prove that, in your words, a very very small minority, can use recreational drugs safely.

    Personally I think you are full of it, or perhaps deluded from prior experiences in certain drug circles, but what would I know - being a responsible drug user.

    lol .. Really I dont know why Im wasting my time. You want me me to prove that the majority of people cant use dependency inducing, addictive, mind altering, illegal narcotics safely? Take a trip to NA, AA, any rehab clinics, take a look around any deprived area to see what effects drugs inlcluding alcohol have on people and society. Speak to counsellors, psychologists, psychiatrists ... people who deal with the damage that substances have on people and their families. Speak to people who work in ER's and doctors .. speak to police who have to deal with people out of their head on crack, meth or whatver their drug of choice is. You are just a selfish kid who wants to get a buzz at the weekend but fails to see outside of your small insignificant life. You can waffle all you want .. preach to the choir and convince yourself .. it aint going to change the fact that the headshops are illegal and you are going to have to go back to scoring the old way lol!


  • #124
    Playboy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,923 ✭✭✭Playboy


    Herbal Deity wrote: »
    @Playboy:

    If you managed to hold down a job and be successful academically, what is it specifically that you regret?

    Probably the fact that I would be 10 years further along in my career and my life than I am now. Had specific mental issues due to continued 'weekend' use that I still have to deal with and get over .. something that most long term weekend users will have to deal with it some point. My drug of choice was mdma amongst other things. What goes up must come down .. after 10 years of caning it at the weekend you have to be prepared that more than likely you have altered you brain chemistry to an extent. I have seen the scene destroy friends of mine .. physical health, mental health, criminal records, death .. just a general wasted youth and life by the majority of people I came across who had been on the scene for a long time. Genuinely wish I had never even touched one. Had some great times as well but in hindsight I would swap those memories in an instant if I could turn back the clock.


  • #125
    Spiritoftheseventies
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,082 ✭✭✭✭Spiritoftheseventies


    delop wrote: »
    Hi Guys,

    I was watching TV the other nite and saw an ad for the GAA, they were sponsored by a beverage called Guinness, I think it must be an energy drink from what I saw on the ad, So I decided to head to the local 'pub shop' as they are locally known and I had a number of Guinness', I felt a bit strange, I started to have feelings of relaxation and cheerfulness, later that evening I started to experience blurred vision and coordination problems. I then started to have irrational and slightly violent thoughts towards a building across the road called 'St Luke's' and finally i got violently sick.

    I didn't sleep very well that night,and woke up feeling terrible the following day, depressed and ill.

    My question is should I report this establishment to the Gardai under the new law (psychoactive substances law) introduced by Minister Ahern?
    No report the barman for serving you a bad pint :D Posters ;)


  • #126
    Andy-Pandy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,848 ✭✭✭Andy-Pandy


    I've been using recreational drugs since the 90's. I’m lucky as I have never let my use get out of control. I’m delighted that the head shops have been stopped from selling that sh1te. 24 hour access to that rubbish? How is that good? They sold crap drugs that were unreliable. I just hope someone has the sense to bring back some decent mdma/ecstasy. That the drug that should be legalised. After over 20 years of continues use I think it’s proven itself to be relatively harmless (as compared with booze).


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  • #127
    rubadub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,387 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    Playboy wrote: »
    Im an adult .. I did probably more drugs than you will do in a lifetime.
    Playboy wrote: »
    Whatever m8 .. I was at it for about 10 years..
    And thats your problem right there. Like I said
    Playboy wrote: »
    FACT is drugs are bad news .. if you dont think so you are either (a) an idiot or (b) havent done enough of them that you regret it.
    The idiots are the ones who have "done enough"/too much
    Playboy wrote: »
    Its starts out fine .. something you do with your friends at the weekedn.
    Yes, it started out like that for me, and has continued like that for over 17-18 years now without escalating.
    Playboy wrote: »
    You want me me to prove that the majority of people cant use dependency inducing, addictive, mind altering, illegal narcotics safely? Take a trip to NA, AA, any rehab clinics
    Yep, go there and you will see the vast majoirty of users are not there, its a small minority of people -just becuase these cannot handle it doesn't mean it has to be ruined for everybody else. I presume you do not drink alcohol, so do you warn your parents/siblings/friends about the danger of it too? How many of them are in AA? the majority?
    Playboy wrote: »
    just a general wasted youth and life by the majority of people I came across who had been on the scene for a long time. Genuinely wish I had never even touched one. Had some great times as well but in hindsight I would swap those memories in an instant if I could turn back the clock.
    So if you went back in time you would not have started drinking or taking other drugs? What do you think you would have been doing at the weekends etc which would not have been a waste?


  • #128
    Herbal Deity
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,397 ✭✭✭Herbal Deity


    Playboy wrote: »
    Probably the fact that I would be 10 years further along in my career and my life than I am now. Had specific mental issues due to continued 'weekend' use that I still have to deal with and get over .. something that most long term weekend users will have to deal with it some point. My drug of choice was mdma amongst other things. What goes up must come down .. after 10 years of caning it at the weekend you have to be prepared that more than likely you have altered you brain chemistry to an extent. I have seen the scene destroy friends of mine .. physical health, mental health, criminal records, death .. just a general wasted youth and life by the majority of people I came across who had been on the scene for a long time. Genuinely wish I had never even touched one. Had some great times as well but in hindsight I would swap those memories in an instant if I could turn back the clock.
    Would you not agree that illegality and everything being so underground leads to a lack of information from sources people trust in the public domain?

    Like, using MDMA every weekend is a bad idea. If one researches it, they'll find that most responsible drug users online would recommend doing it only once every two or three months.

    And maybe with regulation and proper education, people would be less likely to go "caning it" every weekend and more likely to only take reasonable doses every few months.


  • #129
    DepecheHead101
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 609 ✭✭✭DepecheHead101


    Playboy wrote: »
    lol .. Really I dont know why Im wasting my time. You want me me to prove that the majority of people cant use dependency inducing, addictive, mind altering, illegal narcotics safely? Take a trip to NA, AA, any rehab clinics, take a look around any deprived area to see what effects drugs inlcluding alcohol have on people and society. Speak to counsellors, psychologists, psychiatrists ... people who deal with the damage that substances have on people and their families. Speak to people who work in ER's and doctors .. speak to police who have to deal with people out of their head on crack, meth or whatver their drug of choice is. You are just a selfish kid who wants to get a buzz at the weekend but fails to see outside of your small insignificant life. You can waffle all you want .. preach to the choir and convince yourself .. it aint going to change the fact that the headshops are illegal and you are going to have to go back to scoring the old way lol!
    So your hard evidence to convince me that only a very, very small minority of people can use drugs safely is to visit all the places where the people who can't use drugs safely end up?

    I asked you for a proper argument. I didn't ask you to point out that sick people end up in ER's. That people who get caught end up in cells. That addicts end up in clinics.

    These things are obvious facts.

    It's akin to me trying to prove to you that 99% of the worlds population has a serious problem with saturated fats by telling you to go to a weight clinic. Or that Alcohol should be outlawed because prison cells, rehabilitation clinics, and ER's are filled with more alcohol induced cases than illegal drug induced cases. Whoops-a-daisy!

    I'm twenty two and it's been about a year since I dabbled with synthetic smoking blends. I would appreciate it if you didn't make patronising assumptions about either me or any of the millions of other responsible drug users who exist in the world.


  • #130
    Playboy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,923 ✭✭✭Playboy


    DepecheHead101 wrote: »
    So your hard evidence to convince me that only a very, very small minority of people can use drugs safely is to visit all the places where the people who can't use drugs safely end up?

    I asked you for a proper argument. I didn't ask you to point out that sick people end up in ER's. That people who get caught end up in cells. That addicts end up in clinics.

    These things are obvious facts.

    It's akin to me trying to prove to you that 99% of the worlds population has a serious problem with saturated fats by telling you to go to a weight clinic. Or that Alcohol should be outlawed because prison cells, rehabilitation clinics, and ER's are filled with more alcohol induced cases than illegal drug induced cases. Whoops-a-daisy!

    I'm twenty two and it's been about a year since I dabbled with synthetic smoking blends. I would appreciate it if you didn't make patronising assumptions about either me or any of the millions of other responsible drug users who exist in the world.

    This is a pointless circular argument. I have the benefit of some experience both in my personal and work life that has made me draw the conclusions I have. I would say to you that my point if understood is self evident. What is a 'responsible' drug user? How do you define one .. what parameters do you set to define responsbile? Can you be responsible some weekends and not others? Can you have periods of months or years where you were an irresponsible user and then have periods of responsible use. Does everybodies definition of responsible use differ? I thought I was a relativley repsonsible user in so much as you can be. I mean any rational person knows that taking recreational chemicals isnt good for them but I wasnt shooting up or smoking crack .. i was just having a laugh with my friends every weekend. I believe I, in comparison to most people, can exercise quite a high degree of self control and discipline. The nature of the substances I was taking eroded that self control and discipline .. it changed my perception of what I was doing as a consequence of doing it. Thats the point .. most of the substances discussed affect everybody's decision making ability and their perception of themselves and what they are doing. Thats why they are called 'mind altering'! If you make these substances freely available in society to people in a regulated manner like alochol is then there will be absolute carnage .. of that I have no doubt. Thats my opinion .. You have yours. Im just glad most governments and most people agree with me and not you. Maybe you and people like you have all the answers to the drug issue and really do know whats best for society but the odds are that you dont.


  • #131
    DepecheHead101
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 609 ✭✭✭DepecheHead101


    Playboy wrote: »
    This is a pointless circular argument. I have the benefit of some experience both in my personal and work life that has made me draw the conclusions I have. I would say to you that my point if understood is self evident. What is a 'responsible' drug user? How do you define one .. what parameters do you set to define responsbile? Can you be responsible some weekends and not others? Can you have periods of months or years where you were an irresponsible user and then have periods of responsible use. Does everybodies definition of responsible use differ? I thought I was a relativley repsonsible user in so much as you can be. I mean any rational person knows that taking recreational chemicals isnt good for them but I wasnt shooting up or smoking crack .. i was just having a laugh with my friends every weekend. I believe I, in comparison to most people, can exercise quite a high degree of self control and discipline. The nature of the substances I was taking eroded that self control and discipline .. it changed my perception of what I was doing as a consequence of doing it. Thats the point .. most of the substances discussed affect everybody's decision making ability and their perception of themselves and what they are doing. Thats why they are called 'mind altering'! If you make these substances freely available in society to people in a regulated manner like alochol is then there will be absolute carnage .. of that I have no doubt. Thats my opinion .. You have yours. Im just glad most governments and most people agree with me and not you. Maybe you and people like you have all the answers to the drug issue and really do know whats best for society but the odds are that you dont.
    You said it yourself - your experiences. Not everybodys. You have to reconcile yourself with that fact sooner or later. I'm not denying that millions of people botch up on drugs, but not everybody does, and a lot of those people who botch up botched up in the first place as a result of illegality!

    See the thing is, I'm not the ones proclaiming what's best for society. You are.

    I want grown adults to have the freedom to make up their own damn minds.


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  • #132
    rubadub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,387 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    Playboy wrote: »
    I mean any rational person knows that taking recreational chemicals isnt good for them
    Thats debatable, I know many people who take threshold doses of various drugs, alcohol, cannabis, shrooms. Some have medicinal properties and can be used as stress relief relaxants, being overstressed is a serious problem but obviously hard to quantify. I know myself and others who suffer from auto-immune related diseases which cause flareups in times of high stress, and I have found these can help. The problem is hardcore users find it hard to fathom that people can enjoy low doses, it is odd since many can accept people have a glass or 2 of wine with dinner without the feeling the need to turn it into a full on blackout session.
    Playboy wrote: »
    Im just glad most governments and most people agree with me and not you.
    How do you know most people agree? real opinions are very much hidden due to the illegality of the substances, I know many people who would not dare smoke cannabis here but when in amsterdam they would, its an emperors new clothes situation. Medical experts fear of getting involved with studies on recreational drugs as it can be career suicide.

    Did you see the poll in this thread? http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055908282

    Also some people are for decriminalisation
    http://usmjparty.blogspot.com/2005_12_01_archive.html
    IrishExaminer.com, Ireland

    By Mary Regan
    THE head of the country’s biggest drug centre is calling for the decriminalisation of the use of all drugs - including heroin.

    The director of the Merchant’s Quay Project, Tony Geoghegan, said that labelling addicts as criminals reduces their chances of rehabilitation and introduces them to crime circles.

    He said he did not want to see drugs legalised, but believed their misuse should no longer be dealt with under the criminal justice system. He said it should be treated as a health and social problem instead.

    Mr Geoghegan believes laws governing the use of all drugs here should be based on the British model of the decriminalisation of cannabis, which makes possession of the drug legal, but not production or supply.

    Mr Geoghegan, who helps hundreds of heroin users in the capital, said: “I think resources used for prosecuting cannabis users could be more effectively targeted.”

    Mr Geoghegan believes imprisoning drug users leads to a vicious circle.

    “Sending people to prison for12 months does not address the problem of why they were using drugs in the first place,” he said.


  • #133
    Shulgin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 688 ✭✭✭Shulgin


    I think that the likes of you,me and all of the other recreational drug users should be out pushing hard for legalising mdma,cannabis,mushrooms,lsd and whatnot. Does it not worry you that you are being criminalised for something that causes no harm to anyone only possibly yourself?

    Raping someone repeatedly at gunpoint will get you less time in Jail

    That is really messed up!

    Surely a good proportion of people will stand up and openly voice their resentment of farcical hypocritical drug laws?



    Andy-Pandy wrote: »
    I've been using recreational drugs since the 90's. I’m lucky as I have never let my use get out of control. I’m delighted that the head shops have been stopped from selling that sh1te. 24 hour access to that rubbish? How is that good? They sold crap drugs that were unreliable. I just hope someone has the sense to bring back some decent mdma/ecstasy. That the drug that should be legalised. After over 20 years of continues use I think it’s proven itself to be relatively harmless (as compared with booze).


  • #134
    Gigiwagga
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 343 ✭✭Gigiwagga


    Playboy wrote: »
    This is a pointless circular argument. I have the benefit of some experience both in my personal and work life that has made me draw the conclusions I have. I would say to you that my point if understood is self evident. What is a 'responsible' drug user? How do you define one .. what parameters do you set to define responsbile? Can you be responsible some weekends and not others? Can you have periods of months or years where you were an irresponsible user and then have periods of responsible use. Does everybodies definition of responsible use differ? I thought I was a relativley repsonsible user in so much as you can be. I mean any rational person knows that taking recreational chemicals isnt good for them but I wasnt shooting up or smoking crack .. i was just having a laugh with my friends every weekend. I believe I, in comparison to most people, can exercise quite a high degree of self control and discipline. The nature of the substances I was taking eroded that self control and discipline .. it changed my perception of what I was doing as a consequence of doing it. Thats the point .. most of the substances discussed affect everybody's decision making ability and their perception of themselves and what they are doing. Thats why they are called 'mind altering'! If you make these substances freely available in society to people in a regulated manner like alochol is then there will be absolute carnage .. of that I have no doubt. Thats my opinion .. You have yours. Im just glad most governments and most people agree with me and not you. Maybe you and people like you have all the answers to the drug issue and really do know whats best for society but the odds are that you dont.

    You sound very bitter about your 'life' experience overall as in 'if only I did things that way instead of this way I would be happier, healthier and richer.'
    You know honestly most people of all walks of life could probably say the same thing. We all have regrets. The business man who has s***loads of money and huge business interests and huge successes, very often has a very poor relationship with his children, because of his work ethic, most would consider him a great success but he might consider himself a massive failure. On his death bed he wont utter hoarsly that he wished he spent more time in the office.
    Life is what we make it, enjoying your life is the most important thing.
    It's also very short.
    And until we get to that Death Bed scene we are ALL in a position to change it for the better.
    Money is mind altering, sex is mind altering, poverty is mind altering, illness is mind altering, your relationship with your mother is mind altering. Life is mind altering.

    Boards is mind altering.


  • #135
    ScumLord
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,787 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    Playboy wrote: »
    lol .. Really I dont know why Im wasting my time. You want me me to prove that the majority of people cant use dependency inducing, addictive, mind altering, illegal narcotics safely? Take a trip to NA, AA, any rehab clinics, take a look around any deprived area to see what effects drugs inlcluding alcohol have on people and society. Speak to counsellors, psychologists, psychiatrists ... people who deal with the damage that substances have on people and their families. Speak to people who work in ER's and doctors .. speak to police who have to deal with people out of their head on crack, meth or whatver their drug of choice is. You are just a selfish kid who wants to get a buzz at the weekend but fails to see outside of your small insignificant life. You can waffle all you want .. preach to the choir and convince yourself .. it aint going to change the fact that the headshops are illegal and you are going to have to go back to scoring the old way lol!
    Your focused only on the worst your not taking in the whole picture, most people don't end up like that. It's like saying the KKK represent America or Limerick gangs are your typical Irish person. I've been using drugs on and off for 10 years and haven't seen my friends in rehab, they all had jobs and now have families. Your talking about the effects of prohibition not drugs.


  • #136
    Playboy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,923 ✭✭✭Playboy


    rubadub wrote: »
    Thats debatable, I know many people who take threshold doses of various drugs, alcohol, cannabis, shrooms. Some have medicinal properties and can be used as stress relief relaxants, being overstressed is a serious problem but obviously hard to quantify. I know myself and others who suffer from auto-immune related diseases which cause flareups in times of high stress, and I have found these can help. The problem is hardcore users find it hard to fathom that people can enjoy low doses, it is odd since many can accept people have a glass or 2 of wine with dinner without the feeling the need to turn it into a full on blackout session.

    I think you are being more than a little pedantic here. I mean in all fairness there are studies out there that show beneficial effects of nicotine in small doses. Does that mean its healthy to smoke? Nicotine is an addictive drug that for the majority of people find it difficult to control usage .. it has the potential to be life threatening so therefore the negatives far outweigh any positives. Alcohol again .. nice in small doses and a stress reliever! Have you walked down any Irish Town centre or an ER late at night in recent memory? Cannabis .. How many stoners do you know in comparison to people who have the odd smoke for recreational purposes? .. people abuse substances unfortunately and we already have enough issues managing Alcohol and cigarettes without adding MDMA, Cocaine, Heroine, Mushrooms, LSD, Meth, Ketamine and whatever concoctions they have dreamed up in Headshops to the mix. Whatever you might think .. prohibition keeps drug usage underground (just about) and that is a good thing imo. Legalize it and you will see a shift in our culture within one generation where all the young people are getting out of their heads with the same penetration that alcohol has. It would be an absolute nightmare. You just have to see the hugh increase in young people doing meow meow and drugs like it just because its legal. People who normally you would never see doing mdma or coke and who probably arent aware of the potential consequences that users of mdma, coke etc would be. All of a sudden its legal, cheap and available and everybody's doing it.
    rubadub wrote: »
    How do you know most people agree? real opinions are very much hidden due to the illegality of the substances, I know many people who would not dare smoke cannabis here but when in amsterdam they would, its an emperors new clothes situation. Medical experts fear of getting involved with studies on recreational drugs as it can be career suicide.

    Did you see the poll in this thread? http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055908282

    Also some people are for decriminalisation
    http://usmjparty.blogspot.com/2005_12_01_archive.html

    Seriously? You are trying to tell me that 'most' people would be for legalising drugs? The vast majority of the population dont do illegal drugs and would be against any form of legalization .. mostly due to ignorance. People who are aware of drugs .. have used and have known users or people who work in rehabs .. in my experience are split pretty evenly over legalization. There is no easy solution to the problem. I concede that on many levels the pro legalisation camp has many strong arguments when it comes to regulation, quality of product, criminal gangs etc. etc. It just isnt worth the risk in my opinion .. the potential negative consequences of legalisation are far too great to take a risk.


  • #137
    Playboy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,923 ✭✭✭Playboy


    Gigiwagga wrote: »
    You sound very bitter about your 'life' experience overall as in 'if only I did things that way instead of this way I would be happier, healthier and richer.'
    You know honestly most people of all walks of life could probably say the same thing. We all have regrets. The business man who has s***loads of money and huge business interests and huge successes, very often has a very poor relationship with his children, because of his work ethic, most would consider him a great success but he might consider himself a massive failure. On his death bed he wont utter hoarsly that he wished he spent more time in the office.
    Life is what we make it, enjoying your life is the most important thing.
    It's also very short.
    And until we get to that Death Bed scene we are ALL in a position to change it for the better.
    Money is mind altering, sex is mind altering, poverty is mind altering, illness is mind altering, your relationship with your mother is mind altering. Life is mind altering.

    Boards is mind altering.

    I'm not bitter at all actually. I made lots of mistakes that I didnt need to and I can recognise what was and is good in my life compared to what was bad or negative. I wasted a lot of time that could have been better spent .. not just working but everything else as well. I realised that I and many of people who I came across on the scene were not happy and what we were doing wasnt making us happy. It was escapism .. an inability to deal with life and get on with things .. I suppose you could describe it as being lost.


  • #138
    ScumLord
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,787 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    Playboy wrote: »
    Whatever you might think .. prohibition keeps drug usage underground (just about) and that is a good thing imo. Legalize it and you will see a shift in our culture within one generation where all the young people are getting out of their heads with the same penetration that alcohol has. It would be an absolute nightmare. You just have to see the hugh increase in young people doing meow meow and drugs like it just because its legal. People who normally you would never see doing mdma or coke and who probably arent aware of the potential consequences that users of mdma, coke etc would be. All of a sudden its legal, cheap and available and everybody's doing it.
    Sure you would, :rolleyes: So everyone that's not you is an idiot with no self control? There's no evidence that would happen, all evidence says when drugs are freely available from reputable sources usage goes down. People have jobs and interests that they want to fulfil, most drug users do not become addicts and do not lose control of their lives.


  • #139
    Andy-Pandy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,848 ✭✭✭Andy-Pandy


    Shulgin wrote: »
    I think that the likes of you,me and all of the other recreational drug users should be out pushing hard for legalising mdma,cannabis,mushrooms,lsd and whatnot. Does it not worry you that you are being criminalised for something that causes no harm to anyone only possibly yourself?

    Raping someone repeatedly at gunpoint will get you less time in Jail

    That is really messed up!

    Surely a good proportion of people will stand up and openly voice their resentment of farcical hypocritical drug laws?

    The drug laws are a joke, absolutly. But the awnser to it is not flooding the streets with the rubbish that came out of the head shops. People should have the right to choose what they put in there body ,sure, but the problem was that the only choice that was available was more harmfull than the illegal options. Hash and excstacy are what should be available to people that want to use them. It'll never happen, but there my drugs of choice, and less of a threat than booze or the head shop sh!te.


  • #140
    Playboy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,923 ✭✭✭Playboy


    ScumLord wrote: »
    Sure you would, :rolleyes: So everyone that's not you is an idiot with no self control? There's no evidence that would happen, all evidence says when drugs are freely available from reputable sources usage goes down. People have jobs and interests that they want to fulfil, most drug users do not become addicts and do not lose control of their lives.

    You seem to fail to grasp a simple point. If this country and other coutries already have massive issues with a legalized drug such as alcohol .. and then you introduce another drug(s) into the system and make them freely available it follows that the 'penetration' of the drug within the market will spread as it becomes accepted into the popular culture of a younger generation who grow up with it. Not everyone will have problems but you will see problems develop at the same level that currently exist with alcohol .. probably more so due to the lack of adjustment time the population has to the drug.

    And where have there been studies done about when hard drugs are freely available for everyone in society? I dont know of any! And please dont point me to some study done on weed in the Netherlands.


  • #141
    Shulgin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 688 ✭✭✭Shulgin


    Andy-Pandy wrote: »
    Hash and excstacy are what should be available to people that want to use them. It'll never happen, but there my drugs of choice, and less of a threat than booze or the head shop sh!te.

    My point was it certainly won`t happen until recreational drug users come out of the woodwork and openly voice their opinions. Just resigning to the fact it will never happen is just giving up..


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  • #142
    Andy-Pandy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,848 ✭✭✭Andy-Pandy


    Shulgin wrote: »
    My point was it certainly won`t happen until recreational drug users come out of the woodwork and openly voice their opinions. Just resigning to the fact it will never happen is just giving up..

    Most of my peers no i like to dable, im not the worlds bigest drinker, but im not gonna shout it from the rooftops. Everybody knows i smoke hash (not weed), i hide it from no one and feel no shame in it at all. But im not gonna preach to anyone about what is right for them and what they should have to do. I'm not worried about ever being cought with hash, im a perfectly functioning member of society and i would never have more than a personal amount on me. I dont think there would be any hassle if i was ever cought by a guard, they have more important things to do.


  • #143
    ScumLord
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,787 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    oppenheimer1 wrote: »
    Drug users never think its themselves that are the problem, and fundamentally that is the problem.
    Playboy wrote: »
    You seem to fail to grasp a simple point. If this country and other coutries already have massive issues with a legalized drug such as alcohol .. and then you introduce another drug(s) into the system and make them freely available it follows that the 'penetration' of the drug within the market will spread as it becomes accepted into the popular culture of a younger generation who grow up with it. Not everyone will have problems but you will see problems develop at the same level that currently exist with alcohol .. probably more so due to the lack of adjustment time the population has to the drug.

    And where have there been studies done about when hard drugs are freely available for everyone in society? I dont know of any! And please dont point me to some study done on weed in the Netherlands.
    You just don't know that, there's no evidence to support it. Your making an assumption that everyone will go crazy on drugs and the seventh level of hell will open up a shallow all the children. It's nonsense.

    I don't think the drugs are the problem, how we deal with those drugs is. The fact is drugs have been used all throughout human history, they've contributed to many of the human races greatest flights of fancy and ingenuity. Drugs were not as big a problem when they where legal as they are now under prohibition ever bit of evidence we have proves that.

    I don't accept your argument because I as a drug user haven't seen it happen even on a small scale. The illegal drugs like weed and mdma don't make people violent thugs, it's the exact opposite.

    And on the drug dealing scum and druggies, they tend to be exclusive to big cities I haven't seen them out here in the west bar from a certain group of people.


  • #144
    Shulgin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 688 ✭✭✭Shulgin


    Andy-Pandy wrote: »
    Most of my peers no i like to dable, im not the worlds bigest drinker, but im not gonna shout it from the rooftops. Everybody knows i smoke hash (not weed), i hide it from no one and feel no shame in it at all. But im not gonna preach to anyone about what is right for them and what they should have to do. I'm not worried about ever being cought with hash, im a perfectly functioning member of society and i would never have more than a personal amount on me. I dont think there would be any hassle if i was ever cought by a guard, they have more important things to do.


    ^^This is exactly why nothing will ever change and why the likes of Ahern and harney will stamp all over our rights forever more.

    A sorry state of affairs.


  • #145
    Cheap Thrills!
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,723 ✭✭✭Cheap Thrills!


    Playboy wrote: »
    You seem to fail to grasp a simple point. If this country and other coutries already have massive issues with a legalized drug such as alcohol .. and then you introduce another drug(s) into the system and make them freely available it follows that the 'penetration' of the drug within the market will spread as it becomes accepted into the popular culture of a younger generation who grow up with it. Not everyone will have problems but you will see problems develop at the same level that currently exist with alcohol .. probably more so due to the lack of adjustment time the population has to the drug.

    And where have there been studies done about when hard drugs are freely available for everyone in society? I dont know of any! And please dont point me to some study done on weed in the Netherlands.

    It doesn't matter how it gets to people. Once its invented and people get to like it, there's no un-inventing it.

    Its all very well people like you and me (I am a little older than you) who tucked into the whole lifestyle and made hay back then to say 'I've had my turn but you can't cos I've learned the lessons but you can't. Its banned for you.'

    Would I have listened back in 1989 when ecstacy came (following lsd) ???

    No, because I was curious and I wanted to do what I wanted to do. I listened to people but at the end of the day I wanted to do the things I did. And I'm glad I did.

    Prohibition doesn't work. The genie can't go back inside the bottle. Human nature creates the demand for mind altering substances. That won't change.

    We have 20/25 years research on ecstacy NOW, but we didn't back in the day and people still took it in their millions.

    Formal scientific testing will commence on the cathinones. There are already countless, enourmous stores of user information/experiences online. I don't believe some of these 'new' rc's are going away. On the contrary.


  • #146
    Andy-Pandy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,848 ✭✭✭Andy-Pandy


    Shulgin wrote: »
    ^^This is exactly why nothing will ever change and why the likes of Ahern and harney will stamp all over our rights forever more.

    A sorry state of affairs.

    I’m just a realist, and someone who just wants to get on with my own life. I know drugs are bad, ive seen them have a sh1t affect on many of my friends. Not everyone can handle it, and it messes up many lives. Just because I can deal with it, that doesn’t mean that everyone can. I could not with a clear conscience tell the world that drugs are ok. If you want too, great, I wouldn’t stop you. But im glad the head shops are gone; 24 hour access to strong drugs is just bad for society. I've seen it and lived it now, and it’s a fairly informed view that I have. Legalisation will never happen with the generation of politicians that we have , and with the type of person that chooses to go into politics it probably never will, and if im honest i dont think the majority of the population would want it either. It sucks that the money goes to gangsters rather than the country's cofferrs and it sucks even more that nice and generaly harmless people have to break the law to get high, but untill change is what the people want then its what it will always be like. Common sence does'nt come into it.


  • #147
    Shulgin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 688 ✭✭✭Shulgin


    I get you Andy, thanks for the in dept reply. Most people are resigned to accepting the status quo just like yourself. Its sad, and I wish it would change, I would stick my neck out and campaign for a change if I knew there were others who were willing to go with me, but I understand why people wouldn`t take the risk or bother. There is way too much stigma, ignorant politicians and general misinformation about drugs for most people to take the risk .

    If one or two politicians would take the issue seriously it would help, but I do get the feeling we are pissing against the wind on this one. :(




    Andy-Pandy wrote: »
    I’m just a realist, and someone who just wants to get on with my own life. I know drugs are bad, ive seen them have a sh1t affect on many of my friends. Not everyone can handle it, and it messes up many lives. Just because I can deal with it, that doesn’t mean that everyone can. I could not with a clear conscience tell the world that drugs are ok. If you want too, great, I wouldn’t stop you. But im glad the head shops are gone; 24 hour access to strong drugs is just bad for society. I've seen it and lived it now, and it’s a fairly informed view that I have. Legalisation will never happen with the generation of politicians that we have , and with the type of person that chooses to go into politics it probably never will, and if im honest i dont think the majority of the population would want it either. It sucks that the money goes to gangsters rather than the country's cofferrs and it sucks even more that nice and generaly harmless people have to break the law to get high, but untill change is what the people want then its what it will always be like. Common sence does'nt come into it.


  • #148
    oppenheimer1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,733 ✭✭✭oppenheimer1


    DepecheHead101 wrote: »
    I love when people, unbestknown to themselves, end up arguing for the other side. What a great excuse for legalisation.

    How is people wanting to get high a problem? You are going to have to be less ambiguous in your points. Are people wanting to get drunk at the weekend directly to blame for me getting the **** kicked out of me by four pissheads back in 2007?

    Of course not. Stupid people were.

    Speaking of arguing your point with hard facts, do you know for a fact that the majority of Irish people wanted these substances banned? Even without any media support and a piss poor promotional job, the anti prohibition marches this year had hundreds more marching in them than all the head shop protests combined.

    There you have misunderstood me. I have no problem with people campaigning for a change in the law, but it doesn't mean they should break the current law in the mean time to suit themselves and their lifestyle.


  • #149
    oppenheimer1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,733 ✭✭✭oppenheimer1


    ScumLord wrote: »
    You just don't know that, there's no evidence to support it. Your making an assumption that everyone will go crazy on drugs and the seventh level of hell will open up a shallow all the children. It's nonsense.

    I don't think the drugs are the problem, how we deal with those drugs is. The fact is drugs have been used all throughout human history, they've contributed to many of the human races greatest flights of fancy and ingenuity. Drugs were not as big a problem when they where legal as they are now under prohibition ever bit of evidence we have proves that.

    I don't accept your argument because I as a drug user haven't seen it happen even on a small scale. The illegal drugs like weed and mdma don't make people violent thugs, it's the exact opposite.

    And on the drug dealing scum and druggies, they tend to be exclusive to big cities I haven't seen them out here in the west bar from a certain group of people.

    And who do you think imports the stuff into Ireland? What kind of people do you think they are, just because you don't see them doesn't mean you're not lining their pockets.


  • #150
    questioner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 408 ✭✭questioner


    people get over drug use, its a phase, and all things considered quite a boring one. illegality lends a glamour to what is a *very* mundane existence.

    However, a criminal record will not be something you get over early or easy.
    A few lines on the weekend when your 25 will not stop you getting that promotion when your 35.

    A conviction (especially for drugs) will most likely prevent you even getting an interview.

    this is the reality for the majority of drug users. I dont care about Joey who has a problem, I have problems too and I don't expect the whole world to have to suffer as a result.


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  • #151
    DepecheHead101
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 609 ✭✭✭DepecheHead101


    Playboy wrote: »
    You seem to fail to grasp a simple point. If this country and other coutries already have massive issues with a legalized drug such as alcohol .. and then you introduce another drug(s) into the system and make them freely available it follows that the 'penetration' of the drug within the market will spread as it becomes accepted into the popular culture of a younger generation who grow up with it. Not everyone will have problems but you will see problems develop at the same level that currently exist with alcohol .. probably more so due to the lack of adjustment time the population has to the drug.

    And where have there been studies done about when hard drugs are freely available for everyone in society? I dont know of any! And please dont point me to some study done on weed in the Netherlands.
    Why not?

    After all, the native Dutch people consume Cannabis at way lower than the EU average, and it's freely available over there.

    Is that why you didn't want the Netherlands brought into this? Because it would prove wrong your narrow ass assumption that people have no self control?


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