That idiot, the pope

eoin5 · 17-02-2010 01:16AM

I dont see any artistic merit in this thread, I think we could be on for it!

Ultravid · 17-02-2010 04:30AM

axer wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0216/abuse.html

The pope thinks that a weakening of the faith is one of the main reasons that lead to sexual abuse of minors and that preparation will help candidates not abuse children.

I cannot believe that this guy still hasn't an understanding of pedophilia.

I knew this would be misinterpreted.

The weakening of the faith refers firstly, imho, to the Bishops: when bishops lose faith they act like managers, not shepherds. Managers protect the company, shepherds guard the flock. Secondly, the lay people failed in their obligations too - did they pray for their priests and bishops? There is a saying that the people get the priests they deserve.

You have to try to see this through the eyes of faith. If you believe, then you will know that bishops are especially under attack by Satan and prone to making really bad decisions, especially if their own faith is weak, which comes about through personal neglect, but also cos of the pants formation many of these men received in the wacky days post Vatican 2. IF Church morals and Canon Law had been followed and the faith actually lived from the heart, none of this would have happened. Instead, liberalism, modernism, and dissent became widespread, and still to this day. This is really quite relevant:
http://www.chastitysf.com/q_guide.htm and this: http://www.chastitysf.com/q_church.htm and these all show that really, we've all got ourselves to blame. Catholics in Ireland, in my view, bear a corporate guilt for what has happened; though the great blame ultimately rests with bishops, I am sure there were many other people who failed in their duties.

For an intelligent discussion of this, with some interesting contributions, you can see here, but be warned: Father Z does not tolerate fools, and you must be registered to post on his site, which requires prior approval:
http://wdtprs.com/blog/2010/02/irish-bishops-should-restore-credibility-through-penance-in-lent/

Ultravid · 17-02-2010 04:40AM

Zillah wrote: »

He is certainly implying that morality and faith are inherently entwined, and that we non-believers are therefore more susceptible to wickedness.

It's interesting that you should say that, because, although some members of the clergy did evil things, the Church teaches that what they did was indeed evil, whereas some of the most vitriolic haters of the Church are the same ones who would wheel baby-killing into Ireland in the morning, if they could, and and they are of course trying. Whilst the Church says this baby-killing is actually evil, the proponents may go so far as to describe it as 'sacred work'. I kid you not: http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/dec/09120402.html

The problem here is the teachings of a religion not being followed by its members. The teaching itself is not the problem.

eoin5 · 17-02-2010 05:14AM

Ultravid wrote: »

There is a saying that the people get the priests they deserve.

So youre saying that those children deserved to be raped. Holy cráp.

strobe · 17-02-2010 05:32AM

Ultravid wrote: »

Secondly, the lay people failed in their obligations too - did they pray for their priests and bishops? There is a saying that the people get the priests they deserve.

Dude....................

strobe · 17-02-2010 05:42AM

Ultravid wrote: »

I knew this would be misinterpreted.

The weakening of the faith refers firstly, imho, to the Bishops: when bishops lose faith they act like managers, not shepherds. Managers protect the company, shepherds guard the flock. Secondly, the lay people failed in their obligations too - did they pray for their priests and bishops? There is a saying that the people get the priests they deserve.

You have to try to see this through the eyes of faith. If you believe, then you will know that bishops are especially under attack by Satan and prone to making really bad decisions, especially if their own faith is weak, which comes about through personal neglect, but also cos of the pants formation many of these men received in the wacky days post Vatican 2. IF Church morals and Canon Law had been followed and the faith actually lived from the heart, none of this would have happened. Instead, liberalism, modernism, and dissent became widespread, and still to this day. This is really quite relevant:
http://www.chastitysf.com/q_guide.htm and this: http://www.chastitysf.com/q_church.htm and these all show that really, we've all got ourselves to blame. Catholics in Ireland, in my view, bear a corporate guilt for what has happened; though the great blame ultimately rests with bishops, I am sure there were many other people who failed in their duties.

For an intelligent discussion of this, with some interesting contributions, you can see here, but be warned: Father Z does not tolerate fools, and you must be registered to post on his site, which requires prior approval:
http://wdtprs.com/blog/2010/02/irish-bishops-should-restore-credibility-through-penance-in-lent/

I really am in utter astonishment. I re-read that 5 or 6 times to be sure the early hour of the morning wasn't playing tricks with my mind. You are the human embodiment of everything that is wrong with religion. Congratulations because it takes some fukking doing to win that title. That's all I'm going to type in response untill tomorow as this is an expensive laptop and I'm on the verge of kicking it round the room after reading that.

Zillah · 17-02-2010 06:09AM

Ultravid wrote: »

Secondly, the lay people failed in their obligations too - did they pray for their priests and bishops? There is a saying that the people get the priests they deserve.

Catholics in Ireland, in my view, bear a corporate guilt for what has happened; though the great blame ultimately rests with bishops, I am sure there were many other people who failed in their duties.

Let me state this as clearly as I can so there can be no misunderstanding: The people who are at fault are the priests who raped children and the individuals who helped them get away with it.

Anything else is just staggering idiocy.

If you believe, then you will know that bishops are especially under attack by Satan and prone to making really bad decisions

It is when I read sentences like this that I truly grasp just how large a divide there is between myself and the faithful. This...incomprehensible lunacy and magical word play in the face of viscerally real and appalling crimes just makes me feel ashamed of my species. Grow up already, you can't keep blaming everything on the boogeyman.

IF Church morals and Canon Law had been followed and the faith actually lived from the heart, none of this would have happened. Instead, liberalism, modernism, and dissent became widespread, and still to this day.

Please explain how liberalism and modernism contributed to Catholic priests raping children?

whereas some of the most vitriolic haters of the Church are the same ones who would wheel baby-killing into Ireland in the morning, if they could

You mean allowing women to control their own bodies? Yes, I too think I have the right to decide what happens inside women's reproductive organs.

robindch · 17-02-2010 08:47AM

strobe wrote: »

sweet fukking jesus....

Strong feelings are understandable, but let's try to keep language to a minimum. Thanks.

Zillah wrote: »

Let me state this as clearly as I can so there can be no misunderstanding: The people who are at fault are the priests who raped children and the individuals who helped them get away with it.

This says all that needs to be said.

Anything else -- including the pope's comments and his supporters' similarly mealy-mouthed remarks -- are denials of fact and of responsibility.

pH · 17-02-2010 08:58AM

Ultravid wrote: »

Catholics in Ireland, in my view, bear a corporate guilt for what has happened; though the great blame ultimately rests with bishops, I am sure there were many other people who failed in their duties.

That bit I agree with, if people weren't so gullible and hadn't allowed a self-serving power-hungry organisation the status and control it was given then all this wouldn't have happened.

Still it's not *just* the individual acts of sexual child-abuse carried out by priests, there's still the systematic institutional abuse and torture of children by your religious orders to consider.

Your sick woman and child hating morality which lead to the horrors of the Magdellan laundries was not the failing or one or two individuals, it lays bare the callousness, spitefulness and awfulness of your entire 'faith' and organisation.

strobe · 17-02-2010 09:23AM

robindch wrote: »

Strong feelings are understandable, but let's try to keep language to a minimum.

edited.

Sam Vimes · 17-02-2010 09:31AM

Ultravid wrote: »

Secondly, the lay people failed in their obligations too - did they pray for their priests and bishops? There is a saying that the people get the priests they deserve.

Jesus _______ christ man

Edit: swear word erased at robin's request

fatmammycat · 17-02-2010 10:19AM

"The weakening of the faith refers firstly, imho, to the Bishops: when bishops lose faith they act like managers, not shepherds. Managers protect the company, shepherds guard the flock. Secondly, the lay people failed in their obligations too - did they pray for their priests and bishops? There is a saying that the people get the priests they deserve."

Truly and utterly pathetic.:mad:

Mitch Connor · 17-02-2010 10:31AM

fatmammycat wrote: »

"The weakening of the faith refers firstly, imho, to the Bishops: when bishops lose faith they act like managers, not shepherds. Managers protect the company, shepherds guard the flock. Secondly, the lay people failed in their obligations too - did they pray for their priests and bishops? There is a saying that the people get the priests they deserve."

Truly and utterly pathetic.:mad:

so really the victims of abuse should be appologising to the church, for not praying hard enough and not being deserving of better than they got.

it is a pathetic notion, isn't it.

axer · 17-02-2010 10:41AM

Ultravid wrote: »

I knew this would be misinterpreted.

The weakening of the faith refers firstly, imho, to the Bishops: when bishops lose faith they act like managers, not shepherds. Managers protect the company, shepherds guard the flock. Secondly, the lay people failed in their obligations too - did they pray for their priests and bishops? There is a saying that the people get the priests they deserve.

No it has not been misinterpreted. You have just proven my point and shown how stupid the pope is (and the reason why religion is dangerous) by his complete lack of understanding of pedophilia.

Priests raping and torturing children has NOTHING to do with prayer or faith.
The hierarchy of the catholic church covering up this abuse and allowing it to continue has NOTHING to do with prayer or faith.

fatmammycat · 17-02-2010 10:46AM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

so really the victims of abuse should be appologising to the church, for not praying hard enough and not being deserving of better than they got.

it is a pathetic notion, isn't it.

I know, I can't believe anyone would think something like that.

Hagar · 17-02-2010 10:55AM

I reckon God is gonna fnck those bastards up when they die. Do they not even read their own Bible?

Jesus wrote:

From Matt 18:1-6

At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?
And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them,
And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become
as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.
But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!
Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.
And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.
Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.

axer · 17-02-2010 11:04AM

Hagar wrote: »

I reckon God is gonna fnck those bastards up when they die.

but there is no god

Are you a closet thiest?

Lemegeton · 17-02-2010 11:04AM

hahahah lol. that guy is so funny with the ****e he comes out with. he should do stand up. while there he could tell the one about how the harry potter books are demonic and anti-catholic because it depicts magic and witchcraft and then explain how every sunday a priest turns bread into the body of a 2000 year old man by waving his hand over it and uttering a set phrase.

that one always gets me

Ultravid wrote: »

I knew this would be misinterpreted.

ah yes that old argument. everytime the church or the vatican makes a statement we are the ones who misinterpret them. or maybe we are applying logic and rationality to statements that make no sense.

Ultravid wrote: »

For an intelligent discussion of this

contradiction in terms right there. Religious people are incapable of intelligent debate

Naz_st · 17-02-2010 11:06AM

Ultravid wrote: »

You have to try to see this through the eyes of faith

Ah, faith, the key to religion and panacea to all our woes: keep believing ludicrous things, and all the problems of rationality and responsibility melt away. God has a plan. He works in mysterious ways. Faith.

Why don't you take off your rose-tinted faith goggles and look at it through the eyes of reason, justice and humanity instead: what you see is a powerful, rich and corrupt organisation whose members were elevated to a position of trust, and who used that trust to abuse and torture the most vulnerable people in our society, and who were aided in this by the religious hierarchy.

If anything, "faith" compounded the problem and provided the power and trust that enabled the abuse to continue and spread.

cavedave · 17-02-2010 11:11AM

Ultravid

but be warned: Father Z does not tolerate fools

That is not very Christian is it?

MrPudding · 17-02-2010 11:15AM

Ultravid wrote: »

I knew this would be misinterpreted.

The weakening of the faith refers firstly, imho, to the Bishops: when bishops lose faith they act like managers, not shepherds. Managers protect the company, shepherds guard the flock. Secondly, the lay people failed in their obligations too - did they pray for their priests and bishops? There is a saying that the people get the priests they deserve.

It takes a special kind of delusion to be able to take something like child rape and institutional abuse of women and twist it to such an extent that you believe, as I genuinely think you do, that the victims and their parents, are actually partially responsible for the abuse suffered.

The only possible way I think the church could look any worse after this is by saying the kids deserved it ‘cos they looked so cute.

Ultravid wrote: »

You have to try to see this through the eyes of faith. If you believe, then you will know that bishops are especially under attack by Satan and prone to making really bad decisions,

You have to see it through the eyes of people who operate in the real world. If there is no satan what is the excuse?

Ultravid wrote: »

especially if their own faith is weak, which comes about through personal neglect, but also cos of the pants formation many of these men received in the wacky days post Vatican 2.

I don’t have any religious faith. I have still thus far managed not to rape any kids. Does that mean I am special?

Ultravid wrote: »

IF Church morals and Canon Law had been followed and the faith actually lived from the heart, none of this would have happened.

Why do they need church morals and canon law to know that raping children is bad? Are they retarded or something? How about following common sense? Raping kids is bad. If you need church morals or canon law to tell you that then you are mentally deficient and you should not be anywhere near children.

Ultravid wrote: »

Instead, liberalism, modernism, and dissent became widespread, and still to this day. This is really quite relevant:

The only reason the abuse came to light is because of modernism and dissent. If it wasn’t for that kids would still be getting raped and priests protected and moved to new areas to rape again. The modernisation and spread of liberalism has released the grip the church has on society and made it clear that it is not ok for your priests to rape our kids and abuse vunerable women and no, we won’t stand for it anymore.

Ultravid wrote: »

http://www.chastitysf.com/q_guide.htm and this: http://www.chastitysf.com/q_church.htm

I don’t even know where to begin. I pity you.

Ultravid wrote: »

and these all show that really, we've all got ourselves to blame.

So the old “she was wearing a short skirt and had her boobs hanging out, she deserved to be raped” chestnut.

Ultravid wrote: »

Catholics in Ireland, in my view, bear a corporate guilt for what has happened;

I am going to ignore you earlier assertion that they are guilty because they did not pray hard enough for the priests and bishops and therefore left them open to attack from satan. That is wrong on so many levels.

I expect you are also apportioning guilt to the public because they did not complain or question what was going on. How could they? The church had spent hundreds of years setting itself up as an organisation that could not be questioned. They were the authority on all things. How could they be questioned. You yourself, and this offensive defence of this despicable organisation is proof of how effective they have been in this respect. Even after what has been revealed they have still convinced you they are fully to blame. Even after all that has been revealed you are believing the excuses and buying their idea that the victims and their families are partially to blame for the abuse. Deluded.

Ultravid wrote: »

though the great blame ultimately rests with bishops, I am sure there were many other people who failed in their duties.

Absolutely. Other people did fail in their duties, but again probably mostly for the same reason the people did not question it. The church had manoeuvred itself into such a position that even the government agencies supposed to protect the people could not question it. It does not excuse them, in my eyes, but at least it provides an explanation.

Ultravid wrote: »

For an intelligent discussion of this, with some interesting contributions, you can see here, but be warned: Father Z does not tolerate fools, and you must be registered to post on his site, which requires prior approval:
http://wdtprs.com/blog/2010/02/irish-bishops-should-restore-credibility-through-penance-in-lent/

Clearly he does tolerate fools. It is simply that his idea of a fool and mine are rather different.

MrP

Dades · 17-02-2010 11:19AM

cavedave wrote: »

Ultravid

but be warned: Father Z does not tolerate fools

That is not very Christian is it?

Father Z is a member of the Church of Baracus.

Sam Vimes · 17-02-2010 11:30AM

MrPudding wrote: »

The only reason the abuse came to light is because of modernism and dissent. If it wasn’t for that kids would still be getting raped and priests protected and moved to new areas to rape again. The modernisation and spread of liberalism has released the grip the church has on society and made it clear that it is not ok for your priests to rape our kids and abuse vunerable women and no, we won’t stand for it anymore.

I fully agree. This is all coming to light now because people won't stand for it anymore but who know how many generations were raped and brutalised when the catholic church was the unquestionable authority it used to be? Paedophilia is not new and I find it very hard to believe that the abuse suddenly started a few decades ago and before the evils of "modernism" the priests were all bastions of virtue. The only difference now is people are speaking out.

Bduffman · 17-02-2010 11:35AM

Ultravid wrote: »

I knew this would be misinterpreted.

The weakening of the faith refers firstly, imho, to the Bishops: when bishops lose faith they act like managers, not shepherds. Managers protect the company, shepherds guard the flock. Secondly, the lay people failed in their obligations too - did they pray for their priests and bishops? There is a saying that the people get the priests they deserve.

You have to try to see this through the eyes of faith. If you believe, then you will know that bishops are especially under attack by Satan and prone to making really bad decisions, especially if their own faith is weak, which comes about through personal neglect, but also cos of the pants formation many of these men received in the wacky days post Vatican 2. IF Church morals and Canon Law had been followed and the faith actually lived from the heart, none of this would have happened. Instead, liberalism, modernism, and dissent became widespread, and still to this day. This is really quite relevant:
http://www.chastitysf.com/q_guide.htm and this: http://www.chastitysf.com/q_church.htm and these all show that really, we've all got ourselves to blame. Catholics in Ireland, in my view, bear a corporate guilt for what has happened; though the great blame ultimately rests with bishops, I am sure there were many other people who failed in their duties.

For an intelligent discussion of this, with some interesting contributions, you can see here, but be warned: Father Z does not tolerate fools, and you must be registered to post on his site, which requires prior approval:
http://wdtprs.com/blog/2010/02/irish-bishops-should-restore-credibility-through-penance-in-lent/

This is possibly one of the most disturbing & saddest posts I have ever read. Proof that the RCC have learned nothing.

strobe · 17-02-2010 12:21PM

Dades wrote: »

Father Z is a member of the Church of Bacarus.

edit: spelling mistake on my end apparently.

Dades · 17-02-2010 12:42PM

strobe wrote: »

edit: spelling mistake on my end apparently.

Mine too... doh

Lemegeton · 17-02-2010 12:57PM

Bduffman wrote: »

This is possibly one of the most disturbing & saddest posts I have ever read. Proof that the RCC have learned nothing.

and sadly they never will:(

pinksoir · 17-02-2010 01:04PM

Ultravid wrote: »

I knew this would be misinterpreted.

The weakening of the faith refers firstly, imho, to the Bishops: when bishops lose faith they act like managers, not shepherds. Managers protect the company, shepherds guard the flock. Secondly, the lay people failed in their obligations too - did they pray for their priests and bishops? There is a saying that the people get the priests they deserve.

You have to try to see this through the eyes of faith. If you believe, then you will know that bishops are especially under attack by Satan and prone to making really bad decisions, especially if their own faith is weak, which comes about through personal neglect, but also cos of the pants formation many of these men received in the wacky days post Vatican 2. IF Church morals and Canon Law had been followed and the faith actually lived from the heart, none of this would have happened. Instead, liberalism, modernism, and dissent became widespread, and still to this day. This is really quite relevant:
http://www.chastitysf.com/q_guide.htm and this: http://www.chastitysf.com/q_church.htm and these all show that really, we've all got ourselves to blame. Catholics in Ireland, in my view, bear a corporate guilt for what has happened; though the great blame ultimately rests with bishops, I am sure there were many other people who failed in their duties.

For an intelligent discussion of this, with some interesting contributions, you can see here, but be warned: Father Z does not tolerate fools, and you must be registered to post on his site, which requires prior approval:
http://wdtprs.com/blog/2010/02/irish-bishops-should-restore-credibility-through-penance-in-lent/

Is this... is this real life?

seamus · 17-02-2010 01:34PM

pinksoir wrote: »

Is this... is this real life?

When the nature of belief is all written down in front of you, it really does seem like the plot of some bad fantasy book -

"Adam and his friends are living with his great-uncle Vlad, a quiet but kindly soul who is under the spell of the evil wizard Tansa, turning Vlad into a horrible dictator who makes Adam and his friends toil day and night in the fields. Only by combining their powers in a Circle of Truth, can Adam and his friends muster enough power to summon the good wizard G-od and release Vlad from Tansa's evil spell"

Stercus Accidit · 17-02-2010 01:43PM

Anyone else feeling just a little more depressed about this whole situation having read ultravid's post?

Apologists at their worst and most deluded, frankly, believing in the magic voodoo bs is easier to swallow than these excuses for child abuse.

That idiot, the pope

Comments