average money on the dole

questionmark? · 16-02-2010 01:36AM

El Weirdo wrote: »

I knew there'd be one.

u knew their would be one what?

One that would say that the vast majority of people wanted to work?

Or one that would find it hard to beleive that the average person on SW is on 35K a year?

Its an unfair figure to give as it paints a picture that everyone on the Dole is living it up? Their not.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 16-02-2010 01:36AM

axel rose wrote: »

Of course RA goes to the landlord. All rent (regardless of where it comes from) goes to the landlord. However the service (rented accommodation) is paid for by the government. It can be considered as part of the monies provided by the state to a person on SW.

For most people, working or not-rental and mortgage costs are probably their biggest expense.

I think the point he was trying to make is that the family have 20K to spend on what they need. That's a very very humble amount to live off for 2 grown ups and 2 children.

snow ghost · 16-02-2010 01:40AM

The problem with some of the analysis on the Kenny show was that when that guy kept harping on about the system in Australia, he didn't seem to have any comprehension that in Australia - unlike Ireland - there is a plethora of available job vacanacies.

He also didn't seem to realise that Australia also has a different work culture where casual work in prevalent and it is relatively very easy to quit a job and get another one the next day.

The program should have spent more time discussing the benefit cheats... notably couples who pretend they aren't living together and whereby the mother claims full benefits and the male partner is often in full time employment.

Then there is the nod and wink culture of people working in the benefits system who help out family friends, etc, and actually advice others not to bother getting a job as they would be worse off.

The genuine unemployed are not an issue, they are just unfortunate to lose work... and they are often penalised for being honest.

I know one guy who was unemployed for years and then when he ws told he could get back to work allowance and keep his rent allowance and full benefits he happily got a job until that ran out 4 years later. With his rent allowance, full unemployment benefit and medical card, as well as full time wages he was on as much money as a solicitor... farcical.

axel rose · 16-02-2010 01:45AM

No IAMXAVIER I wouldn't call it humble, nor would I claim that its massive either. If a family has no debts prior to finding themselves on SW and their basic needs are taken care of (IE rent, and medical costs, back to school allowance etc plus unforeseen costs can be dealt with by CWO). Then I consider it fair.

You couldn't live the high life but you wouldn't exactly be on the gutter either. Most people week to week. (but that's going off topic....sorry

)

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 16-02-2010 01:50AM

axel rose wrote: »

No IAMXAVIER I wouldn't call it humble, nor would I claim that its massive either. If a family has no debts prior to finding themselves on SW and their basic needs are taken care of (IE rent, and medical costs, back to school allowance etc plus unforeseen costs can be dealt with by CWO). Then I consider it fair.

You couldn't live the high life but you wouldn't exactly be on the gutter either. Most people week to week. (but that's going off topic....sorry )

Ah it's fairly humble alright AXEL ROSE... You wouldn't be buying any luxeries with that now. You can survive on it. That's about it.

axel rose · 16-02-2010 01:56AM

Quincy Sharp Between wrote: »

Ah it's fairly humble alright AXEL ROSE... You wouldn't be buying any luxeries with that now. You can survive on it. That's about it.

But isn't that the point? I don't mean this in a 'lazy spongers on the scratch' kind of way. However there are a lot of working people out there who cant afford luxuries now. Social Welfare is supposed to be about providing a person with the necessities until they can sort themselves out with a job. (granted that my take a while these days).

Do you feel that with a slowing economy, rising unemployment and reduced tax intake, that SW should be increased?

Apologies for the capitals, blame it on quick editing....

K-9 · 16-02-2010 02:31AM

Quincy Sharp Between wrote: »

It's quite possible for them to get that much if they claim everything and have their mortgage paid for too. Do they factor in medical cards also, which is going to be differant for each person? Is this the figure which the family get in their hand to spend on what they wish?

I guess we have a huge number of single people on there too which may get from 100 to 250 a week, factoring in rent allowance. Anyone I know on social welfare is on €196 a week.

I think you pay the first €24 or €25 on your rent and the government pay the rest up to €115 so you get €90 euro or there abouts for your rent in the best scenario. Figures may have changed over the past few months though.

It was factored on a married couple having 2 kids.

From memory, married couple would have about 16/17k on the dole, with 3/4k child dependent allowance.

Rent Allowance or mortgage interest relief needs to be added on, because if you work full time, you pay that yourself.

AFAIK, FIS was not factored in which could change the figures, though you could still end up better of on the dole.

Something is wrong there.

PS. Dogma will not help us out of this crisis. If you are earning 35k working with 2 kids, you should not be better of on Social Welfare.

Quincy Sharp Between wrote: »

I think the point he was trying to make is that the family have 20K to spend on what they need. That's a very very humble amount to live off for 2 grown ups and 2 children.

WalterMitty · 16-02-2010 02:34AM

Quincy Sharp Between wrote: »

Ah it's fairly humble alright AXEL ROSE... You wouldn't be buying any luxeries with that now. You can survive on it. That's about it.

35k is about the average wage. Many people in this country raise families on that amount and less as one person usually only worls and the other only works part time. Social welfare is just to get by on not to do anything non essential. You could feed a family of four for 100 a week. It's no suprise that the busiest dominos pizza store in the world is in Tallaght where there is a huge amount of welfare recipients.

USA · 16-02-2010 03:14AM

snow ghost wrote: »

The program should have spent more time discussing the benefit cheats... notably couples who pretend they aren't living together and whereby the mother claims full benefits and the male partner is often in full time employment.

This point can't be emphasized enough.

The total jobseekers benefit/allowance comes to roughly €4.5 billion per year. The total social welfare spending comes to roughly €21 billion per year.

This means if every single person in the country was in employment, we would STILL be spending €16.5 billion on social welfare.

It's the rent allowance (going into private landlords pockets) and childrens allowance that is driving the social welfare bill so high. This must stop.

I think people should leave the unemployed alone, the vast majority of them are there through no choice of their own and would jump at the chance of employment. The unemployed aren't the problem with social welfare spending.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 16-02-2010 03:25AM

axel rose wrote: »

But isn't that the point? I don't mean this in a 'lazy spongers on the scratch' kind of way. However there are a lot of working people out there who cant afford luxuries now. Social Welfare is supposed to be about providing a person with the necessities until they can sort themselves out with a job. (granted that my take a while these days).

My point is that people on social welfare do not have the great life that employed people think we do. People are on social welfare for over a year, if given the choice, those same people would be working now.

Do you feel that with a slowing economy, rising unemployment and reduced tax intake, that SW should be increased?

Not at all. They made a mistake raising it last year. I have no idea why they done that. I don't believe you should be able to buy luxeries, go out every weekend, have big buying power when you are on social welfare, I also believe that those on social welfare should not be held responsible nor should they be punished for being on social welfare, they should not have to answer to other citizens or have to put up with abuse that is regularly thrown at them.

K-9 wrote: »

It was factored on a married couple having 2 kids.

From memory, married couple would have about 16/17k on the dole, with 3/4k child dependent allowance.

Rent Allowance or mortgage interest relief needs to be added on, because if you work full time, you pay that yourself.

AFAIK, FIS was not factored in which could change the figures, though you could still end up better of on the dole.

Something is wrong there.

PS. Dogma will not help us out of this crisis. If you are earning 35k working with 2 kids, you should not be better of on Social Welfare.

If they took out a PPP then I wouldn't begrudge them that, although, those who took out massive mortgages that did not take on the PPP should be held accountable for their actions in some way.

For somebody on 35K a year to pay rent for themselves, they should not be paying a huge amount on rent. If they are, then it's time for them to move. Same said for people on social welfare. The limit is 115 a week (or there abouts) for a single person, and you have to put the first 25 to that. So you are getting 90 euro a week, roughly 4500 a year. I am not sure what that is for a family though.

WalterMitty wrote: »

35k is about the average wage. Many people in this country raise families on that amount and less as one person usually only worls and the other only works part time. Social welfare is just to get by on not to do anything non essential. You could feed a family of four for 100 a week. It's no suprise that the busiest dominos pizza store in the world is in Tallaght where there is a huge amount of welfare recipients.

I agree to the first part of your post, but not the last part.

You know where the second busiest AIB in Ireland is? Tallaght village

By your logic, this means that they are also the richest...

Seriously though, why are you making the connection between a pizza take out and Tallaght?

I can guarantee that this dominos pizza take out caters for more than any other dominos in Ireland. By that I mean, that shop covers a larger area and has a much bigger market. Tallaght is massive.

Also, fast food take outs thrive in a recession...

It can be cheaper to buy a take out than to buy the food and cook it yourself.

Pdfile · 16-02-2010 06:07AM

Trí wrote: »

Sorry, I know you're trying your best to be funny here but I think the above is grossly offensive to people like myself who are not pajama layabouts but rather, made redundant.

Think its a very insensitive and generalistic comment which labels all of the posters in a particular forum within the Boards community.

i was poor before the recession, ive not sympathy for anybody on the dole so enjoy your 4 cans of karpackie* and your pennys clothing, ima keep my job

* cheap polish beer - all dole heads drink it

snow ghost · 16-02-2010 06:34AM

Pdfile wrote: »

i was poor before the recession, ive not sympathy for anybody on the dole so enjoy your 4 cans of karpackie* and your pennys clothing, ima keep my job

* cheap polish beer - all dole heads drink it

A similar sentiment was often historically expressed by court jesters... they also got paid to be ar*eholes.

Sir Oxman · 16-02-2010 07:07AM

USA wrote: »

This point can't be emphasized enough.

The total jobseekers benefit/allowance comes to roughly €4.5 billion per year. The total social welfare spending comes to roughly €21 billion per year.

This means if every single person in the country was in employment, we would STILL be spending €16.5 billion on social welfare.

It's the rent allowance (going into private landlords pockets) and childrens allowance that is driving the social welfare bill so high. This must stop.

I think people should leave the unemployed alone, the vast majority of them are there through no choice of their own and would jump at the chance of employment. The unemployed aren't the problem with social welfare spending.

Rent Supplement cost 1.636billion euros over a 6 year period 2000-2005
http://www.audgen.gov.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=1030&CatID=5&StartDate=1+January+2010

Do local authorities have stocks of unused properties (bought up in the 'boom') that could be used at a decent rent-controlled rate for folks needing a hand with a roof over their heads?

Sir Oxman · 16-02-2010 07:10AM

Quincy Sharp Between wrote: »

My point is that people on social welfare do not have the great life that employed people think we do. People are on social welfare for over a year, if given the choice, those same people would be working now.

Not at all. They made a mistake raising it last year. I have no idea why they done that. I don't believe you should be able to buy luxeries, go out every weekend, have big buying power when you are on social welfare, I also believe that those on social welfare should not be held responsible nor should they be punished for being on social welfare, they should not have to answer to other citizens or have to put up with abuse that is regularly thrown at them.

If they took out a PPP then I wouldn't begrudge them that, although, those who took out massive mortgages that did not take on the PPP should be held accountable for their actions in some way.

For somebody on 35K a year to pay rent for themselves, they should not be paying a huge amount on rent. If they are, then it's time for them to move. Same said for people on social welfare. The limit is 115 a week (or there abouts) for a single person, and you have to put the first 25 to that. So you are getting 90 euro a week, roughly 4500 a year. I am not sure what that is for a family though.

I agree to the first part of your post, but not the last part.

You know where the second busiest AIB in Ireland is? Tallaght village
By your logic, this means that they are also the richest...

Seriously though, why are you making the connection between a pizza take out and Tallaght?

I can guarantee that this dominos pizza take out caters for more than any other dominos in Ireland. By that I mean, that shop covers a larger area and has a much bigger market. Tallaght is massive.

Also, fast food take outs thrive in a recession... It can be cheaper to buy a take out than to buy the food and cook it yourself.

Ah now, that bit is bull, that is!

Magenta · 16-02-2010 07:43AM

questionmark? wrote:

Slightly unfair comment IMO! The majority of people on the Dole want to work including Average and are unable to gain employment. Dont get me wrong their are people out their that see SW as a way of life these are the people who should be punished if they fail to look for a job or take a fas course.

35K??? seriously i find that hard to beleive.

Also the medical card is handy yes however they seem to take this as income but isnt it only of benefit to average if they have the misfortune to actually use it?

El Weirdo wrote: »

I knew there'd be one.

There's about 500,000 and maybe you should come down off your high horse, you could be next.

El Weirdo · 16-02-2010 10:08AM

questionmark? wrote: »

u knew their would be one what?

One that would say that the vast majority of people wanted to work?

Or one that would find it hard to beleive that the average person on SW is on 35K a year?

Its an unfair figure to give as it paints a picture that everyone on the Dole is living it up? Their not.

No. One that didn't get it.

Edit: Two.

Magenta wrote: »

There's about 500,000 and maybe you should come down off your high horse, you could be next.

Joey the lips · 16-02-2010 10:13AM

I have worked out that there is an adverage chance of 3.17 that this thread is fook all use at showing any stats........and to think the op though the govt could not do it.

:D:D

Magenta · 16-02-2010 10:14AM

El Weirdo wrote: »

No. One that didn't get it.

Edit: Two.

Maybe you should try to string bigger sentences together so people understand what you are trying to say.

Joey the lips · 16-02-2010 10:17AM

Magenta wrote: »

Maybe you should try to string bigger sentences together so people understand what you are trying to say.

eyee! Words of wisdom indeed!

:D:D:D

El Weirdo · 16-02-2010 11:01AM

Magenta wrote: »

There's about 500,000 and maybe you should come down off your high horse, you could be next.

Magenta wrote: »

Maybe you should try to string bigger sentences together so people understand what you are trying to say.

Or maybe I should draw pictures for some people who don't seem to get the joke.

meditraitor · 16-02-2010 11:17AM

The dole is crap, most working peoples wages are crap.

Who is living in our pockets??? Politicians, builders,bankers they are having a right laugh at us ordinary Joe's arguing with each other!!!!!!

we'llallhavetea_old · 16-02-2010 11:28AM

Pdfile wrote: »

i was poor before the recession, ive not sympathy for anybody on the dole so enjoy your 4 cans of karpackie* and your pennys clothing, ima keep my job

* cheap polish beer - all dole heads drink it

wtf?

are you serious????? :mad:

so so ignorant.

i'm on lone parents allowance, and i work part-time in a nightclub at the weekend. it was two nights, its now one night.

i have a five yr old daughter.

i want a job, so badly. there is nothing out there for me.

if you all wanna work out how much money i get in a yr feel free, my wages are €50 a week.

people on the dole do actually have bills as well you know.
i'm not saying that i am living in poverty by any means, i don't think anyone in this country is.

but i honestly don't know how anyone on the dole is satisfied with their income and dont want to work.

i would love the stress of a mortgage tbh.

Herb Powell · 16-02-2010 11:34AM

this might be a ridiculous suggestion, as I haven't a clue of economics, but might it be a good thing if landlords lowered their rent?

MaybeLogic · 16-02-2010 11:39AM

Herb Powell wrote: »

this might be a ridiculous suggestion, as I haven't a clue of economics, but might it be a good thing if landlords lowered their rent?

For those landlords struggling to cover the mortgage already, this wouldn't be a good thing.
I thought rents had come down by a good percentage in the last 2 years anyway. Supply is outstripping demand.

K-9 · 16-02-2010 01:04PM

Herb Powell wrote: »

this might be a ridiculous suggestion, as I haven't a clue of economics, but might it be a good thing if landlords lowered their rent?

They have come down 20-30% over the last 2 years and Rent allowance has been cut.

Quincy Sharp Between wrote:

If they took out a PPP then I wouldn't begrudge them that, although, those who took out massive mortgages that did not take on the PPP should be held accountable for their actions in some way.

For somebody on 35K a year to pay rent for themselves, they should not be paying a huge amount on rent. If they are, then it's time for them to move. Same said for people on social welfare. The limit is 115 a week (or there abouts) for a single person, and you have to put the first 25 to that. So you are getting 90 euro a week, roughly 4500 a year. I am not sure what that is for a family though.

AFAIK, there are conditions on claiming mortgage interest supplement and you maybe asked to negotiate with the mortgage company to reflect the changed circumstances.

As for rents, you still have to pay market rates, employed or not and it comes out of your pocket if you are working.

On that example, the single lad has to earn about €170 plus the €90 rent supplement so even a minimum wage job would be worthwhile.

Cases like that in the OP have a much bigger disincentive to work.

KevR · 16-02-2010 02:18PM

I'm glad they highlighted the issue of the 130,000 people who were on the dole in the boom times when there were plenty of jobs. Obviously some of these people would have genuinely been between jobs or unable to work. But there were/are people who point blank refused to ever try and get a job. A few people I knew when I was in school went straight on the dole when they finished school, they have never worked a day in their lives. They couldn't wait to get out of school to go on the dole. No ambition to work or contribute to society, all they do is drink all night and sleep all day - funded by taxpayers.

In my opinion, nobody should have the right to a life on benefits if they are genuinely able to work. The system has to change.

stovelid · 16-02-2010 02:24PM

KevR wrote: »

No ambition to work or contribute to society, all they do is drink all night and sleep all day - funded by taxpayers.

Worse still, I've heard there is even a hardcore who drink all day and sleep all night.

Can anybody confirm this?

we'llallhavetea_old · 16-02-2010 02:27PM

stovelid wrote: »

Worse still, I've heard there is even a hardcore who drink all day and sleep all night.

Can anybody confirm this?

they're adamant they're not wasting their time, but tbh i just can't see how they're not.

RoadKillTs · 16-02-2010 02:29PM

In my opinion, nobody should have the right to a life on benefits if they are genuinely able to work. The system has to change.

I agree, our social welfare system is far too soft. it's a huge cost to the tax payer.
I feel sorry for people who are unemployed and genuinely want to work, but there is a lot of people who are just exploiting the system.

MaybeLogic · 16-02-2010 02:30PM

stovelid wrote: »

Worse still, I've heard there is even a hardcore who drink all day and sleep all night.

Can anybody confirm this?

The worst is when the two groups get together. Then it's sleeping and drinking around the clock. I don't know where they get the energy from.

average money on the dole

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