average money on the dole

RoadKillTs

they're adamant they're not wasting their time, but tbh i just can't see how they're not.

Yes and to top it all off they are going out tonight aswell!
Its a national disgrace.

mathie

munstergirl wrote: »

That example on pat kenny 35k = 20k dole (person 1 10k,person 2 - 6k, 2 kids 4k + extras 15k (extras = rent allowance + medical card.) what they forgot to mention rent allowance goes to the LANDLORD! Single parent can get up to 1200 in rent allowance but its not spending money for them its for landlord.
Basically family 4 survive on 20k,

Basic economics fail.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

gambiaman wrote: »

Ah now, that bit is bull, that is!

Is it? Why don't you look it up? Good lad...

Mimikyu

This post has been deleted.

Wagon

Captain Morgan wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

That system to elegibility is already in place. You have to work enough and pay your PRSI to be intitled to it. the longer you have been working, the longer you are entitled to the dole. The alternative is Jobseekers Benefit. And why should the money decrease? It's not going to act as some sort of encouragement for people to find more work. The jobs just aren't there at the moment.

El Weirdo

Wagon wrote: »

That system to elegibility is already in place. You have to work enough and pay your PRSI to be intitled to it. the longer you have been working, the longer you are entitled to the dole. The alternative is Jobseekers Benefit. And why should the money decrease? It's not going to act as some sort of encouragement for people to find more work. The jobs just aren't there at the moment.

You are only entitled to JB for up to 12 months if you have made a minimum of PRSI 260 contibutions.

caseyann

I will give you a average.
Ok one parent family gets with 2 children 230 euro a week which is 920 a month.
say you are paying like this.
230
-20
-20
-25
-20 Bills a week and thats if bills stay consistent to your normal.
leaves euro145.00 a week to feed your kids bus fares or petrol if lucky to have a car.
There is no clothes in that maybe a tshirt.
So tell me all high and might ! How you think exciting happy lives the honest lone parent feels living on that ?

In case of medical cards on average how many times is an average child sick or person a year so bad they would go to the doctor to use said medical cards? I dont think as often as costing the country huge amounts of money.In the ratio they are making it seem like.
Rent allowance is their fault to.If those houses were allocated to their own Irish sorry if this sounds racist its in fact not and filled up them empty houses there is.Rent allowance payments would take a very quick fall.

caseyann

Captain Morgan wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

And they should be forced out to work,that's the governments fault for not making them work at any job or supplying the jobs for them.I saw someone say last night on front line.If they had given the fund to small business to open on one condition they take someone off the labour would be good idea.

snow ghost

The business community also has to take some responsibility for the situation whereby - when there is employment opportunities - there may be little motivation for some people to take minimum wage jobs because they are essentially better, or as well, off on Welfare.

Greedy businesses, and landlords, who pushed up prices during the good times are partially responsible for the dole being as high as it is as the cost of living rose. At the same time some of those same busnesses lobbied for the minimum wage to stay as low as they could get away with. Hence the dichotomy whereby there may be little motivation to take low paid jobs.

They wanted to get there cake and eat it, and they showed no due regard for the greater long-term good of the economy or society... this irresponsible self-serving avarice was prevalent in Celtic Tiger Ireland and was indicative of a economically immature society and business community that like a spoilt child in Wille Wonkers Chocalate factory went beserk, stuffing its face with no consideration for the consequences.

Anyone notice how - unlike welfare recipitents - there is never any mention of the greedy landlords who wouldn't accept rent allowance because they weren't paying tax on their investment properties? How much money did they diddle the state out of, through unpaid taxes?

El Weirdo

caseyann wrote: »

I will give you a average.
Ok one parent family gets with 2 children 230 euro a week which is 920 a month.
say you are paying like this.
230
-20 (Friday's beer)
-20 (Saturday's beer)
-25 (Sunday's beer)
-20 Bills a week and thats if bills stay consistent to your normal.
leaves euro145.00 a week to feed your kids bus fares or petrol if lucky to have a car.
There is no clothes in that maybe a tshirt.
So tell me all high and might ! How you think exciting happy lives the honest lone parent feels living on that ?

caseyann

snow ghost wrote: »

The business community also has to take some responsibility for the situation whereby - when there is employment opportunities - there may be little motivation for some people to take minimum wage jobs because they are essentially better, or as well, off on Welfare.

Greedy businesses, and landlords, who pushed up prices during the good times are partially responsible for the dole being as high as it is as the cost of living rose. At the same time some of those same busnesses lobbied for the minimum wage to stay as low as they could get away with. Hence the dichotomy whereby there may be little motivation to take low paid jobs.

They wanted to get there cake and eat it, and they showed no due regard for the greater long-term good of the economy or society... this irresponsible self-serving avarice was prevalent in Celtic Tiger Ireland and was indicative of a economically immature society and business community that like a spoilt child in Wille Wonkers Chocalate factory went beserk, stuffing its face with no consideration for the consequences.

Anyone notice how - unlike welfare recipitents - there is never any mention of the greedy landlords who wouldn't accept rent allowance because they weren't paying tax on their investment properties? How much money did they diddle the state out of, through unpaid taxes?

Totally agree with you they slipped under radar and bought more houses out of taxes they werent paying.

caseyann

El Weirdo wrote: »

Go away hahaha :P :pac: why do you drink more beer on sunday though

El Weirdo

caseyann wrote: »

Go away hahaha :P :pac: why do you drink more beer on sunday though

Because there's no work on Monday, of course!

K-9

caseyann wrote: »

I will give you a average.
Ok one parent family gets with 2 children 230 euro a week which is 920 a month.
say you are paying like this.
230
-20
-20
-25
-20 Bills a week and thats if bills stay consistent to your normal.
leaves euro145.00 a week to feed your kids bus fares or petrol if lucky to have a car.
There is no clothes in that maybe a tshirt.
So tell me all high and might ! How you think exciting happy lives the honest lone parent feels living on that ?

In case of medical cards on average how many times is an average child sick or person a year so bad they would go to the doctor to use said medical cards? I dont think as often as costing the country huge amounts of money.In the ratio they are making it seem like.
Rent allowance is their fault to.If those houses were allocated to their own Irish sorry if this sounds racist its in fact not and filled up them empty houses there is.Rent allowance payments would take a very quick fall.

Many Single parents working have as little as that, or even less, after rent and childcare.

I don't see why people point out that you can't have an exciting, happy life on it. It isn't supposed to be that and people earning double or maybe even triple that, don't have happy, exciting lives either.

What is your point about Rent Allowance. Sorry, I can't make it out.

we'llallhavetea_old

K-9 wrote: »

Many Single parents working have as little as that, or even less, after rent and childcare.

I don't see why people point out that you can't have an exciting, happy life on it. It isn't supposed to be that and people earning double or maybe even triple that, don't have happy, exciting lives either.

What is your point about Rent Allowance. Sorry, I can't make it out.

i don't expect to have a happy exciting life on the money i have but i hate it when people think that people on sw do have happy exciting lives.

edit: i'm not unhappy! i am happy, not very excited though....

Sir Oxman

Quincy Sharp Between wrote: »

Is it? Why don't you look it up? Good lad...

Look what up, *lad*?
How cooking your food at home is cheaper than buying take out every day?
Eh no, I'll trust my knowledge and cop on thanks.:rolleyes:

Mimikyu

This post has been deleted.

caseyann

K-9 wrote: »

Many Single parents working have as little as that, or even less, after rent and childcare.

I don't see why people point out that you can't have an exciting, happy life on it. It isn't supposed to be that and people earning double or maybe even triple that, don't have happy, exciting lives either.

What is your point about Rent Allowance. Sorry, I can't make it out.

I know plenty a girl who is working her ass off to get nothing with kids alone aswell.Whats your point i wasnt taking away from them.i know plenty of two parent families who are struggling to make ends meet aswell.Doesn't mean i see all labour or loan parent recipients as the cause of the economics in the country been fecked.
And don't tell me they live on less with kids because then they would get money off social.
Do you want to see children without proper food and clothes walking streets and no schooling because cant be afforded.Surely to god aren't you happy with the what is it 300 hundred 400 hundred book allowance in schools cut along with the twenty whatever along with the other taxed off their child allowance taxed now off loan parents soon to be more i am sure.
Create the poverty bracket it widen it.So as no woman with children could even dream of start looking for a job because either way waste of her time.
Lets heck do it all in one go and you know what wipe out all loan parents and other parents and their kids and the dole receivers because some cant get a job as they cant afford the childminders and when kids off school it goes up.

As for rent allowance we have so many non nationals getting that rent allowance here they never paid tax in their lives here.I am willing to bet 78 percent of all Irish receivers have paid taxes.But it should be abolished.And those empty houses we drive by in every estate fixed and allocated to people on rent allowance.


I have noted a few times girls i know who have applied for jobs have been turned down because they have kids.Ofc employers wouldn't admit that.
I recall there used to be jobs like what 10 to 2.To facilitate women who we rent earning enough to get a childminder.And when the kids were off for summer holidays couldn't afford the childminders cause the payments went up so they had to leave work entirely.
Now tell me the idea you have behind sorting out them situations?

cailineile13

cson wrote: »

Unemployment benefit;

UK: ~ £50
Ireland: ~ €150

So that disparity is only 2hrs up the road to Newry from Dublin and it's explained how exactly? Cos I don't know. And please don't anyone start giving this ****e about VAT/higher cost of living/cheaper fags & drink.... and so on.

Edit: To put it in more simpler starker terms; is it almost 200% more expensive to live in Dundalk than in Newry?

I don't know about groceries and cheaper fags/drink, but for a family with kids, or for someone who's ill on a regular basis...

Up North:
You don't have to pay for your visit to the doctor.
You don't have to pay for (basic) dentist visits (providing you can find an NHS dentist that is...:rolleyes:)
Your prescriptions are all a basic price (about £6.50 or maybe a bit more?) and you can buy a pre-payment card for 4mths/1 year that covers all your prescriptions, i.e. no matter how much they'll cost over the year, the amount you pay for the card is all you'll have to pay, no matter how many prescriptions you need.

If you're on the dole here without a medical card, or waiting to find out if you'll get one and you're ill, you're fcuked. I'm in that situation at the moment. I'm lucky enough that I get the full €196 each week. €100 of that goes straight to the landlord (which covers all bills, before peoples start telling me to move somewhere cheaper!) Allowing at least €20-30 for food, another €20-30 for transport (I car-share with a friend, and looking for work & going to interviews does not come cheaply unfortunately!) bin tags/house essentials, phone credit every 2-3 weeks, as well as the occasional treat of a night out/trip home to see the family (I'm only human!), and the money isn't slow in going out the door. One visit to the Doctor wipes out half of that instantly, never mind paying for prescriptions after that.

I honestly don't know if you could ever put an "average" figure on those on the dole, because everyone's situations are different. People give out about those on medical cards/claiming rent allowance etc, but that's not only people on the dole, it's people on low incomes too-e.g. my housemate is working, her take home pay is €246 p.w., she gets €65 for R.A. & has a medical card.

There's always two sides to every story. I'd say a lot of people who are fond of giving out about "dole layabouts on full benefits" are people who've never had the "enjoyable" experiences of pysching themselves up for several interviews in a week, spending their last €4.40 on the bus to & from the interviews, spending the week on tenterhooks hoping that they'll have a job by the following week, and then ending up hating the postman for delivering all the rejection letters.:(
(Although, it's nice to get the letters, as most places rarely give you that courtesy anymore...)

In the same way a lot of unemployed people think that people who have a job aren't allowed complain about it, because "they're lucky to have a job to complain about..."

Can't we all just get along and hate the politicians & bankers together....?!:D

questionmark?

cailineile13 wrote: »

Can't we all just get along and hate the politicians & bankers together....?!:D

I'm inclined to agree

irishh_bob

caseyann wrote: »

I will give you a average.
Ok one parent family gets with 2 children 230 euro a week which is 920 a month.
say you are paying like this.
230
-20
-20
-25
-20 Bills a week and thats if bills stay consistent to your normal.
leaves euro145.00 a week to feed your kids bus fares or petrol if lucky to have a car.
There is no clothes in that maybe a tshirt.
So tell me all high and might ! How you think exciting happy lives the honest lone parent feels living on that ?

In case of medical cards on average how many times is an average child sick or person a year so bad they would go to the doctor to use said medical cards? I dont think as often as costing the country huge amounts of money.In the ratio they are making it seem like.
Rent allowance is their fault to.If those houses were allocated to their own Irish sorry if this sounds racist its in fact not and filled up them empty houses there is.Rent allowance payments would take a very quick fall.

those with medical cards head to the doctor every time they have the slightest little sniffle , working people have to prioritise when they go to the doctor , also ,have you never been in A+E , its always full of skangers

caseyann

irishh_bob wrote: »

those with medical cards head to the doctor every time they have the slightest little sniffle , working people have to prioritise when they go to the doctor , also ,have you never been in A+E , its always full of skangers

That is sweeping generalisation and complete rubbish(So you know this because you can see into every surgery in Ireland and have been in every A+E in the country and can see all their cards?) damn you get around.Dont have to be on a medical card to be in A+E and be a skanger;) And now medical card heads haha hope you never lose your job and have to get the medical card and be one of them heads.
Been in A+E few times yes and happens to be late at night once or twice and they are guys who are slaughtered drunk and don't have to be on Medical card and on dole.

El Weirdo

irishh_bob wrote: »

those with medical cards head to the doctor every time they have the slightest little sniffle , working people have to prioritise when they go to the doctor , also ,have you never been in A+E , its always full of skangers

What absolute bollocks. I had a GP only Medical Card once and never even used it.

K-9

caseyann wrote: »

I know plenty a girl who is working her ass off to get nothing with kids alone aswell.Whats your point i wasnt taking away from them.i know plenty of two parent families who are struggling to make ends meet aswell.Doesn't mean i see all labour or loan parent recipients as the cause of the economics in the country been fecked.
And don't tell me they live on less with kids because then they would get money off social.
Do you want to see children without proper food and clothes walking streets and no schooling because cant be afforded.Surely to god aren't you happy with the what is it 300 hundred 400 hundred book allowance in schools cut along with the twenty whatever along with the other taxed off their child allowance taxed now off loan parents soon to be more i am sure.
Create the poverty bracket it widen it.So as no woman with children could even dream of start looking for a job because either way waste of her time.
Lets heck do it all in one go and you know what wipe out all loan parents and other parents and their kids and the dole receivers because some cant get a job as they cant afford the childminders and when kids off school it goes up.

As for rent allowance we have so many non nationals getting that rent allowance here they never paid tax in their lives here.I am willing to bet 78 percent of all Irish receivers have paid taxes.But it should be abolished.And those empty houses we drive by in every estate fixed and allocated to people on rent allowance.


I have noted a few times girls i know who have applied for jobs have been turned down because they have kids.Ofc employers wouldn't admit that.
I recall there used to be jobs like what 10 to 2.To facilitate women who we rent earning enough to get a childminder.And when the kids were off for summer holidays couldn't afford the childminders cause the payments went up so they had to leave work entirely.
Now tell me the idea you have behind sorting out them situations?

What was that about?

There are plenty of measures to help single parents get in the workforce. They can keep all or part of their wage, up to a certain limit, they can qualify for FIS up to certain wages and they may qualify for the doctors only medical card.

However, Social Welfare is our biggest bill, about €23/24 Billion, all things considered. Our tax revenues could be €30 Billion this year. See something wrong there? Does that mean I see them as the cause of the crisis? No. The figures speak for themselves.

My point was, using they have feck all money argument is poor as people out working and on relatively decent wages, have feck all money after housing and childcare costs.

In the example in the OP, a family with 2 kids, could get about 35k, not counting child benefit, which I'll come back to later.

A family with one income would need to earn 41k to earn that much. That is about €21 an hour.

Earnings 41k, tax of about €2,100, income levy €820 and PRSI and Health levies of about €3,000. Net pay of about €35,000.

God love them if they are Public Servants! They pay the new (6%) and old pension levies on top, though there is tax relief on them.

There is something wrong when somebody on 41k is better of on benefits. Remember they still have to pay rent and childcare. They are probably worse of going on average rents and childcare costs.

The poverty trap is already there and it is in favour of people staying on welfare.

Now, going back to child benefit, the Govt. ballsed up increasing it so much universally in the last 5/6 years, hell, that's why they cut it. PS. It isn't taxed, yet.

It's ridiculous that extra money was given to all families and we have no help for childcare. It should have been given as a childcare tax credit which would have had the added in recessionary times of automatically reducing its cost.

On your rent point, yes, I would love to see NAMA used that way. On immigrants, they shouldn't be able to come straight in and claim RA, thems the rules. If they are the CWO isn't applying the rules correctly, though they do have discretion.

There are fixes for these situations. While we have a situation that people on 41k are better of on the dole and taxes are going to increase in the next few budgets, the gap is actually going to widen.

There is something inherently wrong in a system that people who pay a small percentage of their income on rent and no childcare, are better of than people earning that money.

To address that poverty trap by just expecting wages to rise and no cuts in SW isn't living in the real world. Sorry, I'd love to say it can be done with no SW cuts, but it just can't.

lawhec

cailineile13 wrote: »

I don't know about groceries and cheaper fags/drink, but for a family with kids, or for someone who's ill on a regular basis...

Up North:
You don't have to pay for your visit to the doctor.
You don't have to pay for (basic) dentist visits (providing you can find an NHS dentist that is...:rolleyes:)
Your prescriptions are all a basic price (about £6.50 or maybe a bit more?) and you can buy a pre-payment card for 4mths/1 year that covers all your prescriptions, i.e. no matter how much they'll cost over the year, the amount you pay for the card is all you'll have to pay, no matter how many prescriptions you need.

First one is correct - doctor's visits are no charge, nor are A&E visits without a referral.
Second one about dentist fees, I'm not too sure about what exactly the fees are as they are a bit different compared to Britain and I haven't been inside a dentist now for years, but those on low incomes can get their NHS treatment either free or subsidised if as you say you can get an NHS dentist - there was a practice opened in Omagh not long ago that took on NHS patients, the only one locally, and there were queues to sign up.
Thirdly, prescriptions are a flat-rate of £3 up here, and they are to be abolished in April. At present the majority of prescriptions are processed free of charge if you're a child, pensioner etc. Essentially only working adults pay. Before the £3 charge was brought in around a year ago, they were £7.10 for a single prescription with discounts for certificates mentioned. One big difference I understand however is that prescriptions up here use generic medicines where possible, a GP will only only write out for a branded medicine if there is a specific reason for it or if no "generic" version is available, so in some cases where the prescription charge was/is £7.10 or £3, the NHS can make a profit on it to cover more expensive medications.

The JSA in N.I. is £64.30 p/w (around €73-74) with additional payments available under means testing, all listed here. TBH, the basic JSA is not much to live on even allowing for the cost of some parts of living up here, I'd hate to think of trying to live on that in some parts of London and a few other areas in England. Still stories do come out of ridiculous amounts of benefits claimed not too unlike the one that was the opening post of this thread and that it can be quite easy to fall into the "benefits trap" where minimum wage work doesn't be worth it compared to social security entitlements. Whoever wins the UK general election in a few months will have a job on their hands.

adamski8

munstergirl wrote: »

That example on pat kenny 35k = 20k dole (person 1 10k,person 2 - 6k, 2 kids 4k + extras 15k (extras = rent allowance + medical card.) what they forgot to mention rent allowance goes to the LANDLORD! Single parent can get up to 1200 in rent allowance but its not spending money for them its for landlord.
Basically family 4 survive on 20k,

Yeah and......they don't have to pay rent....(or a small contribution)
Thats one of the most illogical points i've heard.
You know what in that case I get paid something like 10 euro a week :eek: because my rent goes to my landlord and my my bills are paid to other people and when I get my shopping my money goes to tesco, etc, etc
So basically I survive on 10euro, how do I do it :rolleyes:

irishh_bob

El Weirdo wrote: »

What absolute bollocks. I had a GP only Medical Card once and never even used it.

it stands to reason that when a service is free , people will avail of it more , your exception to the rule does not change this

El Weirdo

irishh_bob wrote: »

it stands to reason that when a service is free , people will avail of it more , your exception to the rule does not change this

You implied that everyone with a medical card uses it for the slightest of ailments. My exception does change that.

caseyann

K-9 wrote: »

What was that about?

There are plenty of measures to help single parents get in the workforce. They can keep all or part of their wage, up to a certain limit, they can qualify for FIS up to certain wages and they may qualify for the doctors only medical card.

However, Social Welfare is our biggest bill, about €23/24 Billion, all things considered. Our tax revenues could be €30 Billion this year. See something wrong there? Does that mean I see them as the cause of the crisis? No. The figures speak for themselves.

My point was, using they have feck all money argument is poor as people out working and on relatively decent wages, have feck all money after housing and childcare costs.

In the example in the OP, a family with 2 kids, could get about 35k, not counting child benefit, which I'll come back to later.

A family with one income would need to earn 41k to earn that much. That is about €21 an hour.

Earnings 41k, tax of about €2,100, income levy €820 and PRSI and Health levies of about €3,000. Net pay of about €35,000.

God love them if they are Public Servants! They pay the new (6%) and old pension levies on top, though there is tax relief on them.

There is something wrong when somebody on 41k is better of on benefits. Remember they still have to pay rent and childcare. They are probably worse of going on average rents and childcare costs.

The poverty trap is already there and it is in favour of people staying on welfare.

Now, going back to child benefit, the Govt. ballsed up increasing it so much universally in the last 5/6 years, hell, that's why they cut it. PS. It isn't taxed, yet.

It's ridiculous that extra money was given to all families and we have no help for childcare. It should have been given as a childcare tax credit which would have had the added in recessionary times of automatically reducing its cost.

On your rent point, yes, I would love to see NAMA used that way. On immigrants, they shouldn't be able to come straight in and claim RA, thems the rules. If they are the CWO isn't applying the rules correctly, though they do have discretion.

There are fixes for these situations. While we have a situation that people on 41k are better of on the dole and taxes are going to increase in the next few budgets, the gap is actually going to widen.

There is something inherently wrong in a system that people who pay a small percentage of their income on rent and no childcare, are better of than people earning that money.

To address that poverty trap by just expecting wages to rise and no cuts in SW isn't living in the real world. Sorry, I'd love to say it can be done with no SW cuts, but it just can't.

For the most you make some good points.
For the bold in what they hand you to so called encourage you to go out and work they cut out in the other.And brings the outgoings more then the in comings.
Seriously when you look at the situation and you hear the experts telling them they are not making it possible for these women to go out and work.How do you figure they are?

Question for you,If you are alone with two kids are on loan parents and just barely living then go out get a job and it brings your likely hood of making ends meet like rent and bills and food and health care.Would you let yourself starve just for the privilege of working in a job you hate and not been able to pay your rent?

K-9

El Weirdo wrote: »

You implied that everyone with a medical card uses it for the slightest of ailments. My exception does change that.

Think there was a report done on the use of medical cards in NI. Surprise, surprise it was used more.

Now, do people use the NI system because it is free and readily available? Yes. Is it abused? Yes.

Having said that, I prefer their system. People shouldn't be sweating over €40/50 to visit a doctor.