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Girl Buried Alive In Honour Killing Horror

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    #92
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    MikeC101 wrote: »
    Add to that the phenomenon of Kurdish honour killings in Turkey, the majority of Kurds being Muslims, it's hardly all that much of a stretch.

    And add to that her name, Medine, apparently named after the Muslim Holy city of Medina. I think its fair to say that she was a Muslim.


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    #93
    wes
    Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    Well, firstly this is certainly a horrific crime and hopefully those responsible will be brought to justice.
    Minstrel27 wrote: »
    They want to join the EU? They should be told to feck off.

    So, let me get this straight, Turkey shouldn't be let into the EU due to the actions of criminals, who have been arrested for there crime? Sorry, but that is utter bull****.

    FFS, when we were let into the EU, the state was covering up all sort of crap being done in this country, and we were still let in. If we weren't told to **** off for the crap done here, then I don't see why Turkey should be. Membership of the EU hugely improved things here, and I think Turkey should be afforded the same opportunity. Personally, I don't see why Turkey should be excluded on the basis of the action of criminals who at least have been arrested, unlike here where our government covered up crimes, when we up for joining the EU.

    Also, EU membership, will mean better laws to punish this kind of crap, and Human Rights situation in Turkey has already improved due to them trying to join the EU, and if they joined it would improve even more.


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    #94
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    Kaizer Sosa wrote: »
    Ladies and Gentleman, I think we're about to have a mike-off.
    /feels saddened that mike65 wasn't around... :(


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    #95
    Red Hand
    Registered Users Posts: 4,986 ✭✭✭Red Hand


    Dudess wrote: »
    /feels saddened that mike65 wasn't around... :(

    I'm here in spirit

    -Mike

    Feel better?:pac:


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    #96
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    What am I saying? Mike65 is ALWAYS here!


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    #97
    Dyr
    Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Ah lad's don't go blaming this on islam just because the people who did it were backwards allah worshipping tools with the misogynistic worldview so unique to our muslim brothers...
    Only if you selectively quote from the Qur'an
    how do you selectively quote the words of a prophet? Did he put "within reason" at the end of his various musings?


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    #98
    old_aussie
    Registered Users Posts: 3,410 ✭✭✭old_aussie


    paperclip2 wrote: »
    One could imagine that there would have been a level of support for the actions of the father and grandfather although maybe not publicly expressed.

    There is a great level of support for the father and granfather, just look at all the onlookers and even security personel who just stood around and watched and did NOTHING to stop it.

    They should also be prosecuted.

    Surely this could not be part of islam, as it's such a tollerant, loving, gentle, forgiving and known for showing mercy religion. AND it's upon that religion that their culture is based.:rolleyes:

    Hope the father and granfather receive the same mercy and forgiveness that they displayed to the girl.

    So much for turkey being a civilised country


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    #99
    strobe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,872 ✭✭✭strobe


    Bambi wrote: »
    how do you selectively quote the words of a prophet? Did he put "within reason" at the end of his various musings?

    Read the original post that you quoted. Then read why he quoted that post. It makes perfect sense in the context. I understand what you are trying to say and happen to agree with you, but in this instance, he did put "within reason" at the end. He put something which could almost be directly translated as "within reason". Good game though. Good game.


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    #100
    Dionysus
    Registered Users Posts: 3,420 ✭✭✭Dionysus


    CreepingDeath wrote: »
    Should there not be a "Moral Outrage" forum for this sort of thing ?

    Good idea. And at the top would be Mukhtar Mai, the Pakistani woman who in 2002 AD was sentenced by a village council to be gang raped by the male villagers as a punishment for her 12-year-old brother having been seen in the company of a woman. The sentence was carried out and she was gang raped by 14 males.

    Barbarians.


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mukhtaran_Bibi

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/4620065.stm

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/4330335.stm


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    #101
    Son Of A Vidic
    Registered Users Posts: 32,370 ✭✭✭✭Son Of A Vidic


    Catholics in Spain throw live goats from church bell towers, the barbaric sport of bullfighting is also national pastime. The point I'm making here is the brutal killing in turkey is not reflective of the Islamic faith, rather the culture/region. A lot don't seem to get that point - no surprise there really though I suppose.


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    #102
    Voodu Child
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,706 ✭✭✭Voodu Child


    irishconvert wrote: »
    You also selectively quoted, I have highlighted the part you omitted:
    If any of your women are guilty of fornication, ask for four reliable witnesses from among yourselves against them; and if they testify and their guilt is proved, confine them to their houses until they die or Allah opens some other way out for them.[15] And the two, whether married or unmarried, who are guilty of this offense, punish them both. If they repent and mend their ways, leave them alone. Surely Allah is the Acceptor of Repentance, Merciful

    Im confused, are you trying to use this quote as an example of what a lovely religion it is?

    First it says 'your women', like they belong to men and have to answer to them.

    Then it says 'guilty of fornication'.... WTF?!

    And then it says 'confine them to their houses until they die'.

    And you are using this quote as an example of how religion couldn't possibly have anything to do with these honour killings? :confused:


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    #103
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    old_aussie wrote: »
    So much for turkey being a civilised country

    You do realise that this is illegal in Turkey? The father and grandfather are in Turkish police custody awaiting trial.


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    #104
    redout
    Registered Users Posts: 11,435 ✭✭✭✭redout


    These people are sick fcuks.

    Sharia law should be outlawed.

    Its the 21st century ffs.


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    #105
    old_aussie
    Registered Users Posts: 3,410 ✭✭✭old_aussie


    dvpower wrote: »
    You do realise that this is illegal in Turkey? The father and grandfather are in Turkish police custody awaiting trial.

    Yeah I know that they are in prison, but how does that make turkey a civilised country when many just stood around and did NOTHING.

    We'll see what happens at the trial


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    #106
    old_aussie
    Registered Users Posts: 3,410 ✭✭✭old_aussie


    irishconvert wrote: »
    .We were discussing if Islamic teaching allows honour killings.

    NO, we were discussing the MURDER of a little girl in a violent way.

    And who said it was islamic teaching??????????????

    Stop taking us off topic.


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    #107
    irishconvert
    Registered Users Posts: 1,866 ✭✭✭irishconvert


    old_aussie wrote: »

    Surely this could not be part of islam, as it's such a tollerant, loving, gentle, forgiving and known for showing mercy religion. AND it's upon that religion that their culture is based.:rolleyes:

    Ok, why then does it also happen in Sikh and Hindu communities?


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    #108
    irishconvert
    Registered Users Posts: 1,866 ✭✭✭irishconvert


    Voodu Child wrote: »
    Im confused, are you trying to use this quote as an example of what a lovely religion it is?

    First it says 'your women', like they belong to men and have to answer to them.

    Then it says 'guilty of fornication'.... WTF?!

    And then it says 'confine them to their houses until they die'.

    And you are using this quote as an example of how religion couldn't possibly have anything to do with these honour killings? :confused:
    I didn't bring up the quote from the Qur'an. Xluna posted it and was trying to say it encouraged honour killings. I was arguing against his/her point. It is clear that it doesn't and many other posters have accepted this fact.
    redout wrote: »
    These people are sick fcuks.

    Sharia law should be outlawed.

    Its the 21st century ffs.
    True, they are sick. It is NOT Sharia law. These people are acting on their own messed up cultural traditions.

    I have a friend who had the father of a girl he wanted to marry try to murder him. Both my friend and the girl are Muslims. The reason the father done this is because my friend is not from the same "class" as the girl. The girl had to move out of the family home as she was afraid of what the father would do to her. Totally messed up and nothing to do with Islamic teaching. The father is just an ignorant uneducated man.

    old_aussie wrote: »
    Yeah I know that they are in prison, but how does that make turkey a civilised country when many just stood around and did NOTHING.

    We'll see what happens at the trial
    Who stood around and done nothing? Where are you getting this information from?
    old_aussie wrote: »
    NO, we were discussing the MURDER of a little girl in a violent way.

    And who said it was islamic teaching??????????????

    Stop taking us off topic.
    I was talking to Xluna about the discussion we were having.


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    #109
    Buford T Justice
    Registered Users Posts: 6,250 ✭✭✭Buford T Justice


    Religion, No Religon, local custom, who cares?

    All thats important it that these people are sick fucks!


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    #110
    irishconvert
    Registered Users Posts: 1,866 ✭✭✭irishconvert


    Dionysus wrote: »
    Good idea. And at the top would be Mukhtar Mai, the Pakistani woman who in 2002 AD was sentenced by a village council to be gang raped by the male villagers as a punishment for her 12-year-old brother having been seen in the company of a woman. The sentence was carried out and she was gang raped by 14 males.

    Barbarians.


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mukhtaran_Bibi

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/4620065.stm

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/4330335.stm

    Good to see that the Imam of the local mosque encouraged the family to press charge against the rapists
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mukhtaran_Bibi wrote:
    The following week, a local Muslim imam (mosque prayer leader), Abdul Razzaq, condemned the rape in his sermon on the Friday after it occurred. He brought a local journalist, Mureed Abbas, to meet Mukhtaran's father, and persuaded the family to file charges against the rapists.
    Mukhtaran and her family went to the Jatoi police station on June 30, 2002 to file charges.


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    #111
    old_aussie
    Registered Users Posts: 3,410 ✭✭✭old_aussie


    irishconvert wrote: »

    Who stood around and done nothing? Where are you getting this information from?


    I was talking to Xluna about the discussion we were having.

    There were witnesses who reported what happened and who was around when it happened and where she was burried.

    And in a public forum you're talking to all involved.


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    #112
    irishconvert
    Registered Users Posts: 1,866 ✭✭✭irishconvert


    old_aussie wrote: »
    There were witnesses who reported what happened and who was around when it happened and where she was burried

    Well if what you say is true then I think we are in agreement then that they are as guilty as the father and grandfather.


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    #113
    enfant terrible
    Registered Users Posts: 4,561 ✭✭✭enfant terrible


    Dionysus wrote: »
    Good idea. And at the top would be Mukhtar Mai, the Pakistani woman who in 2002 AD was sentenced by a village council to be gang raped by the male villagers as a punishment for her 12-year-old brother having been seen in the company of a woman. The sentence was carried out and she was gang raped by 14 males.

    Barbarians.


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mukhtaran_Bibi

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/4620065.stm

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/4330335.stm


    They raped her little brother, then raped her as punishment for this.

    What kind of a country is Pakistan.


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    #114
    goose2005
    Registered Users Posts: 4,798 ✭✭✭goose2005


    irishconvert wrote: »
    There is NOTHING WHATSOEVER in Islam to justify this. In fact if you (or they had) read the Qur'an you find that they will be punished severly by God for doing this. Please educate yourself.

    Quran 4:15 If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, Take the evidence of four (reliable) witnesses from amongst you against them; and if they testify, confine them to houses until death do claim them, or Allah ordain for them some (other) way.”


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    #115
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,018 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    ^^^^

    Is there anything in the Quran that says: "If any of your women or men are guilty of posting something on an AH thread which has already been covered Take the evidence of four (reliable) witnesses from amongst you against them; and if they testify, stone them until death do claim them then bury them, then dig them up and stone them again" ?

    Because there should be really !


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    #116
    wes
    Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    redout wrote: »
    These people are sick fcuks.

    Yes, they are.
    redout wrote: »
    Sharia law should be outlawed.

    Well, in the Secular Turkish Republic, which is run under secular laws, and as such Sharia is for all intents and purposes irrelevant, especially as the perpetrators, are now under arrest and charged under Turkeys secular laws.


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    #117
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Newstalk had some guy on this morning talking about this case and related matters; a law or social science professor from some university in Ankara. Apparently honour killings are down following some changes to the law in Turkey that increased the chance of the perpetrators being prosecuted and jailed.

    But honour suicides are way up. These are where women are forced to commit suicide so that their fathers and brothers are spared the punishment that would otherwise follow if they carried out a murder.

    We share the planet with some truly fcuked up people.


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    #118
    irishh_bob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,700 ✭✭✭irishh_bob


    eamon dunphy on the marian finucane show today , claimed that sharia law had some good points to make , i always believed dunphy was a populist posing as a rebel but now i see that he is simply an attention seeker who in order to remain in the public eye , comes out with outrageous comments


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    #119
    Pygmalion
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,082 ✭✭✭Pygmalion


    Xluna wrote: »
    I would like to know how they repent. Of course in this case the victim was not able to repent being buried alive.

    In this case she obviously couldn't repent, because they killed her.
    The Q'uran says to put her under house arrest, not to kill her, in which case she has opportunity to repent.

    I mean obviously it's a backwards law now, but back in the 6th century (I think?) that would be pretty mild tbh.


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    #120
    Pygmalion
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,082 ✭✭✭Pygmalion


    goose2005 wrote: »
    Quran 4:15 If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, Take the evidence of four (reliable) witnesses from amongst you against them; and if they testify, confine them to houses until death do claim them, or Allah ordain for them some (other) way.”

    *sigh*, that's the EXACT quote someone else used earlier in the thread.
    And I believe the next sentence is something along the lines of "If they repent then leave them alone, for Allah is merciful".

    I mean I'm not saying I agree that Islam is the most progressive religion around but if the best you can do is take quotes completely out of context it doesn't help your argument.


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    #121
    Pygmalion
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,082 ✭✭✭Pygmalion


    Voodu Child wrote: »
    Im confused, are you trying to use this quote as an example of what a lovely religion it is?

    First it says 'your women', like they belong to men and have to answer to them.

    Then it says 'guilty of fornication'.... WTF?!

    And then it says 'confine them to their houses until they die'.

    And you are using this quote as an example of how religion couldn't possibly have anything to do with these honour killings? :confused:

    This was written a very long time ago, the fact of the matter is that at the time it was written women would have been considered property in 99% of the world.
    That wasn't a good thing but you have to consider the context in which this was written.

    The problem isn't the ideas, which were typical at the time, the problem is when people claim these ideas are still applicable in modern times.
    There are plenty of muslims who don't consider women to be property, in the same way there are Christians and Jews who don't (
    the bible says some pretty mean things
    )


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