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Girl Buried Alive In Honour Killing Horror

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    #122
    Angry Troll
    Closed Accounts Posts: 224 ✭✭Angry Troll


    horribly, at least they were arrested…thank god for kemalism and common sense…
    these honour killings are a sad reality in many islamic communities…also outside the islamic world proper…i remember similar cases in germany and elsewhere…

    also some info on wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honour_killing


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    #123
    irishconvert
    Registered Users Posts: 1,866 ✭✭✭irishconvert


    irishh_bob wrote: »
    eamon dunphy on the marian finucane show today , claimed that sharia law had some good points to make , i always believed dunphy was a populist posing as a rebel but now i see that he is simply an attention seeker who in order to remain in the public eye , comes out with outrageous comments

    Did he mention the points he thought were good?

    Do you know enough about Sharia Law to say there are no good sharia laws whatsoever?


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    #124
    techdiver
    Registered Users Posts: 3,077 ✭✭✭techdiver


    irishconvert wrote: »
    Did he mention the points he thought were good?

    Do you know enough about Sharia Law to say there are no good sharia laws whatsoever?

    Religious law, regardless of faith has no place in common law in a modern sensible society.


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    #125
    irishconvert
    Registered Users Posts: 1,866 ✭✭✭irishconvert


    techdiver wrote: »
    Religious law, regardless of faith has no place in common law in a modern sensible society.

    That is if you assume there are no modern sensible laws in Sharia.


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    #126
    techdiver
    Registered Users Posts: 3,077 ✭✭✭techdiver


    irishconvert wrote: »
    That is if you assume there are no modern sensible laws in Sharia.

    It's still laws derived from religious doctrine. Religion should be let no where near day to day running of state law.

    If you are talking about laws similar to that in Sharia being implemented in common law that is different. The two may just happen to overlap, but to have religious law legally binding as an institution is ridiculous.


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    #127
    meathstevie
    Registered Users Posts: 4,772 ✭✭✭meathstevie


    irishconvert wrote: »
    Funny how you pop up in any Muslim bashing thread.

    The verse can be interpreted as keep them in their house until they die, i.e. of old age.

    Which would also be illegal in Turkey.

    Bottom line is that blinkered religious inspiration is not a great way for coming up with solutions on how to run society. And that by the way is not an opinion I reserve for Muslims. Fundamentalist Christians and Jews disgust me in exactly the same when they go of on a rant that it's God's will that something is done in a certain way.

    Is it God's will that orthodox Jews slaughter Palistinians ? Is it God's will that Iraqi youngsters blow themselves up while killing scores of civilians ? Is it God's will that some poor sub Saharan African girl gets stoned to death for smiling at a boy ? Is it God's will that hundreds of American and British young lads have been killed in hopeless conflicts in the hellholes of this world ? In my backside it is. I for one am a very happy man living in a rather secular part of the globe where religiously deluded fanatics don't hold the reigns of power.


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    #128
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    old_aussie wrote: »
    We'll see what happens at the trial

    If the past is anything to go by they will get life sentences.
    Pygmalion wrote: »
    I mean I'm not saying I agree that Islam is the most progressive religion around but if the best you can do is take quotes completely out of context it doesn't help your argument.

    The point people are making is that exactly what you are saying. There are 'Muslims' who are taking parts of the Qu'ran out of context, interpreting it in their own special ways and using/abusing it in order to excuse themselves of horrible crimes. In the same way there are people who use the Bible to excuse horrible actions etc. The problem is when this is not acknowledged. Until you acknowledge how and why it happens it will never be stopped.
    Angry Troll wrote: »
    these honour killings are a sad reality in many islamic communities…also outside the islamic world proper…i remember similar cases in germany and elsewhere…

    Indeed. However the vast majority have one common denominator.


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    #129
    irishconvert
    Registered Users Posts: 1,866 ✭✭✭irishconvert


    prinz wrote: »
    Indeed. However the vast majority have one common denominator.

    Are you suggesting the common denominator is Islam? I have already pointed out that honour killings also happen in Sikh and Hindu communities.


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    #130
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    irishconvert wrote: »
    Are you suggesting the common denominator is Islam? I have already pointed out that honour killings also happen in Sikh and Hindu communities.
    prinz wrote: »
    It has less to do with Islam and more to do with culture and society..
    prinz wrote: »
    ... That's not to say honour killings are confined to any one grouping or religion.

    Perhaps you need to take off the blinkers and actually pay attention to what people are saying rather than try to put words in people's mouths when they have already made things clear. The vast majority of so-called "honour killings" are connected to those from pre-dominantly Muslim cultures. Not exclusively confined to Islam.


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    #131
    irishconvert
    Registered Users Posts: 1,866 ✭✭✭irishconvert


    prinz wrote: »
    Perhaps you need to take off the blinkers and actually pay attention to what people are saying rather than try to put words in people's mouths when they have already made things clear. The vast majority of so-called "honour killings" are connected to those from pre-dominantly Muslim cultures. Not exclusively confined to Islam.

    I would like to see you produce statistics that back up this claim.


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    #132
    Morlar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,273 ✭✭✭Morlar


    Originally Posted by prinz View Post
    Perhaps you need to take off the blinkers and actually pay attention to what people are saying rather than try to put words in people's mouths when they have already made things clear. The vast majority of so-called "honour killings" are connected to those from pre-dominantly Muslim cultures. Not exclusively confined to Islam.
    irishconvert wrote: »
    I would like to see you produce statistics that back up this claim.

    That has to be the most tedious, disingenous post I have seen on here in a long while.


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    #133
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    irishconvert wrote: »
    I would like to see you produce statistics that back up this claim.


    26. The report of the Special Rapporteur submitted to
    the fifty-eighth session of the Commission on Human
    Rights, in 2002, concerning cultural practices in the
    family that are violent towards women
    (E/CN.4/2002/83), indicated that honour killings had
    been reported in Egypt, the Islamic Republic of Iran,
    Jordan, Lebanon, Morocco, Pakistan, the Syrian Arab
    Republic, Turkey, Yemen, and other Mediterranean and
    Gulf countries, and that they had also taken place in
    such countries as France, Germany and the United
    Kingdom, within migrant communities.

    http://www.unhchr.ch/huridocda/huridoca.nsf/AllSymbols/985168F508EE799FC1256C52002AE5A9/$File/N0246790.pdf

    Again, what is the one thing that would link say Morocco and Pakistan?


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    #134
    MikeC101
    Registered Users Posts: 1,707 ✭✭✭MikeC101


    irishconvert wrote: »
    I would like to see you produce statistics that back up this claim.

    By its very nature, it's incredibly difficult to source / produce statistics for, but from this article "While precise figures do not exist for the perpetrators' cultural backgrounds, Diana Nammi of the Iranian and Kurdish Women's Rights Organisation says about two-thirds are Muslim. Yet they can also be Hindu, Sikh and even eastern European."

    This UN report says that "honour" killings tend to be more prevalent in, but are not limited to, countries with a majority Muslim population. ( Civil and Political Rights, Including Questions of: Disappearances and Summary Executions: Report of the Special Rapporteur, Ms. Asma Jahangir: Submitted Pursuant to Commission on Human Rights )

    In this article, of European Honor Killings, only two of the twenty four killings are not perpetrated by Muslims (the other two are Sikh).

    Nobody is saying that this issue is caused by Islam, or that honour killings don't happen outside Islamic communities, but there is an underlying common denominator in honor killings, that the majority are committed by Muslims, for whatever reason.


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    #135
    irishconvert
    Registered Users Posts: 1,866 ✭✭✭irishconvert


    prinz wrote: »


    http://www.unhchr.ch/huridocda/huridoca.nsf/AllSymbols/985168F508EE799FC1256C52002AE5A9/$File/N0246790.pdf

    Again, what is the one thing that would link say Morocco and Pakistan?

    From the same report you quoted, just two lines later:

    "She also noted that such murders were not based on religious beliefs but rather deeply rooted cultural ones. The report discussed fake honour killings, which were often committed in order to get compensation or conceal other crimes."

    So can we agree that these honour-killings are nothing to do with Islamic teaching, it is just that the murderers happen to be Muslim.


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    #136
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    irishconvert wrote: »
    So can we agree that these honour-killings are nothing to do with Islamic teaching, it is just that the murderers happen to be Muslim.

    Yes, which is what I have been saying. Now why do you think that is? Do you think it is possible that some Muslims are misinterpreting Islamic teaching to try and excuse their crimes?


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    #137
    irishconvert
    Registered Users Posts: 1,866 ✭✭✭irishconvert


    prinz wrote: »
    Yes, which is what I have been saying. Now why do you think that is? Do you think it is possible that some Muslims are misinterpreting Islamic teaching to try and excuse their crimes?

    It is possible but I don't know for sure.


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    #138
    Rycn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 722 ✭✭✭Rycn


    homerjay2005 wrote: »
    Animals. the amount of sickening sh*te that goes on in this world is appaling. at least some people are standing up to it and it makes the news, which may help to stop it, but god only knows what we dont know and never will hear about...

    at times like this, im happy we live in a country and culture thats knows, by in large, the difference between right and wrong. we have our scumbags, but this is wrong, wrong, wrong...

    hope the c*nts are buried alive themselves.

    What is right or wrong though?


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    #139
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,215 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    Not burying someone alive as punishment - right
    Burying someone alive as punishment - wrong


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    #140
    dazftw
    Registered Users Posts: 5,728 ✭✭✭dazftw


    She was 16... She probably didn't even know any better :(

    Network with your people: https://www.builtinireland.ie/



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    #141
    Rycn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 722 ✭✭✭Rycn


    Dudess wrote: »
    Not burying someone alive as punishment - right
    Burying someone alive as punishment - wrong

    Its wrong in your and mine sense of the world, but different cultures handle many different situations differently. Its horrible that this happened but at the same time theres similar things happening all over the world in other cultures - and to them things like this are 100% right in their mind.


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    #142
    Thoushaltnot
    Registered Users Posts: 582 ✭✭✭Thoushaltnot


    dvpower wrote: »
    Newstalk had some guy on this morning talking about this case and related matters; a law or social science professor from some university in Ankara. Apparently honour killings are down following some changes to the law in Turkey that increased the chance of the perpetrators being prosecuted and jailed.

    From that interview: I believe the law was changed in Turkey in 2005 so that the perpetrators of an "honour killing" can be jailed for life now.
    But honour suicides are way up. These are where women are forced to commit suicide so that their fathers and brothers are spared the punishment that would otherwise follow if they carried out a murder.
    These women are typically locked in a room, then handed in a pistol/rat poison/a knife and guiltripped into "sparing" their fathers/brothers from a jail sentence. Same crime - no, sicker - but without any justice.

    In addition, this lecturer gave a background to the case, which I hadn't heard elsewhere. She was one of 10 kids and the grandfather lived with them. Grandad seemed to think it was his right to use the females in his family as punchbags. She filed complaints to the cops on 4 occasions but nothing was done. Then she reported the grandad for possessing unregistered arms. He was jailed for a term, as a result. It looks more like revenge and to "show who's boss" that she was murdered.

    What was also mentioned was that by law, all children must go to school for 8 years. None of the girls in this family had received an education.

    Maybe the laws are in place in Turkey but what use is that if they aren't enforced to protect the most vulnerable?


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    #143
    Morlar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,273 ✭✭✭Morlar


    Rycn wrote: »
    different cultures handle many different situations differently. Its horrible that this happened but at the same time theres similar things happening all over the world in other cultures - and to them things like this are 100% right in their mind.

    I think the question of whether or not 'this is their culture' is irrelevant. If it is a cultural phenomenon then so what ? That just means that their culture & traditions are as barbaric & inhuman as they are.


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    #144
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,215 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    Rycn wrote: »
    Its wrong in your and mine sense of the world, but different cultures handle many different situations differently. Its horrible that this happened but at the same time theres similar things happening all over the world in other cultures - and to them things like this are 100% right in their mind.
    Some things aren't subjective - what was done to that girl is wrong, even if some people have been conditioned to believe it's not by a twisted, fanatical interpretation of their religion. And this isn't me saying "the West is better" - plenty of Muslims would also agree it's wrong. I don't think it's appropriate to be right-on and bring cultural relativism into this - a young girl was murdered ffs.


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    #145
    Rycn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 722 ✭✭✭Rycn


    Dudess wrote: »
    Some things aren't subjective - what was done to that girl is wrong, even if some people have been conditioned to believe it's not by a twisted, fanatical interpretation of their religion. And this isn't me saying "the West is better" - plenty of Muslims would also agree it's wrong. I don't think it's appropriate to be right-on and bring cultural relativism into this - a young girl was murdered ffs.

    I never said what happened was right. It was disgraceful - just to make my opinion clear.


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    #146
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,215 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    I know you don't think it's right, of course, but if this is a culture, it's not something to be defended - that's not intolerant, it's just common sense.


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    #147
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    The DA in the case wants them put away for life.


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    #148
    Morlar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,273 ✭✭✭Morlar


    Magnus wrote: »
    The DA in the case wants them put away for life.

    The DA and GRANDA should both be getting death not life for that. imo.


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    #149
    irishconvert
    Registered Users Posts: 1,866 ✭✭✭irishconvert


    Morlar wrote: »
    The DA and GRANDA should both be getting death not life for that. imo.

    Sounds like you are in favor of sharia law Molar! :D


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    #150
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    DA - District Attorney or whatever they're called in Turkey.


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    #151
    Morlar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,273 ✭✭✭Morlar


    irishconvert wrote: »
    Sounds like you are in favor of sharia law Molar! :D

    Pretty sure you know I am not in favour of sharia. Just the death penalty for animals like that :)


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