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Attitudes to Porn... Mod Warning Post 719

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  • #632
    Professey Chin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 51,054 ✭✭✭✭Professey Chin


    Jakkass wrote: »
    They don't just "turn up" though. They apply like everyone else to be a part of the porn show, they are even widely respected by porn stars for giving people the option out. It appears that you don't know the context. Watch some of their youtube videos.
    Because their own personal youtube videos wont be impartial at all and explain the full context.
    Just like ill really lose 40lbs in a week using that jml cross trainer cause the fitness people on the ad say so


  • #633
    pretty-in-pink
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,007 ✭✭✭pretty-in-pink


    Jakkass, I was going to quote again,but it's getting steadily off topic,

    The daily mail is a pretty sensationalist paper. I would take it with a pinch of salt.

    You can (and do) disagree with porn and its popularity. However while these things are consesual and do not walk down to road of obsession, I see no problem with it.

    Blaming porn for relationship and society problems is like blaming metal music or horror movies for school shootings. If someone is going to do something, then they will do it regardless. If it was truly the fault of some aspect of the media, then it would be a completely, 100% everyone who looks at this, does this scenarion. Which this isn't.

    It can be argued that anything at all is leading to the decline of society, its allin the agenda of whoever is saying it. Society, if its in freefall, is there because of itself. Not because porn is available, not because the church has to much/ to little influence, not because there are violent movies out there. Just becasue everything in life moves on a cycle, and as part of that there needs to be a down to come back up.

    Your view isn't contraversial by the way, its traditional. Can you see where I (and others here) are coming from? Ignore the religous side of your argument here. Just can you see where we are coming from, without seeing us as debased or heathens?


  • #634
    krudler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    The daily mail is an extremely right wing rag, full of homophobia, xenophobia, unwarranted hyteria and general hissy fittery. I would take it with a pinch of salt.

    FYP :D


  • #635
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    Alright, but are you saying that in a lot of cases marital strain cannot come from a porn addiction? I think that's a bit disingenuous to say the least.
    pretty-in-pink wrote: »
    Your view isn't contraversial by the way, its traditional. Can you see where I (and others here) are coming from? Ignore the religous side of your argument here. Just can you see where we are coming from, without seeing us as debased or heathens?

    I've already admitted, that I used to think in a very similar fashion to you and others on this thread.


  • #636
    Silverfish
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,698 Mod ✭✭✭✭Silverfish


    Well, we don't have to go right back to the OP and start from there, but I don't feel this is a religious thread, I think its a personal preferences thread.


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  • #637
    krudler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    Jakkass wrote: »
    Alright, but are you saying that in a lot of cases marital strain cannot come from a porn addiction? I think that's a bit disingenuous to say the least.

    Course it can, but addiction and couples or individuals watching/enjoying porn are two very different things, by your reasoning porn watchers will eventually become addicted, yet have no issue with moderate drinking. Marriages have ended though one party being addicted to shopping, golf, hell even World of Warcraft, so by your logic all those things are evil as well?


  • #638
    pretty-in-pink
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,007 ✭✭✭pretty-in-pink


    porn addiction and porn are two different things

    porn- its ok.

    the addiction? pursuing porn at the cost of jobs, relationships etc. thats not good.

    Same as anything, in moderations its ok, in obsession, its not.


  • #639
    Ickle Magoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,485 ✭✭✭✭Ickle Magoo


    Jakkass wrote: »
    Alright, but are you saying that in a lot of cases marital strain cannot come from a porn addiction? I think that's a bit disingenuous to say the least..

    Are you trying to suggest that 100% of the time marital strain comes from a porn addiction? Or could it be it's just one of a million reasons why people fall out of love with each other - to ignore the fact it's something that millions of perfectly happy couples partake of is equally disingenuous btw. :)


  • #640
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    ^^ Contrary to popular opinion, I'm not dense :) I don't think all marriages fall apart because of it no.


  • #641
    1sittingduck
    Closed Accounts Posts: 38 ✭1sittingduck


    Silverfish wrote: »
    This is getting off topic.

    Instead of discussing whether ladies agree with the Daily Mail opinion, it's now religion vs porn.

    Might I recommend a new thread in a different forum for that particular topic.

    Behold: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=63967193#post63967193.
    Just need to sort out the HTML in the first post. :o

    EDIT: HTML fixed. Anyone who would like to discuss/debate the ins and outs of porn from a religious/moral perspective is welcome to contribute to the new thread.


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  • #642
    Catari Jaguar
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,649 ✭✭✭Catari Jaguar


    Jakkass wrote: »
    I'm merely saying that if I were in relationship / marriage, I'd be fairly upset to think that I wasn't enough. Is this reaction wrong?

    Yes it is wrong. It's highly selfish too. Why on earth do you you think that you should 100% satisfy your partner?! People aren't jigsaw pieces that just slot together to complimant each other in every way. This is real life and not fairytale. Maybe if you like vanilla missionary sex and that's all your partner likes too then you'de have no problems.

    But if your partner likes something extreme and you aren't prepared to give it then no, they won't be fully satisfied. No one knows what their fetish/ turn ons stem from, hell, most people don't even know what their turn ons are! If a partner is unwilling to help you to explore or is unwilling to comply with your sexual desires then I totally understand why some people turn to porn secretly.

    The only dangerous part I see is the secrecy. But secrecy is always a betrayal and makes a fool out of a partner, be it about anything. Maybe if people were less judgemental and closed minded about pornography and sexual acts their partners might be more willing to be honest about their sexual needs and habits.
    Jakkass wrote: »

    Do you never think that there is more about these people apart from the notion that they are sexually attractive?

    Science has designed people to be attractive. And designed humans to be attracted to certain features. Why do you think men love breasts?! :D If you only judged people on the inside and not on sexually attractiveness/ chemistry then that would seriously affect the population.

    It's not shallow or wrong. It's biological. You can't moralise it.
    Jakkass wrote: »
    How would you feel if one of your children were involved in pornography? (If you don't have any regard it as a hypothetical).

    I'm someone's child. My sex life is none of their business. And are you discussing public or private porn. For pleasure or for cash? Professional or amateur? Backstage or in production? What about writing erotic fiction?

    And you'd be hard pressed to find a teen that hasn't uploaded slutty pictures of themselves to their FB or bebo. Even Miley Cyrus is at it! The sheer amount of "scene girls" posting underwear/topless pics up on sites is mind boggling!
    Jakkass wrote: »
    Do you think this is extreme?

    Yea, that was horrific and I'd rather not see that kind of thing
    Jakkass wrote: »
    It's referring not only to you, but to other users. tbh has said there are no rights and wrongs for example.

    Please try to leave this kind of stuff out of this topic (I mean to all involved in the Religious debate). It really has no place. And I'm not Christian, so I find Jesus/ God talk to be offensive to my personal beliefs.


  • #643
    1sittingduck
    Closed Accounts Posts: 38 ✭1sittingduck


    Just want to ask one question before I hope to continue things on the new thread:

    Just because someone mentions God and/or Jesus in a situation like this, does that mean that no further discussion in that line may be made in a pluralist "big thread" such as AH?


  • #644
    krudler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    1sittingduck wrote: »
    Just want to ask one question before I hope to continue things on the new thread:

    Just because someone mentions God and/or Jesus in a situation like this, does that mean that no further discussion in that line may be made in a pluralist "big thread" such as AH?

    But in AH it'll just descend into juvenile jokes and general assbaggery


  • #645
    Silverfish
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,698 Mod ✭✭✭✭Silverfish


    I'm just saying this forum is for discussing things from a woman's perspective, not a religious perspective.

    The last few pages have become a discussion on religion.

    Please, please, please, back on topic. Thank you.


  • #646
    musicmonky
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 214 ✭✭musicmonky


    This thread was on its last legs about (20 pages back), then serenacat lit a whooping great big fire underneath it and kept it going with very conservative views on peoples lifestyles. Then Jakkass steps in to keep the party line.

    Everyone is entitled to whatever views, conservative or otherwise. The alleged God gave us freewill. But don't expect anyone to pay any attention to your beliefs or be in anyway be influenced by them. You have your way and I have my porn loving way.

    The Bible quoting Robinsons are having a tumultuous time at the minute. I would presume, considering their religious stance their attitudes to porn would be abhorrent.

    Interesting lifestyles choices, indeed.


  • #647
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    I think the "fire" came more from people who were unwilling to let their positions be challenged legitimately (as the article does) rather than people who have conservative views of sexuality.

    I can relate to all those who I disagree with on this thread. Why? Precisely because I used to regard it the exact same way as they did.


  • #648
    Professey Chin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 51,054 ✭✭✭✭Professey Chin


    Jakkass wrote: »
    I think the "fire" came more from people who were unwilling to let their positions be challenged legitimately (as the article does) rather than people who have conservative views of sexuality.

    I can relate to all those who I disagree with on this thread. Why? Precisely because I used to regard it the exact same way as they did.
    You keep saying you used to regard it how we all did until you reformed.
    How old are you and how long ago did you reform?


  • #649
    Piste
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,440 ✭✭✭✭Piste


    I've started a thread in Clearasil and Hormones on young people's attitude to porn and if they think it affects their attitude to and expectations of sex, so we can see if porn people does have as big an influence on young men and women as is claimed.


  • #650
    Turtwig
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    Jakkass wrote: »
    I think the "fire" came more from people who were unwilling to let their positions be challenged legitimately (as the article does) rather than people who have conservative views of sexuality.
    .

    The article challenges pornography??
    Cool!!
    *Quick skim through*
    Ahh....maybe the OP was right.

    Point for Jakkass:
    [Apologies if it's already being mentioned, 44 pages is bit too much for my puny eyes]

    Lot's of people (of both sexes) have innate sexual desires, sometimes these desires become, well, overwhelming for many. If there was no pornography (or masturbation) for that matter how do you think these people would "release" themselves of such desires?


  • #651
    the_syco
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,310 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    shellyboo wrote: »
    Women, lock up your husbands, but not in a room with internet access.
    Sorry, but it was very hard not to LoL at this. Pity I was in work, or I'd be in stiches at the time :D
    Jakkass wrote: »
    1. I think there are advantages in waiting until marriage, and I think that this should be at least discussed in school considering that it is still a major force of thought in our society.
    To hell with that. I want to be compatible with whomever I marry: I don't want to find out that she likes only horror movies, has a lousy sense of humour, and doesn't like sex. You may ask what they have in common? They are items that you wish to have in common with your wife to be. Instead of trying X Y and Z, and finding out that she finds it painful, show her the positions on the net, ask would she be game, and go from there.
    Jakkass wrote: »
    I think the world would be a better place without the porn industry. I can't see it happening any time soon, but I think that we can promote this view as an option. To live without pornography.
    Before porn, we had peeping toms.
    serenacat wrote: »
    you can't have real intimacy with an object and sex is always about intimacy you can't have sex without intimacy.
    True, but **** ain't sex. It's a one man (or woman) job :D

    =-=

    As for the rest of the posting, jeebus, 17 pages :eek: will read them tomorrow.


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  • #652
    sam34
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,073 ✭✭✭sam34


    Jakkass wrote: »
    I think the "fire" came more from people who were unwilling to let their positions be challenged legitimately (as the article does) rather than people who have conservative views of sexuality.

    nope. as i have pointed out to you twice already in this thread (but you have yet to respond) the fire comes from the fact that those with conservative views are judging those with less conservative views, and making sweeping stupid generalisations.

    people are entitled to have conservative views, nobody is challenging that.

    however, they are not entitled to jump on a moral high horse and judge others who dont meet their "standards"

    some people seem to have a hard time understanding this, strangely enough. it isnt rocket science.


  • #653
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    sam34 wrote: »
    nope. as i have pointed out to you twice already in this thread (but you have yet to respond) the fire comes from the fact that those with conservative views are judging those with less conservative views, and making sweeping stupid generalisations.

    people are entitled to have conservative views, nobody is challenging that.

    however, they are not entitled to jump on a moral high horse and judge others who dont meet their "standards"

    some people seem to have a hard time understanding this, strangely enough. it isnt rocket science.

    Where did I say that I was better than anyone else?
    Lot's of people (of both sexes) have innate sexual desires, sometimes these desires become, well, overwhelming for many. If there was no pornography (or masturbation) for that matter how do you think these people would "release" themselves of such desires?

    You do realise that this also is done naturally by the body?


  • #654
    sam34
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,073 ✭✭✭sam34


    Jakkass wrote: »
    Where did I say that I was better than anyone else?

    <adopt sing-song playground voice> where did I say that you said that? :rolleyes:

    as you pointed out yourself earlier, this thread isnt about you


  • #655
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    That's what judging and a holier-than-thou attitude generally entails.

    It'd be great if we didn't get into ad-hominems and just discussed what the issues with pornography are, but a lot of people are more interested in discussing the poster rather than the moral problem with it.


  • #656
    Ickle Magoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,485 ✭✭✭✭Ickle Magoo


    Jakkass wrote: »
    ^^ Contrary to popular opinion, I'm not dense :) I don't think all marriages fall apart because of it no.

    So why keep citing marriage failure and the damage it does as reasons why pornography is "wrong". Can you link me the statistics of the percentage of marriages ruined by porn being viewed by one or more parties?

    There are literally thousands of things that can damage relationships if the parties involved are not considerate to each other of if they are done to excess, we don't call them "wrong" - we just make the assumption that adults are capable of telling the difference. To just point at the porn and say it's the issue full stop is far too simplistic a view of marriage and pornography, especially given all the happily married/attached people who use porn. I think you are just using it as a smoke screen because it something that you fundamentally disagree with for entirely different reasons.
    Jakkass wrote: »
    I think the "fire" came more from people who were unwilling to let their positions be challenged legitimately (as the article does) rather than people who have conservative views of sexuality.

    No, it came from a heap of crass generalisations about ALL people using porn being X, Y or Z and how a relationship couldn't possibly be healthy if those in used porn & women must be forced by their husbands to watch in & other such complete bs.
    Jakkass wrote: »
    I can relate to all those who I disagree with on this thread. Why? Precisely because I used to regard it the exact same way as they did.

    I felt really threatened by porn until the first relationship I had in which I wasn't really insecure, I learnt what fun it could be and after years of suppression and shame really discovered and revelled in my sexuality in general. Is that what happened to you too?


  • #657
    tbh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,914 ✭✭✭✭tbh


    Jakkass wrote: »
    Where did I say that I was better than anyone else?

    It's not overt, it's implied. You yourself would say that following Jesus' teachings is the only "right" way of life, therefore anyone who doesn't is following the "wrong" way of life. You just don't see it, because your attitudes are right in your eyes, therefore defending them isn't judgement, it's common sense (from your perspective). But there are many people who don't agree that porn is, in itself, "wrong". You said earlier that porn affects other people but moderate drinking does not. You're saying that one abstract "thing" is wrong, but another is "right". These things are, of themselves, neutral. It is only the opinions of those observing them that are being debated. Morphine, for example, in and of itself, is not "wrong", it's just a thing. Sometimes it can be helpful, sometimes harmful. It depends on the person using it.


  • #658
    Ickle Magoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,485 ✭✭✭✭Ickle Magoo


    Jakkass wrote: »
    It'd be great if we didn't get into ad-hominems and just discussed what the issues with pornography are, but a lot of people are more interested in discussing the poster rather than the moral problem with it.

    Hey, you specifically asked me what I would think about my kids getting involved & whether I thought you were answering honestly - you keep making it about the poster. :confused:


  • #659
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    Ickle Magoo wrote: »
    So why keep citing marriage failure and the damage it does as reasons why pornography is "wrong". Can you link me the statistics of the percentage of marriages ruined by porn being viewed by one or more parties?

    You're going in the opposite direction now. Not all marriages face this problem, but a lot of them do. The mere fact that this article is published is testament to the problems it can cause within marriage.
    Ickle Magoo wrote: »
    There are literally thousands of things that can damage relationships if the parties involved are not considerate to each other of if they are done to excess, we don't call them "wrong" - we just make the assumption that adults are capable of telling the difference. To just point at the porn and say it's the issue full stop is far too simplistic a view of marriage and pornography, especially given all the happily married/attached people who use porn. I think you are just using it as a smoke screen because it something that you fundamentally disagree with for entirely different reasons.

    You know I call it wrong not only for the problems it can cause within marriage, but the sexual objectification of other human beings.

    If you are going to discuss, leave out the "smoke screen" accusations? They aren't helpful.
    Ickle Magoo wrote: »
    No, it came from a heap of crass generalisations about ALL people using porn being X, Y or Z and how a relationship couldn't possibly be healthy if those in used porn & women must be forced by their husbands to watch in & other such complete bs.

    All porn objectifies women, porn can cause issues in marriages, people can become addicted to it. That's my viewpoint on the matter.
    Ickle Magoo wrote: »
    I felt really threatened by porn until the first relationship I had in which I wasn't really insecure, I learnt what fun it could be and after years of suppression and shame really discovered and revelled in my sexuality in general. Is that what happened to you too?

    Fun and enjoyment is a separate thing from ethics and morality. Sometimes doing the right thing means that people will do things differently.

    I'm not "threatened" by it, I just don't want anything to do with porn. I can live my life authentically without it.
    Ickle Magoo wrote: »
    Hey, you specifically asked me what I would think about my kids getting involved & whether I thought you were answering honestly - you keep making it about the poster.

    Rhetorical question != Personal attack


  • #660
    tbh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,914 ✭✭✭✭tbh


    Jakkass wrote: »

    All porn objectifies women, porn can cause issues in marriages, people can become addicted to it. That's my viewpoint on the matter.

    is that the only reason you find porn morally wrong? I know you've been ignoring me, but I'd appreciate an answer.


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  • #661
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    tbh wrote: »
    It's not overt, it's implied. You yourself would say that following Jesus' teachings is the only "right" way of life, therefore anyone who doesn't is following the "wrong" way of life. You just don't see it, because your attitudes are right in your eyes, therefore defending them isn't judgement, it's common sense (from your perspective). But there are many people who don't agree that porn is, in itself, "wrong". You said earlier that porn affects other people but moderate drinking does not. You're saying that one abstract "thing" is wrong, but another is "right". These things are, of themselves, neutral. It is only the opinions of those observing them that are being debated. Morphine, for example, in and of itself, is not "wrong", it's just a thing. Sometimes it can be helpful, sometimes harmful. It depends on the person using it.

    My attitudes are right, but this doesn't make me a "better" person. It means that I choose to follow a certain lifestyle, and I perceive it to be right. If it were my own view alone, and if I were saying that you are a lesser individual based on it (which I amn't). I'd be very much in the wrong.

    I haven't once argued that I am a better person than anyone else on this thread, I have only been vocalising my opposition to pornography.

    Considering that you don't believe there is any form of objective right and wrong, of course you're going to have to make this assumption to justify your position.

    Just because I hold position X, and you hold position Y, ultimately doesn't make me a better person in my eyes anyway. If I went into what makes someone a good person I'd be breaking Silverfish's advice, and I don't want to do that as she's been quite patient throughout the thread.
    tbh wrote: »
    is that the only reason you find porn morally wrong? I know you've been ignoring me, but I'd appreciate an answer.

    The only reasons I'm permitted to post, look back over the last few pages if you want more context. These are the main negative affects that it has.


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