Attitudes to Porn... Mod Warning Post 719

shellyboo

This comes up a lot in PI, and I've just read tripe an article in the Daily Mail on the same topic. According to the Daily Fail, porn is as "addictive as cocaine and just as damaging."

Some choice excerpts, do take with a massive pinch of ultra-conservative Daily Mail salt:

Daily Mail wrote:

I suspect thousands of wives who discover their husbands are watching porn are then left with a very modern dilemma: should you forgive them, or throw them out and try to explain to your children why Daddy has gone?

Daily Mail wrote:

According to Layden, online pornography is akin to having an addictive drug pumped into your house for free, 24 hours a day.
And unlike other drugs, which users can get out of their system, pornographic images stay imprinted in the brain.

Daily Mail wrote:

That view supports research by the University of Calgary, which has shown exposure to pornography puts men at an increased risk of developing sexually deviant tendencies and of experiencing difficulties in intimate relationships.

:rolleyes:

Now, this article is purportedly dealing with porn addiction, which is of course a very damaging thing in any marriage or relationship - just like an alcohol addiction or a drug addiction. However, it goes above and beyond in trying to demonise porn and scaremonger amongst women who "allow" their men to watch it.

Leaving all that aside, in the world of the Daily Mail, apparently women don't watch porn at all! It's just men. Women, lock up your husbands, but not in a room with internet access.

Personally, I think porn is very much a harmless diversion (apart from cases of addiction). I believe that most men are capable of using porn without getting addicted, and I believe that it's nothing more than a tool to aid masturbation, or a fun way to spice up couples' sex. I see it as the male equivalent of using a vibrator, and I also think that a lot of women overreact hugely to the idea of their men using porn.

So ladies, what do you reckon? Is porn dangerous? Do you mind if your partner watches it? Has it affected any of your past relationships in a bad way? Do you watch it yourself? Do you think we need to become more open and relaxed about porn, or has it gone too far? Discuss

Agent Smith

Daily Mail wrote:

According to Layden, online pornography is akin to having an addictive drug pumped into your house for free, 24 hours a day.
And unlike other drugs, which users can get out of their system, pornographic images stay imprinted in the brain.

It didnt take the internet to get men thinking about sex. Trust me.

pikachucheeks

shellyboo wrote: »

Leaving all that aside, in the world of the Daily Mail, apparently women don't watch porn at all! It's just men. Women, lock up your husbands, but not in a room with internet access.

Personally, I think porn is very much a harmless diversion (apart from cases of addiction). I believe that most men are capable of using porn without getting addicted, and I believe that it's nothing more than a tool to aid masturbation, or a fun way to spice up couples' sex. I see it as the male equivalent of using a vibrator, and I also think that a lot of women overreact hugely to the idea of their men using porn.

So ladies, what do you reckon? Is porn dangerous? Do you mind if your partner watches it? Has it affected any of your past relationships in a bad way? Do you watch it yourself? Do you think we need to become more open and relaxed about porn, or has it gone too far? Discuss

It's interesting you brought up this topic, I was actually considering starting a thread about it myself, having read so much about it in the media, as of late!

I couldn't agree more with what you've said. Like everything in life, it's something that should be enjoyed but not abused. If someone wants to watch porn, is legal to watch it and the porn itself features legal content, then why not? It shouldn't be something that's taboo, dirty or considered hugely dangerous.

People argue that porn is a negative, detrimental thing and should be outlawed because people get addicted. People also become addicted to shopping. Try combatting that one!

I'd also agree that some women overreact regarding porn and their partner watching it. I think some women feel highly threatened by it. In my opinion, a man watching porn is simply him having a bit of fun, exploring his fantasies and getting turned on. It has nothing to do with not finding his partner attractive, not being sexually fulfilled or considering an affair.

If I was with someone, I wouldn't have a problem with them watching porn! I think it's very healthy to have an appetite for sex, to be open to new ideas, trying new things and exploring your own sexuality! I wouldn't have a problem watching porn with him either!

Faith

shellyboo wrote: »

So ladies, what do you reckon? Is porn dangerous? Do you mind if your partner watches it? Has it affected any of your past relationships in a bad way? Do you watch it yourself? Do you think we need to become more open and relaxed about porn, or has it gone too far? Discuss

I don't think it's dangerous, no. I have absolutely no problem with my partner looking at porn, I'll even encourage him to tell me about it sometimes. I like to know what he watches and what gets him off. And I like to think that he's actually thinking of me when he knocks one out. I have watched it myself, the odd time. I'd like to watch it with my OH too, but I think he's a bit more shy about that than I am.

I think generally people are open enough about porn these days. It's much more widely accepted than it used to be. I don't really understand women who get up in arms about their boyfriends watching porn. I just don't understand what the big deal is. Equally, I don't care if my bf goes to a strip club on a stag night etc.

jellie

i have no problem with a bf watching it, unless it got to a point where hed prefer to watch porn instead of be with me.

it does seem to give some men unrealistic expectations and ideas though - "but they always do it in porn!" - eh yes im not a pornstar.

Das Kitty

Shellyboo, why on earth were you reading the Daily Mail??!

Very bad for the blood pressure.

shivvyban

I have no problem with porn whatsoever.

If he watched it or anyone else, its choice. As for the addiction thing, I think like everything else it takes certain people with certain attitudes, mentalities, etc. to get addicted to it.

Also, I'm talking about ... ummm... 'normal' porn... if I walked in to find someone watching Rebecca LooS Fúcking a pig and enjoying it... then I would be a little weirded out... :eek:

Kimia

i have absolutely no problem with my OH watching porn.

I agree with the above though. It's sad how young guys these days base their opinions of how women act during sex on porn films. The whole 'yes she will love when i grab the back of her head during a bj' or 'surely she'll love anal like my online women do' is very sad and gives these kids an unnatural expectation of themselves and their partners.

dearg lady

No problem with porn personally, or someone I'm seeing watching it, quite enjoy watching it myself, whether on my own or with someone, it's only a bit of fun sure! Obviously addiction is a whole other kettle of fish, but as you say, addiction to anything is problematic.

+1 on the nonsense of 'women don't watch porn'...what do they know really?!?!

pikachucheeks

sar84 wrote: »

it does seem to give some men unrealistic expectations and ideas though - "but they always do it in porn!" - eh yes im not a pornstar.

Actually, that's a good point! I'd hate to think men use porn as a weapon against women, to get us to try things we weren't comfortable with.

Although, in saying that, any half decent man would be respectful of your wishes and your boundaries.

If a woman does something in porn that you're not comfortable with, you shouldn't feel any pressure to carry it out at home! Some porn is just fantasy - and it can remain that way, perfectly detached from reality forever!

shellyboo

Das Kitty wrote: »

Shellyboo, why on earth were you reading the Daily Mail??!

Very bad for the blood pressure.

Heehee, someone tweeted the link and I read it. And yes, my blood pressure rocketed. The Sindo has the same effect on me.

Kimia wrote: »

I agree with the above though. It's sad how young guys these days base their opinions of how women act during sex on porn films. The whole 'yes she will love when i grab the back of her head during a bj' or 'surely she'll love anal like my online women do' is very sad and gives these kids an unnatural expectation of themselves and their partners.

Yeah, it's really sad and it's really becoming an issue - we're seeing some of it in the Brazilian thread over there as well. Men are expecting women to be fully waxed and anything other than that is weird to them. Obviously that's not the only factor, but it's definitely a contributor.

Hopefully though, it's mostly young men and they grow out of it. But then, is it leaving young women open to a lot of pressure? Are 15 and 16 year olds being expected to perform deep-throat oral right off the bat, or anal? That's something I'd definitely worry about - there's a curve of sexual exploration that we all go through and I think it's best happening naturally, through your own curiosity and experience, rather than, "I saw this in porn, let's try it..."

Kimia

Totally agree Shelly - I saw that in the Brazilian thread too and loved your latest response there!

I do think it's mostly young men though. I think as men get more experienced they realise that porn is completely and utterly different to how a real women will be with them.

It's a scary thought that young women these days (and they keep having sex younger and younger :eek:) are pressured into these situations. I can't tell you the amount of times I've heard stories (from my younger cousins) about young men pressurising women into 3somes, sometimes 4somes etc, anal, and a lot of other stuff that I never even knew about when I was a teenager!

It would be great if there was some way to educate teenagers that porn is not realistic and shouldn't be used as a benchmark. I know I sound really old (and I'm not I swear) but I actually despair when I think of how much pressure young teenage women are under these days.

If my OH said to me 'well they do it in porn!' he would get such a look of contempt from me (along with slight derised amusement) and then I would say 'Off you go then, best of luck with that' :pac:

MissFlitworth

It's not just the Daily Mail <spit spit> that's up to it, I read a completely bonkers article in the Guardian a few months back written by a woman who discovered that her husband was into bdsm porn after about 30 years of marriage. The amount of tears and heartbreak and trips to counsellors and psychiatrists to delve into his past and see what had him into it was just jaw dropping. I guess older people, older attitudes but jesus I felt so sorry for the poor fella spending years with his wife crying at him and moving into seperate bedrooms and dragging him off for therapy and trying to watch it with him and bursting into some more tears and eventually settling back down into life with him but constantly reminding him that things would never be the same again. Gah.

I have no problem with porn or with my boyfriend watching it. The only thing I'd be kinda squicked out a bit about is that the people in it are doing it fully informed and of their own free will and are being paid well and having their sexual health protected. I remember seeing some a while back and the girl in it was very thin (but with giant scarily badly done fake knockers) and very off her head looking and clearly was in no position to decide whether to be in adult movies or not. That was awful

shellyboo

Kimia wrote: »

I do think it's mostly young men though. I think as men get more experienced they realise that porn is completely and utterly different to how a real women will be with them.

Yes, and the lines are blurring more and more with the amount of "amateur" stuff that's out there - by its very nature, amateur vids are of couples who are naturally sexually adventurous. Filming yourselves can tend to be the last in the line of sexual experimentation, and so even when young men (and women) are watching what they consider to be "real sex" between a "real" couple, it's still not really a true representation.

But then, pressure to experiment is all part of sexual discovery - once you find someone willing to have sex with you, I think it's only natural to want to do all those things you've heard about or seen. Just the increased exposure to porn means the range of things you've seen is much, much greater.

Kimia wrote: »

It would be great if there was some way to educate teenagers that porn is not realistic and shouldn't be used as a benchmark. I know I sound really old (and I'm not I swear) but I actually despair when I think of how much pressure young teenage women are under these days.

If my OH said to me 'well they do it in porn!' he would get such a look of contempt from me (along with slight derised amusement) and then I would say 'Off you go then, best of luck with that' :pac:

Some sort of sex... education... you say? That'd be unheard of in this country. But that's another rant for another day!

To be fair, if a partner confronted me with someone I didn't want to do with the rationale "but I saw it in porn", I'd be asking him to propose outside Tiffany's New York and then go in and buy me the biggest diamond in the place "because I saw it on Sex and the City." Porn is not real life.

Kimia

shellyboo wrote: »

To be fair, if a partner confronted me with someone I didn't want to do with the rationale "but I saw it in porn", I'd be asking him to propose outside Tiffany's New York and then go in and buy me the biggest diamond in the place "because I saw it on Sex and the City." Porn is not real life.

I've changed my mind, THIS is what I would say.

Also, there should be a disclaimer added to every porn film! 'Not an accurate representation of every women everywhere'

Ha!

ztoical

shellyboo wrote: »

Do you watch it yourself?

Why when people use the word porn must it always mean some sort of video/film? I've several shelves packed with yaoi mangas and manhwas. There is some pretty hardcore comic work as well as written work out there and I don't mean rubbish romance mills &boon crap. I prefer books over film as most of the films just feel so fake, fake plastic everything, guys taking viagra, awful fake moaning sounds - I'm not looking for porn to have a story or decent acting or anything but looking at the faces they make would honestly put me off sex for life.

Xiney

I think Porn is absolutely fine in moderation once guys are old enough to realise that the women in the photos/movies are an overexaggeration of current male fantasy: plastic surgery agogo (not just boobs), makeup, hair, hair removal, lighting... not to mention their overzealous appreciation of deepthroating while getting DPed.

Porn isn't real life, but guys sometimes need a bit of visual help getting off. This is fine, and regular ejaculation is very good for the prostate

I think young girls may feel pressured because they don't look like or appreciate the same things the women in porn seem to. Young men are probably more able to accept a women with pubic hair because they're probably just like, "woo! minge!" and don't care... although if a young man has a few girlfriends in a row early on who have all been completely bare he may think that it truly is the "norm".

Vegeta

Kimia wrote: »

It's a scary thought that young women these days (and they keep having sex younger and younger :eek:) are pressured into these situations. I can't tell you the amount of times I've heard stories (from my younger cousins) about young men pressurising women into 3somes, sometimes 4somes etc, anal, and a lot of other stuff that I never even knew about when I was a teenager!

I agree with all of your points but I think this paragraph is a bit off the mark. Young girls are well capable of putting on a bit of pressure too.

On average girls begin puberty before boys (Marshal 1986 p. 176-7 or so wikipedia tells me) so can be more sexually advanced in their teens. BUT It all depends on the person too I suppose.

I think its not fair to say as a rule that young guys put pressure on young girls.

My youngest brother is 20, just out of his teens and he had slept with 10 girls by the time he was 17. One of the girls he slept with had 50 (that's not a typo) sexual partners by the time she was 15. I come from a small town in the country. She's an extreme example but girls can be sexually adventurous too and some ask for what they want.

Personally I see that as a good thing (the willingness to express yourself sexually, not an under age teen girl sleeping with a lot of guys)

On the porn issue, as others said if it is effecting a relationship in a negative way then its obviously bad but it can be great fun too if used in a responsible way. I wouldn't give 2 hoots if my girlfriend watched it.

shellyboo

ztoical wrote: »

Why when people use the word porn must it always mean some sort of video/film? I've several shelves packed with yaoi mangas and manhwas. There is some pretty hardcore comic work as well as written work out there and I don't mean rubbish romance mills &boon crap. I prefer books over film as most of the films just feel so fake, fake plastic everything, guys taking viagra, awful fake moaning sounds - I'm not looking for porn to have a story or decent acting or anything but looking at the faces they make would honestly put me off sex for life.

I think that's just the most popular type... obviously there's more niche stuff out there, but we're talking about the mainstream stuff that's widely available, that everyone has access to, and what effect that wide availability has.

I'd say that the sort of porn you consume - printed media for a start, and comic works - is as much a hobby and an interest to you as it is porn. It's like collecting erotic art, I guess. I wouldn't put that in the same category as watching porn online, which isn't a hobby for most people, it's just a diversion.

Odd though, as well, that using porn like that - comic book stuff that's just as graphic if not more so - is seen as somehow more high-brow and classy.

Kimia

Vegeta wrote: »

I agree with all of your points but I think this paragraph is a bit off the mark. Young girls are well capable of putting on a bit of pressure too.

On average girls begin puberty before boys (Marshal 1986 p. 176-7 or so wikipedia tells me) so can be more sexually advanced in their teens. BUT It all depends on the person too I suppose.

I think its not fair to say as a rule that young guys put pressure on young girls.

My youngest brother is 20, just out of his teens and he had slept with 10 girls by the time he was 17. One of the girls he slept with had 50 (that's not a typo) sexual partners by the time she was 15. I come from a small town in the country. She's an extreme example but girls can be sexually adventurous too and some ask for what they want.

Personally I see that as a good thing (the willingness to express yourself sexually, not an under age teen girl sleeping with a lot of guys)

On the porn issue, as others said if it is effecting a relationship in a negative way then its obviously bad but it can be great fun too if used in a responsible way. I wouldn't give 2 hoots if my girlfriend watched it.

That's very true. I suppose I was looking at it as a female and didn't think to make the point that yes of course young men are under pressure too. What I should have said is that young people have unrealistic pressures put on them from porn and it's awful to think that as a teenager (whether you're a guy or girl) you may feel that if you're not sexually adventurous or want to do 'what the porn stars do' there's something wrong with you.

Back on the porn issue - I totally agree with ztoical - a book is way more enjoyable than a film for me - I can use my imagination then and I'm not faced with random actors' 'sex faces' haha. Shudder.

sam34

i have no problem with porn really. wouldnt bother me if a guy i was seeing watched it (i kinda just assume most men do, tbh). ive watched it with fellas in teh past and watch it on my own sometimes.

ztoical

shellyboo wrote: »

I'd say that the sort of porn you consume - printed media for a start, and comic works - is as much a hobby and an interest to you as it is porn. It's like collecting erotic art, I guess. I wouldn't put that in the same category as watching porn online, which isn't a hobby for most people, it's just a diversion.

Have to disagree on some level for while yaoi and other adult comics might be hard to come by in Ireland they are very common in countries like France, Belgium, the States and very very common in Japan. You can find alot of what I would see as very hardcore hentai [ie straight pron] in a general newsagents in Japan, it is a very big business there. Same in France with the BD novels.

Same goes for books, there are alot of shops in the UK that are adult book shops and sell only printed material, not pictures, just written words that are are intense and hardcore, but then you don't need a special store to buy these books most of the bookstores in this country sell them, I've picked up several in Chapters...finding porn films on the other hand not so easy outside of the internet in this country, even the porns you find in "adult shops" in this country are pretty pg-13 when compared with what you'll find in an adult shop or hell the local gas station in places like Spain.

Ghost Train

Can see how porn could be an issue in a relationship/marriage, the article seems a bit over the top though

pornographic images stay imprinted in the brain

like what is that supposed to mean, yes its called "the brains memory" and "remembering things"

Don't doubt that porn addiction exists and is a problem for some small group of people but don't see it being a big factor in healthy relationships. If a relationship or sex life is going bad though, I wouldn't blame porn I'd blame the relationship.

As for young people, yes porn can be negitive because attitude towards sex can be formed around it, but you can't really stop them seeing porn etc, just have to make sure it doesn't replace sex education (whatever that is in ireland)

Otis Driftwood

The thing with porn in 2009 is that its easier to get than cigarettes and alcohol.In my early teens (Im 30 now) hard core porn was THE holy grail.It was virtually impossible to get your hands on unless a friends older brother happened to have one.I was probably 17 or 18 before I saw a porno movie but nowadays there are likely 15 year olds that have seen more porn than I have at twice their age.You can walk into most newsagents in Dublin today and pick up a hard core magazine but when I was growing up there was a massive furore when Playboy went on sale for the first time.Playboy is actually a great magazine and the odd time I would pick it up it is actually for the articles.It just happens to have tastefully shot naked women in it.

One potential problem as I see it,and a few have already touched upon it,is that porn is getting more and more extreme so it can give people,young males in particular,a skewed vision as to what sex is.They see the male performers pummelling their co-stars and think this is the norm.Likewise,they see the guys with wangs the size of a pringles can and get freaked out because they arent endowed like that.It can lead to desensitisation and blurring the lines between whats right or wrong.A few years ago my (then) 16 year old brother showed me a video he had on his phone of a woman giving a guy a blowjob.It was incredibly rough.I sat there,eyes agog while my brother laughed.

In general though,porn is a pretty harmless fantasy outlet.Personally I find it kinda boring nowadays.I know Id much rather have a nice steak than watch ready,steady,cook.;)

neuro-praxis

In my opinion pornography is a gross and miserable distortion of the beauty of human sexuality and is best avoided. Noting that degradation is a state and not a feeling, it is a prime example of the degradation of the human person.

Just because something gets you aroused doesn't mean it's good.

the_syco

shivvyban wrote: »

if I walked in to find someone watching Rebecca LooS Fúcking a pig and enjoying it... then I would be a little weirded out... :eek:

I thought you women liked pigs a guy in uniform? [/general stereotype] :P

cuckoo

ztoical wrote: »

I'm not looking for porn to have a story or decent acting or anything but looking at the faces they make would honestly put me off sex for life.

I got put off by the nasty bedspreads and hideous decor in the background in the small amount of porn I have seen! The only fantasies I ended up having were of giving the set a good clean, some paint and a 'changing rooms' makeover.

The line is blurred when it comes to addictions, and defining them. A tee totaller might not want to be with someone who has a few drinks at the weekend and might think of them as an 'alcoholic' - someone with a basic understanding of probability might think someone that buys a lotto ticket each week is a 'compulsive gambler' and everyone jokes about being addicted to their favourite brand of chocolate/watching GAA/a soap opera.

We are told that we should be aiming for 5 a day of fruit and veg, and there's advisories about how many units of alcohol a week - but there's no standard for porn. So, how someone describes their partner's porn habits ('harmless bit of fun'/'dangerous addiction!') is through the filter of their own feelings about porn.

I have no doubt that there are people out there who do feel an addictive urge to watch porn, and it has a detrimental affect on their work, lives and relationships.....but i think a lot of describing it as an 'addiction' is an easy way for partners to rationalise it ("it's not that he/she wants to watch that icky stuff, they're addicts and need help and can't stop themselves")

Emme

neuro-praxis wrote: »

In my opinion pornography is a gross and miserable distortion of the beauty of human sexuality and is best avoided. Noting that degradation is a state and not a feeling, it is a prime example of the degradation of the human person.

Just because something gets you aroused doesn't mean it's good.

Right on. Porn seems to be about degradation more than anything and it's mostly degradation of women. I worry when I think of the angry men who watch rough hardcore porn and they DO want to act those scenarios out with women! Sometimes I wonder about humans - you don't see that kind of degradation in the animal kingdom.

shellyboo

neuro-praxis wrote: »

In my opinion pornography is a gross and miserable distortion of the beauty of human sexuality and is best avoided. Noting that degradation is a state and not a feeling, it is a prime example of the degradation of the human person.

Just because something gets you aroused doesn't mean it's good.

Curious, n-p... where does the degredation come in for you? Not trying to start an argument, just curious about your opinion.

Presumably we can agree that the act of sex is a beautiful thing, you've said as much in your post. What makes porn degrading then, to you? Is it the intent to capture the act on film? The act of filming it? The showing of the act to others? Or the watching of it?

Really interested to hear your point of view.

shellyboo

Emme wrote: »

Right on. Porn seems to be about degradation more than anything and it's mostly degradation of women. I worry when I think of the angry men who watch rough hardcore porn and they DO want to act those scenarios out with women! Sometimes I wonder about humans - you don't see that kind of degradation in the animal kingdom.

It's not just angry men who watch hardcore porn

neuro-praxis

I consider pornography degrading to both the participants and the viewers because it is the industrialisation or commodification of the human person's most intimate self! I don't think that body and spirit (or heart or soul or whatever you might call it) are separate entities. I think that whatever is done to your body affects your spirit. If anyone I loved became a porn star I would be very sad and worried, even if they said they were happy. To have filmed sex in public for money is simply not, as far as I can see, what we were made for. To participate through masturbation in it is to be implicit in saying that it's ok for human beings just to consider themselves meatbags for moneymaking.

waraf

Das Kitty wrote: »

Shellyboo, why on earth were you reading the Daily Mail??!

Exactly. It's a xenophobic, Thatcherite, anti Irish paper and I can't believe a single person in Ireland reads it. The sight of it disgusts me.

Back on topic, porn has its uses. We're quite prudish in this country when it comes to sex so if someone wants to look at porn and they're not doing any damage let them at it. That quote in that absolute disgrace of an excuse for a newspaper about porn being as damaging as class A drugs is so badly thought out it's insulting.

Otis Driftwood

Emme wrote: »

Right on. Porn seems to be about degradation more than anything and it's mostly degradation of women. I worry when I think of the angry men who watch rough hardcore porn and they DO want to act those scenarios out with women! Sometimes I wonder about humans - you don't see that kind of degradation in the animal kingdom.

A come on,thats a bit of an over statement,no?Granted,some of the stuff out there is repulsive,but by and large the women in porn are treated very very well.Female porn stars,even starting out,generally get paid at least 3 times as much as their male counterparts for a scene.As they get more established they pick and choose when they will work and who they will work with and the vast majority of them say whats ok and what isnt.Watch any documentaries on the industry and the female stars say the same thing.They enjoy their work,they get very well paid,they are treated very well and its a safe environment.Your post is sensationalist in the extreme.

Emme

nedtheshed wrote: »

A come on,thats a bit of an over statement,no?Granted,some of the stuff out there is repulsive,but by and large the women in porn are treated very very well.Female porn stars,even starting out,generally get paid at least 3 times as much as their male counterparts for a scene.As they get more established they pick and choose when they will work and who they will work with and the vast majority of them say whats ok and what isnt.Watch any documentaries on the industry and the female stars say the same thing.They enjoy their work,they get very well paid,they are treated very well and its a safe environment.Your post is sensationalist in the extreme.

I think not. I agree with Neuro-Praxis when he says whatever we do to our bodies affects our souls. Some porn is plain silly but habitual viewing of porn burns out your soul and freezes your heart. The sad thing is that you don't realise what is happening until it's too late and you're too emotionally messed up to have a loving, intimate relationship.

JC 2K3

The comparison of porn, or sex for that matter, to drugs isn't wrong IMO.

However, rather than wanting to demonise porn/sex, I wish that people would have the same liberal, "it's fine in moderation" attitudes towards drugs, instead of the double standard. Sex, at the end of the day, is just a high.

I'm going to place devil's (God's?) advocate a bit here to make this discussion a bit more interesting. There are a lot of assertions here (not that I necessarily disagree), But how do you guys know that porn isn't a bad thing? It's very powerful, and markedly different to other distractions. I think it's something which has become almost too acceptable nowadays and I think many people overuse it without realising (not too dissimilar to cannabis or alcohol, I might add).

shellyboo

neuro-praxis wrote: »

I consider pornography degrading to both the participants and the viewers because it is the industrialisation or commodification of the human person's most intimate self! I don't think that body and spirit (or heart or soul or whatever you might call it) are separate entities. I think that whatever is done to your body affects your spirit. If anyone I loved became a porn star I would be very sad and worried, even if they said they were happy. To have filmed sex in public for money is simply not, as far as I can see, what we were made for. To participate through masturbation in it is to be implicit in saying that it's ok for human beings just to consider themselves meatbags for moneymaking.

Ok, yeah, but leave aside the money. Amateur porn, me and my (hypothetical) boyfriend film ourselves and put it up on a website cos we want to and it turns us on - can you put your finger on the part of that scenario that's degrading for you?

waraf wrote: »

Exactly. It's a xenophobic, Thatcherite, anti Irish paper and I can't believe a single person in Ireland reads it. The sight of it disgusts me.

If you read my reply you'd see that I don't read it... I saw a link.

rainbow kirby

I don't have any issue with porn as part of a normal sex life for a couple, or as a masturbatory tool. As long as it isn't taken to excesses it's fine.

The only thing I'd be kinda squicked out a bit about is that the people in it are doing it fully informed and of their own free will and are being paid well and having their sexual health protected.

This is a concern I would have too. Nobody should ever be forced into the porn industry, or filmed when they are under the influence of anything.

Otis Driftwood

Emme wrote: »

I think not. I agree with Neuro-Praxis when he says whatever we do to our bodies affects our souls. Some porn is plain silly but habitual viewing of porn burns out your soul and freezes your heart. The sad thing is that you don't realise what is happening until it's too late and you're too emotionally messed up to have a loving, intimate relationship.

So I take it that you are a habitual porn viewer that has had your soul burned out and your heart frozen?Because only someone speaking from personal experience could possibly make a statement as sweeping as that and expect to be taken seriously.

Can I ask,what would you deem habitual.Every day,twice a day etc.

To say people that regularly watch porn cannot form a relationship is ludicrous,it really is.

neuro-praxis

shellyboo wrote: »

Ok, yeah, but leave aside the money. Amateur porn, me and my (hypothetical) boyfriend film ourselves and put it up on a website cos we want to and it turns us on - can you put your finger on the part of that scenario that's degrading for you?

I suppose here we get onto the issue of identity.

If you and your boyfriend film yourselves having sex and then watch it back together (or even separately while both remaining in the relationship) I don't see a real problem, unless either one or both of you reached a point where arousal was only possible where a camera was involved. However I do think both parties would need to be pretty self-aware in this kind of scenario, so as not to develop an objectification of their partner. Incidentally I have come across a number of relationships over the years where one or both parties have truly objectified the other, leading to inevitable hurt. We are not things to get each other off - we are human beings and sex is a fun and beautiful way to express love. I suppose I should add that I (not surprisingly) feel sex ought to be confined to love relationships.

However if you and your boyfriend film yourselves having sex and then submit it to a public website, I honestly think something has gone astray. You are displaying your genitals on a public medium so that other people can stimulate their genitals while looking at you. I suppose for some people this is a self-esteem building measure - the "got it flaunt it" theme. But this is what I mean when I talk about identity. I keep my sexual practices entirely private, not because I am prudish (I'm happy to chat about it with close friends where appropriate and not for titillation), but because it is a pursuit that is between me and my husband and absolutely no-one else. I understand that others will not agree and feel that public sex and sex with multiple partners is fine: ok then. However I believe that if we are secure in our own identity and secure in our relationship, there will be no need to publicly prove our sexual prowess in the bedroom.

My identity is not in my appearance or what I can do in the bedroom. My identity is built on my character, and being filmed performing sexual acts (even the word perform is all wrong - sex is not a performance but an expression) would do nothing for my character.

My husband does not watch pornography. I know some men will find that hard to believe as porn is so all-pervasive. This is not because he does not find porn arousing, he is only human as are the rest of us, but he just doesn't want to support the industry.

shellyboo

neuro-praxis wrote: »

I suppose here we get onto the issue of identity.

If you and your boyfriend film yourselves having sex and then watch it back together (or even separately while both remaining in the relationship) I don't see a real problem, unless either one or both of you reached a point where arousal was only possible where a camera was involved. However I do think both parties would need to be pretty self-aware in this kind of scenario, so as not to develop an objectification of their partner. Incidentally I have come across a number of relationships over the years where one or both parties have truly objectified the other, leading to inevitable hurt. We are not things to get each other off - we are human beings and sex is a fun and beautiful way to express love. I suppose I should add that I (not surprisingly) feel sex ought to be confined to love relationships.

However if you and your boyfriend film yourselves having sex and then submit it to a public website, I honestly think something has gone astray. You are displaying your genitals on a public medium so that other people can stimulate their genitals while looking at you. I suppose for some people this is a self-esteem building measure - the "got it flaunt it" theme. But this is what I mean when I talk about identity. I keep my sexual practices entirely private, not because I am prudish (I'm happy to chat about it with close friends where appropriate and not for titillation), but because it is a pursuit that is between me and my husband and absolutely no-one else. I understand that others will not agree and feel that public sex and sex with multiple partners is fine: ok then. However I believe that if we are secure in our own identity and secure in our relationship, there will be no need to publicly prove our sexual prowess in the bedroom.

Hmm, cool. OK, that's a really interesting point of view. I'd agree with you that if you *need* to display such things in order to get aroused there is a problem, but outside of that, if it's just something a couple do for fun, I still don't see the harm in it.

I somewhat share your view on sex between you and your husband - I think it's something that should be kept private, out of respect for your partner more than anything else. But if *both* partners decide to share it with the world at large, and it's consensual and all that... I really struggle to see anything wrong in that.

neuro-praxis wrote: »

My identity is not in my appearance or what I can do in the bedroom. My identity is built on my character, and being filmed performing sexual acts (even the word perform is all wrong - sex is not a performance but an expression) would do nothing for my character.

Bit confused - your identity has nothing to do with your sex life, but your character does? But then you say your identity is based on your character... which is affected by your sex life... so surely it is related in some way?

For me, my sexuality is an enormous part of my identity.

neuro-praxis

shellyboo wrote: »

Bit confused - your identity has nothing to do with your sex life, but your character does? But then you say your identity is based on your character... which is affected by your sex life... so surely it is related in some way?

For me, my sexuality is an enormous part of my identity.

Let me try to clarify.

My identity is definitely linked to my sexuality, but not to my sex life as in, not linked to how I perform sexually. My sexuality is a part of the whole me, the whole woman, and would remain part of my identity even if I were single and celibate. I am trying to say I don't get self-esteem from how I "perform" in the bedroom, as my sexual relationship is very far away from those kinds of markers.

When I said,

being filmed performing sexual acts ... would do nothing for my character.

I meant - it would do nothing good for my character, so why would I do it?

And yes, my identity is based on my character, which is affected by how I behave sexually, or otherwise. And when I say behave sexually, I don't mean what I do in the bedroom. I mean that I feel that my character and whole self in fact would be adversely affected by certain sexual practices (being filmed during sex or being paid by a customer for sex for example).

Is that any clearer?

shellyboo

neuro-praxis wrote: »

Let me try to clarify.

My identity is definitely linked to my sexuality, but not to my sex life as in, not linked to how I perform sexually. My sexuality is a part of the whole me, the whole woman, and would remain part of my identity even if I were single and celibate. I am trying to say I don't get self-esteem from how I "perform" in the bedroom, as my sexual relationship is very far away from those kinds of markers.

When I said,



I meant - it would do nothing good for my character, so why would I do it?

And yes, my identity is based on my character, which is affected by how I behave sexually, or otherwise. And when I say behave sexually, I don't mean what I do in the bedroom. I mean that I feel that my character and whole self in fact would be adversely affected by certain sexual practices (being filmed during sex or being paid by a customer for sex for example).

Is that any clearer?

Yep, much clearer. Not sure I completely agree though


I mean, obviously it's not a life-affirming, "good", thing, but I'd say it could be pretty empowering for some people. I just think, and I don't mean to be offensive, that it's somewhat of an arbitrary thing to pick as a character-damaging act. I don't see anything in the act of simply filming something that you'd have been doing anyway as particularly bad, I suppose.

Perhaps it's in a way saying that simply enjoying your partner is not enough? That as well as being with the person you want to add an extra element to it (filming) and that somehow devalues the act itself?

Emme

nedtheshed wrote: »

So I take it that you are a habitual porn viewer that has had your soul burned out and your heart frozen?Because only someone speaking from personal experience could possibly make a statement as sweeping as that and expect to be taken seriously.

Can I ask,what would you deem habitual.Every day,twice a day etc.

To say people that regularly watch porn cannot form a relationship is ludicrous,it really is.

I viewed "soft" porn a few times on the suggestion of a boyfriend who didn't last very long. I wasn't impressed and haven't viewed porn since.

Das Kitty

Lots of people are focusing on the unrealistic expectations porn puts on women, but it also puts unrealistic expectations on men.

A lot of teenage boys watching porn start thinking that their penises are too small, that they're not producing enough ejaculate etc.

I think as long as people are mature enough to know that Porn isn't the real world, there's no harm in it. The problem is, a lot of teenagers aren't mature enough to know this or accept this.

I consume porn mostly in the form of erotic fiction, I find videos a bit quick and leaving nothing up to the imagination.

neuro-praxis

So are you saying Shellyboo you only approve of porn if it's home videos on the web? Realistically the vast majority of porn online is there to make serious money, it's not couples getting their jollies.

Das Kitty, erotic fiction is utterly different because, as the name implies, the characters involved are fictitious. This puts it in the category not of pornography but erotica.

Das Kitty

neuro-praxis wrote: »

Das Kitty, erotic fiction is utterly different because, as the name implies, the characters involved are fictitious. This puts it in the category not of pornography but erotica.

You should try reading what I read.

The people in porn are fictional characters too btw.

Lia_lia

I've never had issues with a partner watching porn.

I only watch porn if I want something ridiculous to laugh at.

That's it really!

DaveMaC

Emme wrote: »

habitual viewing of porn burns out your soul and freezes your heart.

So does working at a supermarket checkout....

minidazzler

Emme wrote: »

I viewed "soft" porn a few times on the suggestion of a boyfriend who didn't last very long. I wasn't impressed and haven't viewed porn since.

In a previous post you said that porn is "about degradation more than anything", But you have never watched any porn. Soft porn just isn't porn, it's gratuitous sexual content in a tacky movie. It's nothing you won't see in any normal movie really, especially movies from the 80's and 90's.

I enjoy porn as do a large proportion of men, I have seen some horrid pron and some very exciting stuff, but I would never say to a girl "but they do it in Pron". And any lad that does say that, you should just show him the 2G1C video, see if they would enjoy that.

d'Oracle

nedtheshed wrote: »

So I take it that you are a habitual porn viewer that has had your soul burned out and your heart frozen?Because only someone speaking from personal experience could possibly make a statement as sweeping as that and expect to be taken seriously.

Can I ask,what would you deem habitual.Every day,twice a day etc.

To say people that regularly watch porn cannot form a relationship is ludicrous,it really is.

Not just ludicrous, also offensive.

d'Oracle

Das Kitty wrote: »

Lots of people are focusing on the unrealistic expectations porn puts on women, but it also puts unrealistic expectations on men.

A lot of teenage boys watching porn start thinking that their penises are too small, that they're not producing enough ejaculate etc.

I think as long as people are mature enough to know that Porn isn't the real world, there's no harm in it. The problem is, a lot of teenagers aren't mature enough to know this or accept this.

+1