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M17 Gort-Tuam motorway or Claregalway bypass?

  • 27-11-2009 4:47pm
    #1
    Kiniska
    Closed Accounts Posts: 74 ✭✭


    I wonder is the Gort to Tuam road really what Galway needs, am I missing something? Commuting in and out of Galway is a nightmare and the recent flooding has exasperated this point. I understand that this proposed road will take away some of the pressure, so people traveling North/South on the West coast will be able to bypass Galway city and for those people this will be a great help, but I would assume this is a minority compared to the masses that commute in and out of Galway every day. I can see the proposed bypass around Galway helping those from places like Mayo Sligo and Donegal traveling to Shannon, although with RyanAir pulling out and Aer Lingus reducing their flights from Shannon, Shannon is almost finished. I also suppose that this proposed road would also help people from places like Limerick traveling to Enniskillen for Christmas shopping, but most of these people currently time their drives to avoid Galway rush hour, but I doubt the government wants to make Shopping in the North more accessible. My question is, aren't these people a very small percentage compared to all that commute in and out of Galway every day? Meanwhile areas like Claregalway have been crying for a bypass around the town for years, but our government in their inept wisdom have determined that a Gort-Tuam bypass is more important. I'm sorry, maybe I'm biased, but I just don't see it. Yes, a motorway from Gort-Tuam would be nice and it would divert some large lorries and maybe 1% of the total rush hour traffic away from Galway City, but a bypass around Claregalway would be a lot more efficient and help a lot more motorists.

    Now I also understand that they are planning on building the Gort-Tuam bypass using a concessionaire, but the NRA still has to pay for the land, the land costs for this could easily cost more than the entire, plus the Gort-Tuam bypass will be a toll road, another issue I won't get into at this time. Plus the traffic is bad enough that even if the Claregalway bypass was tolled it would still work, provided the toll was reasonable.

    Certainly I'd like to see both a Gort-Tuam bypass as well as a Claregalway bypass and I think Galway deserves both, compared to all of the great new roads built in other parts of the country, but we have to be realistic, in the current economic climate we'll be very lucky to get one of these bypasses and my vote is the Claregalway bypass, not the Gort-Tuam bypass. Will this Gort-Tuam bypass be another Road to Nowhere? I don't want to disrespect the needs of those in the North-West, but what's more important saving someone an hour on a journey they make once a year or saving 1,000 times that population 30 minutes of time twice a day everyday of the year? I'd be interested to hear the constructive opinions of others.
    Tagged:


«1

Comments

  • #2
    padraig71
    Registered Users Posts: 293 ✭✭padraig71


    While the Claregalway bypass is a pressing issue, I think we need a more long-term, joined-up approach to planning whereby fewer people would be commuting into and out of the city. Ideally people should live near their place of employment. Obviously, the massive over-inflation of property prices has been a factor here, as few workers have been able to buy in town. Meanwhile, the concentration of investment in Galway city has been to the detriment of other towns in the county. Public transport is also a key factor.

    The current floods seem to have caught the country on the hop. We know that climate change is happening and further 'freak' weather conditions are to be expected, and that planning and development based on short-term profit for the few have failed the many. We also know that oil is running out, and so we should be planning with foresight for the post-oil future.

    Not much consolation when you are stuck in traffic, probably, but there's a much bigger picture that we ignore at our peril.


  • #3
    biko
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,220 ✭✭✭✭biko


    Galway City->Infrastructure


  • #4
    Tech3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,010 ✭✭✭Tech3


    Is the Claregalway bypass even CPO'd yet?

    1% of the total rush hour traffic is an understatement. The road needs to be built for greater access of North west to South west traffic.


  • #5
    d.a.r.r.a.g.h
    Closed Accounts Posts: 80 ✭✭d.a.r.r.a.g.h


    The Idea of having a GORT-TUAM motorway is that both roads will intersect with the N6 near Athenry, at which both roads have access to galway. It also means that the western corridor is easily accessible without even having to pass Galway. This project is in no way a road to nowhere.


  • #6
    Kiniska
    Closed Accounts Posts: 74 ✭✭Kiniska


    padraig71 wrote: »
    While the Claregalway bypass is a pressing issue, I think we need a more long-term, joined-up approach to planning whereby fewer people would be commuting into and out of the city. Ideally people should live near their place of employment. Obviously, the massive over-inflation of property prices has been a factor here, as few workers have been able to buy in town. Meanwhile, the concentration of investment in Galway city has been to the detriment of other towns in the county. Public transport is also a key factor.
    Only so many people can live in Galway City, unless they start building urban high rises, probably not what most want in Galway.

    The traffic situation has gotten so bad and Claregalway is only 7 miles from Galway City, not exactly miles away. In most cities in the world people would die to be only 7 miles from work. But here that 7 miles can typically be over an hour commuting.

    Also it's more than just jobs, what about getting to doctors, hospitals and students getting to universities, secondary schools, etc.?

    But I do agree about needing better mass transportation, Galway will get proper mass transport in about 100 years after Dublin has a 100 DARTs, LUASes, Undergrounds and Subways. The Only Subway we'll ever see is the sandwich shops, which we have too many of.


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  • #7
    Kiniska
    Closed Accounts Posts: 74 ✭✭Kiniska


    d.a.r.r.a.g.h wrote: »
    The Idea of having a GORT-TUAM motorway is that both roads will intersect with the N6 near Athenry, at which both roads have access to galway. It also means that the western corridor is easily accessible without even having to pass Galway. This project is in no way a road to nowhere.

    I'm not saying we don't need a western corridor, but the number of people using this corridor would be dwarfed in proportion to the amount of people that commute in and out of Galway on a daily basis. And if Shannon is shut down, that disproportion will get even worse. Being that we need better infrastructure for people that need to commute every day should be a much higher priority than a desire to have a better western corridor for more occasional use.


  • #8
    Kiniska
    Closed Accounts Posts: 74 ✭✭Kiniska


    tech2 wrote: »
    Is the Claregalway bypass even CPO'd yet?
    No, despite many promises in the past.
    tech2 wrote: »
    1% of the total rush hour traffic is an understatement. The road needs to be built for greater access of North west to South west traffic.
    Well then of the cars sitting in traffic in Claregalway during rush hour, what do you estimate is the percentage of cars that are driving from Gort and points south to Tuam and points north? I can't see it being much more than 1%!


  • #9
    Head The Wall
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,892 ✭✭✭Head The Wall


    Gort is being bypassed at the moment, the Crusheen to Gort road will be joining the N18 at the Galway side of Gort, They aren't building all these Motorways to make getting to the North easier for shopping, They are linking up the main cities in the country.

    The problem with Claregalway is the traffic lights, why the council didn't just put in a pedestrian bridge over the road is beyond me instead of the millions that they have already wasted there


  • #10
    dec25532
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 809 ✭✭✭dec25532


    According to the most recent statement from the National Roads Authority, the Gort to Tuam contract will be awarded next October and construction will commence in early 2011 under a public private partnership. When and if it is completed, it is expected that all traffic from North Galway will use this road and there will be no need for a Claregalway bypass (hence the stalling). The NRA assumes that traffic from Tuam and beyond will be willing to join up with the traffic from the M6 at the superjunction at Rathmorrissey and then create a monumental backlog in Doughiska. I think not. The old N17 will continue to be used which still justifies a Claregalway bypass.


  • #11
    galwayrush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,815 ✭✭✭✭galwayrush


    The M17 was planned to run close to Loughgeorge by Galway CC to make maximum use of it,there were 4 possible routes on display, but the NRA went against this, because they felt that while admitting the vast majority of traffic was local to Galway City, it wouldn't be fair on the lesser number of drivers who would not be going to or ftom Galway to bring them closer to the City. Obviously this is different for other Cities / Towns, as it will go much closer to Sligo, Limerick. It will be great to have it, but it would be more practical if it doubled as a useful by-pass of Claregalway as well.


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  • #12
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Kiniska wrote: »
    I wonder is the Gort to Tuam road really what Galway needs, am I missing something?

    We need both .


  • #13
    Chris_533976
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,082 ✭✭✭Chris_533976


    The Gort to Tuam motorway will not solve the Claregalway problem. The Inner Relief Road as its called, will. And provide development land :(

    FWIW the part of the Rathmorrisey junction that connects the M18 north to M17 north (that flyover) will be the quietest motorway in the country.

    The route selection of the M18 and M17 around Galway is ridiculous, but better to build it now than wait another 5 or 6 years for it to get redesigned. Although we may be waiting that long anyway if the PPP fails.


  • #14
    schween
    Registered Users Posts: 444 ✭✭schween


    The first junction of the M18 will be at Labane I believe, which will immediately make almost all people between Ardrahan and Galway use the old N18.

    Is the new M18/M17 also about bringing new development to the west? I presume lots of businesses, residential developments will be encouraged in the region by it, no?
    Also is the new town of Ardaun (how's that looking actually?) being built along the new M6?


  • #15
    CerebralCortex
    Registered Users Posts: 3,809 ✭✭✭CerebralCortex


    Kiniska wrote: »
    Only so any people can live in Galway City, unless they start building urban high rises, probably not what most want in Galway....

    People are really going to have to come to terms with the idea that living in a city means exactly that.


  • #16
    Kiniska
    Closed Accounts Posts: 74 ✭✭Kiniska


    Head The Wall wrote: »
    Gort is being bypassed at the moment, the Crusheen to Gort road will be joining the N18 at the Galway side of Gort, They aren't building all these Motorways to make getting to the North easier for shopping, They are linking up the main cities in the country.

    The problem with Claregalway is the traffic lights, why the council didn't just put in a pedestrian bridge over the road is beyond me instead of the millions that they have already wasted there

    I was being sarcastic saying that the Motorways were being built to make getting to the North easier for shopping, but realistically, that will be one of it's main uses if the western corridor is every built, especially with the decline of Shannon.

    The traffic light in Claregalway isn't the only problem and a pedestrian bridge would just be a drop in the bucket, the volue of traffic needs a more significant solution.


  • #17
    Kiniska
    Closed Accounts Posts: 74 ✭✭Kiniska


    Chris_533976 wrote: »
    The Gort to Tuam motorway will not solve the Claregalway problem. The Inner Relief Road as its called, will. And provide development land :(

    FWIW the part of the Rathmorrisey junction that connects the M18 north to M17 north (that flyover) will be the quietest motorway in the country.

    The route selection of the M18 and M17 around Galway is ridiculous, but better to build it now than wait another 5 or 6 years for it to get redesigned. Although we may be waiting that long anyway if the PPP fails.

    My point exactly. The Gort to Tuam motorway will not solve the Claregalway problem or help resolve any of the Galway commuting issues and it will be the quietest motorway in the country. I also agree the route selection is ridiculous and it's obvious the powers that have selected this route are so out of touch and they either don't know what is needed in Galway or they just don't care.

    Yes, both a Western corridor and a Claregalway bypass are needed but the Claregalway bypass should have a much higher priority, but our Dublin based government don't understand this. Yes, if a better route selection was chosen, we could kill two birds with one stone, but unfortunately that isn't the case.

    Sad to say, we probably won't get either. I can't see any investor paying for the construction costs with the hopes of making money on a toll for a road less traveled.


  • #18
    d.a.r.r.a.g.h
    Closed Accounts Posts: 80 ✭✭d.a.r.r.a.g.h


    schween wrote: »
    The first junction of the M18 will be at Labane I believe, which will immediately make almost all people between Ardrahan and Galway use the old N18.

    Is the new M18/M17 also about bringing new development to the west? I presume lots of businesses, residential developments will be encouraged in the region by it, no?
    Also is the new town of Ardaun (how's that looking actually?) being built along the new M6?

    It looks like the M6 will be right down the middle of it


  • #19
    Kiniska
    Closed Accounts Posts: 74 ✭✭Kiniska


    schween wrote: »
    The first junction of the M18 will be at Labane I believe, which will immediately make almost all people between Ardrahan and Galway use the old N18.

    Is the new M18/M17 also about bringing new development to the west? I presume lots of businesses, residential developments will be encouraged in the region by it, no?
    Also is the new town of Ardaun (how's that looking actually?) being built along the new M6?

    I suspect due to the current recession, the building of Ardaun will be delayed, who's going to buy new houses in the current economic climate, unless they are deeply discounted and if that happened I could see the public outcry since it would destroy house prices that are already down.


  • #20
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    A quarter of all the houses in Galway are empty , there will be no building for years if not decades .


  • #21
    WallyGUFC
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,054 ✭✭✭WallyGUFC


    Head The Wall wrote: »
    The problem with Claregalway is the traffic lights, why the council didn't just put in a pedestrian bridge over the road is beyond me instead of the millions that they have already wasted there

    There was talk of a bridge or tunnel under the road but this was met with fierce opposition from certain locals who felt a tunnel would drastically increase vandalism, muggings etc etc...:rolleyes:


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  • #22
    louisa200
    Closed Accounts Posts: 78 ✭✭louisa200


    why on earth would anyone want to go from gort to tuam?? it seems very random... to access sligo, or ballindine... I cant see a gort to tuam unless somewhere there is a huge motorway to galway limerick and dublin......
    gort to tuam sounds to me like a proper road from nowhere to nowhere , i dont get the question maybe... maybe there should be a railine from gort to tuam to encourage local shopping or something, but gort to tuam to actually build a road makes as much sense to me as brian cowen in his helecopter at claregalway a few days agoxxxxxxxx


  • #23
    Tech3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,010 ✭✭✭Tech3


    louisa200 wrote: »
    why on earth would anyone want to go from gort to tuam?? it seems very random... to access sligo, or ballindine... I cant see a gort to tuam unless somewhere there is a huge motorway to galway limerick and dublin......
    gort to tuam sounds to me like a proper road from nowhere to nowhere , i dont get the question maybe... maybe there should be a railine from gort to tuam to encourage local shopping or something, but gort to tuam to actually build a road makes as much sense to me as brian cowen in his helecopter at claregalway a few days agoxxxxxxxx

    Your comment makes absoluetly no sense whatsoever. It's not nowhere to nowhere. It extendeds motorway/dual carriagway standard road from Limerick to Galway and then on to Tuam which will give easier access to the North west and west to the midwest and south. There is two cities on this road to nowhere you speak of, Galway and Limerick. It affects even further south Cork city access to Galway and north of it.

    I agree that both a Claregalway bypass needs to be constructed as well but I dont see the reason to link the two schemes to the discussion? Two seperate schemes for two different types of traffic.


  • #24
    Kiniska
    Closed Accounts Posts: 74 ✭✭Kiniska


    tech2 wrote: »
    I agree that both a Claregalway bypass needs to be constructed as well but I dont see the reason to link the two schemes to the discussion? Two seperate schemes for two different types of traffic.

    The reason for linking the two in this post is because the government is making efforts to proceed with the Gort - Tuam bypass, but no effort is being made about the Claregalway bypass, something that should have a much higher priority.


  • #25
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    The reason why is because the locals in Claregalway elected Noel Grealish to represent them and because there is no local campaign any more ( there was a few years back).

    I hereby point the finger straight at Claregalway itself.


  • #26
    Kiniska
    Closed Accounts Posts: 74 ✭✭Kiniska


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    The reason why is because the locals in Claregalway elected Noel Grealish to represent them and because there is no local campaign any more ( there was a few years back).

    I hereby point the finger straight at Claregalway itself.

    SpongeBob,

    Now you're starting to sound like our Government, pointing fingers and blaming someone else with no solution. I'm tired of this!!

    And don't get me started on Noel Grealish, I had to laugh during the last election his only real claim to fame was getting the traffic light at Carnmore Cross. It's pretty sad when you're a TD for a years and your only claim to fame is getting the traffic light and that was when he was in the power seat of the FF-PD coalition government, so what can we expect from him now that he is in lame duck mode?

    But seriously, something should be done about Claregalway, plenty of promises were made by Grealish and others, but it just keeps getting worse.

    But the government thinks the Gort - Tuam bypass is more important, even though it won't get much use and there will be very little benefit from it, compared to other areas where our money would be better spent. But what do we know, it's only our tax money and we only live here!!


  • #27
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Kiniska wrote: »
    SpongeBob,
    Now you're starting to sound like our Government, pointing fingers and blaming someone else with no solution. I'm tired of this!!

    I posted the solution, build BOTH the Claregalway relief road AND the M17.

    However Claregalway people have not campaigned properly in recent years or remained active on the relief road which is why it is not being progressed. If you want something you must battle for it and absolutely hound the likes of Fahey and Grealish every minute they are in Galway.

    Kinnegad and Enfield got their relief roads while waiting for the motorway. They fought for them unlike Claregalway people.

    It is all your own fault basically. I am pointing the finger straight at you! What have you EVER done yourself apart form tell an internet forum how pissed off you are? :D


  • #28
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,121 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Claregalway is on the edge of Galway west - the pain is spread across the two constituencies.


  • #29
    serfboard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,720 ✭✭✭serfboard


    schween wrote: »
    The first junction of the M18 will be at Labane I believe

    Incorrect. The junction will be at Kiltiernan - half way between Kilcolgan and Ardrahan (see the PDF here).


  • #30
    westtip
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    louisa200 wrote: »
    why on earth would anyone want to go from gort to tuam?? it seems very random... to access sligo, or ballindine... I cant see a gort to tuam unless somewhere there is a huge motorway to galway limerick and dublin......
    gort to tuam sounds to me like a proper road from nowhere to nowhere , i dont get the question maybe... maybe there should be a railine from gort to tuam to encourage local shopping or something, but gort to tuam to actually build a road makes as much sense to me as brian cowen in his helecopter at claregalway a few days agoxxxxxxxx

    Louisa honestly I see no logic in your argument the gort tuam dc is a critical part of the Atlantic Corridor. Its not about getting from Gort to Tuam its about getting from Derry to Limerick/Cork and ultimately Waterford and keeping clear of Dublin. Its like saying why would anyone want to go from Moate to Horsleap (N6/M6), its not the parts of the road that matter but the sum of the parts!

    Re a railline from Gort - Tuam - much debated! Check out the Western Rail Corridor thread on transport and commuting! And I'm not sure that will encourage "local shopping or something"


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  • #31
    schween
    Registered Users Posts: 444 ✭✭schween


    serfboard wrote: »
    Incorrect. The junction will be at Kiltiernan - half way between Kilcolgan and Ardrahan (see the PDF here).

    Ah I see. I stand corrected. I was actually looking for a map of it, thanks!
    It says it will connect to the N67, the route from Kilcolgan to Kinvara/Clare. But the Kiltiernan junction is several miles past Kilcolgan. I live in Kilcolgan, it's still not going to be worth our while to drive to Kiltiernan, then get on the motorway to Athenry and back to Galway.
    It will quieten Kilcolgan a lot thank god! :D
    louisa200 wrote: »
    why on earth would anyone want to go from gort to tuam?? it seems very random... to access sligo, or ballindine... I cant see a gort to tuam unless somewhere there is a huge motorway to galway limerick and dublin......
    gort to tuam sounds to me like a proper road from nowhere to nowhere , i dont get the question maybe... maybe there should be a railine from gort to tuam to encourage local shopping or something, but gort to tuam to actually build a road makes as much sense to me as brian cowen in his helecopter at claregalway a few days agoxxxxxxxx

    If this road "from nowhere to nowhere" is built a lot of lives will probably be saved from the treacherous roads that are there.


  • #32
    glineli
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,098 ✭✭✭glineli


    serfboard wrote: »
    Incorrect. The junction will be at Kiltiernan - half way between Kilcolgan and Ardrahan (see the PDF here).

    Is this the section that is already fenced off, just before the school on the left hand side going towards kilcolgan?

    I wonder would they do it in stages? Firstly extending the Gort/Crusheen as far as the first exit and then open the M6 connection?


  • #33
    Kiniska
    Closed Accounts Posts: 74 ✭✭Kiniska


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    I posted the solution, build BOTH the Claregalway relief road AND the M17.

    However Claregalway people have not campaigned properly in recent years or remained active on the relief road which is why it is not being progressed. If you want something you must battle for it and absolutely hound the likes of Fahey and Grealish every minute they are in Galway.

    Kinnegad and Enfield got their relief roads while waiting for the motorway. They fought for them unlike Claregalway people.

    It is all your own fault basically. I am pointing the finger straight at you! What have you EVER done yourself apart form tell an internet forum how pissed off you are? :D

    Spongebob,

    What do you know what I've done? I've done a lot more than you think and all I've gotten were lies and broken promises. Firstly this isn't just an issue for Claregalway people, but also everyone North of Claregalway who commute into Galway. A few years back there was a big push by the people of Claregalway and nothing was done, except the lies and broken promises. You're right, the pressure has been dropped, but after all you can only bang your head against the wall so many times and unfortunately people get disillusioned and give up. But to see something that is much less critical as the Gort-Tuam bypass being pushed a head is very upsetting.

    I agree, we should get both, but we'll probably get neither.

    I'll recommence my letter writing to raise the issue, but if they ignored us during the Celtic Tiger and when Grealish was a key part of the coalition government, what hope do we have now.

    Kinnegad and Enfield are great examples, do you know what the people did there?


  • #34
    Tech3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,010 ✭✭✭Tech3


    Ok the need for the M17/M18 is just as important IMO. The M20 should have been fastracked also but has been put aside for now.

    We need an efficient, fast and good quality north western to south western road network replacing the poor inadequate one which we still have now. While some work has been started on the Atlantic corridor many parts of it are still ridiculously bad.

    Most of the N20 is merely a regional at best, the N18 while some of it good being M18 as far as Ennis and due to be extended to Gort Summer 2010 is still a gridlocked national primary route. Too many villages and junctions make a journey along the western route (N18/N17) way too long.

    The M17/M18 PPP will wipe out these along the way:
    • Ardrahan
    • Kilcogan
    • Clarinbridge
    • Oranmore bypass roundabouts
    • Carnmore Cross
    • Claregalway
    • Tuam

    The time saving of this scheme will be 30mins/1hr peak off trips along the western corridor. Also not to mention improved road safety whereas traffic queues in Claregalway aint likely to cause too many fatalities.


  • #35
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Kiniska wrote: »
    Kinnegad and Enfield are great examples, do you know what the people did there?

    They kicked up an absolute stink until contracts were signed. In the case of Claregalway eveyody got one promise from Noel Grealish and became sheep all of a sudden.

    The campaign 3 or 4 years ago got Claregalway CLOSE but nothing short of contracts signed means anything.

    Hound every FF TD in East Galway too.


  • #36
    Kiniska
    Closed Accounts Posts: 74 ✭✭Kiniska


    tech2 wrote: »
    Ok the need for the M17/M18 is just as important IMO. The M20 should have been fastracked also but has been put aside for now.

    We need an efficient, fast and good quality north western to south western road network replacing the poor inadequate one which we still have now. While some work has been started on the Atlantic corridor many parts of it are still ridiculously bad.

    Most of the N20 is merely a regional at best, the N18 while some of it good being M18 as far as Ennis and due to be extended to Gort Summer 2010 is still a gridlocked national primary route. Too many villages and junctions make a journey along the western route (N18/N17) way too long.

    The M17/M18 PPP will wipe out these along the way:
    • Ardrahan
    • Kilcogan
    • Clarinbridge
    • Oranmore bypass roundabouts
    • Carnmore Cross
    • Claregalway
    • Tuam

    The time saving of this scheme will be 30mins/1hr peak off trips along the western corridor. Also not to mention improved road safety whereas traffic queues in Claregalway aint likely to cause too many fatalities.

    Yes, the handful of people that will travel this Gort-Tuam bypass route will be more important than the thousands that travel the N17 every day!!!! You obviously don't travel the N17 through Claregalway on a daily basis, but maybe you do travel the Gort-Tuam route a few times a year so that's a lot more important!!

    The only valid point is road deaths, yes the current N17 will not produce any road deaths during peak times, since it's hard to die in a car crash if you're only traveling 2mph! That being said, there's still probably more deaths per annum on the current N17 of people traveling to/from Galway city than there would ever be on the Gort - Tuam route.


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  • #37
    CerebralCortex
    Registered Users Posts: 3,809 ✭✭✭CerebralCortex


    Kiniska wrote: »
    Yes, the handful of people that will travel this Gort-Tuam bypass route will be more important than the thousands that travel the N17 every day!!!! You obviously don't travel the N17 through Claregalway on a daily basis, but maybe you do travel the Gort-Tuam route a few times a year so that's a lot more important!!

    I don't think you're seeing the big picture. For the economic development of the west, which has been neglected, a good interurban network is essential. It's a second world situation now on the N18/N17, try driving one day you'll see what I mean. I'm from Galway, I live in Limerick and work in Shannon and I can tell its a depressing prospect to make the trip home. For a first world country to have massive freight trucks going through a village is absolutely absurd. Now people can correct me if I'm wrong but the M17/M18 will service Tuam meaning people will have more avenues with which to approach the city. It's a win win situation.


  • #38
    Kiniska
    Closed Accounts Posts: 74 ✭✭Kiniska


    CerebralCortex wrote: »
    I don't think you're seeing the big picture. For the economic development of the west, which has been neglected, a good interurban network is essential. It's a second world situation now on the N18/N17, try driving one day you'll see what I mean. I'm from Galway, I live in Limerick and work in Shannon and I can tell its a depressing prospect to make the trip home. For a first world country to have massive freight trucks going through a village is absolutely absurd. Now people can correct me if I'm wrong but the M17/M18 will service Tuam meaning people will have more avenues with which to approach the city. It's a win win situation.

    I am seeing the picture, both upgrades are needed, but the Claregalway bypass should come first. I understand you want a better road for your weekly or monthly trip home to Galway, but you have to think about the people driving in this mess every day. The Gort-Tuam bypass might contribute to some economic development in some parts of the west, but having proper roads for people to drive to work/shops/schools is also needed for economic development.

    Even with a Gort-Tuam bypass you'll still have plenty of massive freight trucks going through the villages of Ardrahan, Kilcogan, Clarinbridge, Oranmore and Claregalway because many of these freight trucks will be coming\going from\to Galway City and the Gort-Tuam bypass won't help to much.


  • #39
    schween
    Registered Users Posts: 444 ✭✭schween


    Kiniska wrote: »
    You obviously don't travel the N17 through Claregalway on a daily basis, but maybe you do travel the Gort-Tuam route a few times a year so that's a lot more important!!

    The same could be said for the N18.
    Sometimes in Galway you'd swear the N17 is the only route that's congested or even exists.
    The new road will reduce tailbacks and congestion in all villages on the N18. Claregalway isn't the only village in Galway suffering congestion on a daily basis. Oranmore, Clarinbridge, Kilcolgan etc


  • #40
    fresca
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 488 ✭✭fresca


    tech2 wrote: »
    Ok the need for the M17/M18 is just as important IMO. The M20 should have been fastracked also but has been put aside for now.

    We need an efficient, fast and good quality north western to south western road network replacing the poor inadequate one which we still have now. While some work has been started on the Atlantic corridor many parts of it are still ridiculously bad.

    Seems like a good idea to start a new thread on an Atlantic / Western Road Corridor? taking in, Cork, Kerry, Limerick, Clare, Galway, Mayo, Sligo, Donegal, etc.


  • #41
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    fresca wrote: »
    Seems like a good idea to start a new thread

    No it is NOT :(

    A boards search for all of ATLANTIC ROAD CORRIDOR CLAREGALWAY will bring up this selection of threads going back years and a specific thread here on the relief road.

    The idea of bypassing Claregalway first and foremost is hardly new but as the locals and those further north are doing absolutely SFA to campaign for it I must say I fail to see the point of discussing it around here any more :(

    It also contains this particular post which names all the suspects including the locals themselves.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=60464847&postcount=3
    Claregalway is a disgrace. There has been talk of a bypass for perhaps as many as 40 years now, and still nothing has been done. The road will continue to carry at least 10000 cars a day even in the ( to my mind) rather unlikely event that a motorway is ever built further east .

    The Claregalway Bypass is in the FF and Green Programme for Government as a deliverable over the lifetime of the current government and is also allegedly supported by Noel Grealish .

    If this fails to be built Frank Fahey deserves a lot of the blame. Frank spent a lot of time in 2008 claiming that the motorway to the east would bypass Claregalway and he refused to discuss or lobby for this specific road. Frank is not over concerned with programmes for government .

    However the delivery of a Programme for Government is the responsibility of the Cabinet and therefore Eamonn O Cuiv will be equally responsible if this road is not open by this time in 2012 when the term of this government ends .

    It is also important that Noel Treacy and Michael Kitt are blamed in proportion to Fahey and O Cuiv . They are both sitting FF TDs for Galway East and are supporters of the same programme for government albeit not responsible for delivery to the same extent as O Cuiv and Fahey ( Chairman of the Transport Committee)

    Sadly the effective lobby that was evident in Claregalway appears to have disbanded . They would be well advised to reform and to re-energise and to relentlessly pressurise all those named suspects for the delivery of this vital road.


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  • #42
    KevR
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,110 ✭✭✭KevR


    I think a Claregalway relief road and the M17/18 should both be built. If one is getting built before the other then I think the M17/18 from Gort to Tuam should get priority. It will complete the motorway link from Galway to Shannon Airport and Limerick City. Galway-Cork connectivity will be improved also.

    The M17/18 will bypass and provide much need relief for multiple congested towns, the Claregalway Bypass will just provide relief for Claregalway.

    While I don't for one second think that the M17/18 will alleviate the problems in Claregalway, I think some people are underestimating the relief it will provide. It will remove all long distance traffic from Claregalway and remove some Tuam-Galway commuter traffic. Distance wise, Tuam-Galway will be further on the motorway than the 'old' N17 but time wise, the M17 will be faster when driving from Tuam to certain parts of East Galway City.


  • #43
    Tech3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,010 ✭✭✭Tech3


    Kiniska wrote: »
    Yes, the handful of people that will travel this Gort-Tuam bypass route will be more important than the thousands that travel the N17 every day!!!! You obviously don't travel the N17 through Claregalway on a daily basis, but maybe you do travel the Gort-Tuam route a few times a year so that's a lot more important!!

    I drive from Limerick to Sligo bi-weekly or weekly depending on my circumstances. The worst stretch of the route is from Crusheen to Tuam no doubt about it. Not to mention now the WRC trains crossing the mainline a few times a day as well. Third would infrastructure at its finest.

    The Clareglaway bypass is not going to alleviate the traffic problems in Galway city though. The urban planning was very poor allowing one off housing all over north Galway causing chaos along the main route into the city from the north. If people lived in the city then there would less need of bypasses near urban centers with the emphasis on public transport.

    The developments in Claregalway have caused havoc though and a bypass is needed but the M17/M18 shouldn't be neglected.


  • #44
    KevR
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,110 ✭✭✭KevR


    Forgot to mention in my post earlier that should the M17/18 go ahead, and eventually the Galway City Bypass; traffic would be further reduced in Claregalway (if there is no CG Bypass by then) by the building of the Galway Bypass becuase more parts of Galway City would be accessed faster by Tuam people via the M17 and GCOB than using the old N17.

    That's not to say there isn't an urgent need for a Claregalway Bypass, I'm just pointing out the effects other road projects will have on traffic in Claregalway.


  • #45
    Carawaystick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    KevR wrote: »
    While I don't for one second think that the M17/18 will alleviate the problems in Claregalway, I think some people are underestimating the relief it will provide. It will remove all long distance traffic from Claregalway and remove some Tuam-Galway commuter traffic. Distance wise, Tuam-Galway will be further on the motorway than the 'old' N17 but time wise, the M17 will be faster when driving from Tuam to certain parts of East Galway City.

    I think there should be a decent relief in Claregalway. There'll be no N18 through traffic coming into the town. So the T junction will be able to be biased more in favour of the existing N17.
    There'll be a reduction in traffic through the town southbound - N18 traffic. and an amount of traffic going from Galway to Tuam and beyond will use the M6/M17 route. If it's quicker and longer then the shorter time way will win. There's no toll to throw a spanner in the works.

    Will there be a junction with the N63 and M17?


  • #46
    serfboard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,720 ✭✭✭serfboard


    Carawaystick wrote: »
    There'll be no N18 through traffic coming into the town. So the T junction will be able to be biased more in favour of the existing N17.

    It already is. The traffic lights are correctly biased in favour of the N17. When the M18/17 is built, the traffic lights can be set to be biased even more so in favour of the N17.

    Instead of campaigning in favour of a Claregalway relief road, why not campaign in favour of better public transport into Galway - in particular into the industrial estates - and more bus lanes in Galway. There are fine bus lanes in Claregalway now, but insufficient services yet. A park & ride in Loughgeorge (at N63 junction) was another proposal - why not argue for that?

    OP - where do you commute from and to? Is there a public transport alternative (I'm guessing not)? If you're along the N17 have you considered Burke's? If not, why not?

    If there was a P&R in Loughgeorge would you use it? Again, if not, why not?


  • #47
    cremeegg
    Registered Users Posts: 286 ✭✭cremeegg


    CerebralCortex wrote: »
    I don't think you're seeing the big picture. For the economic development of the west, which has been neglected, a good interurban network is essential. It's a second world situation now on the N18/N17, try driving one day you'll see what I mean. I'm from Galway, I live in Limerick and work in Shannon and I can tell its a depressing prospect to make the trip home. For a first world country to have massive freight trucks going through a village is absolutely absurd. Now people can correct me if I'm wrong but the M17/M18 will service Tuam meaning people will have more avenues with which to approach the city. It's a win win situation.

    This man is spot on..


  • #48
    mysterious
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,133 ✭✭✭mysterious


    cremeegg wrote: »
    This man is spot on..


    It's the same with Adare, And Adare is almost identical to Claregalway been a small village. Adare is experiencing a population explosion as is Clareegalway and there is just no infrastructure in the town while the main street is also congested.


    17,000 vehicles pass use the N21 and will further exasperate, as NWC is a booming dormitory town of Limerick so with commuter trafffic and summer volumes, tailbacks can reach 2/3 miles on either side.

    It has to be sorted out now. There are the two worst towns in the country at the moment and have higher volumes of traffic than any inter urban route, which is also ironic.


  • #49
    Tech3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,010 ✭✭✭Tech3


    mysterious wrote: »
    It has to be sorted out now. There are the two worst towns in the country at the moment and have higher volumes of traffic than any inter urban route, which is also ironic.

    I agree. The N21 from Newcastle West to the junction with the M20 has a lot of AADT on it. It's a pity there's no traffic counter from NCW to Adare. I've driven this road a lot recently and it needs to be upgraded to 2+2 at the very least. South of NCW drops to about 10k so WS2 would be good for there but it's gonna be 2+2 as well.

    Did the N4 outside Sligo warrant standard dual? Towns like Tralee are similar in size and need some short bit of dual near them also.


  • #50
    veryangryman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,600 ✭✭✭veryangryman


    tech2 wrote: »
    I agree. The N21 from Newcastle West to the junction with the M20 has a lot of AADT on it. It's a pity there's no traffic counter from NCW to Adare. I've driven this road a lot recently and it needs to be upgraded to 2+2 at the very least. South of NCW drops to about 10k so WS2 would be good for there but it's gonna be 2+2 as well.

    Did the N4 outside Sligo warrant standard dual? Towns like Tralee are similar in size and need some short bit of dual near them also.

    I think Sligo has a small case for a dual. But the real crime is the town not actually getting bypassed. The throughpass bullcrap is a joke, and if i lived there, i would not be happy


  • #51
    L1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,537 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    veryangryman wrote: »
    I think Sligo has a small case for a dual. But the real crime is the town not actually getting bypassed. The throughpass bullcrap is a joke, and if i lived there, i would not be happy

    Throughpass was a sticking plaster, and Sligo Borough Council had been collecting the houses to knock for it since the 1970s or so anyway. There are plans for a proper standard DC bypass, but its vanished off the NRA projects list along with a whole load of 2015+ projects. They're also planning standard DC for a few KM north of Sligo and 2+2 to the county boundary (this is on the NRA site) along with converting the Ballyshannon/Bundoran BP to 2+2 and patching the tiny gap (aka Leitrim :p) in between these two.


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