M17 Gort-Tuam motorway or Claregalway bypass?

Kiniska

I wonder is the Gort to Tuam road really what Galway needs, am I missing something? Commuting in and out of Galway is a nightmare and the recent flooding has exasperated this point. I understand that this proposed road will take away some of the pressure, so people traveling North/South on the West coast will be able to bypass Galway city and for those people this will be a great help, but I would assume this is a minority compared to the masses that commute in and out of Galway every day. I can see the proposed bypass around Galway helping those from places like Mayo Sligo and Donegal traveling to Shannon, although with RyanAir pulling out and Aer Lingus reducing their flights from Shannon, Shannon is almost finished. I also suppose that this proposed road would also help people from places like Limerick traveling to Enniskillen for Christmas shopping, but most of these people currently time their drives to avoid Galway rush hour, but I doubt the government wants to make Shopping in the North more accessible. My question is, aren't these people a very small percentage compared to all that commute in and out of Galway every day? Meanwhile areas like Claregalway have been crying for a bypass around the town for years, but our government in their inept wisdom have determined that a Gort-Tuam bypass is more important. I'm sorry, maybe I'm biased, but I just don't see it. Yes, a motorway from Gort-Tuam would be nice and it would divert some large lorries and maybe 1% of the total rush hour traffic away from Galway City, but a bypass around Claregalway would be a lot more efficient and help a lot more motorists.

Now I also understand that they are planning on building the Gort-Tuam bypass using a concessionaire, but the NRA still has to pay for the land, the land costs for this could easily cost more than the entire, plus the Gort-Tuam bypass will be a toll road, another issue I won't get into at this time. Plus the traffic is bad enough that even if the Claregalway bypass was tolled it would still work, provided the toll was reasonable.

Certainly I'd like to see both a Gort-Tuam bypass as well as a Claregalway bypass and I think Galway deserves both, compared to all of the great new roads built in other parts of the country, but we have to be realistic, in the current economic climate we'll be very lucky to get one of these bypasses and my vote is the Claregalway bypass, not the Gort-Tuam bypass. Will this Gort-Tuam bypass be another Road to Nowhere? I don't want to disrespect the needs of those in the North-West, but what's more important saving someone an hour on a journey they make once a year or saving 1,000 times that population 30 minutes of time twice a day everyday of the year? I'd be interested to hear the constructive opinions of others.

padraig71

While the Claregalway bypass is a pressing issue, I think we need a more long-term, joined-up approach to planning whereby fewer people would be commuting into and out of the city. Ideally people should live near their place of employment. Obviously, the massive over-inflation of property prices has been a factor here, as few workers have been able to buy in town. Meanwhile, the concentration of investment in Galway city has been to the detriment of other towns in the county. Public transport is also a key factor.

The current floods seem to have caught the country on the hop. We know that climate change is happening and further 'freak' weather conditions are to be expected, and that planning and development based on short-term profit for the few have failed the many. We also know that oil is running out, and so we should be planning with foresight for the post-oil future.

Not much consolation when you are stuck in traffic, probably, but there's a much bigger picture that we ignore at our peril.

biko

Galway City->Infrastructure

Tech3

Is the Claregalway bypass even CPO'd yet?

1% of the total rush hour traffic is an understatement. The road needs to be built for greater access of North west to South west traffic.

d.a.r.r.a.g.h

The Idea of having a GORT-TUAM motorway is that both roads will intersect with the N6 near Athenry, at which both roads have access to galway. It also means that the western corridor is easily accessible without even having to pass Galway. This project is in no way a road to nowhere.

Kiniska

padraig71 wrote: »

While the Claregalway bypass is a pressing issue, I think we need a more long-term, joined-up approach to planning whereby fewer people would be commuting into and out of the city. Ideally people should live near their place of employment. Obviously, the massive over-inflation of property prices has been a factor here, as few workers have been able to buy in town. Meanwhile, the concentration of investment in Galway city has been to the detriment of other towns in the county. Public transport is also a key factor.

Only so many people can live in Galway City, unless they start building urban high rises, probably not what most want in Galway.

The traffic situation has gotten so bad and Claregalway is only 7 miles from Galway City, not exactly miles away. In most cities in the world people would die to be only 7 miles from work. But here that 7 miles can typically be over an hour commuting.

Also it's more than just jobs, what about getting to doctors, hospitals and students getting to universities, secondary schools, etc.?

But I do agree about needing better mass transportation, Galway will get proper mass transport in about 100 years after Dublin has a 100 DARTs, LUASes, Undergrounds and Subways. The Only Subway we'll ever see is the sandwich shops, which we have too many of.

Kiniska

d.a.r.r.a.g.h wrote: »

The Idea of having a GORT-TUAM motorway is that both roads will intersect with the N6 near Athenry, at which both roads have access to galway. It also means that the western corridor is easily accessible without even having to pass Galway. This project is in no way a road to nowhere.

I'm not saying we don't need a western corridor, but the number of people using this corridor would be dwarfed in proportion to the amount of people that commute in and out of Galway on a daily basis. And if Shannon is shut down, that disproportion will get even worse. Being that we need better infrastructure for people that need to commute every day should be a much higher priority than a desire to have a better western corridor for more occasional use.

Kiniska

tech2 wrote: »

Is the Claregalway bypass even CPO'd yet?

No, despite many promises in the past.

tech2 wrote: »

1% of the total rush hour traffic is an understatement. The road needs to be built for greater access of North west to South west traffic.

Well then of the cars sitting in traffic in Claregalway during rush hour, what do you estimate is the percentage of cars that are driving from Gort and points south to Tuam and points north? I can't see it being much more than 1%!

Head The Wall

Gort is being bypassed at the moment, the Crusheen to Gort road will be joining the N18 at the Galway side of Gort, They aren't building all these Motorways to make getting to the North easier for shopping, They are linking up the main cities in the country.

The problem with Claregalway is the traffic lights, why the council didn't just put in a pedestrian bridge over the road is beyond me instead of the millions that they have already wasted there

dec25532

According to the most recent statement from the National Roads Authority, the Gort to Tuam contract will be awarded next October and construction will commence in early 2011 under a public private partnership. When and if it is completed, it is expected that all traffic from North Galway will use this road and there will be no need for a Claregalway bypass (hence the stalling). The NRA assumes that traffic from Tuam and beyond will be willing to join up with the traffic from the M6 at the superjunction at Rathmorrissey and then create a monumental backlog in Doughiska. I think not. The old N17 will continue to be used which still justifies a Claregalway bypass.

galwayrush

The M17 was planned to run close to Loughgeorge by Galway CC to make maximum use of it,there were 4 possible routes on display, but the NRA went against this, because they felt that while admitting the vast majority of traffic was local to Galway City, it wouldn't be fair on the lesser number of drivers who would not be going to or ftom Galway to bring them closer to the City. Obviously this is different for other Cities / Towns, as it will go much closer to Sligo, Limerick. It will be great to have it, but it would be more practical if it doubled as a useful by-pass of Claregalway as well.

Sponge Bob

Kiniska wrote: »

I wonder is the Gort to Tuam road really what Galway needs, am I missing something?

We need both .

Chris_533976

The Gort to Tuam motorway will not solve the Claregalway problem. The Inner Relief Road as its called, will. And provide development land

FWIW the part of the Rathmorrisey junction that connects the M18 north to M17 north (that flyover) will be the quietest motorway in the country.

The route selection of the M18 and M17 around Galway is ridiculous, but better to build it now than wait another 5 or 6 years for it to get redesigned. Although we may be waiting that long anyway if the PPP fails.

schween

The first junction of the M18 will be at Labane I believe, which will immediately make almost all people between Ardrahan and Galway use the old N18.

Is the new M18/M17 also about bringing new development to the west? I presume lots of businesses, residential developments will be encouraged in the region by it, no?
Also is the new town of Ardaun (how's that looking actually?) being built along the new M6?

CerebralCortex

Kiniska wrote: »

Only so any people can live in Galway City, unless they start building urban high rises, probably not what most want in Galway....

People are really going to have to come to terms with the idea that living in a city means exactly that.

Kiniska

Head The Wall wrote: »

Gort is being bypassed at the moment, the Crusheen to Gort road will be joining the N18 at the Galway side of Gort, They aren't building all these Motorways to make getting to the North easier for shopping, They are linking up the main cities in the country.

The problem with Claregalway is the traffic lights, why the council didn't just put in a pedestrian bridge over the road is beyond me instead of the millions that they have already wasted there

I was being sarcastic saying that the Motorways were being built to make getting to the North easier for shopping, but realistically, that will be one of it's main uses if the western corridor is every built, especially with the decline of Shannon.

The traffic light in Claregalway isn't the only problem and a pedestrian bridge would just be a drop in the bucket, the volue of traffic needs a more significant solution.

Kiniska

Chris_533976 wrote: »

The Gort to Tuam motorway will not solve the Claregalway problem. The Inner Relief Road as its called, will. And provide development land

FWIW the part of the Rathmorrisey junction that connects the M18 north to M17 north (that flyover) will be the quietest motorway in the country.

The route selection of the M18 and M17 around Galway is ridiculous, but better to build it now than wait another 5 or 6 years for it to get redesigned. Although we may be waiting that long anyway if the PPP fails.

My point exactly. The Gort to Tuam motorway will not solve the Claregalway problem or help resolve any of the Galway commuting issues and it will be the quietest motorway in the country. I also agree the route selection is ridiculous and it's obvious the powers that have selected this route are so out of touch and they either don't know what is needed in Galway or they just don't care.

Yes, both a Western corridor and a Claregalway bypass are needed but the Claregalway bypass should have a much higher priority, but our Dublin based government don't understand this. Yes, if a better route selection was chosen, we could kill two birds with one stone, but unfortunately that isn't the case.

Sad to say, we probably won't get either. I can't see any investor paying for the construction costs with the hopes of making money on a toll for a road less traveled.

d.a.r.r.a.g.h

schween wrote: »

The first junction of the M18 will be at Labane I believe, which will immediately make almost all people between Ardrahan and Galway use the old N18.

Is the new M18/M17 also about bringing new development to the west? I presume lots of businesses, residential developments will be encouraged in the region by it, no?
Also is the new town of Ardaun (how's that looking actually?) being built along the new M6?

It looks like the M6 will be right down the middle of it

Kiniska

schween wrote: »

The first junction of the M18 will be at Labane I believe, which will immediately make almost all people between Ardrahan and Galway use the old N18.

Is the new M18/M17 also about bringing new development to the west? I presume lots of businesses, residential developments will be encouraged in the region by it, no?
Also is the new town of Ardaun (how's that looking actually?) being built along the new M6?

I suspect due to the current recession, the building of Ardaun will be delayed, who's going to buy new houses in the current economic climate, unless they are deeply discounted and if that happened I could see the public outcry since it would destroy house prices that are already down.

Sponge Bob

A quarter of all the houses in Galway are empty , there will be no building for years if not decades .

WallyGUFC

Head The Wall wrote: »

The problem with Claregalway is the traffic lights, why the council didn't just put in a pedestrian bridge over the road is beyond me instead of the millions that they have already wasted there

There was talk of a bridge or tunnel under the road but this was met with fierce opposition from certain locals who felt a tunnel would drastically increase vandalism, muggings etc etc...:rolleyes:

louisa200

why on earth would anyone want to go from gort to tuam?? it seems very random... to access sligo, or ballindine... I cant see a gort to tuam unless somewhere there is a huge motorway to galway limerick and dublin......
gort to tuam sounds to me like a proper road from nowhere to nowhere , i dont get the question maybe... maybe there should be a railine from gort to tuam to encourage local shopping or something, but gort to tuam to actually build a road makes as much sense to me as brian cowen in his helecopter at claregalway a few days agoxxxxxxxx

Tech3

louisa200 wrote: »

why on earth would anyone want to go from gort to tuam?? it seems very random... to access sligo, or ballindine... I cant see a gort to tuam unless somewhere there is a huge motorway to galway limerick and dublin......
gort to tuam sounds to me like a proper road from nowhere to nowhere , i dont get the question maybe... maybe there should be a railine from gort to tuam to encourage local shopping or something, but gort to tuam to actually build a road makes as much sense to me as brian cowen in his helecopter at claregalway a few days agoxxxxxxxx

Your comment makes absoluetly no sense whatsoever. It's not nowhere to nowhere. It extendeds motorway/dual carriagway standard road from Limerick to Galway and then on to Tuam which will give easier access to the North west and west to the midwest and south. There is two cities on this road to nowhere you speak of, Galway and Limerick. It affects even further south Cork city access to Galway and north of it.

I agree that both a Claregalway bypass needs to be constructed as well but I dont see the reason to link the two schemes to the discussion? Two seperate schemes for two different types of traffic.

Kiniska

tech2 wrote: »

I agree that both a Claregalway bypass needs to be constructed as well but I dont see the reason to link the two schemes to the discussion? Two seperate schemes for two different types of traffic.

The reason for linking the two in this post is because the government is making efforts to proceed with the Gort - Tuam bypass, but no effort is being made about the Claregalway bypass, something that should have a much higher priority.

Sponge Bob

The reason why is because the locals in Claregalway elected Noel Grealish to represent them and because there is no local campaign any more ( there was a few years back).

I hereby point the finger straight at Claregalway itself.

Kiniska

Sponge Bob wrote: »

The reason why is because the locals in Claregalway elected Noel Grealish to represent them and because there is no local campaign any more ( there was a few years back).

I hereby point the finger straight at Claregalway itself.

SpongeBob,

Now you're starting to sound like our Government, pointing fingers and blaming someone else with no solution. I'm tired of this!!

And don't get me started on Noel Grealish, I had to laugh during the last election his only real claim to fame was getting the traffic light at Carnmore Cross. It's pretty sad when you're a TD for a years and your only claim to fame is getting the traffic light and that was when he was in the power seat of the FF-PD coalition government, so what can we expect from him now that he is in lame duck mode?

But seriously, something should be done about Claregalway, plenty of promises were made by Grealish and others, but it just keeps getting worse.

But the government thinks the Gort - Tuam bypass is more important, even though it won't get much use and there will be very little benefit from it, compared to other areas where our money would be better spent. But what do we know, it's only our tax money and we only live here!!

Sponge Bob

Kiniska wrote: »

SpongeBob,
Now you're starting to sound like our Government, pointing fingers and blaming someone else with no solution. I'm tired of this!!

I posted the solution, build BOTH the Claregalway relief road AND the M17.

However Claregalway people have not campaigned properly in recent years or remained active on the relief road which is why it is not being progressed. If you want something you must battle for it and absolutely hound the likes of Fahey and Grealish every minute they are in Galway.

Kinnegad and Enfield got their relief roads while waiting for the motorway. They fought for them unlike Claregalway people.

It is all your own fault basically. I am pointing the finger straight at you! What have you EVER done yourself apart form tell an internet forum how pissed off you are?

Claregalway is on the edge of Galway west - the pain is spread across the two constituencies.

serfboard

schween wrote: »

The first junction of the M18 will be at Labane I believe

Incorrect. The junction will be at Kiltiernan - half way between Kilcolgan and Ardrahan (see the PDF here).

westtip

louisa200 wrote: »

why on earth would anyone want to go from gort to tuam?? it seems very random... to access sligo, or ballindine... I cant see a gort to tuam unless somewhere there is a huge motorway to galway limerick and dublin......
gort to tuam sounds to me like a proper road from nowhere to nowhere , i dont get the question maybe... maybe there should be a railine from gort to tuam to encourage local shopping or something, but gort to tuam to actually build a road makes as much sense to me as brian cowen in his helecopter at claregalway a few days agoxxxxxxxx

Louisa honestly I see no logic in your argument the gort tuam dc is a critical part of the Atlantic Corridor. Its not about getting from Gort to Tuam its about getting from Derry to Limerick/Cork and ultimately Waterford and keeping clear of Dublin. Its like saying why would anyone want to go from Moate to Horsleap (N6/M6), its not the parts of the road that matter but the sum of the parts!

Re a railline from Gort - Tuam - much debated! Check out the Western Rail Corridor thread on transport and commuting! And I'm not sure that will encourage "local shopping or something"

schween

serfboard wrote: »

Incorrect. The junction will be at Kiltiernan - half way between Kilcolgan and Ardrahan (see the PDF here).

Ah I see. I stand corrected. I was actually looking for a map of it, thanks!
It says it will connect to the N67, the route from Kilcolgan to Kinvara/Clare. But the Kiltiernan junction is several miles past Kilcolgan. I live in Kilcolgan, it's still not going to be worth our while to drive to Kiltiernan, then get on the motorway to Athenry and back to Galway.
It will quieten Kilcolgan a lot thank god!

louisa200 wrote: »

why on earth would anyone want to go from gort to tuam?? it seems very random... to access sligo, or ballindine... I cant see a gort to tuam unless somewhere there is a huge motorway to galway limerick and dublin......
gort to tuam sounds to me like a proper road from nowhere to nowhere , i dont get the question maybe... maybe there should be a railine from gort to tuam to encourage local shopping or something, but gort to tuam to actually build a road makes as much sense to me as brian cowen in his helecopter at claregalway a few days agoxxxxxxxx

If this road "from nowhere to nowhere" is built a lot of lives will probably be saved from the treacherous roads that are there.