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M17 Gort-Tuam motorway or Claregalway bypass?

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,098 ✭✭✭ glineli


    serfboard wrote: »
    Incorrect. The junction will be at Kiltiernan - half way between Kilcolgan and Ardrahan (see the PDF here).

    Is this the section that is already fenced off, just before the school on the left hand side going towards kilcolgan?

    I wonder would they do it in stages? Firstly extending the Gort/Crusheen as far as the first exit and then open the M6 connection?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 74 ✭✭✭ Kiniska


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    I posted the solution, build BOTH the Claregalway relief road AND the M17.

    However Claregalway people have not campaigned properly in recent years or remained active on the relief road which is why it is not being progressed. If you want something you must battle for it and absolutely hound the likes of Fahey and Grealish every minute they are in Galway.

    Kinnegad and Enfield got their relief roads while waiting for the motorway. They fought for them unlike Claregalway people.

    It is all your own fault basically. I am pointing the finger straight at you! What have you EVER done yourself apart form tell an internet forum how pissed off you are? :D

    Spongebob,

    What do you know what I've done? I've done a lot more than you think and all I've gotten were lies and broken promises. Firstly this isn't just an issue for Claregalway people, but also everyone North of Claregalway who commute into Galway. A few years back there was a big push by the people of Claregalway and nothing was done, except the lies and broken promises. You're right, the pressure has been dropped, but after all you can only bang your head against the wall so many times and unfortunately people get disillusioned and give up. But to see something that is much less critical as the Gort-Tuam bypass being pushed a head is very upsetting.

    I agree, we should get both, but we'll probably get neither.

    I'll recommence my letter writing to raise the issue, but if they ignored us during the Celtic Tiger and when Grealish was a key part of the coalition government, what hope do we have now.

    Kinnegad and Enfield are great examples, do you know what the people did there?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,010 Tech3


    Ok the need for the M17/M18 is just as important IMO. The M20 should have been fastracked also but has been put aside for now.

    We need an efficient, fast and good quality north western to south western road network replacing the poor inadequate one which we still have now. While some work has been started on the Atlantic corridor many parts of it are still ridiculously bad.

    Most of the N20 is merely a regional at best, the N18 while some of it good being M18 as far as Ennis and due to be extended to Gort Summer 2010 is still a gridlocked national primary route. Too many villages and junctions make a journey along the western route (N18/N17) way too long.

    The M17/M18 PPP will wipe out these along the way:
    • Ardrahan
    • Kilcogan
    • Clarinbridge
    • Oranmore bypass roundabouts
    • Carnmore Cross
    • Claregalway
    • Tuam

    The time saving of this scheme will be 30mins/1hr peak off trips along the western corridor. Also not to mention improved road safety whereas traffic queues in Claregalway aint likely to cause too many fatalities.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 Sponge Bob


    Kiniska wrote: »
    Kinnegad and Enfield are great examples, do you know what the people did there?

    They kicked up an absolute stink until contracts were signed. In the case of Claregalway eveyody got one promise from Noel Grealish and became sheep all of a sudden.

    The campaign 3 or 4 years ago got Claregalway CLOSE but nothing short of contracts signed means anything.

    Hound every FF TD in East Galway too.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 74 ✭✭✭ Kiniska


    tech2 wrote: »
    Ok the need for the M17/M18 is just as important IMO. The M20 should have been fastracked also but has been put aside for now.

    We need an efficient, fast and good quality north western to south western road network replacing the poor inadequate one which we still have now. While some work has been started on the Atlantic corridor many parts of it are still ridiculously bad.

    Most of the N20 is merely a regional at best, the N18 while some of it good being M18 as far as Ennis and due to be extended to Gort Summer 2010 is still a gridlocked national primary route. Too many villages and junctions make a journey along the western route (N18/N17) way too long.

    The M17/M18 PPP will wipe out these along the way:
    • Ardrahan
    • Kilcogan
    • Clarinbridge
    • Oranmore bypass roundabouts
    • Carnmore Cross
    • Claregalway
    • Tuam

    The time saving of this scheme will be 30mins/1hr peak off trips along the western corridor. Also not to mention improved road safety whereas traffic queues in Claregalway aint likely to cause too many fatalities.

    Yes, the handful of people that will travel this Gort-Tuam bypass route will be more important than the thousands that travel the N17 every day!!!! You obviously don't travel the N17 through Claregalway on a daily basis, but maybe you do travel the Gort-Tuam route a few times a year so that's a lot more important!!

    The only valid point is road deaths, yes the current N17 will not produce any road deaths during peak times, since it's hard to die in a car crash if you're only traveling 2mph! That being said, there's still probably more deaths per annum on the current N17 of people traveling to/from Galway city than there would ever be on the Gort - Tuam route.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,807 ✭✭✭ CerebralCortex


    Kiniska wrote: »
    Yes, the handful of people that will travel this Gort-Tuam bypass route will be more important than the thousands that travel the N17 every day!!!! You obviously don't travel the N17 through Claregalway on a daily basis, but maybe you do travel the Gort-Tuam route a few times a year so that's a lot more important!!

    I don't think you're seeing the big picture. For the economic development of the west, which has been neglected, a good interurban network is essential. It's a second world situation now on the N18/N17, try driving one day you'll see what I mean. I'm from Galway, I live in Limerick and work in Shannon and I can tell its a depressing prospect to make the trip home. For a first world country to have massive freight trucks going through a village is absolutely absurd. Now people can correct me if I'm wrong but the M17/M18 will service Tuam meaning people will have more avenues with which to approach the city. It's a win win situation.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 74 ✭✭✭ Kiniska


    I don't think you're seeing the big picture. For the economic development of the west, which has been neglected, a good interurban network is essential. It's a second world situation now on the N18/N17, try driving one day you'll see what I mean. I'm from Galway, I live in Limerick and work in Shannon and I can tell its a depressing prospect to make the trip home. For a first world country to have massive freight trucks going through a village is absolutely absurd. Now people can correct me if I'm wrong but the M17/M18 will service Tuam meaning people will have more avenues with which to approach the city. It's a win win situation.

    I am seeing the picture, both upgrades are needed, but the Claregalway bypass should come first. I understand you want a better road for your weekly or monthly trip home to Galway, but you have to think about the people driving in this mess every day. The Gort-Tuam bypass might contribute to some economic development in some parts of the west, but having proper roads for people to drive to work/shops/schools is also needed for economic development.

    Even with a Gort-Tuam bypass you'll still have plenty of massive freight trucks going through the villages of Ardrahan, Kilcogan, Clarinbridge, Oranmore and Claregalway because many of these freight trucks will be coming\going from\to Galway City and the Gort-Tuam bypass won't help to much.


  • Registered Users Posts: 444 ✭✭ schween


    Kiniska wrote: »
    You obviously don't travel the N17 through Claregalway on a daily basis, but maybe you do travel the Gort-Tuam route a few times a year so that's a lot more important!!

    The same could be said for the N18.
    Sometimes in Galway you'd swear the N17 is the only route that's congested or even exists.
    The new road will reduce tailbacks and congestion in all villages on the N18. Claregalway isn't the only village in Galway suffering congestion on a daily basis. Oranmore, Clarinbridge, Kilcolgan etc


  • Registered Users Posts: 488 ✭✭ fresca


    tech2 wrote: »
    Ok the need for the M17/M18 is just as important IMO. The M20 should have been fastracked also but has been put aside for now.

    We need an efficient, fast and good quality north western to south western road network replacing the poor inadequate one which we still have now. While some work has been started on the Atlantic corridor many parts of it are still ridiculously bad.

    Seems like a good idea to start a new thread on an Atlantic / Western Road Corridor? taking in, Cork, Kerry, Limerick, Clare, Galway, Mayo, Sligo, Donegal, etc.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 Sponge Bob


    fresca wrote: »
    Seems like a good idea to start a new thread

    No it is NOT :(

    A boards search for all of ATLANTIC ROAD CORRIDOR CLAREGALWAY will bring up this selection of threads going back years and a specific thread here on the relief road.

    The idea of bypassing Claregalway first and foremost is hardly new but as the locals and those further north are doing absolutely SFA to campaign for it I must say I fail to see the point of discussing it around here any more :(

    It also contains this particular post which names all the suspects including the locals themselves.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=60464847&postcount=3
    Claregalway is a disgrace. There has been talk of a bypass for perhaps as many as 40 years now, and still nothing has been done. The road will continue to carry at least 10000 cars a day even in the ( to my mind) rather unlikely event that a motorway is ever built further east .

    The Claregalway Bypass is in the FF and Green Programme for Government as a deliverable over the lifetime of the current government and is also allegedly supported by Noel Grealish .

    If this fails to be built Frank Fahey deserves a lot of the blame. Frank spent a lot of time in 2008 claiming that the motorway to the east would bypass Claregalway and he refused to discuss or lobby for this specific road. Frank is not over concerned with programmes for government .

    However the delivery of a Programme for Government is the responsibility of the Cabinet and therefore Eamonn O Cuiv will be equally responsible if this road is not open by this time in 2012 when the term of this government ends .

    It is also important that Noel Treacy and Michael Kitt are blamed in proportion to Fahey and O Cuiv . They are both sitting FF TDs for Galway East and are supporters of the same programme for government albeit not responsible for delivery to the same extent as O Cuiv and Fahey ( Chairman of the Transport Committee)

    Sadly the effective lobby that was evident in Claregalway appears to have disbanded . They would be well advised to reform and to re-energise and to relentlessly pressurise all those named suspects for the delivery of this vital road.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,110 KevR


    I think a Claregalway relief road and the M17/18 should both be built. If one is getting built before the other then I think the M17/18 from Gort to Tuam should get priority. It will complete the motorway link from Galway to Shannon Airport and Limerick City. Galway-Cork connectivity will be improved also.

    The M17/18 will bypass and provide much need relief for multiple congested towns, the Claregalway Bypass will just provide relief for Claregalway.

    While I don't for one second think that the M17/18 will alleviate the problems in Claregalway, I think some people are underestimating the relief it will provide. It will remove all long distance traffic from Claregalway and remove some Tuam-Galway commuter traffic. Distance wise, Tuam-Galway will be further on the motorway than the 'old' N17 but time wise, the M17 will be faster when driving from Tuam to certain parts of East Galway City.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,010 Tech3


    Kiniska wrote: »
    Yes, the handful of people that will travel this Gort-Tuam bypass route will be more important than the thousands that travel the N17 every day!!!! You obviously don't travel the N17 through Claregalway on a daily basis, but maybe you do travel the Gort-Tuam route a few times a year so that's a lot more important!!

    I drive from Limerick to Sligo bi-weekly or weekly depending on my circumstances. The worst stretch of the route is from Crusheen to Tuam no doubt about it. Not to mention now the WRC trains crossing the mainline a few times a day as well. Third would infrastructure at its finest.

    The Clareglaway bypass is not going to alleviate the traffic problems in Galway city though. The urban planning was very poor allowing one off housing all over north Galway causing chaos along the main route into the city from the north. If people lived in the city then there would less need of bypasses near urban centers with the emphasis on public transport.

    The developments in Claregalway have caused havoc though and a bypass is needed but the M17/M18 shouldn't be neglected.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,110 KevR


    Forgot to mention in my post earlier that should the M17/18 go ahead, and eventually the Galway City Bypass; traffic would be further reduced in Claregalway (if there is no CG Bypass by then) by the building of the Galway Bypass becuase more parts of Galway City would be accessed faster by Tuam people via the M17 and GCOB than using the old N17.

    That's not to say there isn't an urgent need for a Claregalway Bypass, I'm just pointing out the effects other road projects will have on traffic in Claregalway.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,781 ✭✭✭ Carawaystick


    KevR wrote: »
    While I don't for one second think that the M17/18 will alleviate the problems in Claregalway, I think some people are underestimating the relief it will provide. It will remove all long distance traffic from Claregalway and remove some Tuam-Galway commuter traffic. Distance wise, Tuam-Galway will be further on the motorway than the 'old' N17 but time wise, the M17 will be faster when driving from Tuam to certain parts of East Galway City.

    I think there should be a decent relief in Claregalway. There'll be no N18 through traffic coming into the town. So the T junction will be able to be biased more in favour of the existing N17.
    There'll be a reduction in traffic through the town southbound - N18 traffic. and an amount of traffic going from Galway to Tuam and beyond will use the M6/M17 route. If it's quicker and longer then the shorter time way will win. There's no toll to throw a spanner in the works.

    Will there be a junction with the N63 and M17?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,277 ✭✭✭ serfboard


    There'll be no N18 through traffic coming into the town. So the T junction will be able to be biased more in favour of the existing N17.

    It already is. The traffic lights are correctly biased in favour of the N17. When the M18/17 is built, the traffic lights can be set to be biased even more so in favour of the N17.

    Instead of campaigning in favour of a Claregalway relief road, why not campaign in favour of better public transport into Galway - in particular into the industrial estates - and more bus lanes in Galway. There are fine bus lanes in Claregalway now, but insufficient services yet. A park & ride in Loughgeorge (at N63 junction) was another proposal - why not argue for that?

    OP - where do you commute from and to? Is there a public transport alternative (I'm guessing not)? If you're along the N17 have you considered Burke's? If not, why not?

    If there was a P&R in Loughgeorge would you use it? Again, if not, why not?


  • Registered Users Posts: 286 ✭✭ cremeegg


    I don't think you're seeing the big picture. For the economic development of the west, which has been neglected, a good interurban network is essential. It's a second world situation now on the N18/N17, try driving one day you'll see what I mean. I'm from Galway, I live in Limerick and work in Shannon and I can tell its a depressing prospect to make the trip home. For a first world country to have massive freight trucks going through a village is absolutely absurd. Now people can correct me if I'm wrong but the M17/M18 will service Tuam meaning people will have more avenues with which to approach the city. It's a win win situation.

    This man is spot on..


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,133 mysterious


    cremeegg wrote: »
    This man is spot on..


    It's the same with Adare, And Adare is almost identical to Claregalway been a small village. Adare is experiencing a population explosion as is Clareegalway and there is just no infrastructure in the town while the main street is also congested.


    17,000 vehicles pass use the N21 and will further exasperate, as NWC is a booming dormitory town of Limerick so with commuter trafffic and summer volumes, tailbacks can reach 2/3 miles on either side.

    It has to be sorted out now. There are the two worst towns in the country at the moment and have higher volumes of traffic than any inter urban route, which is also ironic.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,010 Tech3


    mysterious wrote: »
    It has to be sorted out now. There are the two worst towns in the country at the moment and have higher volumes of traffic than any inter urban route, which is also ironic.

    I agree. The N21 from Newcastle West to the junction with the M20 has a lot of AADT on it. It's a pity there's no traffic counter from NCW to Adare. I've driven this road a lot recently and it needs to be upgraded to 2+2 at the very least. South of NCW drops to about 10k so WS2 would be good for there but it's gonna be 2+2 as well.

    Did the N4 outside Sligo warrant standard dual? Towns like Tralee are similar in size and need some short bit of dual near them also.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,033 ✭✭✭ veryangryman


    tech2 wrote: »
    I agree. The N21 from Newcastle West to the junction with the M20 has a lot of AADT on it. It's a pity there's no traffic counter from NCW to Adare. I've driven this road a lot recently and it needs to be upgraded to 2+2 at the very least. South of NCW drops to about 10k so WS2 would be good for there but it's gonna be 2+2 as well.

    Did the N4 outside Sligo warrant standard dual? Towns like Tralee are similar in size and need some short bit of dual near them also.

    I think Sligo has a small case for a dual. But the real crime is the town not actually getting bypassed. The throughpass bullcrap is a joke, and if i lived there, i would not be happy


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 59,871 Mod ✭✭✭✭ L1011


    I think Sligo has a small case for a dual. But the real crime is the town not actually getting bypassed. The throughpass bullcrap is a joke, and if i lived there, i would not be happy

    Throughpass was a sticking plaster, and Sligo Borough Council had been collecting the houses to knock for it since the 1970s or so anyway. There are plans for a proper standard DC bypass, but its vanished off the NRA projects list along with a whole load of 2015+ projects. They're also planning standard DC for a few KM north of Sligo and 2+2 to the county boundary (this is on the NRA site) along with converting the Ballyshannon/Bundoran BP to 2+2 and patching the tiny gap (aka Leitrim :p) in between these two.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,010 Tech3


    MYOB wrote: »
    converting the Ballyshannon/Bundoran BP to 2+2 and patching the tiny gap (aka Leitrim :p) in between these two.

    I would like to know when the NRA are going to start upgrading routes from WS2 to 2+2.

    I reckon they should release a target for some of the routes anyway if they are going ahead with it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,133 mysterious


    tech2 wrote: »
    I agree. The N21 from Newcastle West to the junction with the M20 has a lot of AADT on it. It's a pity there's no traffic counter from NCW to Adare. I've driven this road a lot recently and it needs to be upgraded to 2+2 at the very least. South of NCW drops to about 10k so WS2 would be good for there but it's gonna be 2+2 as well.

    Did the N4 outside Sligo warrant standard dual? Towns like Tralee are similar in size and need some short bit of dual near them also.


    The Adare bypass should be starting immediately in 2010 along with the Northern section of M20, Newlands cross, Claregalway bypass,

    Then rest of the routes can get in line.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 59,871 Mod ✭✭✭✭ L1011


    tech2 wrote: »
    I would like to know when the NRA are going to start upgrading routes from WS2 to 2+2.

    I reckon they should release a target for some of the routes anyway if they are going ahead with it.

    I'd expect them to be done when adjoining schemes are being built, mostly. There isn't actually that much WS2 suitable to be upgraded, only stuff built to new alignments generally.


  • Registered Users Posts: 134 ✭✭ urranger


    What is the latest with the Gort / Crusheen By Pass?
    When is it due to open?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,010 Tech3


    urranger wrote: »
    What is the latest with the Gort / Crusheen By Pass?
    When is it due to open?

    2 to 3 overbridges open to traffic, due to open Summer this year.

    See here:

    M18 Ennis to Galway


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,106 antoobrien


    serfboard wrote: »
    Instead of campaigning in favour of a Claregalway relief road, why not campaign in favour of better public transport into Galway - in particular into the industrial estates - and more bus lanes in Galway.

    That won't prevent trucks having to use narrow country roads to bypass Claregalway in order to save anything between 5 & 40 mins just to get from Loughgeorge to the traffic lights in the village.

    After the accident last Thursday (http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0428/crash.html, http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055896880) this has to be brought onto the agenda or people will die. It's a miracle that we aren't talking about having possibly a dozen funerals in Galway over this.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,892 Head The Wall


    If you are driving on a National primary road and some one drives out in front of you the same thing happens as did last week. The people driving these cars that think a truck that is 40 times the weight of their can can stop dead in 100 metres are the problem here. You do realise those roads are not just used as shortcuts, there is a quarry down that direction, some factories, deliveries and a plethora of other reasons why they could be down that road.

    That crash happened during the day as well so your point is unfounded. Secondly they have as much point to use the road as anyone else as they have their taxes paid.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,106 antoobrien


    If you are driving on a National primary road and some one drives out in front of you the same thing happens as did last week. The people driving these cars that think a truck that is 40 times the weight of their can can stop dead in 100 metres are the problem here. You do realise those roads are not just used as shortcuts, there is a quarry down that direction, some factories, deliveries and a plethora of other reasons why they could be down that road.

    That crash happened during the day as well so your point is unfounded. Secondly they have as much point to use the road as anyone else as they have their taxes paid.

    a) the school is not an N road, it's on a well known 'rat run' around claregalway (yes I know it well, I avoid it because it's too narrow for the traffic that uses it). It is an L road and not a particulary good one
    b) there were several cars badly belonging to parents waiting to collect their children. These children were held back a few minutes.

    from the article you obviously didn't read:
    There were dramatic scenes in Galway this afternoon when a truck crashed into a row of cars outside a primary school.

    The accident happened just as parents were arriving at Cregmore National School, a short distance from Galway Airport, to collect their children.

    Five people, including two children and a grandmother, were taken to hospital as a precautionary measure.

    The truck crashed through a wall into the pick-up area of the school and the force of the collision resulted in an 11 car pile-up.

    School principal Joe Kennelly said it was extremely lucky that nobody was injured.

    He said parents and teachers pulled children out of the path of the oncoming truck.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,892 Head The Wall


    I am well aware of where this happened, the cause of that crash was someone pulled out in front of a truck, this happens on all types of road be they N, R, L roads etc this is my point. Are you implying that all trucks should be banned from these roads just because this happened.

    Trucks are as entitled to use these roads as anyone else unless there is a restriction put on them. You seem to be of the opinion that every truck on these roads is using them as a shortcut. You may not be aware that the guy that owned the truck lives just down past the school.


    How about you point the finger at the car that caused the accident, have you forgotten about the driver that pulled out in front of a vehicle and caused the crash which may have killed kids


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,033 ✭✭✭ veryangryman


    Reviving this just because...

    Based on the current vibe im getting from Leo V, i would guess that the CG bypass on its own would get built, thus a sticking plaster (Enfield/Kinnegad style) until economy back off its arse.

    Anyone agree?


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