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N4/N5: How should they be developed?
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MPB, try paragraphs next time willya.
I would like to state ( at the risk of getting howled down) that there is no justification for Dual of any sort save where the N5 and N4 come together , currently in Longford. And yet the land take for a WS2 is about the same as a Dual like the section around Dromod . Something gotta give somewhere .
By adopting the 'Tip' plan the fact is that there is then a justification to dual as far as Carrick on Shannon which is (as the crow flies) within 20 miles of Mayo . It is most unlikely that the Dual stretch will not be 2+2 motorway at 120kph.
This means that M50 to Carrick on Shannon will be an hour and a bit , say an hour and 5 minutes or an hour and 10 to which adding a 30km lep over north roscommon will mean that the eastern tip of Mayo is an hour and a half from the M50 , reliably , all year .
Furthermore motorways are restricted unlike the current N5 project where you may encounter tractors and 40mph dodderers who won't pull in
I therefore feel that Mayo people and Sligo people should join together in lobbying for a motorway to Carrick rather than a motorway to Longford , between you there is amuch better case than there is for an individual N4 and an individual N5 .
I am now inclining strongly towards the opinions of others in this thread about the archaeology around Tulsk , I was not aware of the scale of the 'complex' before this thread started .
Tourists see Motorways on maps and think of day tripping , once they see N roads they see hassle and do not make the trip .0 -
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Generally if I look at a map with a view to 'day tripping' or quick 'weekending' I see how far the motorway goes and calculate how long I can get to the general area . Much tourism is now short break tourism ...not dragging a caravan from Arbour Hill to Achill in an epic seven hour trip like it recently was ....to remain there for 2 weeks
If I see that Carrick is an hour and a bit from the M50 I will take my chances with the journey, if I think it will take 3 hours to Strokestown ( as now on a bank holiday) I will look instead at Galway where I will be west of the city from the M50 ...in 3 hours ...by next easter . One of those hours will be spent traversing the city but even then !!!!
I shall leave Dublin at 5pm and wish be most of the way to my destination by 8pm , I want to get a pint before the pub closes
So that is how I read the map and plan my getaway , I cannot be the only one . I would do the same from Munich or Milan where i can hire a car for a day or two.0 -
Sponge Bob wrote: »MPB, try paragraphs next time willya.
I would like to state ( at the risk of getting howled down) that there is no justification for Dual of any sort save where the N5 and N4 come together , currently in Longford. And yet the land take for a WS2 is about the same as a Dual like the section around Dromod . Something gotta give somewhere .
By adopting the 'Tip' plan the fact is that there is then a justification to dual as far as Carrick on Shannon which is (as the crow flies) within 20 miles of Mayo . It is most unlikely that the Dual stretch will not be 2+2 motorway at 120kph.
This means that M50 to Carrick on Shannon will be an hour and a bit , say an hour and 5 minutes or an hour and 10 to which adding a 30km lep over north roscommon will mean that the eastern tip of Mayo is an hour and a half from the M50 , reliably , all year .
Furthermore motorways are restricted unlike the current N5 project where you may encounter tractors and 40mph dodderers who won't pull in
I therefore feel that Mayo people and Sligo people should join together in lobbying for a motorway to Carrick rather than a motorway to Longford , between you there is amuch better case than there is for an individual N4 and an individual N5 .
I am now inclining strongly towards the opinions of others in this thread about the archaeology around Tulsk , I was not aware of the scale of the 'complex' before this thread started .
Tourists see Motorways on maps and think of day tripping , once they see N roads they see hassle and do not make the trip .
Ok so with paragraphs lol
I'm not gonna howl but just to come back on a few points.
1. I did say I ddnt know the NRA's plans whether they were planning single carriageway or dual carriageway. both have been suggested throught the forum so I'm not saying it should be dual carriageway. I would be happy with either as long as its better than whats currently there and is as direct as possible.
2. You mention as the crow flies. Adopting that theory between Mayo and Dublin, Carrick aint exactly in the path. I realise the issues with the archaeology around Tulsk but surely theres some way around it without having to go as far as Carrick. I dont know how much work has been done on investigating the in's and out's of it and have seen the map in the forum and it does look pretty big but surely theres a more viable option.
3. The eastern tip of Mayo is an awful long ways from the Western tip of Mayo. Its one big county as I'm sure you know. So whilst you may make the eastern tip in a pretty decent time theres a good hour more at best to the far west and I think I'm cutting it fine with an hour.
4. As for the chances of having an encounter with tractors and 40mph dodderers who won't pull in. your dead right there's bloody loads of them and its the height of ignorance them holding their position they do on the road sometimes holding up lines of traffic behind them.
5. As for your last point on the tourists and day tripping. Thats not what I meant although I suppose it is part of it. I was talking about the Irish mostly and as you know Westport is a huge tourist town and many go their for stags, hen's, a couple of days away midweek or weekend or whatever. I have done it myself a few times with work business and on leisure break's etc. The trouble at present being it takes so long to get there from Dublin. Now granted that a new road whatever the route will mean traffic can travel faster but the distance is further if you had to go to Carrick to adjoin the N5. it would put me off the new route and I'd just go the old way and I could see many others doing it too. Its a bit like the M4 and the old N4 going into Dublin. See how much traffic uses the old N4 every day. Now I know its for a difrferent reason (to avoid paying the toll) but I see a similar thing happening with the N5 if the distance is further on the new route.
My point is that any new road to anywhere in the country should really be as the crow flies as much as possible.
Westtip to come back on your point
"I don't think the arguments about it having a negative impact on Mayo tourism are entirely valid, and actually whilst you may have a point I don't think its strong enough argument against this alternative route - and as mentioned above in another post if something positive was made of the reasoning for this route - it may actually aid Roscommon tourism if they could make something of all that archaelogy as a protected area worth visiting. There are several ways of looking at every argument! "
The point was, if its further to get there then why not go somewhere closer and I think that is the way many would look at it. I think its worth mentioning that Mayo hasn't got a lot to offer in terms of industry other than the Gas project, which is a whole other issue and one I'm not gonna get into, there are lots of other forums covering that one. So tourism is a very viable industry in Mayo and in my opinion is something that would be threatened by this plan to reroute the N5 via Carrick. As you said there are several ways of looking at every argument. This is just mine.
All in all I am just for the most direct route possible and dont want to travel further than necessary. What I have said above is not meant to be of offence to anyone and I hope it hasnt been interpreted as so. I'm just merely stating my opinion.0 -
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One other item. Mayo Roads are designing a bloody massive project , the Westport - Bohola Dual Carriageway ( all 40 km of it) . This got €2.5m of NRA money in 2009 alone .
http://www.regdesign.com/Projects/N5%20Westport-Bohola%20Road%20Project.html
I personally think that this clouds matters , what is important now is the 70km from Mullingar to Carrick together with the 35km from Carrick to the West of Ballaghadereen and which would service all of north Connacht . The road from the Mayo border to Castlebar is pretty adequate and would not frighten anyone .
I think the goat tracks across the midlands have effectively divided the country over the years. When one had an opportunity to travel across the country ( of a weekend) in the past one then had to negotiate a string of Abbeyleixes and Mountraths and Longfords and Moates and ( Sponge Bob clenches his buttocks at the very thought of it ) the Drumsna/Jamestown double bridges for most of the 1990s for Gods sake
Once you take the goat track bits out of the equation between Galway and the M50 , together with Ballinasloe Enfield Kinnegad Loughrea and Moate , the difference on a friday evening is about 3 hours .
In census 2006 (data ) the population of Galway was 210,000 persons . The population of all of Sligo Leitrim Roscommon and Mayo is 255,000 persons of whom only a few in south Roscommon have benefited from the M6 .
Adding in Longford and South Donegal ( south of the Blue Stacks) and you get over 300,000 in the catchment .
With a Motorway to Carrick it would be possible to get M50 to Donegal town in 3 hours and Donegal Town would be 50 miles from the end of such a motorway ( via Sligo) where Cooloney would be 20 miles . I take all the usual points about heavy traffic but that last 50 miles should be do-able in 1.5 hours .
And for those who remember Jamestown and its narrow streets ......do remember it was originally build by by the English to keep the Irish out and then taken over by Cromwell to keep the Irish penned into Mayo and Roscommon , let's not do that to ourselves...shall we ??
http://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/coclare/images/cromwellmap_big.jpg0 -
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