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Supreme Court says no women need apply to Golf Club. Mod warning post 119

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Comments

  • #242
    WindSock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,239 ✭✭✭✭WindSock


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Errr that gets my vote for most sexist comment ever!


    I don't understand. Why or how is it sexist? Or the most sexist you have ever seen? Are you joking or serious? I don't know?


  • #243
    WindSock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,239 ✭✭✭✭WindSock


    MizzLolly wrote: »
    I was very annoyed when I heard about this but you're actually right now that I think about it. My pole dance classes are women-only, guys are not allowed to join. Damn, now I'm torn on this one. I guess it does happen to men all the time. :(
    MagicMarker wrote: »
    It must be because women feel self conscious dancing provocatively around a pole when there's a man present. :rolleyes:


    Well yeah. As a pole dancing class you can appreciate not every woman there is not a stripper. It's great excercise. Also, if they are strippers they are hardly going to give away for free what they get paid for.

    Is there a demand for male pole dancing classes?


  • #244
    WindSock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,239 ✭✭✭✭WindSock


    Procasinator wrote: »
    Any gym I went to provided separate toilets and showers for each gender.

    Anyhow, this logic doesn't float with me.

    The guys in the club might want to talk about issues that they might not be comfortable to talk about in front of women.

    If guys have to be place in uncomfortable situations (which is subjective), then why do girls get to keep this luxury.

    Why can't a club (a private club, that is) decide who is appropriate members and who is not.

    That's fine, but what do the golf members club have a policy that excludes women? Why don't they just call it a gents club so everyone knows what is in the box?


  • #245
    Zulu
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,967 ✭✭✭✭Zulu


    Newaglish wrote: »
    Why are Mammy and Daddy fighting? :(
    I'm sorry, I didn't mean to fight! It's just I wanted Mammy to tell the truth, and she won't. And we all know what happens when people lie, don't we?
    Thats right, baby jesus cries in heaven. :(

    WindSock wrote:
    ...on the stats or link I have provided
    Where?

    I hope you are not implying that I'm a "gay black jewish transsexual golf playing lesbian".


  • #246
    WindSock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,239 ✭✭✭✭WindSock


    Zulu wrote: »
    I hope you are not implying that I'm a "gay black jewish transsexual golf playing lesbian".

    Why, would that be an insult?


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  • #247
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    WindSock wrote: »
    Well yeah. As a pole dancing class you can appreciate not every woman there is not a stripper. It's great excercise. Also, if they are strippers they are hardly going to give away for free what they get paid for.

    Where did I say every woman is a stripper?
    WindSock wrote: »
    Is there a demand for male pole dancing classes?

    Probably not, does that make it less sexist to have female only classes?


  • #248
    Zulu
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,967 ✭✭✭✭Zulu


    WindSock wrote: »
    Why, would that be an insult?
    No, just another inaccuracy trotted out as fact without any proof what-so-ever. ;)


  • #249
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    WindSock wrote: »
    That's fine, but what do the golf members club have a policy that excludes women? Why don't they just call it a gents club so everyone knows what is in the box?

    Are you saying you wouldn't have a problem with it being men only if it were called a ''gent's club'' rather than a golf club?


  • #250
    WindSock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,239 ✭✭✭✭WindSock


    MagicMarker wrote: »
    Where did I say every woman is a stripper?

    You didn't. I did. My point was strippers are professionals and feel less insecure about dancing provocativley around strange men than the rest of women. Seeing as pole dancing classes are not in a lapdancing club, I would imagine most of those women wouldn't be comfortable with strange men in the class.
    Probably not, does that make it less sexist to have female only classes?

    No. It's not comparing like with like. A lap dancing class or Curves isn't a purely social activity. It is a physical one. By that logic I could complain that they don't let women into the Mens Leinster Rugby team.


  • #251
    WindSock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,239 ✭✭✭✭WindSock


    MagicMarker wrote: »
    Are you saying you wouldn't have a problem with it being men only if it were called a ''gent's club'' rather than a golf club?

    I would have less of a problem with it. I would have less again if it weren't a strict rule or policy to exclude women. Are they allowed to exclude black people?


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  • #252
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    WindSock wrote: »
    You didn't. I did. My point was strippers are professionals and feel less insecure about dancing provocativley around strange men than the rest of women. Seeing as pole dancing classes are not in a lapdancing club, I would imagine most of those women wouldn't be comfortable with strange men in the class.

    No. It's not comparing like with like. A lap dancing class or Curves isn't a purely social activity. It is a physical one. By that logic I could complain that they don't let women into the Mens Leinster Rugby team.

    Once again bringing up ''security''. You're focusing on some women's insecurities and applying it to all women and using this as an excuse (a poor one at that) for women only gyms/classes etc. As I've already pointed out in this thread, males also have insecurities, possibly just a much as females! *shock horror*.

    I really don't care about women only classes, or gyms. I just find it laughable that a ''feminist'' such as yourself can argue against a male only club while defending female only clubs. It's hypocrisy of the highest order.


  • #253
    MikeC101
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,707 ✭✭✭MikeC101


    Don't really understand the "women only gyms/classes are ok, men only clubs aren't" mentality to be honest. When you start defending this outlook on some abstract notions of insecurites, the argument doesn't really hold up. If you think one is ok, you're admitting you see reasons for exclusion based on gender. Why can those reasons only apply to one gender?

    If a private club wants to discriminate, it should be free to do so, without being forced not to do so by the state. Hence, women only clubs are fine, as are men only. Certainly I'd raise an eyebrow at Portmarnock letting women play but not allowing them full membership and consider that hypocritical, but again, as a private club, they can do it if they want.


  • #254
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    I love how, on these threads, all women are held accountable for misandry.

    You know the way when men are made to feel crap because of the actions of a few of them...?


  • #255
    MikeC101
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,707 ✭✭✭MikeC101


    WindSock wrote: »
    You didn't. I did. My point was strippers are professionals and feel less insecure about dancing provocativley around strange men than the rest of women. Seeing as pole dancing classes are not in a lapdancing club, I would imagine most of those women wouldn't be comfortable with strange men in the class.

    Those golfers on the television are professionals and feel less insecure about waving their big clubs about in front of strange women than the rest of us men.

    I certainly don't want strange women ogling my buttocks as I wear my skin tight imitation leather plus twos on the golf course! Plus I'm insecure about my golfing ability, as last time I played I managed to hit a truck with the ball. :(


  • #256
    WindSock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,239 ✭✭✭✭WindSock


    MagicMarker wrote: »
    Once again bringing up ''security''. You're focusing on some women's insecurities and applying it to all women and using this as an excuse (a poor one at that) for women only gyms/classes etc. As I've already pointed out in this thread, males also have insecurities, possibly just a much as females! *shock horror*.

    I really don't care about women only classes, or gyms. I just find it laughable that a ''feminist'' such as yourself can argue against a male only club while defending female only clubs. It's hypocrisy of the highest order.

    Not really. I haven't ever condemned male only gyms. Like I said, it's not like with like.

    A secure and safe environement for females to work out is hardly a poor excuse for having them.


  • #257
    MikeC101
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,707 ✭✭✭MikeC101


    WindSock wrote: »
    A secure and safe environement for females to work out is hardly a poor excuse for having them.

    Would having men in the gym would make it an insecure and dangerous environment?

    Anyway, I agree that female only gyms are a good idea. Why not, if there's a demand for them. Similarly, men only clubs are ok too. The choice of wording (secure and safe) is a little much though, no?


  • #258
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    WindSock wrote: »
    Not really. I haven't ever condemned male only gyms. Like I said, it's not like with like.

    A secure and safe environement for females to work out is hardly a poor excuse for having them.

    Wow. Just, wow.

    I think I'm done with talking to you Windsock.


  • #259
    WindSock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,239 ✭✭✭✭WindSock


    MikeC101 wrote: »
    I certainly don't want strange women ogling my buttocks as I wear my skin tight imitation leather plus twos on the golf course! Plus I'm insecure about my golfing ability, as last time I played I managed to hit a truck with the ball. :(

    You don't have to wear skin tight leather pants on a golf course if you don't want to.
    Ability has nothing to do with women on the course. Likewise, not having men in a gym. Or in a shower for that matter.


  • #260
    speedboatchase
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,891 ✭✭✭speedboatchase


    MikeC101 wrote: »
    Anyway, I agree that female only gyms are a good idea. Why not, if there's a demand for them. Similarly, men only clubs are ok too.

    Agreed, can we just stop this pointless argument between two people on this thread? Private female and male only gyms/clubs etc are perfectly fine and should co-exist. Hopefully this legislation will allow Portmarnock to exist without any legal challenges or public derision in the same way Curves exists today


  • #261
    Zulu
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,967 ✭✭✭✭Zulu


    WindSock wrote: »
    No. It's not comparing like with like. A lap dancing class or Curves isn't a purely social activity. It is a physical one.
    Golf is physical. Seriously - what is your point?


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  • #262
    WindSock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,239 ✭✭✭✭WindSock


    MikeC101 wrote: »
    Would having men in the gym would make it an insecure and dangerous environment?

    Anyway, I agree that female only gyms are a good idea. Why not, if there's a demand for them. Similarly, men only clubs are ok too. The choice of wording (secure and safe) is a little much though, no?

    Not really when you consider the amount of women that have encountered unwanted negative attention from males.
    For the rest of those women, or for the rest who can manage, they don't mind using mixed gyms.

    Not only that, but equipment in Curves caters to the female form.


  • #263
    WindSock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,239 ✭✭✭✭WindSock


    Zulu wrote: »
    Golf is physical. Seriously - what is your point?


    I didn't say it wasn't. But women aren't excluded from playing. They are excluded from the Golf Club Membership. Doesn't really make much sense.

    Can they do that to black people?


  • #264
    speedboatchase
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,891 ✭✭✭speedboatchase


    WindSock wrote: »
    Not really when you consider the amount of women that have encountered unwanted negative attention from males.
    For the rest of those women, or for the rest who can manage, they don't mind using mixed gyms.

    Not only that, but equipment in Curves caters to the female form.

    I've read a few of your posts and I don't actually get the point you're making, I mean no offence. Are you against a male-only golf club? Are you against all private clubs restricting a gender or do you consider it a case by case basic?


  • #265
    Zulu
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,967 ✭✭✭✭Zulu


    Do you want to allow exclusion based on sex (re: Portmarnock, Curves, ICA, pole dancing classes) or not?


  • #266
    speedboatchase
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,891 ✭✭✭speedboatchase


    WindSock wrote: »
    I didn't say it wasn't. But women aren't excluded from playing. They are excluded from the Golf Club Membership. Doesn't really make much sense.

    Can they do that to black people?

    Sure why not, if I want to create a private club for only members of my race I don't see the problem. Same goes for if I want to start a private religious club and don't want other faiths involved. And the exclusions of being members but still allowed play on Portmarnocks part was probably an ill-advised concession to help public relations


  • #267
    Zulu
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,967 ✭✭✭✭Zulu


    Dudess wrote: »
    I love how, on these threads, all women are held accountable for misandry.
    I didn't see noone holding you accountable for nothin'! :p


  • #268
    WindSock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,239 ✭✭✭✭WindSock


    speedboatchase wrote: »
    I've read a few of your posts and I don't actually get the point you're making, I mean no offence. Are you against a male-only golf club?

    No. I am not against a male only golf club. I am against that they feel they must make it a policy to exclude female membership yet let them play on the course. And exclude females from socialising in the club in which they are allowed play. They call it a Golf Club. Why not just call it a Mens Club? (The social part)


  • #269
    WindSock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,239 ✭✭✭✭WindSock


    speedboatchase wrote: »
    Are you against all private clubs restricting a gender or do you consider it a case by case basic?

    I amn't against all private clubs restricting gender. But I think it would depend on some cases where it is a social club whether it should be done or not. Or even a strict policy.


  • #270
    speedboatchase
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,891 ✭✭✭speedboatchase


    WindSock wrote: »
    No. I am not against a male only golf club. I am against that they feel they must make it a policy to exclude female membership yet let them play on the course. And exclude females from socialising in the club in which they are allowed play. They call it a Golf Club. Why not just call it a Mens Club? (The social part)

    So if they banned women from playing altogether and called it a Mens Golf Club? Calling it a simply a Mens Club might be confusing.


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  • #271
    WindSock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,239 ✭✭✭✭WindSock


    speedboatchase wrote: »
    So if they banned women from playing altogether and called it a Mens Golf Club? Calling it a simply a Mens Club might be confusing.

    Or the Mens Club could be annexed from the Golf Club itself :p

    I am more interested in general attitudes towards women in this country rather than a sports and social club, tbh. I personally don't give a hoot about golf or stuffy old boys.
    However if I did love golf and ran a business I might feel differently.


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