Hate the English??

sharky86 · 02-10-2009 11:30PM

Happy Monday wrote: »

Who was who said that patrioism is the last refuge of the scoundrel?

Not sure but he was right.

Celtic, the IRA, 1916 - these things that some people believe define them actually divide them.

And you can keep it.....

Why do people for the most part actually and genuinely compare (and tarnish) the old IRA of the early 20th century with the drug dealers and murders of new - the so called Provo's etc. The "old" IRA actually had a reason to take up arms and had legit targets etc whlist these scum plant fire bombs in clothes shops and sell coke and smack to junkies??

Kind off tread I know but just a question I wanted to put out there

DoireNod · 02-10-2009 11:37PM

sharky86 wrote: »

Why do people for the most part actually and genuinely compare (and tarnish) the old IRA of the early 20th century with the drug dealers and murders of new - the so called Provo's etc. The "old" IRA actually had a reason to take up arms and had legit targets etc whlist these scum plant fire bombs in clothes shops and sell coke and smack to junkies??

Kind off tread I know but just a question I wanted to put out there

If you say that the old IRA of the early 20th century were legit, then the Provos have to be too. They have (had) the same reason to be taking up arms as the old IRA.

And don't try to tell me the old IRA did nothing illegal. Seriously.

sharky86 · 02-10-2009 11:47PM

DoireNod wrote: »

If you say that the old IRA of the early 20th century were legit, then the Provos have to be too. They have (had) the same reason to be taking up arms as the old IRA.

And don't try to tell me the old IRA did nothing illegal. Seriously.

I never said they didnt do anything illegal as the Law at that time was made by the english true or false? Their every action was illegal but what I'm sayng is that it was then a time to take up arms and in my opinion it was the right thing to do..like it or not if they didnt then we could very well be still under british rule and we would not have all this Lisbon craic we're having at the minute.. The time for weapons has pasted that God and its now time for polictics. the "IRA" have laid down there weapons but you get these break away groups (the so-called "real IRA" and the CIRA, and that group in Cork I think it was that handed out leafets in pubs a while back) who disregarded this an continue to use force that is no longer needed or wanted. They obtain there funds from selling drugs, guns, sex trade and various other things. But just because there choose to include the three letters I R A in there name people automaticaly throw the same brush at everyone.. I.E. the old "IRA2 and the provo's off today are different organisions...you just proved my point

DoireNod · 02-10-2009 11:56PM

sharky86 wrote: »

I never said they didnt do anything illegal as the Law at that time was made by the english true or false? Their every action was illegal but what I'm sayng is that it was then a time to take up arms and in my opinion it was the right thing to do..like it or not if they didnt then we could very well be still under british rule and we would not have all this Lisbon craic we're having at the minute.. The time for weapons has pasted that God and its now time for polictics. the "IRA" have laid down there weapons but you get these break away groups (the so-called "real IRA" and the CIRA, and that group in Cork I think it was that handed out leafets in pubs a while back) who disregarded this an continue to use force that is no longer needed or wanted. They obtain there funds from selling drugs, guns, sex trade and various other things. But just because there choose to include the three letters I R A in there name people automaticaly throw the same brush at everyone.. I.E. the old "IRA2 and the provo's off today are different organisions...you just proved my point

I shouldn't have contributed to the entirely off-topic discussion.

IIMII · 03-10-2009 12:07AM

getz wrote: »

...go to england to find a good chip shop

There's culture for ya..!

sharky86 · 03-10-2009 12:16AM

nicer indian resterrants anyway

getz · 03-10-2009 11:11AM

IIMII wrote: »

There's culture for ya..!

while you are paying five or six euros for a geasy studge,i can buy a fish[fresh daily] and a bag of chips from a local award winning chipshop, for 99p in fleetwood,near the stenna irish ferry terminal.

IIMII · 03-10-2009 11:17AM

getz wrote: »

while you are paying five or six euros for a geasy studge,i can buy a fish[fresh daily] and a bag of chips from a local award winning chipshop, for 99p in fleetwood,near the stenna irish ferry terminal.

I'm delighted for you. The only problem is from my point of view, is that it's just not Ireland. Much as I enjoy visiting your island, I'm always delighted to come back to my own, and the odd bag of chips isn't going to change that. Each to their own I suppose.

Does your fish glow in the dark?

Terrontress · 03-10-2009 11:18AM

It can't be very good fish if it comes with chips for a pound. I have seen fish and chips in London in a place called Olley's for £10 take away. But the portions are all very good in London. Even when you are only paying £3.50.

Chicken Run · 03-10-2009 11:24AM

Elliemental wrote: »

Ah but, here in Ireland you get cheesey chips. You get none of that in England. And I wouldn`t have minded, but cheese and chips together sound so wrong, but they`re just so lovely!:D

You can get cheesy chips in Sunderland....

and chips & gravy in Yorkshire.

getz · 03-10-2009 11:37AM

Terrontress wrote: »

It can't be very good fish if it comes with chips for a pound. I have seen fish and chips in London in a place called Olley's for £10 take away. But the portions are all very good in London. Even when you are only paying £3.50.

i dont like london fish and chips, but as fleetwood is a deep sea fishing port ,all our fish are straight of the boats,you cannot get fresher

radioactiveman · 03-10-2009 11:46AM

Kradock wrote: »

After todays vote Ireland will soon have an English President.
Step forward Tony Blair.

Yes but if that's true there is also the possibility that England will have an Irish president at some point...

getz · 03-10-2009 12:05PM

radioactiveman wrote: »

Yes but if that's true there is also the possibility that England will have an Irish president at some point...

i know it would be great to have a irish president over a third of people in parts of the uk have a irish ancestor and we would welcome it,but i am not sure if any of us like tony blair,even the pope is comming over to the UK next year,[i can never imagine the irish greeting the queen over there] does that make the british more enlightened ?

IIMII · 03-10-2009 12:50PM

getz wrote: »

[i can never imagine the irish greeting the queen over there] does that make the british more enlightened ?

That you have a queen? No, unfortunately the opposite in fact. More medieval than enlightened I'm afraid

getz · 03-10-2009 12:59PM

IIMII wrote: »

That you have a queen? No, unfortunately the opposite in fact. More medieval than enlightened I'm afraid

lets not get into the catholic v queen thing ,i know who will win, in the UK irish citizens enjoy certain additional rights over and above EU rights, millions of irish men and woman/and the irish goverment are more than grateful that is so,

blinding · 03-10-2009 12:59PM

getz wrote: »

i know it would be great to have a irish president over a third of people in parts of the uk have a irish ancestor and we would welcome it,but i am not sure if any of us like tony blair,even the pope is comming over to the UK next year,[i can never imagine the irish greeting the queen over there] does that make the british more enlightened ?

The queen probably could come to Ireland if

That law that stops the British Monarch from marrying a catholic was dropped

Pressure was kept up on Unionists to implement the Good Friday agreement in full.

To be honest thats not a lot to ask considering the history between our two countries.

Incidently I believe that the Pope should not Visit Britain until the law concerning the Monarch is dropped.
If catholics are regarded as some sort of second class citizens in Britain why should the Pope visit until this is changed.

furiousox · 03-10-2009 01:00PM

burner2009 wrote: »

the english are nothing but a pack of hun bastards

riiiiiighhhtt....so what does that make us?
a pack of fenian b@stards?
grow up!:mad:

getz · 03-10-2009 01:11PM

blinding wrote: »

The queen probably could come to Ireland if

That law that stops the British Monarch from marrying a catholic was dropped

Pressure was kept up on Unionists to implement the Good Friday agreement in full.

To be honest thats not a lot to ask considering the history between our two countries.

Incidently I believe that the Pope should not Visit Britain until the law concerning the Monarch is dropped.
If catholics are regarded as some sort of second class citizens in Britain why should the Pope visit until this is changed.

how can you say that catholics are a second class citizen in britian ?i can prove that protestants have been classed as second class citizens in the eyes of the catholic church and the republic, my father could only marry my non catholic mother if all the children were raised catholic,and if you think the queen is a medieval monarch,what the hell is the pope ?it is up to the people in northern ireland to decide their own destiny not you or i,and thats the way it should always be,live with it.

IIMII · 03-10-2009 01:17PM

getz wrote: »

how can you say that catholics are a second class citizen in britian ?i can prove that protestants have been classed as second class citizens in the eyes of the catholic church and the republic, my father could only marry my non catholic mother if all the children were raised catholic,and if you think the queen is a medieval monarch,what the hell is the pope ?it is up to the people in northern ireland to decide their own destiny not you or i,and thats the way it should always be,live with it.

Huh? What has the pope got to do with Ireland? He may be the head of the Vatican state, but last time I checked he was nothing more to do with the Irish state than the English one. In relation to the north, what has it got to do with you? At some point there will be a referendum with a yes vote here in the six counties and that will be that.

DoireNod · 03-10-2009 01:26PM

getz wrote: »

how can you say that catholics are a second class citizen in britian ?i can prove that protestants have been classed as second class citizens in the eyes of the catholic church and the republic, my father could only marry my non catholic mother if all the children were raised catholic,and if you think the queen is a medieval monarch,what the hell is the pope ?it is up to the people in northern ireland to decide their own destiny not you or i,and thats the way it should always be,live with it.

Catholics have definitely been treated as second class citizens by Protestants, especially in Ireland and Britain, there's no denying that. The pope isn't the head of state in Ireland either.

RiverWilde · 03-10-2009 01:32PM

Good grief what's with all the Brit bashing? I'm sure that if most people living in Ireland had a look at their family they'd find someone who was British along the way.

Personally I think breaking from the UK was a mistake especially considering what we've done with the country since.

However, we are where we are and hating our neighbours is just daft. How many people out there watch UK tv? support UK football teams? have friends and family living in the UK and god forbid some of them might even hold dual citizenship!!!! :eek:

I think deep down we're more British in parts than we'd like to think.

Riv

furiousox · 03-10-2009 01:33PM

RiverWilde wrote: »

Good grief what's with all the Brit bashing? I'm sure that if most people living in Ireland had a look at their family they'd find someone who was British along the way.

Personally I think breaking from the UK was a mistake especially considering what we've done with the country since.

However, we are where we are and hating our neighbours is just daft. How many people out there watch UK tv? support UK football teams? have friends and family living in the UK and god forbid some of them might even hold dual citizenship!!!! :eek:

I think deep down we're more British in parts than we'd like to think.

Riv

+1

blinding · 03-10-2009 01:34PM

getz wrote: »

how can you say that catholics are a second class citizen in britian ?i can prove that protestants have been classed as second class citizens in the eyes of the catholic church and the republic, my father could only marry my non catholic mother if all the children were raised catholic,and if you think the queen is a medieval monarch,what the hell is the pope ?it is up to the people in northern ireland to decide their own destiny not you or i,and thats the way it should always be,live with it.

Calm down, calm down.
You got into a tizzy there didn't you. No time for punctuation or capital letters.
I make some perfectly reasonable suggestions and you fly off the handle as if to say those Irish are not entitled to give their opinion.

As I understand it that catholic rule (which was wrong) that said all children had to be brought up catholic is gone.

Then you are so het up you even mix my post up with some one elses re: the medieval monarch and medievel pope.

Like it or not (and i don't particularly) one is head of state of your country and simultaneously head of a sectional church.

There is a lot wrong with the catholic church but the Pope is its leader and should be respected for that as the British head of state should be.

Like it or not there is a law in place that stipulates that a catholic is unsuitable for a certain role.
You cannot be any more discriminatory than that.

Substitute the word catholic for muslim, Hindu, Budhist, Protestant, Black, Indian, Pakastani, Aborigine, Maori and so on and ask people is discrimination taking place.

It is truly remarkable that it is okay to discriminate against catholics in Britain in this day and age.

What is even more remarkable is the lengths that some people will go to deny it. The verbal gymnastics that are attempted are entertaining on the one hand but extremly sad on the other.

Elliemental · 03-10-2009 01:39PM

blinding wrote: »

The queen probably could come to Ireland if

That law that stops the British Monarch from marrying a catholic was dropped

Incidently I believe that the Pope should not Visit Britain until the law concerning the Monarch is dropped.
If catholics are regarded as some sort of second class citizens in Britain why should the Pope visit until this is changed.

Rightly or wrongly, the English Queen is head of the Church of England, which is a Protestant church. So surely you can see where the problems occurr.
But, speaking as an English woman myself, the sooner we rid ourselves of the Monarch and completely separate the church and state, the better.

blinding · 03-10-2009 01:50PM

Elliemental wrote: »

Rightly or wrongly, the English Queen is head of the Church of England, which is a Protestant church. So surely you can see where the problems occurr.
But, speaking as an English woman myself, the sooner we rid ourselves of the Monarch and completely separate the church and state, the better.

Well it is unfair that catholics are singularly excluded.(Extremely bad in my opinion)

It probably would be better if the church was dis-established but the Anglican church will not like to give up all those nice Lordships in the house of Lords. Its not only the catholic church that like their cushy positions of influence.

Under the present system the Monarch would certainly have to be Anglican but this does still not explain why catholics have to be singled out.

lightning_saa · 03-10-2009 01:52PM

Coming over hear stealing our jobs
forlorn

getz · 03-10-2009 02:27PM

DoireNod wrote: »

Catholics have definitely been treated as second class citizens by Protestants, especially in Ireland and Britain, there's no denying that. The pope isn't the head of state in Ireland either.

isent he ? 1983,the official statement made by irish bishops to the new irish forum quote,a catholic country and its goverment where there is considerable catholic ethics and consensus shouldent feel it necessary to opologise that its legal system may sometimes be represented as offensive to minorites. the privilege of the roman church in the 1937 constitution,was a breach of the UNs commision of the rights of man,[freedom of thought ,conscience, and religion.] Fianna Fail said ,quote,it would be a waste of time to talk about changing the consitution ,so as to make it acceptable to the unionists,thats not a way to signal to the northern citizens you want them to join.in 1995 the the protestants bishops had to fight a rearguard action with other protestant churches to force dublins minister of education to allow maintenance of minority rights threatened by white paper proposal,most important political changes in the republic are ,first passed over by the bishops ,even new stronger laws [blasphemy ]are instigated by the church,so please dont tell me the pope has no say in running ireland

DoireNod · 03-10-2009 02:32PM

getz wrote: »

isent he ? 1983,the official statement made by irish bishops to the new irish forum quote,a catholic country and its goverment where there is considerable catholic ethics and consensus shouldent feel it necessary to opologise that its legal system may sometimes be represented as offensive to minorites. the privilege of the roman church in the 1937 constitution,was a breach of the UNs commision of the rights of man,[freedom of thought ,conscience, and religion.] Fianna Fail said ,quote,it would be a waste of time to talk about changing the consitution ,so as to make it acceptable to the unionists,thats not a way to signal to the northern citizens you want them to join.in 1995 the the protestants bishops had to fight a rearguard action with other protestant churches to force dublins minister of education to allow maintenance of minority rights threatened by white paper proposal,most important political changes in the republic are ,first passed over by the bishops ,even new stronger laws [blasphemy ]are instigated by the church,so please dont tell me the pope has no say in running ireland

I said that the Pope isn't the head of state in Ireland. Which he isn't. Your claim that the Pope has a say in the running of Ireland may have a slight truth to it, but then again it may be nothing more than speculation. The fact remains that he's not the head of state.

ejmaztec · 03-10-2009 02:35PM

That would be an ecumenical matter.

getz · 03-10-2009 02:45PM

DoireNod wrote: »

I said that the Pope isn't the head of state in Ireland. Which he isn't. Your claim that the Pope has a say in the running of Ireland may have a slight truth to it, but then again it may be nothing more than speculation. The fact remains that he's not the head of state.

but the queen as head of state cannot make laws,or influence the goverment, she dosent even write her one speach to parliament,the queen is only a figure head, and have you noticed that when a country gets rid of a monarchy, they elect a president ?

Hate the English??

Comments