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Western Rail Corridor

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    #2342
    Carawaystick
    Registered Users Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    rikki2 wrote: »
    • Rail is a much more comfortable means of transport than Bus
      Not always, some coaches are more comfortable than some trains
    • It's a more reliable service in terms of time and traffic management
      Not always - if there is a single train breakdown, the whole line is stopped. stopping all trains until the problem is fixed. this can take days or weeks or longer.
    • You can take your bicycle on the train which you cant on a bus
      You can take bikes in the hold in most coaches if there's room
    • This line would provide a commuter link to towns outside Bus Eireanns routes. There is no bus service from Tubbercurry to Kiltimagh, Swineford. Alot of Bus Eireanns routes between these towns are limited to one or 2 services a week.

      If there is no bus providing this service, maybe that's cos it's not viable. there are several coach companies running Dublin Galway services - because it is a profitable route. if noone wants to go from Kiltimagh to Tubbercurry at the times the bus gos, how can it make any money.
    • This route provides a rail link between 4 major cities in Ireland. Sligo, Galway, Limerick and Cork.

      There is no Limerick Cork rail link. there is a Limerick - Limerick Junction and Limerick junction- Cork service.

      Sligo's not a major city, same as Kilkenny and Newry aren't
    • Added infrastructure can only bring benefits to the region by connecting these provincial towns with added Tourism.

    • It will provide a rail link connecting Knock Airport; handy for people jetting away on Holidays. I dont see any Bus Erieann Coaches climbing their way into Knock Airport
      How far is it from the nearest train platform to Departures in Ireland Airport West?
    • It would provide freight transport taking traffic off the roads.
      would it? what freight generating industry is located right beside a train station and would not need to be transported by lorry there anyway? Galmoy mine is very close to the the Dublin Cork rail line but the govt decided all the ore should be trucked. there would not be anything like this amount of freight generated near the wrc.
    • It can be a more enviromentally friendly economic means of transport and could be electrified.
      More economic than what?

    see the green bits


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    #2343
    T Corolla
    Closed Accounts Posts: 611 ✭✭✭T Corolla


    corktina wrote: »
    you assume wrong. I believe that all that has been done is to lay new track and ballast on the existing formation. How do you imagine the journey times will improve with opening through to Athenry?
    I would assume that Irish rail would have the same standard as the ON TRACK 2000 project where jointed tracks were replaced with continuous welded lines and that it would have had to have the line constructed to some European standard making it cheaper in the long run. I viewed some of the photos on the web and visited the line in the last six months and walked part of it and remembered it being as good as the Dublin Sligo line. I find it hard to see that spending 100 million on the stretch would have not yielded a better infrastructure. I will agree with you and ask you this question. A journey from Limerick to Galway would be similar to that of Dublin Connolly to Edgeworthtown approx 107km journey time of approx 1hr 30 mins by train on reasonably good tracks so I feel that if the journey from Limerick to Galway is the something similar I hope. Do you know was there issues in purchasing land from owner adjacent to the line that would have left Irish rail with limited options to improve the line or are they going to bleed the taxpayer for more money in later years to purchase land to straighten the line out


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    #2344
    dowlingm
    Registered Users Posts: 5,327 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    Ah T Corolla. You have great faith. Brian Lenihan should sign you on to sell NAMA.
    The Dublin to Sligo is the third largest service provided by Irish rail after Dublin to Cork and Dublin Galway carrying 1.34 million passenger is 2008.
    How many of them go west of Mullingar? How many west of Longford?

    rikki2 - if you have as you claim read the whole thread then you know the pros and cons. It's almost time this thread was locked as we must have repeated all the arguments 10 times at this stage. Either you believe that those against the WRC are giving their opinion in good faith or you believe the paranoia bridge that tis all a plot against the wesht.

    It isn't. The merrygoround of "shure what harm, we have the money" has stopped now and there has to be an accounting for why IE were forced to reinstate a line it didn't want and while doing so have done it to the minimum but not to the extent that would make it competitive - and without a driver or a railcar yet allocated to it.


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    #2345
    T Corolla
    Closed Accounts Posts: 611 ✭✭✭T Corolla


    I cannot supply the number of passengers that travel west of mullingar or longford but the service is improving in the last ten years. In the next ten years hopefully the journey times to Sligo will decrease futher with possible double tracking from Maynooth to Mullingar and maybe futher. The point i am making is that only a certin amount of money can be alloted to each railway over a certin number of years as you know there was no projects alloted to the sligo line in T21 but I am sure post 2015 there will infrastructure changes made to the line. Getting back to the WRC I hope that the service is a sucess as was limerick to ennis and that irish rail management pick up on this and improve the service and bring down journey times. The only way this can be achieved is support from the patronage along the line and tourism who will use the service. In a country of four million people you can only afford some much infrastructure upgrade. If the west of ireland had the whole of the population of ireland there would be intercity services on the hour from cork and I believe that there would be direct rail service from cork to limerick not needing to pass through limerick junction as it the current suitation. I used the Ennis to Limerick for a week last year in the winter time and I took the 06:00 to Limerick and there were at least 40 people on board and the service arrived on time and I returned with the last service and it too was pretty full each evening. Each service that is put on people should support as this is the only way to improve it and show IR that it is viable.
    If I worked for Irish rail I would sell tickets at 10% above break even point to get patronage on board to make the service work and in the last year IR have started to read the stats and given value for money on most commuter and intercity services and believe me people are taking advantage of it. One particular service was the 9:05 from Connolly to Sligo has poor loadings and when IR introduced the web fares I noticed a big difference in the number of people using it and I use this services five days a week


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    #2346
    Nostradamus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 621 ✭✭✭Nostradamus


    The Sligo trains loses about half its passengers between Maynooth and Mullingar. Then about 2/3rds of the remainder at Longford.

    By the time it reaches Sligo Mega City One empty carraiges are not uncommon. Even on 6 unit DMUs.

    Sligo International Urban Mass Transit Center for the Garavogue Urban Metrpolis handles about as many passengers a day as most rural branch lines stations in the UK.




    What is it about Western Rail Corridor supporters that the obvious reality right in front of their noses is a huge issue for them to come to terms with.


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    #2347
    westtip
    Registered Users Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    Nostradamus wrote: »


    What is it about Western Rail Corridor supporters that the obvious reality right in front of their noses is a huge issue for them to come to terms with.


    Sad but true Nosty.


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    #2348
    westtip
    Registered Users Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    unit 1 wrote: »
    hi still new to this,
    just a thought even though money probably better spent on roads than wrc doesnt mean gov will give it if they dont give money for rail.
    if you dont put up a case in this country no matter how bad you just wont get funding for anything in the west, fact of life .
    as to those who say its not vfm " so what " its better than nothing
    good value for money needs intelligent planning and government
    where the hell will you ever get that in this banama republic

    Read some of this thread and keep taking the pills.


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    #2349
    Nostradamus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 621 ✭✭✭Nostradamus


    Trainspotters never change do they:

    from IRN from a Well Known WRC Activist...
    Reality...where are all the IE oil tankers gone?????

    A 45-year-old man died in a crash outside Milltown, Co Galway, this morning.

    The collision between a car and an oil tanker happened shortly after 7.40am on the main N17 road between Milltown and Ballindine, Co Mayo.

    The deceased man was removed to Galway University Hospital.

    http://irnirishrailwaynews.yuku.com/sreply/32781/t/New-IWT-Freight-service-Dublin-Ballina.html

    More photos for the future WRC slide collection...

    Now you know what you are dealing with the next time they are screaming about "the people of the West". I have been following this muppet's posts for years and he has on several occasions implied that to question the WRC is a sign of mental illness. But using the death of a 45 year old driver on the roads to promote his hobby...well, that's "social justice" no doubt...

    I have no problem sleeping at nights.


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    #2350
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    how ridiculous...how many petrol stations could be served by the WRC.....?


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    #2351
    westtip
    Registered Users Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    Nostradamus wrote: »
    Trainspotters never change do they:

    from IRN from a Well Known WRC Activist...



    http://irnirishrailwaynews.yuku.com/sreply/32781/t/New-IWT-Freight-service-Dublin-Ballina.html

    More photos for the future WRC slide collection...

    Now you know what you are dealing with the next time they are screaming about "the people of the West". I have been following this muppet's posts for years and he has on several occasions implied that to question the WRC is a sign of mental illness. But using the death of a 45 year old driver on the roads to promote his hobby...well, that's "social justice" no doubt...

    I have no problem sleeping at nights.

    Nosty it is quite unbelievable what you have highlighted about that post on IRN - I hope the poster removes the post forthwith and apologises - to use a tragedy like this in such a manner is outrageous. Without knowing the detail of this tragic accident, iin reality it only seeks to highlight the need for the N17 to be upgraded to a safe DC as soon as possible and has absolutely nothing to do with the debate re any Railway. I find it quite sickening.


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    #2352
    westtip
    Registered Users Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    Nostradamus wrote: »



    Mainly because all these WRC fetish types have given CIE a great excuse not to develop bus transport in rural Connacht, where there is a demand and is badly needed and would make a fantastic difference.


    The Dublin-Sligo train connecting with the Metro at Drumcondra will be of more benefit/useful to the West of Ireland than a handful of grannines with free travel passes going to Knock by train to fill up their holy water bottles.

    Two great points Nosty - correct on both counts. WOT has distracted from the real transport issues - and the metro link at Drumcondra will provide a seamless rail link to the Airport - Now there is joined up thinking in transport planning.


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    #2353
    Nostradamus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 621 ✭✭✭Nostradamus


    westtip wrote: »
    Nosty it is quite unbelievable what you have highlighted about that post on IRN - I hope the poster removes the post forthwith and apologises - to use a tragedy like this in such a manner is outrageous.


    That board has been filled with this carry on for years.


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    #2354
    DWCommuter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,032 ✭✭✭DWCommuter


    Nostradamus wrote: »
    Trainspotters never change do they:

    from IRN from a Well Known WRC Activist...



    http://irnirishrailwaynews.yuku.com/sreply/32781/t/New-IWT-Freight-service-Dublin-Ballina.html

    More photos for the future WRC slide collection...

    Now you know what you are dealing with the next time they are screaming about "the people of the West". I have been following this muppet's posts for years and he has on several occasions implied that to question the WRC is a sign of mental illness. But using the death of a 45 year old driver on the roads to promote his hobby...well, that's "social justice" no doubt...

    I have no problem sleeping at nights.

    Jaysus! Is that looney tune still using road deaths to justify the WRC?! Thats been his usual rant for years now. He needs treatment and fast, but then a lot of them on that site need it badly.:D


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    #2355
    westtip
    Registered Users Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    derek yes its rather a sick argument - mind you one point I have always argued about the greenway is that a greenway will at least take those folks taking their evening powerwalk down the hard shoulder of the N17 at places like Claremorris (and believe me I cannot understand any lunatic who would want to use any national road to walk down for a leisurely evening stroll) could be moved to the Greenway - in fact I think the Greenway would save lives - adn the WRC with all its level crossings could actually be a killer itself.


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    #2356
    westtip
    Registered Users Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    As reported in the May 1st speech by Dempsey he has reiterated the truth about the WRC:

    This piece plucked from the Irish times last weeK: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0731/1224251762984.html
    Mr Dempsey said yesterday that the people of east Cork had campaigned for many years for the reopening of the 20km line between Cork city and Midleton. He said it was a great day for the area to see the rail line reopened to passenger traffic after an absence of over 20 years.

    However, he cautioned that the success of the new line, like the Navan Rail Link and the Western Rail Corridor, and its ability to earn Government subventions, would be judged on usage and he urged people in east Cork to use the service as frequently as they could
    Mr Dempsey’s comments were echoed by CIÉ and Iarnród Éireann chairman Dr John Lynch, who said that the new line would be of great benefit to the communities of east Cork.

    Looks the writing is well and truly on the wall lads!!! the game is up!! with the numbers most of us rational folk expect on the WRC; we can all wait for the comment from Mr. Dempsey "Well I did say use it or lose it!"


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    #2357
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    I personally don't think it will open at all now . The budget will kill it off .


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    #2358
    westtip
    Registered Users Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    The budget will kill it off .

    Don't think there is much doubt about that - the issue about posting Dempseys comments and reinterating what he said in May at the WOT conference is really just to show those folks who blindly believe what WOT say about this project that they are talking through their hats. WOT stated in May that they welcomed what Dempsey had to say - except they didn't actually listen to what he had to say!!. For those unfamiliar with the arguments I refer again to the post I made about this speech:

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=60456098&postcount=1935 - probably the most important post I have made on this thread in terms of where this project is likely to go, and worthy of further analysis:

    This is what the West on Track website says about the May 1st conference and speech by Dempsey (http://www.westontrack.com/news205.htm)
    The West on Track Community Campaign has welcomed the statement in Claremorris today by Mr. Noel Dempsey T.D., Minister for Transport, that following the completion of Phase One of the Western Rail Corridor from Ennis to Athenry this summer, the Government intends to continue the roll-out of the railway as outlined in Transport 21.

    This is what Dempsey actually said in May 2009 :
    In September 2006 we in Government made a decision in principle to support funding for the development of Phase 2 of the Corridor between Athenry and Tuam. This approval is subject to completion by Iarnród Éireann of a fuller appraisal of this section. Iarnród Éireann is planning to conduct further studies in 2009 to ascertain more reliable costings for Phases 2 and 3. I understand that they will also be looking at usage of Phase 1 after its opening, and at its effect on overall patronage of public transport in the area. The timescales for the delivery of Phases 2 and 3 are under review in the light of the capital allocation available to the Department of Transport.”

    Anyone involved in West on Track or who supports the campaign for WRC should read these two statements side by side (The May 1st statement/speech quote), one after the other, the second one first and the first one second and take a deep breath. Then please read what he had to say last week. Then ask yourself where is this all going?
    However, he cautioned that the success of the new line, like the Navan Rail Link and the Western Rail Corridor, and its ability to earn Government subventions, would be judged on usage
    - Noel Dempsey August 2009 on the opening of the Middleton line.


    In the May 1 conference report on the WOT website Dempseys is the one speech they don't provide a direct link to, because if they routed people to what he actually said in May (and now again in August), rather than putting their own twist on what he had to say then it would be "negative news" and WOT never allow negative news comments about WRC to be debated - nor do they engage with anyone "within the region" (one of their catch phrases) who dares to challenge their views. If you start linking up comments like Dempseys then you can clearly see the ground is being set - Both He and IE are going to call the shots on this one - if they decide the passenger numbers on WRC phase 1 are not good enough they will simply say - well we did say use it or else....and the campaign for this project will be exposed for what it is
    a complete and utter waste of time. The budget and current fiscal position will of course kill this project - but so will common sense.


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    #2359
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    All that aside the Ennis - Athenry project was supposed to carry trains by this summer as was Midleton . Midleton was long announced as opening summer 2009 and it did . Ennis Athnry was supposed to open late 2008 early 2009 and then summer 2009 .

    The summer is over . Nothing was really done about finding sufficient drivers in advance and I understand they are not there now and indeed that they were not there a year ago either . Recruitment has long been embargoed .

    Midleton opened on schedule , Ennis Athenry is lying there with no opening date .

    It only requires the final nail in the coffin and Dempsey would rather Lenihan did that for him.


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    #2360
    westtip
    Registered Users Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    It only requires the final nail in the coffin and Dempsey would rather Lenihan did that for him.

    Yes exactly. This parrot is dead.


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    #2361
    Nostradamus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 621 ✭✭✭Nostradamus


    The Ennis-Athenry section is not now going to be opened as planned. Little birdy told me today.

    A limited Summer service in 2010. No other plans. The 8 commuter trains a day packed with business excutives on their way to Galway and Limerick is dead in the water.


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    #2362
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Now now Nostradamus , I told you that a full year ago in this thread :p !!!!!


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    #2363
    Nostradamus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 621 ✭✭✭Nostradamus


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    Now now Nostradamus , I told you that a full year ago in this thread :p !!!!!

    I asked about the plan to put Limerick-Dublin services over the line. This was something whipped up by councillors in the MidWest to make it look like the line was busy. It has been rejected. Apparently they are expecting whole thing to be a disaster.

    We must not get too carried away with the "told you so" stuff. For I have long suspected that the WRC was a cloak and dagger tactic to prove that investing in rail does not work.


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    #2364
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Nostradamus wrote: »
    For I have long suspected that the WRC was a cloak and dagger tactic to prove that investing in rail does not work.

    But you suspected they would actually open it to prove that where I suspected they never intended to open it at all :D


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    #2365
    Hungerford
    Registered Users Posts: 912 ✭✭✭Hungerford


    Nostradamus wrote: »
    The Ennis-Athenry section is not now going to be opened as planned. Little birdy told me today.

    I actually think it will be opened but not until early next year. The politicial consequences of dropping the line or even providing a mere summer service would be too great for FF given its shaky position at the moment.


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    #2366
    westtip
    Registered Users Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    Hungerford wrote: »
    I actually think it will be opened but not until early next year. The politicial consequences of dropping the line or even providing a mere summer service would be too great for FF given its shaky position at the moment.

    Talking about dead parrots. Anyway no doubt West On Track will put some positive spin on whatever is to come out, can't think even they will get away with this one though!


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    #2367
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    westtip wrote: »
    Anyway no doubt West On Track will put some positive spin on whatever is to come out, can't think even they will get away with this one though!

    Even Frank Fahey is speechless ( since around late 2008 when he first found out) , he said thus in June 2008

    http://www.galwaynews.ie/4011-west-rail-corridor-hits-buffers
    Speaking exclusively to The Connacht Tribune, Deputy Fahey said the government could now only guarantee the completion of the first phase of the project linking Ennis with Athenry. Work has been ongoing on that section of the Western Rail Corridor (WRC) since last November and is currently on track to finish ahead of schedule, with an official opening next April.

    And the work did finish in April 2009 bar a hiccup in Gort ....still no services . No apologies from Frank Fahey either .


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    #2368
    westtip
    Registered Users Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    Tell you what SpongeBob that pic from Galway news.ie certainly shows the potential for a greenway to run alongside the route; so we may get something useful from the whole exercise one day. http://www.galwaynews.ie/4011-west-r...r-hits-buffers


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    #2369
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    westtip wrote: »
    Tell you what SpongeBob that pic from Galway news.ie certainly shows the potential for a greenway to run alongside the route; so we may get something useful from the whole exercise one day. http://www.galwaynews.ie/4011-west-r...r-hits-buffers

    It is a rather wide permanent way between Athenry and Gort but narrower thereafter .

    The West on Track gang would have a conniption were you to propose a greenway ALONG a railway track just like they had one when the proposal for a greenway INSTEAD of a railway was punted between Cooloney and Claremorris .

    If you don't mind I'll just sit on the fence me :D


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    #2370
    westtip
    Registered Users Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    The West on Track gang would have a conniption were you to propose a greenway ALONG a railway track just like they had one when the proposal for a greenway INSTEAD of a railway was punted between Cooloney and Claremorris .

    :D

    Alongside the railway would still be a good idea and might (only a small might) actually help numbers of people using the track - in particular leisure/tourist cyclists - cycle walk one way and train back. I sent a print out of the .pdf file from Sustrans I posted sometime ago which showed the adjacent greenways to active raillines in the UK to Eamon O'Cuiv and Dempsey - they both came back with very positive views, in particular E O'C who I think could see the potential. If the route is to go ahead any further - and I doubt it now - then the parallel greenway should be supported by WOT as it will help their cause - for usage of the dam service. On the other hand they would never accept just a greenway - because that would be the end of the project.


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    #2371
    Nostradamus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 621 ✭✭✭Nostradamus


    Hungerford wrote: »
    I actually think it will be opened but not until early next year. The politicial consequences of dropping the line or even providing a mere summer service would be too great for FF given its shaky position at the moment.

    Almost nobody in the West of Ireland gives a damn about this railway. It never was even a minor poltical issue, let alone a major one. What is was was a massive propaganda illusion. Not the same thing. I live in the West of Ireland, I have yet to meet or talk to anyone who expressed more than "it would be handy, but'll never happen". Not the same thing as the bug-eyed political lynch-mobs of WoT yore breaking down the polling station on election morning in revenge for not being able to take a train north of Ennis.

    Anyone who thinks the WRC is major poltical issue, either does not live in the West, or they are deluded.


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