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Western Rail Corridor
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But Corktine what about the infamous "Corridor" argument along the west coast when in effect trains running along the "corridor" will be from Claremorris to Tuam Athenry - into Galway - out of Galway - back to Athenry and then down to Ennis/Limerick. Its not a corridor but a T junction, and how long will all this take. Or will be there be through trains from err Claremorris to Limerick - not going in on the Galway spur (now can you imagine the demand for this service!!), with the need to change at Athenry for Galway? Or will we have Northern Corridor trains running backwards and forwards from Claremorris to Galway and Southern Corridor trains running from Limerick to Galway. The mind really does boggle the more you think about this hair brained plan, actually I think dear old IE have a logistics nightmare to contend with on this one!
For the first section (Coming soon....) we don't know what journey times from Ennis to Galway will be yet (no timetalbes published) with the need for drivers to change ends at Athenry (could someone confirm this will be needed at Athenry it is my understanding of it) causing at least another five to ten minutes waiting time at Athenry, my guess is they are going to be pretty uncompetitive with other forms of transport (bus or private car) in terms of journey times.
The overall Limerick-Galway journey time will I reckon be in the region of 1 hour 50 minutes as I've outlined several times here - it does not take rocket science to figure that much out. That includes the stop at Athenry where the driver switches ends.0 -
While I would agree there is merit in reopening the Athlone-Mullingar line, pathing additional services (especially freight) would be tricky given the single track section from Mullingar to Maynooth and the much higher frequency of commuter services from there inwards to Connolly.
I wouldn't disagree but freight can travel at night or early hours of dawn or other non peak times when traffic on this line is fairly light, re double tracking Mullingar - Maynooth yes I can see your point but double tracking Mullingar Maynooth would be money better spent on the rail infrastucure than a single line track from Claremorris to Athenry (and would actually be more of a service to the west)0 -
The overall Limerick-Galway journey time will I reckon be in the region of 1 hour 50 minutes as I've outlined several times here - it does not take rocket science to figure that much out. That includes the stop at Athenry where the driver switches ends.
Almost two hours for a journey of about 75 miles on the route the train will take; plus the travel time to get to the station; it says it all really - less than 40 mph, the road jouney BTW going direct and not via Athenry is 63 miles; The upgrading of the N18/N17 and the eventual Galway bypass will mean this project is doomed, even the potentially most busy section - Galway - Limerick appears to be dead on arrival, and as the minister of Transport said in his speech on May 1 to the WOT conference - opening the next section will be dependent on the usage of the first section, or words to that effect - check out previous posts on this speech. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=60456098&postcount=1935
For journey times and mileage of Limerick Galway http://www.aaireland.ie/routes_beta/Search.aspx0 -
I would make DT of Mullingar-Maynooth a prerequisite of reopening Moate/Athlone. You're not wrong about the likely inbound congestion on the Maynooth line but I don't think freights and specials will tip the balance there - Pace is more likely to do so.While I would agree there is merit in reopening the Athlone-Mullingar line, pathing additional services (especially freight) would be tricky given the single track section from Mullingar to Maynooth and the much higher frequency of commuter services from there inwards to Connolly.0 -
I would make DT of Mullingar-Maynooth a prerequisite of reopening Moate/Athlone.
I'm not convinced of the logic of reopening Athlone - Mullingar to 'reduce congestion'. All it would do is divert traffic from one potentially congested single track section [Athlone - Portarlington] onto a more congested single track section.
If concerns ever arise regarding the capacity of the Athlone - Portarlington stretch, they should double that, rather than reopen Athlone - Mullingar.0 -
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There are different advantages and disadvantages to each option.Hungerford wrote: »If concerns ever arise regarding the capacity of the Athlone - Portarlington stretch, they should double that, rather than reopen Athlone - Mullingar.
Installing dynamic loops would be one option on both lines.0 -
But Corktine what about the infamous "Corridor" argument along the west coast when in effect trains running along the "corridor" will be from Claremorris to Tuam Athenry - into Galway - out of Galway - back to Athenry and then down to Ennis/Limerick. Its not a corridor but a T junction, and how long will all this take. Or will be there be through trains from err Claremorris to Limerick - not going in on the Galway spur (now can you imagine the demand for this service!!), with the need to change at Athenry for Galway? Or will we have Northern Corridor trains running backwards and forwards from Claremorris to Galway and Southern Corridor trains running from Limerick to Galway. The mind really does boggle the more you think about this hair brained plan, actually I think dear old IE have a logistics nightmare to contend with on this one!
For the first section (Coming soon....) we don't know what journey times from Ennis to Galway will be yet (no timetalbes published) with the need for drivers to change ends at Athenry (could someone confirm this will be needed at Athenry it is my understanding of it) causing at least another five to ten minutes waiting time at Athenry, my guess is they are going to be pretty uncompetitive with other forms of transport (bus or private car) in terms of journey times.
I shouldnt bother your head about that little conundrum; given that the southern section will be a spectacular failure, the northern section will never be built;A huge diappointment to the legions of Claremorris people itching to travel to Limerick i'm sure.
Actually its fairly simple to solve, you simply have the trains formed of two units which split at asthenry and a second driver takes the second portion forward.0 -
hi everybody new to this
saw posts about wrc and value for money.
just take a look at new harry blaney bridge and compare.
wrc good value compared0 -
hi everybody new to this
saw posts about wrc and value for money.
just take a look at new harry blaney bridge and compare.
wrc good value compared
Yes but unfortuately gloves for albino himalayan ninja lemmings are cheaper per person so I propose we scrap the WRC and give everyone in the West a pair of those. What do you think? Actually lets compare.
Firstly, the WRC is infact a railway line, and not a bridge at all!!! (Not everyone picks that up straight away). Now a comparison, The Harry Blaney bridge also has a 3 letter abbreviation, isn't this fun. Time for the WRC to die its eagerly anticipated and cripplingly expensive death. Value for money...why not build a station outside my house. I'm miles from the nearest town and approximately 1 person(s) would use the service but at least its better value than the sydney opera house.0 -
Yes but unfortuately gloves for albino himalayan ninja lemmings are cheaper per person so I propose we scrap the WRC and give everyone in the West a pair of those. What do you think? Actually lets compare.
Firstly, the WRC is infact a railway line, and not a bridge at all!!! (Not everyone picks that up straight away). Now a comparison, The Harry Blaney bridge also has a 3 letter abbreviation, isn't this fun. Time for the WRC to die its eagerly anticipated and cripplingly expensive death. Value for money...why not build a station outside my house. I'm miles from the nearest town and approximately 1 person(s) would use the service but at least its better value than the sydney opera house.
What is wrong with all you people and your negative comments about the WRC? The half of you must think you're writing for stand up comedy. Have any of you ever been to the west of Ireland never mind lived there.
This whole discussion is turning into parish politics reminiscent of that awful ****e like your a star or the All Ireland Championship. Would you ever get a grip and consider the positive aspects of it0 -
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hi everybody new to this
saw posts about wrc and value for money.
just take a look at new harry blaney bridge and compare.
wrc good value compared
Ahem - yes you are new to this - so welcome on board the Western Rail Corridor - a trainline going nowhere soon. Value for Money is an interesting concept - is it VFM to re-open a railway line that will not be used by 99.5% of the population of the west. No. To save repetition please trawl this thread and read some of the arguments, then make your mind up - On the political side and the political will to complete this project then please take a look at what the Minister of Transport had to say in a speech on May 1st to the West on Track conference:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=60456098&postcount=19350 -
What is wrong with all you people and your negative comments about the WRC? The half of you must think you're writing for stand up comedy. Have any of you ever been to the west of Ireland never mind lived there.
This whole discussion is turning into parish politics reminiscent of that awful ****e like your a star or the All Ireland Championship. Would you ever get a grip and consider the positive aspects of it
Oh please spare me the tears. All the arguments against WRC are perfectly rationale - many have been written by people living in the west - including myself. The only stand up comedy about the WRC is West on Track, who seem to believe that the WRC will save the West from economic ruin; wrong it will not change life one iota in the west, which in fact is a dam fine place to live. Your reference to parish pump politics is quite right - it is the parish pump politics of west on track that have driven this project - I suggest a few minutes spent on the west on track web site trawling their press releases and news items to see the parish pump mindset they have. As said all the arguments against the WRC have been rational and well argued, the alternatives for public transport - such as subventing the bus service to a greater degree (which would cost a lot less than the WRC and serve more people in the west) have also been well argued.
The Western Rail Corridor s going to do the west a disservice - when it is seen as the greatest white elephant ever, it will be underutilised and will be a drain on resources (which we need to spend wisely in these hairshirt days) that could be far better spent on the rail network where it is needed or indeed on alternative projects which will help the economy of the west. Now I am sure I could actually think up some positive thoughts about it - but in reality they would all come down to this is a nice to have thing, and I can find many counter arguments against it.
You have tried to dismiss the rational arguments against with an emotional sideswipe, and failed. Instead could you please put up some good rational well argued and reasoned debate about why the WRC should happen, you refer to the positive aspects of it - well go on then tell us what they are. This would be more constructive and many of us would be happy to engage. But please spare us the west gets nothing arguments, or value for money, etc - give us hard facts which can justify this project
Otherwise please put your toys back in the pram.0 -
There's no one throwing teddy from the cot. I am familiar with the aforementioned websites you listed, west on track etc. and I have looked back through this thread. I have to ask, are you opposed to Rail as a means of transport in general or are you just opposed to this particular stretch of line reopening? I think in order to defend the reopening of the line you have to take a strong look why a person would choose rail over road
- Rail is a much more comfortable means of transport than Bus
- It's a more reliable service in terms of time and traffic management
- You can take your bicycle on the train which you cant on a bus
- This line would provide a commuter link to towns outside Bus Eireanns routes. There is no bus service from Tubbercurry to Kiltimagh, Swineford. Alot of Bus Eireanns routes between these towns are limited to one or 2 services a week.
- This route provides a rail link between 4 major cities in Ireland. Sligo, Galway, Limerick and Cork.
- Added infrastructure can only bring benefits to the region by connecting these provincial towns with added Tourism.
- It will provide a rail link connecting Knock Airport; handy for people jetting away on Holidays. I dont see any Bus Erieann Coaches climbing their way into Knock Airport
- It would provide freight transport taking traffic off the roads.
- It can be a more enviromentally friendly economic means of transport and could be electrified.
What would you rather spend the money on? What investment do YOU think should be put in the West?
I'm working in Dublin, I grew up outside Tubbercurry along the disused railway line. I still have a house there but had to move for work. I'm old enough to remember trains passing on this line. They were freight only.
There is alot of emotional sentiment attached to this argument which I've tried to refrain from. Alot of people are angered over money which was promised to redress the imbalance of investment in the BMW region has been spent elsewhere. I see the reopening of this railway line as a positive step towards the development of the Connaught region.
Granted there are problems with the layout of the line which can be improved and built on once it's up and running. Alot of people thought Luas was a waste of money.0 -
Have any of you ever been to the west of Ireland never mind lived there.
It's at the end of my backyard. Is that close eough for you.? I moved to the West because the quality of life is far superior than the East Coast. What's the problem? All my neighbours have an extremely high standard of living and all the trinkets and mod-cons of modern life. Will spending a billion Euros to get a priest from Mayo through the Pearly Gates on a red carpet improve this? Where is this suffering and misery the WRC fanatics carry on about?
And yes I still think it's bull**** even though they want to build a train station within walking distance of my house and I like both trains and public transport.
Why? Because we have cancer services being taken out of Sligo General (my wife, and my mate up the road are both cancer suvivors - lives saved by Sligo General so I think that's a bad idea closing that and opening a railway no one up here wants) and nobody currently uses the present bus on the same route other than a few grannies, and everyone else lives in one-off houses in the middle of nowhere and they wouldn't use it anyways.
I also found "most" (some lovely one too) trainspotters to be vile, obnoxious, sociopaths who think nothing of using people killed by lorries in order to promote their hobby. I do not feel for them and their needs. Especially the opertunistic C**Ts who pay taxes on the UK "Mainland" and expect Paddy to buy them a holiday thrill. (this is not aimed at the socially balance trainspotters who are otherwise decent folk)
Next question?0 -
Depends on the railcar/track and bus/road being compared! The M18 will be a lot straighter and less bumpy than the railway IMO.[*]Rail is a much more comfortable means of transport than Bus
What? The train will take 1h50 Galway-Limerick, the bus will hammer that once the M18 is open in full. This is the 'high quality' bit of the WRC remember. Timings will be worse further north (if it ever goes ahead-unlikely).[*]It's a more reliable service in terms of time and traffic management
Not on most railcar services and not even on all 'intercity' services either[*]You can take your bicycle on the train which you cant on a bus
Much easier and cheaper to just expand the bus network then, especially to serve such MINISCULE places as Kiltimagh etc.[*]This line would provide a commuter link to towns outside Bus Eireanns routes. There is no bus service from Tubbercurry to Kiltimagh, Swineford. Alot of Bus Eireanns routes between these towns are limited to one or 2 services a week.
Come off it-Sligo is major with 20,000 people now? Tallaght should have 5 intercity railways then![*]This route provides a rail link between 4 major cities in Ireland. Sligo, Galway, Limerick and Cork.
Tourists would prefer a cycleway to be made out of the WRC.[*]Added infrastructure can only bring benefits to the region by connecting these provincial towns with added Tourism.
Knock airport is another example of the craziness of what passes for planning down there. Should never have been allowed.[*]It will provide a rail link connecting Knock Airport; handy for people jetting away on Holidays. I dont see any Bus Erieann Coaches climbing their way into Knock Airport
Freight trains can already access Sligo/Mayo/Galway/Limerick. I don't see massive quantities of freight on the existing lines. Why would the WRC be any different?[*]It would provide freight transport taking traffic off the roads.
It CAN be more environmentally friendly IF the passenger numbers justify it. They won't.[*]It can be a more enviromentally friendly economic means of transport and could be electrified.
M18/M17/N17 improvement to motorway/dual carriageway all the way to Sligo.What would you rather spend the money on? What investment do YOU think should be put in the West?
Careful now, or we'll have to throw those CSO figures at you which show that Connaught does pretty well out of the rest of the country when it comes to government spending. Dublin and most of Leinster + Cork subsidise ALL of Connaught. I'm not arguing against it per se, but please show a little appreciation/gratitude/recognition or SOMETHING and absolutely do NOT insinuate that money is 'robbed from the whesht' and spent in the east or any such nonsense.There is alot of emotional sentiment attached to this argument which I've tried to refrain from. Alot of people are angered over money which was promised to redress the imbalance of investment in the BMW region has been spent elsewhere. I see the reopening of this railway line as a positive step towards the development of the Connaught region.
Before or after it opened?Granted there are problems with the layout of the line which can be improved and built on once it's up and running. Alot of people thought Luas was a waste of money.0 -
Regarding bikes on the train they now provide a list of services that can accomadate bikes
http://www.irishrail.ie/your_journey/Bikes%20on%20Services%202009_19012009.pdf
I'm almost certain that most the 2700/2750 railcars can take bikes also (none of these services listed)0 -
Carawaystick wrote: »I don't see why taxes should fund lightly used railway lines, offering poor service, while also funding better service, better frequency, shorter journey time bus services running mainly in parallel with them.
I also don't agree with taxes being used to prop up airlines flying routes also served by tax subsidised rail or bus links - these should be closed down too.
In particular I don't see why taxes should be used to build the wrc, when the only part of it open at present was closed for weeks after a bit of rain flooded it. surely any sane organisation would fix the already running section of line first?
I wouldn't close any rail line that has full services running on it at least once a week.
Lastly, there is no santa claus and there should be no tax funded toy trains. At least a good road allows citizens use it suits them, not when it suits the staff of Irish rail or Veola. It also allows private sector transport companies run services according to demand from the public.
The problem with your statement is that alot of these new roads are being heavily tolled. A return trip from Sligo to Ikea will cost almost 10 euro in tolls. The new M3 is almost finished with plans afoot to have a large park and ride facility just INSIDE the toll plaza on the newly reopened DISUSED Navan railway. Now theres something to bitch about0 -
There's no one throwing teddy from the cot. I am familiar with the aforementioned websites you listed, west on track etc. and I have looked back through this thread. I have to ask, are you opposed to Rail as a means of transport in general or are you just opposed to this particular stretch of line reopening? I think in order to defend the reopening of the line you have to take a strong look why a person would choose rail over road
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Wonderful your reply has fulfilled all my expectations. I am not anti rail; I just believe rail as a form of passenger transport is best used where you have the critical mass of people to use it - unfortunately the route of the western rail corridor does not have this critical mass. I suggest you read Eamon O'Cuivs speech to WOT conference on May 1 in relation to this matter.Rail is a much more comfortable means of transport than Bus.
Buses are now quite comfortable and your point is hardly a valid one for a major infrastructural project and subventing a loss making rail service. I can just see it now the Minister of Transport announcing in the current climate we are going to extend the WRC from Claremorris to Collooney because trains are more comfortable than buses!!!!It's a more reliable service in terms of time and traffic management].
Says who? have you never known a train to be late? Bus corridors in urban areas have improved bus timetabling no end - as it means long distance buses do not get caugth in logjams. Maybe you have some stats (ie facts) on the performance of buses v timetable and trains v timetable.You can take your bicycle on the train which you cant on a bus].
Sadly no longer true in IrelandThis line would provide a commuter link to towns outside Bus Eireanns routes. There is no bus service from Tubbercurry to Kiltimagh, Swineford. Alot of Bus Eireanns routes between these towns are limited to one or 2 services a week.].
Stop kidding yourself about this so called commuter traffic. The critical mass of people for a commuter line simply does not exist and commuting work patterns in the towns you quoted are not based on thousands of people travelling from these towns to the throbbing nearby metropolis' of Sligo Castlebar, Ballina or Galway - so please take your head out of the sand. In actual fact many of the new jobs in the west have not been created in the town centres but on out of town retail parks, business parks and technology parks; this is likely to be a continuing trend. The truth is the 19th centruy railway structure does not meet 21st century employment needs. Look at Sligo for example how many jobs are near the railway station? the big employers in Sligo are the hospital and IT in the public sector and Abbots in the private sector. A lot of retail is moving out of town and the big hotels are some considerable distance from the railway station - people working in these institutions are not going to commute in by train.
I have just taken a look at the buseirean timetable and your claim of 1 or 2 services a week for these towns must be based on the 1969 timetable. Your one or two buses a week is a myth.This route provides a rail link between 4 major cities in Ireland. Sligo, Galway, Limerick and Cork.].
granted however please look at the stats for the existing example we have for rail passenger numbers between Limerick and Waterford - pitiful. and indeed it seems the numbers on the Limerick - Ennis line are not that impressive. We call these locations cities but they are not that big as centres of population to sustain interconnectivity of regular train service.Added infrastructure can only bring benefits to the region by connecting these provincial towns with added Tourism.].
Tourist who come to the west of ireland tend to rent cars or bring their own cars with them. Like it or not this is what they do - My argument for a greenway along the WRC would add more tourist euros to the area than any railway - please go and do some research on walking and cycling tourism economics. - in fact thats the homework I am setting youIt will provide a rail link connecting Knock Airport; handy for people jetting away on Holidays. I dont see any Bus Erieann Coaches climbing their way into Knock Airport].
Knock airport has just expanded its car park - guess why - because thats how people like to go to knock. There is a bus shuttle service from knock airport to Charlestown - Now I do happen to agree with you that Bus Eirrean coaches should actually include the airport as a stoppover for all routes going down the N17 and indeed for buses travelling east west through Charlestown this would make good sense to actually maybe have a bus station at Knock airport and integrate the airport with regional bus services.It would provide freight transport taking traffic off the roads.].
The one freight rail head in Ballina is working fine - and provides the service needed for the west on the existing infrastuctureIt can be a more enviromentally friendly economic means of transport and could be electrified.].
Electrifying this line. I think Galway dublin, Cork Dublin, Belfast Dublin, Rosslare Dublin may just be an incey incey bit more important for this treatment - but as I say at least you have given me a laugh on this one.What would you rather spend the money on? What investment do YOU think should be put in the West?
One word: Roads.I'm working in Dublin, I grew up outside Tubbercurry along the disused railway line. I still have a house there but had to move for work. I'm old enough to remember trains passing on this line. They were freight only.
People have to learn to be mobile. Just because you are born and reared in an area it does not mean you have god given right to a job in that area. Life changes, get used to it.There is alot of emotional sentiment attached to this argument which I've tried to refrain from. Alot of people are angered over money which was promised to redress the imbalance of investment in the BMW region has been spent elsewhere. I see the reopening of this railway line as a positive step towards the development of the Connaught region.
Anger gets none of us anywhere. Yes the BMW region has perhaps not had its fair share of the investment being put in the country - but the issue about the WRC is that it is not a priority for the region in terms of transport - the N17 and N18 is.Granted there are problems with the layout of the line which can be improved and built on once it's up and running. Alot of people thought Luas was a waste of money.
I have heard it all now - not only do you want this 19th rail line re-opened you want more money poured into it after it has been re-opened. If its not good enough to re-open on its current alignment the project should be dropped. The Luas runs through suburban areas in which there are more people living in one street than there are in whole towns which the WRC will connect, criticism of Luas was ill founded but has no connection whatsoever to the potential of WRC.
Whilst I do appreciate you coming back with your points - I am sorry they really don't stand up to scrutiny.0 -
The problem with your statement is that alot of these new roads are being heavily tolled. A return trip from Sligo to Ikea will cost almost 10 euro in tolls. The new M3 is almost finished with plans afoot to have a large park and ride facility just INSIDE the toll plaza on the newly reopened DISUSED Navan railway. Now theres something to bitch about
Going to IKEA on the train now there is an interesting thought! Anyway just go to Belfast and pay less VAT.0 -
Nostradamus, I take from your quote that you think the money for reopening the railway would be better spent keeping the Cancer treatment facilities in Sligo General. I dont think its a question of funding. It is criminal what they have done and it is nothing more than a rationalisation of the health system. My own Mother is having to travel for 6 weeks of cancer treatment daily by busfrom Sligo to Galway as a result of this Gov'ts underinvestment and cutting of Services in Sligo. As a result there is no accomodation at present in the Lodge at UCHG.Nostradamus wrote: »It's at the end of my backyard. Is that close eough for you.? I moved to the West because the quality of life is far superior than the East Coast. What's the problem? All my neighbours have an extremely high standard of living and all the trinkets and mod-cons of modern life. Will spending a billion Euros to get a priest from Mayo through the Pearly Gates on a red carpet improve this? Where is this suffering and misery the WRC fanatics carry on about?
And yes I still think it's bull**** even though they want to build a train station within walking distance of my house and I like both trains and public transport.
Why? Because we have cancer services being taken out of Sligo General (my wife, and my mate up the road are both cancer suvivors - lives saved by Sligo General so I think that's a bad idea closing that and opening a railway no one up here wants) and nobody currently uses the present bus on the same route other than a few grannies, and everyone else lives in one-off houses in the middle of nowhere and they wouldn't use it anyways.
I also found "most" (some lovely one too) trainspotters to be vile, obnoxious, sociopaths who think nothing of using people killed by lorries in order to promote their hobby. I do not feel for them and their needs. Especially the opertunistic C**Ts who pay taxes on the UK "Mainland" and expect Paddy to buy them a holiday thrill. (this is not aimed at the socially balance trainspotters who are otherwise decent folk)
Next question?
Mary Harney will not back down on her plan for ctrs of excellence.
The point I was trying to make was that there needs to be improved links between both cities which provides a strong argument for the reopening of the line and the upgrading of the road.
My home place is just north of T'curry on particular lethal bendof the N17. I was onto the NRA several times and involved with the planning of the new road. There were numerous test and digs done on my land as the road was to pass marginally through it. On my last conversation with the NRA 3 years ago I was told by one of the engineers that the funding has been cut for any further development of the road. Had the road been directly linked to Dublin there would have been no problem with funding. I was told that were there any further developments I would be informed.
Given both these cutbacks people in the west should be campaining to retain any plans for investment in the area. If the message is that we dont want a railway that money for the WRC will go on the Dublin metro0 -
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The point I was trying to make was that there needs to be improved links between both cities which provides a strong argument for the reopening of the line and the upgrading of the road.
Sorry to hear about your mother. I hope it works out for her. There is no sound argument not even environmetal to reoping the northern WRC. None. You have been lied to. Sligo CITY is a small town. It already has a very good rail service all things considering. Do you see packed trains leaving Clonmel going to Limerick. Clonmel is bigger than Sligo. What makes you think they will be packing trains in Sligo to go to Galway. Two smaller towns/cities than Clonmel/Limerick? Is there something in the water in the West of Ireland which makes people more loyal to regional rail than in Tipp?Given both these cutbacks people in the west should be campaining to retain any plans for investment in the area. If the message is that we dont want a railway that money for the WRC will go on the Dublin metro
That's great. The Dublin Metro is needed badly. It and the DART Underground are essentially 30 years overdue.
Dublin has a collasal shortage of rail services, the West already has too much. Put the trains were they will be used. The West already has too many rail services. Dublin and the East Coast are starved of them. The only public transport lack in the West of Ireland is regional connecting bus services which CIE have no intention of providing. Mainly because all these WRC fetish types have given CIE a great excuse not to develop bus transport in rural Connacht, where there is a demand and is badly needed and would make a fantastic difference.
Try to be considerate towards your fellow Irish citizens. Most people in Dublin are disgusted that cancer services in Sligo are being downgraded. Show some empathy back the other way for their massive lack of rail in the GDR.
You are a citizen of Ireland and not Sligo. Deal with it.
The Dublin-Sligo train connecting with the Metro at Drumcondra will be of more benefit/useful to the West of Ireland than a handful of grannines with free travel passes going to Knock by train to fill up their holy water bottles.0 -
Given both these cutbacks people in the west should be campaining to retain any plans for investment in the area. If the message is that we dont want a railway that money for the WRC will go on the Dublin metro
Rikki2, I think this is the problem with the WRC campaign - the idea that any money spent in the west is good investment. I don't think any of us who are arguing against the WRC have said money should not be invested in the west - but we are arguing how to best spend the monies that are going to be invested out here. You have made some very valid points about a section of the N17 I also know quite well; but consider this if all the effort campaigning for WRC had been spent on pushing the N17/18 up the agenda perhaps the Atlantic Road Corridor may be more advanced than it is - and think about this - with the N17 fully upgraded between Sligo and Galway what would that do for travel times to the Cancer unit in Galway; reduce it considerably is the answer and a DC from Sligo to Galway would make the closure of the cancer unit in sligo slightly easier to bear - and it will mean faster buses - the WRC from Sligo to Galway would give you a very slow infrequent train. Please do think about it - the WRC is not going to be the saviour of the west of ireland - it will be a little used rail line draining subvented resources, which could be better spent elsewhere in the west on more meaningful services and infratructure spend. West on Track would have us believe otherwise but they are talking in a mythical past when railways did make a difference when they came to a town - you know the structure of housing patterns in the west - it is simply not suited to mass movement of people by train and we are not living in the 19th century; I have often heard WOT quoting Monsignor Horan of Knock airport fame - despite its knockers (sic) I am so glad we have that modern transport resource out here - it may well be in the wrong place but at least we have it! Monsignor Horan saw the future - Air transport - and with the arrival of the likes of Ryanair we have the world (or at least stanstead airport) on our doorstep. The WRC is an attempt to step backwards not forwards, we need the N17/18 up[grading - we need a decent cross border road from Sligo to either Newry or Dundalk (something BTW which FF promised in their programme for Government) The N4 is pretty good but still some bits to finish. Give Sligo and your hometown Tubercurry these good quality links and you won't even think abou the WRC.
BTW also sorry to hear about your mum and hope she makes a full recovery.0 -
My home place is just north of T'curry on particular lethal bendof the N17. I was onto the NRA several times and involved with the planning of the new road. There were numerous test and digs done on my land as the road was to pass marginally through it. On my last conversation with the NRA 3 years ago I was told by one of the engineers that the funding has been cut for any further development of the road. Had the road been directly linked to Dublin there would have been no problem with funding. I was told that were there any further developments I would be informed.
Given both these cutbacks people in the west should be campaining to retain any plans for investment in the area. If the message is that we dont want a railway that money for the WRC will go on the Dublin metro
I agree with you that the N17 is terrible from Curry to Collooney. However, you then go on to state that the funding was not available for it. Why was that? Because that money is being used to build the link from Athenry to Ennis, which nobody will use (at least, not in the numbers that won't require massive subsidies to keep it open).
In reference to your earlier comments - there will be no "rail link to Knock Airport" - there's a terrible bus link at the moment. (And yes, I would advocate that every Bus Eireann service between Galway and Sligo should stop at Knock Airport. Knock Airport aren't campaigning too much for that though, because they're making too much money from the car parks).
I too live in the West, and I too disagree with the WRC. As others have said I would welcome investment in the West also - but I do not want that investment to be wasted. Which it most certainly is in the case of WRC.
So what should any available money be spent on instead? Roads and buses. Yes, roads will encourage more people to use cars, but clogged-up cities and towns with bus lanes will take care of that. As well as which, while the main employment centres (industrial parks, and so on) in the West are accessible by bus, they most certainly are not accessible by train - and never will be. (Of course, you could ask why industrial areas weren't zoned near train lines, but that, of course, would assume proper planning, and not decades of brown-envelopism).
Proper Bus Park & Rides outside of the main urban centres (and Galway in particular) most certainly need to be built. (There's a "default" example of that in Tuam, where you can park you car in the Cathedral for 2 EUR all day and get Burke's Bus into Galway - and using the newly-provided Bus Lanes in Claregalway to get around that notorious bottleneck).0 -
Given both these cutbacks people in the west should be campaining to retain any plans for investment in the area. If the message is that we dont want a railway that money for the WRC will go on the Dublin metro
The basic fallacy behind the whole WRC campaign is the idea that all investment is good investment. It's not - in fact, even Phase 1 of the project may ultimately prove to be of marginal benefit in the long-run.
There are other more vital transport projects out there that will make a real difference to people's lives which aren't being advanced at the speed they should be because of schemes like the WRC.
Most of them are in the East but that's natural - most of the population are there. I am thinking of projects such as the interconnector, the Navan railway line and Metro North.
Even when they are completed, there are other projects far more worthy of public support than the WRC Phases 2 and 3, such as the links with the North cut in the 1950s and 1960s by the UTA for political reasons.0 -
By the way I dont consider this service linking Galway to Cork in any way shape or form.
Galway - Limerick, transfer to Limerick - Limerick Junction, transfer to Limerick Junction - Cork is absolutely not a service that deserves any merit.0 -
any pretentions to being a true Inter City service are a fallacy aren't they.This line , indeed all the services you mention, are purely of a local nature.0
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While I am a supporter of the WRC, in as much as I wanted it retained and maintained, the money squandered on it would have been much better spent elsewhere. My pet, and relatively inexpensive project, the construction of a Dublin facing avoiding curve at Ballybrophy would have been a much more worthwhile project . As well as taking some traffic off the Dublin/Cork line it would have boosted the towns of Roscrea (pop. 5,896) and Nenagh (pop. 7,415) and regenerated this important secondary route; instead it faces a very uncertain future post Todd Andrews McCarthy. The WRC was chosen for Transport 21 funding in much the same way as McCarthy chose the lines proposed for closure. A phonecall to the ususal suspects in the Dept.of Transport and a few pints in Buswells.0
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Nostradamus wrote: »Sorry to hear about your mother. I hope it works out for her. There is no sound argument not even environmetal to reoping the northern WRC. None. You have been lied to. Sligo CITY is a small town. It already has a very good rail service all things considering. Do you see packed trains leaving Clonmel going to Limerick. Clonmel is bigger than Sligo. What makes you think they will be packing trains in Sligo to go to Galway. Two smaller towns/cities than Clonmel/Limerick? Is there something in the water in the West of Ireland which makes people more loyal to regional rail than in Tipp?
That's great. The Dublin Metro is needed badly. It and the DART Underground are essentially 30 years overdue.
Dublin has a collasal shortage of rail services, the West already has too much. Put the trains were they will be used. The West already has too many rail services. Dublin and the East Coast are starved of them. The only public transport lack in the West of Ireland is regional connecting bus services which CIE have no intention of providing. Mainly because all these WRC fetish types have given CIE a great excuse not to develop bus transport in rural Connacht, where there is a demand and is badly needed and would make a fantastic difference.
Try to be considerate towards your fellow Irish citizens. Most people in Dublin are disgusted that cancer services in Sligo are being downgraded. Show some empathy back the other way for their massive lack of rail in the GDR.
You are a citizen of Ireland and not Sligo. Deal with it.
The Dublin-Sligo train connecting with the Metro at Drumcondra will be of more benefit/useful to the West of Ireland than a handful of grannines with free travel passes going to Knock by train to fill up their holy water bottles.
The Dublin to Sligo is the third largest service provided by Irish rail after Dublin to Cork and Dublin Galway carrying 1.34 million passenger is 2008.
I agree with you that the Metro North will be a big help to the Sligo train but if you want to use an airport you can go the Knock and fly to Dublin in less time than it would take to get the train from the north west to Drumcondra. Currently if you want to travel from the north west to Drumcondra the 5:45 from Sligo stops there around 8:30 am for the other services you will have to dismount in Maynooth and wait on the railcar to bring you to Drumcondra. Enough of the Drumcondra thing. IMO the WRC should be built and not a Dualcarriage along the west coast. In the east of the country prior to Dualcarriage times there were rail services to all the current cities and large towns in the country. The Dublin to Sligo train was timetabled similar to the current Westport Ballina services and I can remember it being said that it was a loss making services even thought all the services were full once they arrived in Mullingar.Currently the Sligo liners enjoy eight intercity services a day five days a week and with seven on Saturdays and Sundays. My point is that the population of the west will rise as it did in the east and there will be need for rail line services. The one problem I see with the proposed railcars that are going to be used will not meet with customer satification and that the number of passenger that will travel from Limerick to Galway will undermine the services and will open it up to critism. I purpose that the Intercity trains currently in operation be used and that Cork be opened up to Intercity services to Galway and use the current railcars on the cork commuter services. I have one question though that I cannot find the answer to and maybe the subscribers of this thread could point me to. What do you class as a poor rail infrastructure. I assume that in the construction of phase one that alot of the windy section of the line have been eliminated and that a % of the level crossings have been removed, currently the journey time from Ennis to Limerick is forty minutes, this should improve the the extension to Athenry. In the future if the line is sucessfull the journey times will improve and IE will deliver a better service than it is currently operational. I have a thought about what is precieved to be a poor rail infrastructure that there would be a bend in the railway every one mile am I correct or wide of the mark please enlighten me0 -
I assume that in the construction of phase one that alot of the windy section of the line have been eliminated and that a % of the level crossings have been removed, currently the journey time from Ennis to Limerick is forty minutes, this should improve the the extension to Athenry. In the future if the line is sucessfull the journey times will improve and IE will deliver a better service than it is currently operational.
you assume wrong. I believe that all that has been done is to lay new track and ballast on the existing formation. How do you imagine the journey times will improve with opening through to Athenry?0 -
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hi still new to this,
just a thought even though money probably better spent on roads than wrc doesnt mean gov will give it if they dont give money for rail.
if you dont put up a case in this country no matter how bad you just wont get funding for anything in the west, fact of life .
as to those who say its not vfm " so what " its better than nothing
good value for money needs intelligent planning and government
where the hell will you ever get that in this banama republic0
This discussion has been closed.
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