Bray incident 'Not a knifecrime' because they came from good families

lostexpectation · 18-08-2009 07:23PM #1

thats what tom dunne said on newstalk this morning, is this guy permanently on prozac, he said Bray incident was 'Not a knifecrime' because they came from good families, in usual happy dappy voice with his 'im talking about inane drivel because thats what our marketeers tell me our listener want voice, and then he tries to tackle the bray 'tragedy'? Mr former poprock star and music dj, tackles a murder, two attempted murders and a suicide by stabbing and then goes back to talking about your favourite childhood sweet.

and it tragedy because? (well mainly cos the murderer killed himself) but because it was fight over love, over a girl.

ppl were ringing complaining about pat kenny too calling it a tragedy rather then murder

then he starts talking (puts on whistful tom dunne voice) about how its the oldest reason in the book, and if they were ever reason...., and goes on to describe the love life of these three,how they attended ncad etc and saying how out of character it was, what does he know? what does he think poorer people fight over ( or even what so called scumbags fight about ?)

he really did say he didn't think it was a knifecrime.... :eek:
____________________________________________________________--

MOD EDIT: Thread stays open. Simple as that.
If you want to discuss it, PM me.
Terry.

ScumLord · 18-08-2009 07:26PM

It's a knife crime in the sense a knife was involved but it's not really the same as criminals going out using knives to commit crime.

Red_Marauder · 18-08-2009 07:27PM

I must admit, to my own personal distaste, that when I heard about a stabbing incident in Bray I immediately thought "knackers at it again". Then when I read more about the story I thought it was tragic.

It was interesting to see a similiar story with the media. If the media are guilty of having double standards then so are we, the readers. I think it is, unfortunately, pretty representative of how people feel.

JONJO THE MISER · 18-08-2009 07:28PM

lostexpectation wrote: »

thats what tom dunne said on newstalk this morning, is this guy permanently on prozac, he said Bray incident was 'Not a knifecrime' because they came from good families, in usual happy dappy voice with his 'im talking about inane drivel because thats what our marketeers tell me our listener want voice, and then he tries to tackle the bray 'tragedy'? Mr former poprock star and music dj, tackles a murder, two attempted murders and a suicide by stabbing and then goes back to talking about your favourite childhood sweet.

and it tragedy because? (well mainly cos the murderer killed himself) but because it was fight over love, over a girl.

ppl were ringing complaining about pat kenny too calling it a tragedy rather then murder

then he starts talking (puts on whistful tom dunne voice) about how its the oldest reason in the book, and if they were ever reason...., and goes on to describe the love life of these three,how they attended ncad etc and saying how out of character it was, what doe he know? what does he think poorer people fight over ( or even what so called scumbags fight about ?)

he really did say he didn't think it was a knifecrime.... :eek:

Yeah i know its sickening isnt it, Just because there middle class, it was a Knife crime and that guy was a scumbag worse than any scumbag from a so called working class area.

Bob_Harris · 18-08-2009 07:31PM

Tragedy the killer committed suicide (if that is what happened) me balls.

TirNaNog. · 18-08-2009 07:32PM

Not the same as criminals?
That person was a criminal,Pure scum ,a wolf in sheeps clothing.

Agent Smith · 18-08-2009 07:33PM

Serriously, if you dont know the people involved, or the facts, Shut up

Poor Uncle Tom · 18-08-2009 07:35PM

Grab a knife and stab someone with it, it's a knife crime. It doesn't matter whether it slides through Ralph Lauren or Dunnes best to reach the heart, it's still a knife crime.

Dudess · 18-08-2009 07:37PM

How the guy who did it "isn't a scumbag" is beyond me...

I'm pretty shocked by the snobbery on AH (yes, really) - some posts on the thread about the babies born to different members of the same family are actually a bit depressing...

Class politics can be so nasty (I watched the film Lawn Dogs, about that very thing, last night - nearly had me in tears) - and I've made similar objections to reverse snobbery here, so no, I'm not "trying to be PC"...

AckwelFoley · 18-08-2009 07:37PM

Agent Smith wrote: »

Serriously, if you dont know the people involved, or the facts, Shut up

Excellent suggestion, however it has one gaping flaw.

This is AH.

No facts required apparently

Raze_them_all · 18-08-2009 07:41PM

ScumLord wrote: »

It's a knife crime in the sense a knife was involved but it's not really the same as criminals going out using knives to commit crime.

Pretty sure stabbing someone legally makes you a criminal.

Dudess · 18-08-2009 07:42PM

Oh right, so nobody can comment on a case unless they know the people personally?

And I've enough facts to go on - a lowlife stabbed two people repeatedly.

JONJO THE MISER · 18-08-2009 07:44PM

Dudess wrote: »

How the guy who did it "isn't a scumbag" is beyond me...

I'm pretty shocked by the snobbery on AH (yes, really) - some posts on the thread about the babies born to different members of the same family are actually a bit depressing...

Class politics can be so nasty (I watched the film Lawn Dogs, about that very thing, last night - nearly had me in tears) - and I've made similar objections to reverse snobbery here, so no, I'm not "trying to be PC"...

Aww you see After Hours is mostly made up of middle class posters and young professionals, i would say im one of the very few working class people on here.

Rabies · 18-08-2009 08:00PM

snyper wrote: »

Excellent suggestion, however it has one gaping flaw.

This is AH.

No facts required apparently

MOD COMMENT

Facts are required when backing up a story.

This is a serious topic, especially for those close to the family.

I'm reopening this thread.

Off topic trollish comments have been deleted.
Any more will follow with warning and/or bans.

As required here are some links to the facts from online media.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/romantic-rivalry-linked-to-bray-tragedy-422931.html

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/0817/breaking4.htm

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0817/bray.html

karlr42 · 18-08-2009 08:09PM

In fairness, the family of any party in a story discussed on AH could be a boards member, and just last week we had "Ger the benefit thief", the actual subject of a thread, post and engage. I didn't see a lot of sensitivity shown to him.
Fact of the matter is, if you're willing to post on boards, you run the risk of being offended or hurt. As is often said to people spamming their businesses, this is a discussion board, where opinions are voiced. No-one forces the family or those knowing them to read this thread.

AckwelFoley · 18-08-2009 08:10PM

Rabies wrote: »

MOD COMMENT

Facts are required when backing up a story.

This is a serious topic, especially for those close to the family.

I'm reopening this thread.

Off topic trollish comments have been deleted.
Any more will follow with warning and/or bans.

As required here are some links to the facts from online media.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/romantic-rivalry-linked-to-bray-tragedy-422931.html

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/0817/breaking4.htm

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0817/bray.html

I would suggest you are referring to specific events of a sensative nature such as this story . I read alot of unsubstantiated nonsence on AH.

**Puts on helmet and prepares for mod wrath**

Now as for the "hes a scumbag- burn him" Yes i clearly understand, however i am a little uncomfortable with labeling him like this for one reason. I knew a guy that a few years back butchered his wife and children. I know him casually through business and as good a judge of somone as i may be i never seen this comming other than the fact that she was the town bike - and didnt hide it from him. He was a very mannerly polite and soft spoken gentleman. No criminal record, no history of violence..

What he did was horriffic there is no questioning that. I think they were tha actions of a sick sick tormented mind.. a scum bag? Im not sure

MagicMarker · 18-08-2009 08:11PM

If you want a proper discussion then move the thread to another forum ffs.

This is AH, why so sensitive now? Why not when Katy French died, or Jade Goody?

AckwelFoley · 18-08-2009 08:12PM

MagicMarker wrote: »

If you want a proper discussion then move the thread to another forum ffs.

This is AH, why so sensitive now? Why not when Katy French died, or Jade Goody?

decorum.

The bar is pretty low here but it does exist.

The reason being Ireland is a small nation. This is a very current and sad event and some sence needs to be kept.
I once made a comment in a similar case a year or so ago, and i received a brief email from somone that was related to the persons involved. Their comments were polite, briefly reminding me that what i said was inaccurate.

It made me think.

Normally im incapible of thought

Terry · 18-08-2009 08:15PM

MagicMarker wrote: »

If you want a proper discussion then move the thread to another forum ffs.

This is AH, why so sensitive now? Why not when Katy French died, or Jade Goody?

Quiet you.

Mike... · 18-08-2009 08:16PM

strange how it exists on this thread yet not on the is Mayo a no go area thread?
I am noticing a strong east coast bias on boards lately.

Anyone who stabs and murders someone, and also injures others is a lowlife regardless of location, east or west...

MagicMarker · 18-08-2009 08:18PM

snyper wrote: »

decorum.

The bar is pretty low here but it does exist.

The reason being Ireland is a small nation. This is a very current and sad event and some sence needs to be kept.
I once made a comment in a similar case a year or so ago, and i received a brief email from somone that was related to the persons involved. Their comments were polite, briefly reminding me that what i said was inaccurate.

It made me think.

Normally im incapible of thought

None (that I remember) of the posts that have so far been deleted in this thread were in bad taste. They were just typical AH responses. If you don't want typical AH responses then surely the best thing to do is move the thread from AH? Common sense no?

Anyway, just my opinion.

Terry · 18-08-2009 08:19PM

Mike... wrote: »

strange how it exists on this thread yet not on the is Mayo a no go area thread?
I am noticing a strong east coast bias on boards lately.

Anyone who stabs and murders someone, and also injures others is a lowlife regardless of location, east or west...

The thread has been re-opened, so you stay quiet too.

Discuss the topic at hand.
Problems with moderation belong in the help desk.

ilkhanid · 18-08-2009 08:22PM

I thnk it's simpler than class. This appears to have been a crime of passion (or madness) and people historically tend to have a different attitude to these killings than ones perpetrated-especially premeditated ones-for profit or pleasure. And this is understandable, to a degree.

My name is URL · 18-08-2009 08:22PM

What does it matter if he was a scumbag or not?

He's dead but still has a family who deserve some respect after losing a son and a brother

It's just a pity that those posting to demand respect here will next week abandon all morals and rejoice the death of someone else

Dudess · 18-08-2009 08:25PM

snyper wrote: »

Now as for the "hes a scumbag- burn him" Yes i clearly understand, however i am a little uncomfortable with labeling him like this for one reason. I knew a guy that a few years back butchered his wife and children. I know him casually through business and as good a judge of somone as i may be i never seen this comming other than the fact that she was the town bike - and didnt hide it from him. He was a very mannerly polite and soft spoken gentleman. No criminal record, no history of violence..

What he did was horriffic there is no questioning that. I think they were tha actions of a sick sick tormented mind.. a scum bag? Im not sure

He was though for these actions alone. Remember that case involving the missing little girl whose father was discovered hiding her and he killed her and himself before the garda net closed in fully? I had some sympathy for him because of his grief as a father who rarely got to see his little girl, but what he did to her mother and all the other loved ones she left behind... was scumbaggy.

I know the perpetrator in this case was still somebody's son/brother/friend (and my heart goes out to them - they must be shattered) and possibly unwell, but he did a vicious, hateful thing.
And if we're going to call some lad from Finglas who did something similar a "scumbag" but not the lad in this story, then it really does betray class bias. We have no way of knowing that a lad in Finglas who does something similar isn't a seemingly decent guy who flips either - the place he comes from doesn't make it a guarantee he has always been an anti-social lout.

Rabies · 18-08-2009 08:28PM

This thread isn't the place to discuss the the actions taken me.
We can do that in a different thread.

A serious crime was commited. People will voice emotional responses, its natural.

As for the 'scumbag' comment.
This is where I'm in two minds and torn. And it my personal opinion here.

Is it directed because he wasn't from a working class back ground and they called scumbags, then its the same brush for everyone.

Murderers get called 'scumbags', 'monsters' and what ever else in all topics. It is because their actions step out of line with normal rational thinking and methods.

Did anyone object when Maddie's abductor or Fritzel was called names?

I edited the more off topic posts and cleaned up the thread.

Looking back, ya sure, the scumbag comment could have been edited. But frankly people can be such a fickle bunch here its not possible to keep everyone happy.

dr.bollocko · 18-08-2009 08:30PM

Overheal wrote: »

>_>

<_<

well then,

/gets coat

Me f**kin too.
Your round.

AckwelFoley · 18-08-2009 08:32PM

Dudess wrote: »

He was though for these actions alone. Remember that case involving the missing little girl whose father was discovered hiding her and he killed her and himself before the garda net closed in fully? I had some sympathy for him because of his grief as a father who rarely got to see his little girl, but what he did to her mother and all the other loved ones she left behind... was scumbaggy.

I know the perpetrator in this case was still somebody's son/brother/friend (and my heart goes out to them - they must be shattered) and possibly unwell, but he did a vicious, hateful thing.
And if we're going to call some lad from Finglas who did something similar a "scumbag" but not the lad in this story, then it really does betray class bias. We have no way of knowing that a lad in Finglas who does something similar isn't a seemingly decent guy who flips either - the place he comes from doesn't make it a guarantee he has always been an anti-social lout.

I understand what you are saying however..

How many of these "Finglas" Knife crimes take place on the side of the street as opposed to the home as in this case. Most knife crimes in this country i would suggest are done on the street by people that probably have several criminal convictions for one thing or another.

Raze_them_all · 18-08-2009 08:36PM

snyper wrote: »

I understand what you are saying however..

How many of these "Finglas" Knife crimes take place on the side of the street as opposed to the home as in this case. Most knife crimes in this country i would suggest are done on the street by people that probably have several criminal convictions for one thing or another.

Ah but if your man had not commited suicide he would surely of ended up with a criminal conviction, Would you then label him a scumbag?

Dudess · 18-08-2009 08:39PM

Here's an example of a stabbing in a not-considered-lovely area over family/relationship issues:
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/childcare-row-ended-in-fatal-stab-attack-on--father-trial-told-1552749.html

AckwelFoley · 18-08-2009 08:40PM

Rabies wrote: »

Did anyone object when Maddie's abductor or Fritzel was called names?

Fritzel raped his daughter over a period of 25 years. Thats not making a quick judgment on a single moment of maddness.

Maddie, well there are only 2 people that know where the child is, so its impossible to offend somone thats unknown.

My point, not known this chap, he has done an aweful thing and if he did it to someone i loved i would hate him, but he was obviously a sick young man that did something stupid in a single moment of overwhelming rage

Bray incident 'Not a knifecrime' because they came from good families

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