Bray incident 'Not a knifecrime' because they came from good families

supersaint3 · 18-08-2009 9:51pm

Agent Smith wrote: »

Serriously, if you dont know the people involved, or the facts, Shut up

If the first part of that were true none of us would be allowed to have an opinion about anything.

Unknown Soldier · 18-08-2009 9:51pm

<snip> I'll assume you didn't see your other post being edited. Not an assumption I'll be making again. - Hagar<snip>

My name is URL · 18-08-2009 9:55pm

nlgbbbblth wrote: »

Who are the guards more likely to tackle?

- A bunch of middle class students on a Mayday protest.

- A group of working class dudes openly dealing drugs on the Quays

A jealous and spurned guy with revenge on his mind is not going to be interested in stabbing someone other than his intended target.

A tooled-up nutcase who carries a knife every time he goes out sees every vulnerable person as a target. Rob 'em - knife 'em - f*ck 'em.

I know which one I'd rather face.

wow, that's just fcuking stupid.

nlgbbbblth · 18-08-2009 9:57pm

My name is URL wrote: »

wow, that's just fcuking stupid.

please give reasons for your answer

Mr Benevolent · 18-08-2009 9:59pm

nlgbbbblth wrote: »

please give reasons for your answer

Ok, now this is going around in circles.

drkpower · 18-08-2009 10:01pm

My name is URL wrote: »

wow, that's just fcuking stupid.

Ridiculous comment.

Nigbbbth made a lot of sense. Yours.......eh......didnt.....:mad:

nlgbbbblth · 18-08-2009 10:01pm

Confab wrote: »

Ok, now this is going around in circles.

I made a point. I gave examples to back it up.

Fair enough if someone disagrees but I'd like to know why.

LadyE · 18-08-2009 10:03pm

Confab wrote: »

I simply doubt he was mentally ill. I have a wealth of personal experience dealing with mentally ill people, and generally they don't do what he did. I do agree that the general attitude to mental illness in this country is prehistoric and utterly unhelpful.

Generally they dont? So sometimes they do?

Stark · 18-08-2009 10:04pm

The only way this debate could become even more intellectual is for someone to start using the rolly eyes smiley.

TirNaNog. · 18-08-2009 10:05pm

LadyE wrote: »

Generally they dont? So sometimes they do?

But would you be claiming the person was mentally ill if they were from a working class area is the question?

Mr Benevolent · 18-08-2009 10:07pm

LadyE wrote: »

Generally they dont? So sometimes they do?

Correct. 86.34% of them don't do it. The remaining 13.66% go on medically sanctioned killing sprees with a bread knife :rolleyes:

LadyE · 18-08-2009 10:07pm

Class has nothing to do with it.

Unknown Soldier · 18-08-2009 10:08pm

Unknown Soldier wrote: »

<snip> I'll assume you didn't see your other post being edited. Not an assumption I'll be making again. - Hagar<snip>

First post 21:41. Hagar edit 21:49

Second post 21:51. Hagar edit 21.54.

Please dont assume I didn't know you edited my first post. Please know I didn't?

When I made my next post the last one had no edits.

just to clear that up.

I now remember why I read and don't post.

Thanks

LadyE · 18-08-2009 10:08pm

Confab wrote: »

Correct. 86.34% of them don't do it. The remaining 13.66% go on medically sanctioned killing sprees with a bread knife :rolleyes:

That doesn't even dignify a repsonse. Your post is bull****.

Bob_Harris · 18-08-2009 10:10pm

Oh, my post totally disappeared. Did it even get posted at all?

Should I post it again?

My name is URL · 18-08-2009 10:10pm

nlgbbbblth wrote: »

I made a point. I gave examples to back it up.

Fair enough if someone disagrees but I'd like to know why.

You gave examples of something that doesn't matter in this case

A guy, regardless of class, decided for whatever reason to stick a knife into somebody and they died

At that point he became a murderer. That's all that matters really

Stark · 18-08-2009 10:12pm

LadyE wrote:

That doesn't even dignify a repsonse. Your post is bull****.

Confab in his infinite experience has never heard of sudden onset illness it would seem. I know people with relatives who were seemingly fine one day, had to be committed to hospital the next. Has apparently never encountered psychiatric patients who suffer from violent outbursts either.

JACK_the_LAD · 18-08-2009 10:13pm

I would 'nt call him a scum-bag 'cos i dont know the guy.

He is/was a crazed lunatic. He is/was a murderer.

There does appear to be a certain inconsistency on these boards I believe.

the MODS either close or clean up threads on this stabbing, but there have been other stabbings without such hightened (MOD) sensitivity. Speculate and name call all you wish in relation to these. Why is this?

My belief is, it is simply down to bias. Had this stabbing occured in Finglas, Clondalkin, or Crumlin, comitted by working-class men, then it would be open season.

But this occured in a middle-class area, comitted by a middle-class Trinity undergraduate, so we must be quiet.

This could well be attributable to threats of litigation from these same middle-classes, cos as we know after the Blacrock bootboys/Annabels & Waterloo Road "incidents" these middle-class parents do not like their precious little darlings being discussed.
Especially when some poor soul inconveniently ends up DEAD!

Because as we all know middle-class kids don't MURDER people in this little country. They just get involved in "incidents".:rolleyes:

Hagar · 18-08-2009 10:14pm

Bob_Harris wrote: »

Oh, my post totally disappeared. Did it even get posted at all?

Should I post it again?

I wouldn't bother.

Unknown Soldier wrote:

When I made my next post the last one had no edits.

Not true. 2 min difference by your own admission. Nevertheless I assumed you hadn't seen it and took no other action.

nlgbbbblth · 18-08-2009 10:15pm

My name is URL wrote: »

You gave examples of something that doesn't matter in this case

A guy, regardless of class, decided for whatever reason to stick a knife into somebody and they died

At that point he became a murderer. That's all that matters really

lost expectation made a general point about the middle class being sheltered and the lower classes being shafted by the media.

I gave the example of two similar cases as a contrast.

The subsequent example re May Day vs drugs was to illustrate why I think the "middle class get an easy time from the cops" is a fallacy.

Rabies · 18-08-2009 10:15pm

Bob_Harris wrote: »

Oh, my post totally disappeared. Did it even get posted at all?

Should I post it again?

No

lostexpectation · 18-08-2009 10:16pm

nlgbbbblth wrote: »

That's a perception bandied about by middle class self-loathers. You may be one of them.

Compare two cases

- Anabels: Four posh boys with no previous convictions kill one of their contemporaries. Get quite lenient sentences. Media uproar all through the trial. Constant focus on their upbringing/backgrounds with the emphasis that they should have known better etc.

- New Ross: Eight working class dudes from tough estates and a prior reputation for being pricks kill a Swedish flower seller. I know this because I grew up there. Get even lighter sentences. No media uproar bar cursory reporting of the case. No focus whatsoever on their backgrounds.
.

i really don't know how the contradicts what i said

theres definitely a bias towards protecting the middle class and be dammed with the lower class in all forms of media

I don't think the annabel 4 were demonised and or more importantly dehumanised as others attackers have been...

new ross case was simply ignored by the media, it wasn't protected, never heard about it myself. not a big crime fetishist, didn't indulging in reading any annabel 4 stuff either apart from what i couldn't ignore.

nlgbbbblth wrote: »

A jealous and spurned guy with revenge on his mind is not going to be interested in stabbing someone other than his intended target.

eh he stabbed the guys brother too afaik... was he his intended target? ( was the girl) who knows. stabbing and murder is messy...

yes 'a domestic' is different, and this is a type of domestic your much less likely to come across a domestic attack unless your personally involved, infact your highly unlikely too...so...

Bob_Harris · 18-08-2009 10:17pm

Hagar wrote: »

I wouldn't bother.

It was a pretty funny post though. Although this is a "serious" thread, but then again it is "AH", oh the conflict.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 18-08-2009 10:19pm

Tragic or not, it's horrible. Shouldn't be treaten any differant than anybody else.

Should people get less time in jail, or should pity/mercy be shown because they are from "good families"?

Equality? LOL...

nlgbbbblth · 18-08-2009 10:23pm

lostexpectation wrote: »

new ross case was simply ignored by the media, never heard about it myself. not a big crime fetishist, didn't indulging in reading any annabel 4 stuff either apart from what i couldn't ignore.

Wasn't ignored by the media but it was glossed over.

lostexpectation wrote: »

eh he stabbed the guys brother too afaik... was he his intended target? ( was the girl) who knows. stabbing and murder is messy...

I imagine that the brother was stabbed because he went to his sibling's assistance.

Stark · 18-08-2009 10:24pm

Tegan Delightful Peak wrote:

Tragic or not, it's horrible. Shouldn't be treaten any differant than anybody else.

Should people get less time in jail, or should pity/mercy be shown because they are from "good families"?

Equality? LOL...

The guy would only smell out the cells if they put him in jail at this point.

People get off lightly across the board in Ireland. Our justice system is soft on criminals, no matter their background. The only thing you can be sure to be banged up for is forgetting to pay the TV license it seems.

JACK_the_LAD · 18-08-2009 10:25pm

Stark wrote: »

Confab in his infinite experience has never heard of sudden onset illness it would seem. I know people with relatives who were seemingly fine one day, had to be committed to hospital the next. Has apparently never encountered psychiatric patients who suffer from violent outbursts either.

i agree this kid clearly was a nutter.
and a murdering nutter to boot.

Oh! and the kid he stabbed is still dead.

zuroph · 18-08-2009 10:26pm

lostexpectation wrote: »

what does he think poorer people fight over

drugs, horses, and cousins. and fights about drugs, horses, and cousins.

JACK_the_LAD · 18-08-2009 10:31pm

i think that which is angering people is the perception that the middle-classes in this grubby little bannana republic of ours seem to get away with murder.

not too far from Bray lies the sleepy little middle-class enclave of Greystones, home to a one Seanie Fitz.

" now talking about getting away with ..................":eek:

foxinsox · 18-08-2009 10:32pm

Class has nothing to do with this..

Two young men are dead...

Two other young people are seriously injured..

Nobody other than the people who were in that house on that night know what happened.. The full facts may never become public knowledge.

I'm sure the relatives and friends of both families are absolutley devasted. There are no rules as to how to deal with such a situation, it is a tragedy.

To come out saying scumbag, mentally ill about this young man is totally uncalled for as none of us has any idea what happened that night. I feel that it will be unimaginable for any of the members of either family to deal with these losses.

It is a tragic sad thing to happen regardless of where they are from, what college they were attending and how they were brought up. It could have happened in any class and would still be just as tragic.

My thoughts would be with the poor families of both young men who must be going through such conflicting emotions at the moment.

The Irish Times - Mon 17 August has accurate facts as far as I know.

Bray incident 'Not a knifecrime' because they came from good families

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